or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Apple to stick with Samsung for A8 chip, final manufacturing prep underway - report
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Apple to stick with Samsung for A8 chip, final manufacturing prep underway - report

post #1 of 63
Thread Starter 
Contrary to recent rumors, Samsung has won the contract to produce Apple's next-generation A-series processor and will do so at the same Texas facility that churns out the 64-bit A7 at the heart of the iPhone 5s and iPad Air, according to a new report from South Korea.

Samsung
Samsung's Austin, Texas semiconductor plant


An unnamed Samsung official told ZDNet Korea that a manufacturing agreement has already been signed and that engineers from both companies are working together to ramp up production. Shipments of the so-called "A8" will reportedly begin this fall, around the same time that many expect Apple to unveil new models of its mobile devices.

Apple's relationship with Samsung has been strained in recent years as the two companies are increasingly at each other's throat both in stores and in the courtroom. Samsung's position as the contract foundry for Apple's closely-guarded A-series processors, arguably the most important component in the company's top-selling iOS devices, is believed to be especially tenuous.

Taipei, Taiwan-based foundry TSMC -- which already makes other, less high-profile chips for Apple -- has been repeatedly tabbed as Samsung's successor for A-series chip production. As recently as last week, reports suggested that TSMC had taken over "most" of the orders for the A8, leaving Samsung as a secondary supplier.

This would not be the first time TSMC has been linked to Apple's flagship silicon, only to have Samsung retain the contract. Rumors pointed in TSMC's direction for both the A6X and A7 processors, and each of those chips eventually rolled off of Samsung's Austin, Texas production line.
post #2 of 63
Doesn't matter; they never saw the co-processor for the Touch ID coming, nor do they appear to have any knowledge on the 64-bit CPU in advance. Better for Apple to setup their own CPU fab, test it and implement only when they are ready. And no, Samsung won't feel much if when Apple take their CPU orders away from them.
How to enter the Apple logo  on iOS:
/Settings/Keyboard/Shortcut and paste in  which you copied from an email draft or a note. Screendump
Reply
How to enter the Apple logo  on iOS:
/Settings/Keyboard/Shortcut and paste in  which you copied from an email draft or a note. Screendump
Reply
post #3 of 63

‘Kay.

 

Why has no one been fired over this?

Why has no one been investigated over this?

Why have we seen no punishment done to anyone?

 

Why is TSMC allowed to keep explicitly lying to boost their stock? 

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #4 of 63
Politics has *nothing* on tech, as Strange Bedfellows go...

Quality isn't expensive... it's priceless.

Reply

Quality isn't expensive... it's priceless.

Reply
post #5 of 63
It sounds like Samsung just bends over further than TSMC. The only way Apple will stay is if the pricing is extremely better, or they ran into some technical issues with TSMC.

With all the margin pressures apple is seeing price would be king. It will be interesting if Apple began moving away from Intel on the MacBook to the A8, now that it is 64 bit.
post #6 of 63
Maybe they will...maybe they won't. Frankly, whatever works best is what must be done.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #7 of 63
I'm holding out for the 256-bit A9...
post #8 of 63
"Shipments of the so-called "A8" will reportedly begin this fall, around the same time that many expect Apple to unveil new models of its mobile devices"

sure, they will ship just at the same time, giving Foxconn PLENTY of time to put the actual chip into the phone on the assembly line. What utter shite.
I've heard of amazing JIT stock management in my day, but this is just another level.

Does anybody writing(copy/pasting) this not stop and think for 1 sec and go "hmm my common senses are tingling" ?

regarding why Apple stay with Samsung, 1 main reason could be term of contract negotiated years ago. Possibly?
post #9 of 63

Maybe the plan is to sell the Samsung manufactured A8s in the USA, because that is one more component built in the USA, and Apple does like to emphasise that whenever it can.  The TSMC A8s could be used for the rest of the world's devices.

 

The processes are different, even if they're both going to be 20nm, so one fab will produce faster chips than the other (or alternatively, one fab will produce lower power chips), so that may determine where a chip goes.

post #10 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanie248 View Post

"Shipments of the so-called "A8" will reportedly begin this fall, around the same time that many expect Apple to unveil new models of its mobile devices"

sure, they will ship just at the same time, giving Foxconn PLENTY of time to put the actual chip into the phone on the assembly line. What utter shite.
I've heard of amazing JIT stock management in my day, but this is just another level.

Does anybody writing(copy/pasting) this not stop and think for 1 sec and go "hmm my common senses are tingling" ?

regarding why Apple stay with Samsung, 1 main reason could be term of contract negotiated years ago. Possibly?

Probably not. They hardly entered into a 7-8 year contract. It's all about ability to scale.

If Apple want to move away from S it should look at intel.
I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
Reply
I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
Reply
post #11 of 63
Samsung owns over 38,000 patents, most of which apply to manufacturing processes. They probably go apeshit and toss lawyers at anyone who uses one of their processes, yet they feel entitled to the patents of others.
bb
Reply
bb
Reply
post #12 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post

It sounds like Samsung just bends over further than TSMC. The only way Apple will stay is if the pricing is extremely better, or they ran into some technical issues with TSMC.

With all the margin pressures apple is seeing price would be king. It will be interesting if Apple began moving away from Intel on the MacBook to the A8, now that it is 64 bit.

A new manufacturer. A new design. A new process. 250M+ CPUs needed in the next 12 months or Apple nearly disappears as a company. And Apple will save maybe $10 on the BOM if they go with TSMC.

No news here, move along.

Note, the NeXT(!) Apple device may very well use TSMC. A gaming-capable iTV processor would be perfect - low volumes, next gen tech, etc.

Macintosh 512Ke.......

Reply

Macintosh 512Ke.......

Reply
post #13 of 63
Earlier this morning I skipped an article by trusted CNBC about TSMC starting to make A8 chips. After reading the above article, I decided to watch the CNBC video.

Guess what? The reporter, Stephen Pelayo, started the video with, "Apple's coming to TSMC for the next advanced technology node, which is called 20 nanometer." Not once did he or other the reporters in the video mention iPhone.

CNBC's written video blurb states, "TSMC has started producing A8 chips for the next generation Apple iPhone 6."

So, is TSMC the problem or are reporters jumping to unsubstantiated conclusions? This is just one instance. Taking more time to collect information is not worth my time at the moment.
post #14 of 63

Disappointing that it is taking Apple so long to extricate itself from this lying, thieving, cheating scumbag of a company.

post #15 of 63

Just because a reported Samsung official says they still are building the A8 doesn't mean they are or that TSMC isn't. Who do you believe, Samsung or TSMC? Everything related to the A8 has been rumors and until it's actually built, we won't know for sure and even then we might not know everything about who and where it's being manufactured.

post #16 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by JONOROM View Post
Note, the NeXT(!) Apple device may very well use TSMC. A gaming-capable iTV processor would be perfect - low volumes, next gen tech, etc.

We can speculate that chips for Apple's wearables may come from TSMC or even Intel, if the price is right.

post #17 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanie248 View Post

sure, they will ship just at the same time, giving Foxconn PLENTY of time to put the actual chip into the phone on the assembly line. What utter shite.
I've heard of amazing JIT stock management in my day, but this is just another level.

Does anybody writing(copy/pasting) this not stop and think for 1 sec and go "hmm my common senses are tingling" ?

 

"Fall" is 3 months long, and Apple usually waits about a month between introducing an iPhone and shipping. Maybe you need to readjust your own "common senses," because that doesn't seem out of line to me. 

post #18 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by leavingthebigG View Post

Earlier this morning I skipped an article by trusted CNBC about TSMC starting to make A8 chips. After reading the above article, I decided to watch the CNBC video.

Guess what? The reporter, Stephen Pelayo, started the video with, "Apple's coming to TSMC for the next advanced technology node, which is called 20 nanometer." Not once did he or other the reporters in the video mention iPhone.

CNBC's written video blurb states, "TSMC has started producing A8 chips for the next generation Apple iPhone 6."

So, is TSMC the problem or are reporters jumping to unsubstantiated conclusions? This is just one instance. Taking more time to collect information is not worth my time at the moment.

 

It's not worth the reporters time either. The CNBC reporter probably was quoting another source, without calling anyone.

 

And I feel like after reading this here, I should toss a coin to decide of Samsung or TSMC is producing the chip. It would make sense if it were an issue of scale and Apple had no choice. But my confidence is not high in the sources yet.

post #19 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Maybe they will...maybe they won't. Frankly, whatever works best is what must be done.

I'm with you. I honestly don't care who they choose because I trust Apple to chose the best option available.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #20 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post

It sounds like Samsung just bends over further than TSMC. The only way Apple will stay is if the pricing is extremely better, or they ran into some technical issues with TSMC.

With all the margin pressures apple is seeing price would be king. It will be interesting if Apple began moving away from Intel on the MacBook to the A8, now that it is 64 bit.

I hope they bent over so far the shaft came well out the other end.
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
Reply
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
Reply
post #21 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by leavingthebigG View Post

Earlier this morning I skipped an article by trusted CNBC about TSMC starting to make A8 chips. After reading the above article, I decided to watch the CNBC video.

Guess what? The reporter, Stephen Pelayo, started the video with, "Apple's coming to TSMC for the next advanced technology node, which is called 20 nanometer." Not once did he or other the reporters in the video mention iPhone.

CNBC's written video blurb states, "TSMC has started producing A8 chips for the next generation Apple iPhone 6."

So, is TSMC the problem or are reporters jumping to unsubstantiated conclusions? This is just one instance. Taking more time to collect information is not worth my time at the moment.

I'd say you are jumping to unsubstantiated conclusions by calling them reporters ;) So yes I'm sure it's not TSMC, rather someone at the network saw something about apple and TSMC that was probably published about six months ago and was so eager to jump on the Apple wagon they didn't bother to actually look into the story. I'm guessing this due to the title "Apple's coming to TSMC for the next advanced technology node, which is called 20 nanometer." which attempts to cram any buzzword they could find about chip production into it.

 

I would skip any article dealing with technology being published by any of the major news networks. You'd be much better severed by actual tech sites like AI, AnandTech, Tomshardware, etc.

post #22 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobJohnson View Post
 

 

"Fall" is 3 months long, and Apple usually waits about a month between introducing an iPhone and shipping. Maybe you need to readjust your own "common senses," because that doesn't seem out of line to me. 

what has "fall" or any time of the year got to do with this? My point was AI writing that Samsung intend to ship around the same time as Apple unveils the new iPhone. Its still a stupid (and pointless) thing to say. Surely it would be more normal to say SS instead to ship the chip a few weeks (or months or whatever) before the iPhone is unveiled? If it was up to me though, I wouldn't put it in at all. Its redundant.

post #23 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobJohnson View Post

"Fall" is 3 months long, and Apple usually waits about a month between introducing an iPhone and shipping. Maybe you need to readjust your own "common senses," because that doesn't seem out of line to me. 

Apple usually announces/ ships near the end of October (4-6 weeks into Fall). How long does it take to make the chips and how long does it take to put them in an iPhone and how long does it take to make 10-15 MM iPhones by the beginning of sales?
post #24 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post


Probably not. They hardly entered into a 7-8 year contract. It's all about ability to scale.

If Apple want to move away from S it should look at intel.

No they likely did not enter into a 7-8 year contract. however they may have entered into a 3 year contract when they were dealing with the A6 to handle the A6, A7 and A8. I do also agree with you that scalability is also a major factor. I'd think it's likely a little of both, they may still be under some contract with them, as well as they still have concerns with TSMC's ability to scale capacity.

 

Lastly I agree that if Apple is looking to ditch Samsung, Intel will likely end up in the mix. However that isn't a decision Apple can make and it up to Intel to decided if they are willing to be a foundry for 3rd party chip designs. I have hopes with the move Intel has made with Altera that they may be signaling to Apple they are willing to re-think their stance on only producing chips based on Intel architecture. I'm sure they are not sitting by with their heads in the sand watching quarter after quarter of PC sales declining while mobile devices increase, not thinking "hey we have nearly zero market share in what is replacing the cow were milking".

post #25 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post
With all the margin pressures apple is seeing price would be king. It will be interesting if Apple began moving away from Intel on the MacBook to the A8, now that it is 64 bit.

 

I think Apple will launch something new using the A8, but. imo,  the mac's will stay with intel for now. I think they will build something between tablets and laptops, or an ipad pro if you like.

post #26 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post

It sounds like Samsung just bends over further than TSMC. The only way Apple will stay is if the pricing is extremely better, or they ran into some technical issues with TSMC.

I think that plays the bigger role.  TSMC just screwed up massively with Asus

2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

Reply

2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

Reply
post #27 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob53 View Post
 

Just because a reported Samsung official says they still are building the A8 doesn't mean they are or that TSMC isn't. Who do you believe, Samsung or TSMC? Everything related to the A8 has been rumors and until it's actually built, we won't know for sure and even then we might not know everything about who and where it's being manufactured.

good point since we all know Apple will never say one way or another. I starting to believe the mere fact that Apple does not confirm or deny any such rumors allows companies to make claims which they know Apple will not say anything about. They all know that later that people will forget the claims they made since they moved on to make new claims that everyone is now interested in.

post #28 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post

It sounds like Samsung just bends over further than TSMC. The only way Apple will stay is if the pricing is extremely better, or they ran into some technical issues with TSMC.

With all the margin pressures apple is seeing price would be king. It will be interesting if Apple began moving away from Intel on the MacBook to the A8, now that it is 64 bit.

 

A challenge with replacing Intel with an A# chip in Macs is that backwards compatibility with Intel programs will require emulation, and emulation speeds might not be that great. In the past when Apple has changed CPU architectures (680x0 to PPC; PPC to Intel), the architecture Apple was moving to was substantially more powerful than the one it was leaving, meaning that the emulation penalty felt by end-users wasn't too horrible. But if Apple moves from Intel to their own chips in the Mac, it will be more for reasons of cost than performance, meaning that there won't be much of a performance gain to hide the emulation penalty. 

 

Given all that, I think that if Apple were to use A# chips for something other than iDevices, the first use might be in Apple's own data centers. Presumably Apple is using Xeons in its servers, and Xeons are very expensive. Replacing Xeons with a server-oriented version of the A# chips (say, 8 cyclone cores on a die; no GPU; bigger cache; support for ECC RAM) could be a good way to save money, and there wouldn't be an emulation penalty, since presumably Apple would be in a position to recompile all relevant software for the new chip. 

 

Once Apple has A# chips running on its servers, perhaps a new high-end service for Pro users could be introduced that would allow users to run software on Apple's servers. Initially the only people who would use such a service would be people who can compile their own code. But in time, the service could be expanded as more software is ported to A# chips. Gradually, we might reach a point where so much software has been recompiled to run on A# chips, that Apple could make the switch in Macs. 

post #29 of 63
I would just like to know why no one can seem to get this right.
post #30 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blastdoor View Post

A challenge with replacing Intel with an A# chip in Macs is that backwards compatibility with Intel programs will require emulation, and emulation speeds might not be that great. In the past when Apple has changed CPU architectures (680x0 to PPC; PPC to Intel), the architecture Apple was moving to was substantially more powerful than the one it was leaving, meaning that the emulation penalty felt by end-users wasn't too horrible. But if Apple moves from Intel to their own chips in the Mac, it will be more for reasons of cost than performance, meaning that there won't be much of a performance gain to hide the emulation penalty. 

Given all that, I think that if Apple were to use A# chips for something other than iDevices, the first use might be in Apple's own data centers. Presumably Apple is using Xeons in its servers, and Xeons are very expensive. Replacing Xeons with a server-oriented version of the A# chips (say, 8 cyclone cores on a die; no GPU; bigger cache; support for ECC RAM) could be a good way to save money, and there wouldn't be an emulation penalty, since presumably Apple would be in a position to recompile all relevant software for the new chip. 

Once Apple has A# chips running on its servers, perhaps a new high-end service for Pro users could be introduced that would allow users to run software on Apple's servers. Initially the only people who would use such a service would be people who can compile their own code. But in time, the service could be expanded as more software is ported to A# chips. Gradually, we might reach a point where so much software has been recompiled to run on A# chips, that Apple could make the switch in Macs. 

It would be a lot easier to replace the chip in a Macbook Air than a Xeon in a server. The A7 is already as powerful as the i3 in a two year old Macbook Air. What will the A8 be? Emulation does require a much more powerful chain than the one being emulated. But it's not that simple.

That assumes two different off the shelf chips. But that's not the story for Apple. They highly customize their ARM chips, using the architectural license they have from ARM. Math routines used in x86 chips aren't patented. It's some of those routines that cause emulation slowdowns. If Apple really wanted to, they could add the circuits to their own chip for those routines, and use them during the emulation process. Will they do this? Who knows? But they can.
post #31 of 63
If this comes back to bite Apple in the ass -- like if Samsung steals Apple's IP, blows a critical deadline, or sabotages the A8 in any way -- Apple will have no one to blame but itself. Hope I'm wrong but I can smell trouble coming a year away!
post #32 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


Apple usually announces/ ships near the end of October (4-6 weeks into Fall). How long does it take to make the chips and how long does it take to put them in an iPhone and how long does it take to make 10-15 MM iPhones by the beginning of sales?

 

With the iPhone 5 (2012) and the iPhone 5s (2013) Apple made the announcement in early/mid-September and released about 10 days later.  The only iPhone ever released in October was the 4S.

post #33 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I would just like to know why no one can seem to get this right.

Maybe it's a decoy. Apple will be using the A9, A10 or whatever and they are being made elsewhere and the A8 is just a temporary chip ... Oh well just dreaming ... 1smile.gif
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
Reply
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
Reply
post #34 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ Web View Post

If this comes back to bite Apple in the ass -- like if Samsung steals Apple's IP, blows a critical deadline, or sabotages the A8 in any way -- Apple will have no one to blame but itself. Hope I'm wrong but I can smell trouble coming a year away!

 

I can't recall even a whiff of evidence that Samsung's semiconductor division has stolen any Apple IP, sabotaged any Apple products, or blown any Apple-set deadlines. Apple wouldn't keep going back to Samsung if that was happening. I think Tim knows what he's doing.

post #35 of 63
What's this? Rumors contradicting other rumors? How can that be if rumors are akin to unconditional truth? 1smile.gif

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply
post #36 of 63

I have complete confidence, in regards to this manufacturing situation, that Apple will do what is best for Apple. Remember the old adage "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer."

"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." Douglas Adams

Reply

"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." Douglas Adams

Reply
post #37 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I would just like to know why no one can seem to get this right.

Reporting it, the sources, or do you mean anyone other than Samsung being able to fab Apple's A-series chips?

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #38 of 63

I never buy anything from Samsung because they are immoral.  Apple is doing the right thing by trying their level best to make Samsung-free products.  The sooner, the better.

post #39 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

‘Kay.

 

Why has no one been fired over this?

Why has no one been investigated over this?

Why have we seen no punishment done to anyone?

 

Why is TSMC allowed to keep explicitly lying to boost their stock? 

Welcome to Foreign Equity Markets.

As little oversight that NASD and SEC, and DoJ have over US companies to prosecute  this sort of stuff,  over there, it's business as usual, if you pay off the right people.

post #40 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Baker View Post
 

Disappointing that it is taking Apple so long to extricate itself from this lying, thieving, cheating scumbag of a company.

 

It's in Apple's best interests to have multiple suppliers for their components. Eg, they have 3 for displays, and Samsung is one of them. The CPU is one of the few where they don't have multiple suppliers for a component, on their handheld, laps and desktop computers actually. If Samsung has a production 20 nm fab ready, go for it.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPhone
  • Apple to stick with Samsung for A8 chip, final manufacturing prep underway - report
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Apple to stick with Samsung for A8 chip, final manufacturing prep underway - report