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Rumor: Google pressured Asus to cancel Android/Windows dual-boot devices - Page 2

post #41 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by CregB3 View Post

So, how is this not an anti-competitive move (i.e. Competition Law issue in almost all countries) on the part of Google? Seems to me that some Gov't agencies would take interest in this.

You did note the first word in the article title, right? And you also noted the source of the article, right?
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post #42 of 127

B-b-b-b-b-b-uuuut OPEN!

post #43 of 127
Yeah, I know, rumor and more than likely totally false coming from DigiTimes, but still should raise an eyebrow or 2...
post #44 of 127
A tad off-topic but too humorous not to mention. . .

There's already an Android smartwatch. It got it's reveal back in Novemeber as a matter of fact. So besides Android and smartwatch combined being funny to some what else is funny about it? It has zero connection to Google. The OS isn't Android either. 1bugeye.gif1biggrin.gif

http://www.android-usa.com/product-p/ad721bw.htm
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post #45 of 127
If you're part of the OHA you're not allowed to release a device running a forked version of Android. So that means Samsung can sell Android, Windows or Tizen phones.

Now it appears Google doesn't even want to share the same device with another OS.

It makes sense. Nothing will show a user how utterly $hitty Android is then to run it on the same device as Windows and let the user experience the glaring shortcomings first hand.

And people wonder why Apple says they won't merge iOS and Mac OS.
post #46 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Would it be the first time hackers got something to work that a company's developers said couldn't? This is from the BBC article.
To answer your question, could they? They probably could, but why would they?

I read the article and it wasn't clear if it was Apple employees or Apple enthusiasts that were the "Apple technical experts".

But I guess we are off topic 1smile.gif
post #47 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frood View Post

It's not really an analogy so much as a paradigm at how this article is 'non-news'  Obviously the goal is to get clicks by fomenting Google-haters 'Google is evil' mantra....

I don't view Apple as 'evil' for choosing not to include Windows or Android on their tablets or phones, because it would be shooting themselves in the foot.  And "Apple doesn't add Windows or Android to the iPad!" would make a really dumb headline.  An equally dumb headline would be "Google pressured Asus to cancel Android/Windows dual-boot devices"

Google works with partners.  It is a different model.  If one of those partners takes a step to shoot Google in the foot, I'd expect Google to tell them to stop.  That's not really being evil or newsworthy.  Cancelling business dealings with them wouldn't be out of order, certainly.  If they threatened to cover them in honey and throw them on a fire ant nest, that would be a 'break out the popcorn' headline and newsworthy.

Windows is and was the definition of evil, so Google is off the hook here.
They should get a standing ovation when true, because they did a Microsoft to Microsoft.
post #48 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivabign View Post


Google doesn't manufacture the tablet. I think the Apple analogy is off the mark.

Apple doesn't manufacture the ipads either.  Foxconn does.

post #49 of 127

Interesting how a negative Google story smokes out the Google fanbois!

post #50 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

I read the article and it wasn't clear if it was Apple employees or Apple enthusiasts that were the "Apple technical experts".

But I guess we are off topic 1smile.gif

The comments are pretty funny when AI ran the story.

http://appleinsider.com/article/?id=1597
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post #51 of 127

It's just the "do no evil" principle as conveniently applied by Google; nothing new here.

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post #52 of 127
And Apple gets accused of anti-trust behaviour? Google better be careful there. It bills Android as being open, yet it is forcing hardware manufacturers to do its bidding to the expense of competitors.
post #53 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


I'm more surprised it wasn't Microsoft complaining. But I guess the fact that they'd let Nokia sell an Android phone and are thinking about allowing Android apps to be ported to Windows Phone just shows how desperate they are.

Microsoft might be desperate, but a large percentage of Nokia phones are too underpowered to run Windows. It is likely considering running Android for the very low end of the market so it can quit developing its own OS for the low end of the market. It can also take the approach of Amazon, which uses the Android kernel, but strips out everything Google. Google hates that.

post #54 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


The comments are pretty funny when AI ran the story.

http://appleinsider.com/article/?id=1597

That's a blast from the past! The only names I recognize in that thread are the mods (and pre-mods) and Ireland!

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post #55 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dickprinter View Post

That's a blast from the past! The only names I recognize in that thread are the mods (and pre-mods) and Ireland!

There's a few more that I recognized that don't post very often, but lkrupp is there as well and he/she posts regularly.
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post #56 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

Microsoft might be desperate, but a large percentage of Nokia phones are too underpowered to run Windows. It is likely considering running Android for the very low end of the market so it can quit developing its own OS for the low end of the market. It can also take the approach of Amazon, which uses the Android kernel, but strips out everything Google. Google hates that.

Just a technicality, but using vanilla Android, which is open source under the Apache License... you don't have to strip anything from "Google" out... because as you said, you're using the Android "kernel" to begin with.

If I'm not mistaken, Google is under no obligation to open source their services or internal APIs or SDKs... only changes and modifications that they make to the kernel itself.

Other AI members will surely have a better explanation.

Google stepping on Asus... or Microsoft? Google can do a bloody-blue-shoe-2-step on both their graves for all I care. 1tongue.gif
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post #57 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
 

By "demanded" they mean threatened not to contract upcoming Nexus devices to Asus.

 

Android handset alliance = Iron Fist.

 

Google up to their usual fun and games.

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post #58 of 127
Since when is Google Chrome OS afraid of Windows? I thought it was the other way around.
However, from ASUS point of view it makes very little sense to put an Intel CPU in the box and not allow it to run windows.
Edited by snova - 3/7/14 at 12:32pm
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post #59 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by genovelle View Post

Actually long before Android existed apple resale shops offered a daughter card that Apple supplied drivers for that ran windows. I remember being shown this expensive feature.

I bought a Mac 6100 directly from Apple with that (Apple-manufactured) card already installed.
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post #60 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frood View Post
 

 

It's not really an analogy so much as a paradigm at how this article is 'non-news'  Obviously the goal is to get clicks by fomenting Google-haters 'Google is evil' mantra....

 

I don't view Apple as 'evil' for choosing not to include Windows or Android on their tablets or phones, because it would be shooting themselves in the foot.  And "Apple doesn't add Windows or Android to the iPad!" would make a really dumb headline.  An equally dumb headline would be "Google pressured Asus to cancel Android/Windows dual-boot devices"

 

Google works with partners.  It is a different model.  If one of those partners takes a step to shoot Google in the foot, I'd expect Google to tell them to stop.  That's not really being evil or newsworthy.  Cancelling business dealings with them wouldn't be out of order, certainly.  If they threatened to cover them in honey and throw them on a fire ant nest, that would be a 'break out the popcorn' headline and newsworthy.

 

If only they didn't keep blathering on about how open Android is.

 

See that's the difference, it's called hypocrisy and Google has it in spades.

 

As usual people leap to Google's defence.

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post #61 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


You're assuming Digitimes is spot on then.

 

Even a stopped clock is right two times a day.

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post #62 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by genovelle View Post

Actually long before Android existed apple resale shops offered a daughter card that Apple supplied drivers for that ran windows. I remember being shown this expensive feature.

I bought a Mac 6100 directly from Apple with that (Apple-manufactured) card already installed.
No wonder Apple almost went bankrupt. Good for them Steve came back and smacked people up side the head and focus on innovating to Apple's exclusive benefit instead of following the breadcrumbs left behind someone else's wake.
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post #63 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

I bought a Mac 6100 directly from Apple with that (Apple-manufactured) card already installed.
So I'm not crazy! Thanks. I Great, now can cancel that appointment with the psychiatrist.lol
post #64 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


You can change the default search provider on Android phones to Bing if you'd like. There have even been Samsung phones with Bing set as the factory default. In fact I'm pretty sure you can replace nearly all Google services with your own preferred provider if you choose to. Google doesn't prevent it anymore than Apple does AFAIK.

EDIT: Thanks for that BeOS mention. Hadn't been aware of it. 1smile.gif Not exactly the same thing as far as I can tell since Microsoft was being accused of not allowing competing OS's to be installed on any device if that manufacturer had a discount agreement with MS. ASUS obviously ships Windows-based devices too so if Google is trying to prevent it they're not very effective.

Huh?  The story is that Google is pressuring Asus - one of their OEM's - from creating dual boot devices.  I believe it was Fujitsu that was planning on selling dual boot BeOS and Windows PC's - and MS pressured them into not doing so, using there dominate market position, which ultimately led to the demise of BeOS (or so was the claim).  It was evidence in their anti-trust case.

 

Google has a dominate market position.  They are now using that to pressure at least one OEM (if the story is even true) into not allowing a competitors OS on the same device.  Same situation, same rules should apply. 

post #65 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post
 

I imagine he's referring to when Be sued Microsoft.  That action got settled out of court.

 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/02/20/be_inc_sues_microsoft/

 

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Microsoft+Pays+$23m+to+Settle+BeOS+Antitrust+Suit.-a0107384535


Yes, the Be, Inc. suit was settled out of court.  But, if memory serves the incident was used in Microsoft's anti-trust trial as evidence.

post #66 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleTechSpot View Post

Sure Google is working to its own self interest. Just shows that Steve Jobs was right though when he said that Google was being a bit disingenuous for attacking iOS as being "closed" and championing Android as "open". Google is full of a bunch of meaningless rhetoric or it wouldn't be afraid of letting Chrome compete with Windows on these dual boot devices (that is clearly the alternative that Google would prefer). I guess when it is protecting its turf against competition it's not stifling innovation.

Google is trying to leverage Android into making Chrome a player on the desktop much to its frustration as much as it is trying to block Windows on mobile.


Good point about "stifling innovation."  Google isn't interested in crediting or allowing innovation unless it benefits Google.

post #67 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by gumbi View Post


Google has a dominate market position.  They are now using that to pressure at least one OEM (if the story is even true) into not allowing a competitors OS on the same device.  Same situation, same rules should apply. 
While one could agree that Google has a dominate market position, that position is not in the Intel based laptop market. This story makes no sense, unless ASUS is willing to bleed money on this line of laptop from unsold inventory. They would be better off pulling it completely, because it simply is uncompetitive with other laptops which are almost as expensive but are pre-integrated to run Windows.

If I was in product marketing in this market, which I am not, it would seem to me the first question that needs answering is.

#1 Who is going to be our customer for this product?

Choices are:

A. People who don't need or want Windows but still want a slim laptop.
B. People who need to run Windows apps and want a slim laptop
C. We have no idea, throw a net and hope for both.

You then pick components which meet your requirements. For example, for Windows app you are gonna need Intel HW. This is more expensive than ARM HW, but you must pick it if you want to run Windows apps well. So you can see right away, you are not gonna compete purely on price against ARM based laptops. Right? People who would buy your more expensive product, NEED to run Windows Apps and are willing to pay for it. Other than Linux fans, who will just scrub both Windows and ChromeOS from an Intel based laptop, just who does ASUS think they are going to sell a more expensive slim Intel based ChromeOS laptop to when their competitors are offering cheaper ARM based ChromeOS laptops or similarly priced slip laptop which already can pre-integrated with Windows?

Someone please explain this to me, because it makes zero sense to me and as a result this story smells like horse shit. If it is a laptop, has intel HW inside and is not pre-integrated with Windows, I think you are best to pull the plug on it as it will be DOA. (unless you are Apple, of course). It most likely that anyone who is looking to buy a ChromeOS slim laptop and isn't interested be scrubing ChromeOS as soon as they buy it, does NOT need the added expensive of Intel HW. As far as I can tell, ChromeOS runs just fine on cheaper ARM HW and has better battery life as a bonus.
Edited by snova - 3/7/14 at 1:36pm
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post #68 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post


While one could agree that Google has a dominate market position, that position not in the Intel based laptop market. This story makes no sense, unless ASUS is willing to bleed money on this line of laptop from unsold inventory. They would be better off pulling it completely, because it simply is uncompetitive with other laptops which are almost as expensive but are pre-integrated to run Windows.

If I was in product marketing in this market, which I am not, it would seem to me the first question that needs answering is.

#1 Who is going to be our customer for this product?

Choices are:

A. People who don't need or want Windows but still want a slim laptop.
B. People who need to run Windows apps and want a slim laptop
C. We have no idea, throw a net and hope for both.

You then pick components which meet your requirements. For example, for Windows app you are gonna need Intel HW. This is more expensive than ARM HW, but you must pick it if you want to run Windows apps well. So you can see right away, you are not gonna compete purely on price against ARM based laptops. Right? People who would buy your more expensive product, NEED to run Windows Apps and are willing to pay for it. Other than Linux fans, who will just scrub both Windows and ChromeOS from an Intel based laptop, just who does ASUS think they are going to sell a more expensive slim Intel based ChromeOS laptop to when their competitors are offering cheaper ARM based ChromeOS laptops or similarly priced slip laptop which already can pre-integrated with Windows?

Someone please explain this to me, because it makes zero sense to me and as a result this story smells like horse shit. If it is a laptop, has intel HW inside and is not pre-integrated with Windows, I think you are best to pull the plug on it as it will be DOA. (unless you are Apple, of course). Anyone is looking to buy a ChromeOS slim laptop and won't be scrubing ChromeOS as soon as they buy it, does NOT the added expensive of Intel HW.


This is not a laptop - it's a tablet.  Or more correctly, a Transformer Tablet - it has a keyboard dock.  This is actually a fairly successful line of tablets for ASUS, that normally run Android - though they have a couple of Windows 8 versions already.  This is a new Intel based entry to the line that will dual boot Android and Windows.  Google has a dominate position in mobile devices - they are using this position to stifle a competitor. 

post #69 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by gumbi View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post


While one could agree that Google has a dominate market position, that position not in the Intel based laptop market. This story makes no sense, unless ASUS is willing to bleed money on this line of laptop from unsold inventory. They would be better off pulling it completely, because it simply is uncompetitive with other laptops which are almost as expensive but are pre-integrated to run Windows.

If I was in product marketing in this market, which I am not, it would seem to me the first question that needs answering is.

#1 Who is going to be our customer for this product?

Choices are:

A. People who don't need or want Windows but still want a slim laptop.
B. People who need to run Windows apps and want a slim laptop
C. We have no idea, throw a net and hope for both.

You then pick components which meet your requirements. For example, for Windows app you are gonna need Intel HW. This is more expensive than ARM HW, but you must pick it if you want to run Windows apps well. So you can see right away, you are not gonna compete purely on price against ARM based laptops. Right? People who would buy your more expensive product, NEED to run Windows Apps and are willing to pay for it. Other than Linux fans, who will just scrub both Windows and ChromeOS from an Intel based laptop, just who does ASUS think they are going to sell a more expensive slim Intel based ChromeOS laptop to when their competitors are offering cheaper ARM based ChromeOS laptops or similarly priced slip laptop which already can pre-integrated with Windows?

Someone please explain this to me, because it makes zero sense to me and as a result this story smells like horse shit. If it is a laptop, has intel HW inside and is not pre-integrated with Windows, I think you are best to pull the plug on it as it will be DOA. (unless you are Apple, of course). Anyone is looking to buy a ChromeOS slim laptop and won't be scrubing ChromeOS as soon as they buy it, does NOT the added expensive of Intel HW.


This is not a laptop - it's a tablet.  Or more correctly, a Transformer Tablet - it has a keyboard dock.  This is actually a fairly successful line of tablets for ASUS, that normally run Android - though they have a couple of Windows 8 versions already.  This is a new Intel based entry to the line that will dual boot Android and Windows.  Google has a dominate position in mobile devices - they are using this position to stifle a competitor. 

ah... tablet with keyboard running Android , not ChromeOS.  got it.   my bad.  Why not, it worked so well for Windows 8.  So I stand corrected. does it make a difference from choosing more expensive Intel HW vs ARM to run ChromeOS or Android?  


Edited by snova - 3/7/14 at 1:49pm
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post #70 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by gumbi View Post


  Google has a dominate position in mobile devices - they are using this position to stifle a competitor. 

Based on what? A rumor? From Digitimes??

The same folks who claimed yesterday that there's millions of iPhone 5C's sitting in Pegatron warehouses that nobody wants with another million collecting dust in resellers' stockrooms. That Digitimes?

There might really be some bit of truth in there somewhere, or maybe none at all, but claiming guilt based on only a Digitimes rumor seems a bit hasty to most folks here going by past comments. Maybe Asus will have something to say soon.
Edited by Gatorguy - 3/7/14 at 1:54pm
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post #71 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


Based on what? A rumor? From Digitimes??

The same folks who claimed yesterday that there's millions of iPhone 5C's sitting in Pegatron warehouses that nobody wants with another million collecting dust in resellers' stockroom

 

Obviously the iPhone story is all lies (and was probably a story that Samsung Shamescum paid them to run), but this one is certainly true.  ;) 

post #72 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by DroidFTW View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


Based on what? A rumor? From Digitimes??

The same folks who claimed yesterday that there's millions of iPhone 5C's sitting in Pegatron warehouses that nobody wants with another million collecting dust in resellers' stockroom

 

Obviously the iPhone story is all lies (and was probably a story that Samsung Shamescum paid them to run), but this one is certainly true.  ;) 

DroidFTW and Gatorguy,

 

I gonna go out on a limb here and assume you have no issues buying Android tablets.  Would you buy this Intel based Android product w/ keyboard vs the other ARM based Android tablets offering which don't come with keyboard?  If you did, would your motivation be based on the fact it has Intel HW inside and/or includes a keyboard?  My assumption is it will be priced higher than ARM based tablets which don't come with keyboards.

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post #73 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post
 

DroidFTW and Gatorguy,

 

I gonna go out on a limb here and assume you have no issues buying Android tablets.  Would you buy this Intel based Android product w/ keyboard vs the other ARM based Android tablets offering which don't come with keyboard?  If you did, would your motivation be based on the fact it has Intel HW inside and/or includes a keyboard?  My assumption is it will be priced higher than ARM based tablets which don't come with keyboards.

 

I like to consider all options (Android, iOS, and even Windows) before making a decision.  As it stands, there isn't enough information about this rumored product to make any sort of informed choice.

post #74 of 127

I guess the story COULD be true. After all, it was ASUS product marketing who came up with this brilliant product. I guess I should not be too surprised with what is possible coming out of ASUS product marketing heads:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqjoRMHyYQc

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post #75 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by DroidFTW View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post
 

DroidFTW and Gatorguy,

 

I gonna go out on a limb here and assume you have no issues buying Android tablets.  Would you buy this Intel based Android product w/ keyboard vs the other ARM based Android tablets offering which don't come with keyboard?  If you did, would your motivation be based on the fact it has Intel HW inside and/or includes a keyboard?  My assumption is it will be priced higher than ARM based tablets which don't come with keyboards.

 

I like to consider all options (Android, iOS, and even Windows) before making a decision.  As it stands, there isn't enough information about this rumored product to make any sort of informed choice.

I'll take that as "I have not considered the need for a Android tablet with x86 CPU and keyboard yet" thus "I have no opinion". fair?

btw, It was a bit odd and necessary to go off on a tangent and comment on how you make your Windows or iOS decisions as this question was specifically about this Android product.  I was not looking for a politically correct answer, just an honest one which allows for your opinion.  I'm frankly surprised that you did not wish to give your opinion based on your willingness to do so in the past.


Edited by snova - 3/7/14 at 2:27pm
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post #76 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post
 

I'll take that as "I have not considered the need for a Android tablet with x86 CPU and keyboard yet" thus "I have no opinion". fair?

btw, It was a bit odd and necessary to go off on a tangent and comment on how you make your Windows or iOS decisions as this question was specifically about this Android product.  I was not looking for a political answer. Just a straight one. 

 

There are more factors in purchasing a tablet then cpu architecture and whether or not it has an attachable keyboard.  I have no opinion on the scenario you're creating as it doesn't contain all the facts.  Fair?


BTW, you thought that was a tangent?  :lol:

post #77 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by DroidFTW View Post
 


BTW, you thought that was a tangent?  :lol:

no offense, but yes I did.  It was odd.

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post #78 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


Based on what? A rumor? From Digitimes??

The same folks who claimed yesterday that there's millions of iPhone 5C's sitting in Pegatron warehouses that nobody wants with another million collecting dust in resellers' stockrooms. That Digitimes?

There might really be some bit of truth in there somewhere, or maybe none at all, but claiming guilt based on only a Digitimes rumor seems a bit hasty to most folks here going by past comments. Maybe Asus will have something to say soon.


I should have added - if the story is true.  Believe me - I am not saying it is true considering the source.  But, if it is true - Google is the new MS of the 1990's.

post #79 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post

no offense, but yes I did.  It was odd.

Now this is a tan-gent. lol.gif
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post #80 of 127

Now this is a tangent.  :)

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