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post #81 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post
 

 

Except the majority of Android phones sold have small screens and are cheap, this can easily be seen by the pitiful amounts of money Android vendors make and the absence of high end large screened phones using the web.

 

The vast majority of Android users don't have 5" phones.

 

No that's not true.  Profitability has nothing to do with what type of phones are being sold.  Device margins, on the other hand, could provide that insight.  I don't know where you saw what size of screens are using the web.

 

DED recently wrote an article that said that the S4 and Note combined to sell 2/3 of the amount of iPhones Apple sold.  All the other brands' flagship phones are 4.7" and above, and the midrange phones are generally 4.5" and above.  It's not reasonable to say that HTC, LG, Motorola, Sony, Samsung (in midrange sales), and all the other smaller brands are not more than making up that remaining third of iPhone sales in large-screened devices.  There are FAR more devices sold with screen sizes close to 5" than close to 4".

post #82 of 159
Even I hate Android, I bought Android TV Box, which is selling at 10 of millions in Asia, especially China, these boxes probably are registered as Tablet. These boxes allow people to watch network TV (which has millions of Western and Asian movie which are licensed to play only in China) which otherwise is not accessible outside of China
post #83 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post


DED recently wrote an article that said that the S4 and Note combined to sell 2/3 of the amount of iPhones Apple sold.  All the other brands' flagship phones are 4.7" and above, and the midrange phones are generally 4.5" and above.  It's not reasonable to say that HTC, LG, Motorola, Sony, Samsung (in midrange sales), and all the other smaller brands are not more than making up that remaining third of iPhone sales in large-screened devices.  There are FAR more devices sold with screen sizes close to 5" than close to 4".

But what about the low-end phones? Aren't there a lot of them?

There were 230 million Android phones sold last quarter... are we to believe they were mostly mid to high-end phones?

Look how big the "Others" category is. How many of those are large flagships?

Where are those companies' press releases announcing record sales of their flagships?

post #84 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bwana_Dik View Post

Where are all these Android tablets? The only place I ever see them is in stores like Best Buy. I was in a board meeting last week with 12 other directors around the table. There were 11 iPads and 2 Mac Airs. No other tablets and no PCs at all.

I really never see Android tablets around the university where I teach.


Like most of the other commentators here you don't get it.  You were in a room with individuals who all probably have 6 figure incomes and you think your sample is relevant?  Were any of those individuals wearing overalls or T shirts?  I would suspect not.  Would you conclude then,  that no one wears overalls or T shirts?

 

My suspicion is that the figures reflect the very large number of people who don't have 6 figure incomes or share portfolios stuffed with Apple shares and blue chips.  I know of multiple people who own Android tablets.  Most of them are children and one is a College student who hardly has two spare cents to rub together.  There's your mysterious market - the young and less well off.

 

I think most of the market might well be children.  I don't think I know any children who have iPads.  I know of adults who do.  You don't see these tablets because they are sitting on the end of some kids bed somewhere.  My daughters primary school has iPads, the kids who have a tablet at all have an Android based one.  The school has deeper pockets.

 

Just before Christmas, I saw very active discussions on another forum where people were asking where they could get a cheap tablet for Christmas.  A chain store in the UK and Ireland called Tesco was selling huge numbers of tablets running Android as they were about a third the price of the cheapest Pad, and by all accounts, were still pretty good.  I would bet they would have been selling their £119 Android tablets vs £319 iPads at at least 50:1 or more.


Edited by cnocbui - 3/4/14 at 1:26am
post #85 of 159
I do see some of the 'others' in the wild, but its a tiny proportion. As an iPad developer I tend to notice iPads more than other tablets, but I see a fair number of Samsung tablets around, I'd guess about 5% of the iPad's volume.

I'm middle class, so my friends tend to be middle class. Some looking for tablets for kids look for a cheaper option, so veer towards Samsung until I correct them :-) Others have been attracted by kid specific droid tablets, targeted with controlled kids content. I would say I've seen very little of this, but most of my friends who I see often don't have kids.

It might be that outside US/UK which is the market I'm familiar with there are more 'others' being sold.

I would question whether 'others' should be in the same table as they are clearly not taking market share from the premium products, they are 'another market'

This is something easily forgotten. I think when we look at this kind of product class, they span such a wide set of potential users that they can incorporate markets that really don't overlap.

As a developer I realised this when I found that people who want 'free' apps are really not in the market to buy apps or content at all, its pointless trying to upsell them. While this is an oversimplification I see its useful as a vendor because there is really no reality in trying to take market share from Nissan if you are McClaren, they are both 'market segments' but are effectively disjoint, so as far as market intelligence goes, lumping them together is irrelevant.
post #86 of 159
I checked with Karl Rove and this is still not over!
post #87 of 159
I checked with Elizabeth Kubler-Ross and we are still deeply in the denial phase.
post #88 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpdave View Post

I must say being an Apple fan boy for such a long time I got tired of waiting for a phone that did not require bifocals.. so I bought a Note III and found it superior in every way except for build Quality... and it's still not to shabby. I'm looking at the sammy 12 inch tab, I like the idea of multi tasking.. Apple better start moving faster or it's only going to get worse for them

Yeah, you're full of it. You could have modified the astroturfer guide-template just a tad. Would have been  a bit more believable. Let's see:

1. "I'm the biggest Apple fan"- check. 
2. "I gotta say I love Samsung Product X"- check. 
3. "Better than iOS Product X in every way" -check.
4. Insert mild compliment to Apple to make post more believable- check. 
5. "My next product will be Samsung product X"- check. 
6. Mention multi-tasking. -check. 
7. "Apple better get their shit together or its game-over"-check.

Got em all in a couple lines. Pathetic. How much did you get paid for that post? Why is it that even paid celebrities who are given insane amounts of money to use Samsung devices refuse to do so? And yeah, Apple is smashing sales and profit records every year, I hope it keeps going "worse for them" as you say. They're in such a dreadful situation with that $1,700,000,000 in the bank. 

I think my sig says it all on this poster.
"Fibonacci: As easy as 1, 1, 2, 3..."
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post #89 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooltalk View Post
 

 

Yes, we call this "confirmation bias."

 

Really? Is it REALLY confirmation bias? Because I'm into technology, I specifically pay attention to what I see people using around me, everyday. When I see an Android/Microsoft tablet, they actually stand out MORE in my point, because I see them so uncommonly. Today, I was in a University campus, 2 coffee shops, a bank, a bus, in a mall, and 2 people's houses. In that time, I must have noticed 100 people using iPads. I was SPECIFICALLY looking for something different- and not once did I see it. So no, It can't always be confirmation bias. I think the vast majority of people can admit to seeing way more iPads in the wild that anything else. I'm sure these Android tablets are going SOMEWHERE (in a hole, maybe), but for some reason, it's not somewhere that your average citizen actually frequents. There's nothing anecdotal about it. 

 

Does it really matter if one billion Android tablets are sold tomorrow, if barely anyone uses them for anything meaningful? In terms of web usage stats, ads, e-commerce, app-downloads, ecosystem usage, etc- everything is still steeply in the iPad camp. That is pretty meaningful. 

I live in Portugal and Apple products are not the norm at all (just like in the large majorities of countries). Most people do not know what iOS or OS X are. Are they stupid? Well, more than me surely, but that's not their fault. Apple has 0 presence here, not even a store.

 

I see Android tablets everyday (few Nexus), even some surface RT on campus (it was a promotion for us, with huge discounts) and more Galaxys with big screens than iPhones. If you compare Android with iOS it's something like 50 to 1.

 

For starters, I'm tired to explain to some people that there's much more to a quality of a camera than MP, more to screen quality than resolution and more to UI speed than number of cores. That's Apple's job, and they don't give a ****.

 

As far as I'm concerned, these numbers are fabulous for Apple, that is a shame. They do not need so much money (they even are throwing it away to shareholders) and they still don't give a **** for countries outside the US, UK, nordic countries and china.

 

We can try to bend the truth as we please, but there's no way to justify lack of official stores in european countries, and the support and brand recognition that comes with it. Just like you can't justify not having a bigger screen option.

post #90 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post

 

No that's not true.  Profitability has nothing to do with what type of phones are being sold.  Device margins, on the other hand, could provide that insight.  I don't know where you saw what size of screens are using the web.

 

DED recently wrote an article that said that the S4 and Note combined to sell 2/3 of the amount of iPhones Apple sold.  All the other brands' flagship phones are 4.7" and above, and the midrange phones are generally 4.5" and above.  It's not reasonable to say that HTC, LG, Motorola, Sony, Samsung (in midrange sales), and all the other smaller brands are not more than making up that remaining third of iPhone sales in large-screened devices.  There are FAR more devices sold with screen sizes close to 5" than close to 4".

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post
 
But what about the low-end phones? Aren't there a lot of them?

There were 230 million Android phones sold last quarter... are we to believe they were mostly mid to high-end phones?

Look how big the "Others" category is. How many of those are large flagships?

Where are those companies' press releases announcing record sales of their flagships?

The only irrefutable fact is that there are far more 4.5+" devices being sold than iPhones, and most of them are flagships.

That's all we need to know to understand how stupid Apple is about the subject.

 

And before "they" arrive, yes we now more than Apple about this. Companies **** things up sometimes, it wouldn't be a first for Apple, for example.

post #91 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post
 

It would be interesting to see how their figures change if Samsung switches to Tizen.  Will that white box Android figure mysteriously drop, giving Tizen the lead?


Probably not much.  Unlike Fandroids that think (contrary to reality) that they know what consumers are looking for, if Samsung were to change to Tizen on the next product launch, most users really won't care if its Android or not.  What they will wonder is why their Android apps aren't available.  Ask them "It's not running Android anymore." and they will just look at you thinking you were speaking Greek.

post #92 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post
 

I live in Portugal and Apple products are not the norm at all (just like in the large majorities of countries). Most people do not know what iOS or OS X are. Are they stupid? Well, more than me surely, but that's not their fault. Apple has 0 presence here, not even a store.

 

I see Android tablets everyday (few Nexus), even some surface RT on campus (it was a promotion for us, with huge discounts) and more Galaxys with big screens than iPhones. If you compare Android with iOS it's something like 50 to 1.

 

For starters, I'm tired to explain to some people that there's much more to a quality of a camera than MP, more to screen quality than resolution and more to UI speed than number of cores. That's Apple's job, and they don't give a ****.

 

As far as I'm concerned, these numbers are fabulous for Apple, that is a shame. They do not need so much money (they even are throwing it away to shareholders) and they still don't give a **** for countries outside the US, UK, nordic countries and china.

 

We can try to bend the truth as we please, but there's no way to justify lack of official stores in european countries, and the support and brand recognition that comes with it. Just like you can't justify not having a bigger screen option.

 

Amazing isn't it.  Apple have their European headquarters in Ireland, even used to manufacture some stuff here, and yet, there still isn't a single Apple store in the country.

 

Yes, i would say 50:1

post #93 of 159
Next, apple will invent the first ever 4.5" screen...
post #94 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

Amazing isn't it.  Apple have their European headquarters in Ireland, even used to manufacture some stuff here, and yet, there still isn't a single Apple store in the country.
Its a tax dodge. Apple and many other multinationals cash in on it.
post #95 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

But what about the low-end phones? Aren't there a lot of them?

There were 230 million Android phones sold last quarter... are we to believe they were mostly mid to high-end phones?

Look how big the "Others" category is. How many of those are large flagships?

Where are those companies' press releases announcing record sales of their flagships?


Yeah there are a lot of low end phones sold. Let's say half of all Android phones sold are low end. That still means that there are twice as many mid to high end Android phones sold as iPhones, and that would mean there would be twice as many large-screened Android phones as iPhones.

I doubt anyone shopping for a low end phone is also in the market for a tablet, so let's assume the market of tablet buyers consists of iPhone users and mid to high end Android users. Based on the earlier assumptions, Android users make up 2/3 of those tablet buyers, and all of those Android users are likely using large screened phones, which means they are less likely to carry a tablet around.
post #96 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJim View Post

Next, apple will invent the first ever 4.5" screen...

lol

 

like it or not, they will probably make the best 4.5" screen ever, with software designed especially for that screen size and it will blow away the competition on user experience. Unfortunately for you, that's what Apple is about. We know it, we like it.

post #97 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJim View Post


Its a tax dodge. Apple and many other multinationals cash in on it.


Lol - I am well aware of Apple's reasons for basing their EU HQ here.

post #98 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJim View Post


Its a tax dodge. Apple and many other multinationals cash in on it.


Lol - I am well aware of Apple's reasons for basing their EU HQ here.

Apple and everybody else with at least a "decent" amount of finance acumen. It makes all the sense in the world, especially if they use the "saved" cash for stuff related with renewable energy, the company itself, etc.

post #99 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by rf9 View Post
 

I'd personally be fine getting an Android tablet that's 1/3 the price if I could get the same apps.

 

Which apps that you use are exclusive to the ipad ?

post #100 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post
 
  There are FAR more devices sold with screen sizes close to 5" than close to 4".

All I ever see is 3.5 inch screens on the bus.  I never see anything except iPhones.  And that is not anecdotal - it is real.

post #101 of 159
I wonder what the market share results would look like if the $$ spent on units were reported rather than the number of units sold. The name of the game for a publicly held corporation is PROFITS.
post #102 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post

yeah it was all the $50 table with some old version of Android being sold at places like PepBoys and other places to help pull in consumers to buy cheap stuff.

Don't forget Kohls et al. Some of those versions are so old it's ridiculous. But I guess if you are including tablets that your 3 year old can play with then you get those numbers. These analyst have they particular bias no matter what we say. Hey for years in the PC space MS dominated for the same reasons. Software was on multiple OEMs. And I fell for that. Now I have an iMac I hardly look at my PC. There has to be an option for those who don't want to pay to get the best. I'm not saying Android or all other smartphones suck. But it's not iOS and they are not Apple IMO. I'll stick with the best no matter analyst chatter.
post #103 of 159
I see Androids in the wild. I see people actually using them too.
post #104 of 159
I'm also sticking with the best. Samsung android phone with much larger screen. Apple will get there. Several years late. Or maybe ship iPhone with a magnifying glass.

PS Google is no Microsoft. Android is no Windows.
post #105 of 159
Originally Posted by BigJim View Post
I'm also sticking with the best. Samsung android phone with much larger screen.

 

What do these two sentences have to do with each other? I’m confused.

 
PS Google is no Microsoft. Android is no Windows.

 

Yeah, they sure didn’t both steal from Apple and create a copyist product or anything¡

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #106 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by BestKeptSecret View Post
 

 

You're still trying to reason with Patpatpat? I gave up a long time ago.

Nothing to reason with, I never made any argument or agreement with the article. I just mentioned I was going to sit back and watch the fanbois battle it out. Suckers.

post #107 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

I live in Portugal and Apple products are not the norm at all (just like in the large majorities of countries). Most people do not know what iOS or OS X are. Are they stupid? Well, more than me surely, but that's not their fault. Apple has 0 presence here, not even a store.

I see Android tablets everyday (few Nexus), even some surface RT on campus (it was a promotion for us, with huge discounts) and more Galaxys with big screens than iPhones. If you compare Android with iOS it's something like 50 to 1.

For starters, I'm tired to explain to some people that there's much more to a quality of a camera than MP, more to screen quality than resolution and more to UI speed than number of cores. That's Apple's job, and they don't give a ****.

As far as I'm concerned, these numbers are fabulous for Apple, that is a shame. They do not need so much money (they even are throwing it away to shareholders) and they still don't give a **** for countries outside the US, UK, nordic countries and china.

We can try to bend the truth as we please, but there's no way to justify lack of official stores in european countries, and the support and brand recognition that comes with it. Just like you can't justify not having a bigger screen option.

Local laws, govt officials, bureaucracy, taxes, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post


The only irrefutable fact is that there are far more 4.5+" devices being sold than iPhones, and most of them are flagships.
That's all we need to know to understand how stupid Apple is about the subject.

And before "they" arrive, yes we now more than Apple about this. Companies **** things up sometimes, it wouldn't be a first for Apple, for example.
"irrefutable fact" should have real stats.
post #108 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter236 View Post

Android tablets market share is surging, especially Samsung's market share is remarkable. Apple needs to come up with innovation soon.

Then why have Samsungs shares fallen in the last year? I bought a Samsung Tablet for myself last year and a cheap android tablet for my daughter. The cheap android is stuck on ICS and never comes out of its box. The Samsung tablet is the only tablet I have ever purchased that has a crack in the case. I use it mainly for watching catch up tv as the keyboard is not responsive enough to do anything else on. These are counted in the huge increase I android tablets, but I will probably never get an Android tablet again.
Edited by Crosslad - 3/4/14 at 9:54am
post #109 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

lol

like it or not, they will probably make the best 4.5" screen ever, with software designed especially for that screen size and it will blow away the competition on user experience. Unfortunately for you, that's what Apple is about. We know it, we like it.
You like waiting... How many years? And counting. Samsung Galaxy Note has been out two and a half years now. I'll send you a free magnifying glass in the mean time...
Edited by BigJim - 3/4/14 at 9:54am
post #110 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by SudoNym View Post
 

All I ever see is 3.5 inch screens on the bus.  I never see anything except iPhones.  And that is not anecdotal - it is real.

 

That is the definition of an anecdote.

post #111 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJim View Post
You like waiting... How many years? And counting. Samsung Galaxy Note has been out two and a half years now. I'll send you a free magnifying glass in the mean time...

I'm a patient man, and the most innovative company on earth deserves my patience. They were wrong with the one size fits all theory, but they will fix it, like they did on every category since forever (iMac, iPad, iPod, etc.).

Meanwhile you are right: The note is here, today, so why bother waiting? The galaxy note has lower build quality, worse battery life on tasks like 4g browsing, much slower UI with some strange lag and stutter, worse ecosystem with the apps that were also designed for my s3 mini (not optimized for the note at all) and the design of the device is pathetic. The S-pen is useless (from my own experience) for handwriting. The camera (both) is also inferior.

 

We are also talking about of a company that doesn't update most products (the european s3 won't get kitkat!), sucks at designing SoC (the pathetic exynos is one reason for the s3 not getting kitkat, while the qualcomm s3 mini will get it), manipulates the media, and is as close as a "mafia" corporation as you can get.

 

Also Android is lacking from productive/quality software, companies do not respect holo at all (facebook, twitter, messenger, whatsapp, etc) and we get second rate iOS versions.

 

Despite all that, I found a great deal for a brand new s3 mini, 6 months ago. And I'm waiting for Apple, no worries. So yeah, I consider myself an informed man about this subject. Having said that, I would like that magnifying glass, the s3 mini screen kills me. Thank god for my MBA.

 

p.s: I won't mention samsung software.

 

Is the note better than my s3 mini?
Hell yeah.

 

Is the note an well priced device?

Not at all. For what you get, It should be less expensive than the superior Moto X.

 

Is it better than the iPhone?

lol

post #112 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post
 

 

No that's not true.  Profitability has nothing to do with what type of phones are being sold.  Device margins, on the other hand, could provide that insight.  I don't know where you saw what size of screens are using the web.

 

DED recently wrote an article that said that the S4 and Note combined to sell 2/3 of the amount of iPhones Apple sold.  All the other brands' flagship phones are 4.7" and above, and the midrange phones are generally 4.5" and above.  It's not reasonable to say that HTC, LG, Motorola, Sony, Samsung (in midrange sales), and all the other smaller brands are not more than making up that remaining third of iPhone sales in large-screened devices.  There are FAR more devices sold with screen sizes close to 5" than close to 4".

 

You are just making shit up.

 

Like most things to do with Android everything is based on assumptions with no basis in reality.

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post #113 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post


Yeah there are a lot of low end phones sold. Let's say half of all Android phones sold are low end. That still means that there are twice as many mid to high end Android phones sold as iPhones, and that would mean there would be twice as many large-screened Android phones as iPhones.

I doubt anyone shopping for a low end phone is also in the market for a tablet, so let's assume the market of tablet buyers consists of iPhone users and mid to high end Android users. Based on the earlier assumptions, Android users make up 2/3 of those tablet buyers, and all of those Android users are likely using large screened phones, which means they are less likely to carry a tablet around.

 

Let's just make shit up to suit our arguments.

 

The Android dilemma.

 

The trouble for Apple is, people just lap that shit up.

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post #114 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by SudoNym View Post
 

Which apps that you use are exclusive to the ipad ?

 

Anything requiring 64bit.

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post #115 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter236 View Post

Android tablets market share is surging, especially Samsung's market share is remarkable. Apple needs to come up with innovation soon.

You
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post


The only irrefutable fact is that there are far more 4.5+" devices being sold than iPhones, and most of them are flagships.
That's all we need to know to understand how stupid Apple is about the subject.

And before "they" arrive, yes we now more than Apple about this. Companies **** things up sometimes, it wouldn't be a first for Apple, for example.

The only irrefutable fact about your statement is how stupid it is.
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post #116 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

Amazing isn't it.  Apple have their European headquarters in Ireland, even used to manufacture some stuff here, and yet, there still isn't a single Apple store in the country.

Yes, i would say 50:1

Not amazing at all. The rich, important countries have Apple stores, the poor, less important ones don't.
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post #117 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosslad View Post

Then why have Samsungs shares fallen in the last year? I bought a Samsung Tablet for myself last year and a cheap android tablet for my daughter. The cheap android is stuck on ICS and never comes out of its box. The Samsung tablet is the only tablet I have ever purchased that has a crack in the case. I use it mainly for watching catch up tv as the keyboard is not responsive enough to do anything else on. These are counted in the huge increase I android tablets, but I will probably never get an Android tablet again.

If you've truly learnt your lesson, then you will buy an iPad.
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post #118 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by SudoNym View Post
 

Which apps that you use are exclusive to the ipad ?

Admittedly not many anymore, and those are not usually that important.

post #119 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by GearFit View Post
 

I'm a very strong Apple fan but Samsung is just tempting me right now!

With what?

post #120 of 159

I would not just dismiss the Gartner figures as biased. I own a software company who develops smartphone and tablet apps for enterprises. 3 years ago a typical request from a potential customer was to develop first an iOS app and port it later to Android. In 2013 roughly all my customers asked simultaneously an iOS and Android versions of their app. Well in 2014 I have received the first customer request for an Android app only. This means that mindset in the market is gradually shifting.

If I look to the personal devices of my employees, I see 2 iPads, 4 Android tablets and 1 Surface

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