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How Android lost global open market share to Apple's integrated iOS - Page 4

post #121 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

if you buy an official Android product YOU DO NOT HAVE THAT CHOICE.

Wrong. You can very easily cut Google out completely from a Android device, you can set the default apps to your liking. You don't have to buy apps from them, and you don't need a Gmail account. Do a little fact checking before screaming out claims.
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post #122 of 239
Over long again. However good point at the end. Apple is now going to have a few generations of device supremacy. With OS supremacy ( or equal ness if you are an android fan) this matters. Samsung have messed up the S 5, Moto is sold, only HTC can maybe match on design. And design matters when you are carrying stuff around with you. Apple can keep the top end and increase penetration elsewhere.
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post #123 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAS99 View Post

Nice article. Lots of research went into this, obviously.

It's not sensationalistic, however, so major news outlets won't pick it up. This article is a wet blanket tossed on the "Android is taking over" marketshare fire that continues to be the dominant story in the media.

Must be something in the air. Your username suggests that you're a troll, but your post suggests otherwise. A breath of fresh air!
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post #124 of 239
Originally Posted by WS11 View Post

Considering this just happened, Apple might finally fall in line with EU regulations.

 

Except they’ve already complied with EU regulations. iDevices ship with a MicroUSB adapter. Apple will never put a USB port on their products. It isn’t happening.

 

Originally Posted by ClemyNX View Post
Why didn't others succeed otherwise? 

 

Because that’s literally how bad Android is. On its own, it bankrupts companies. Things had to be stolen from Apple for it to succeed.

 

Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post
So you want to have over 90% market share like MS had with Windows? It wasn't good then, and it wouldn't be good now.

 

Of course it would be good now. We’d have a company that would actually innovate.

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post #125 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Of course it would be good now. We’d have a company that would actually innovate.

Out of everything MS did with their monopolistic position you chose 'not innovating' as your biggest complaint? I know you have more sense, and are more intelligent than that.
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post #126 of 239
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post
Out of everything MS did with their monopolistic position you chose 'not innovating' as your biggest complaint? I know you have more sense, and are more intelligent than that.

 

You know exactly what I mean. One of the largest complaints with monopolies is that without competition, the company has no incentive to release improved products. We certainly saw that with Microsoft in the ‘90s, but we explicitly didn’t see it with Apple and the iPod.

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post #127 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Because that’s literally how bad Android is. On its own, it bankrupts companies. Things had to be stolen from Apple for it to succeed.

What companies did it bankrupt? Palm did their own thing and are gone, BB did their own thing and is dying. While Android hasn't been a success for Moto, LG, HTC, etc it has allowed them to survive. Imagine if they had all tried making their own OS. They would all either no longer exist or slowly dying. The market would not support 4,5,6 different OSs.

Apple has bankrupted a lot more companies than Android ever will.
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post #128 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

You can very easily cut Google out completely from a Android device, you can set the default apps to your liking. You don't have to buy apps from them, and you don't need a Gmail account.

A modern smartphone without cloud integration, web services and apps? That's a paradox, isn't it? Besides, this defeats the point of owning such a phone in the first place. A cheaper one would also offer similar utility.

post #129 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

You know exactly what I mean. One of the largest complaints with monopolies is that without competition, the company has no incentive to release improved products. We certainly saw that with Microsoft in the ‘90s, but we explicitly didn’t see it with Apple and the iPod.

I get that, and controlling the software and hardware is essential to the level of innovation that Apple is able to accomplish. Allowing another manufacturer to use iOS as the OP suggested would take some of the device innovating out of Apple's hands.
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post #130 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by crysisftw View Post

A modern smartphone without cloud integration, web services and apps? That's a paradox, isn't it? Besides, this defeats the point of owning such a phone in the first place. A cheaper one would also offer similar utility.

What I meant is that you can have all that without going through Google.
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post #131 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by crysisftw View Post
Quote:
 Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

You can very easily cut Google out completely from a Android device, you can set the default apps to your liking. You don't have to buy apps from them, and you don't need a Gmail account.
 

A modern smartphone without cloud integration, web services and apps? That's a paradox, isn't it? Besides, this defeats the point of owning such a phone in the first place. A cheaper one would also offer similar utility.

That's not what he wrote. What he's saying is that you can set Yahoo mail as your default email client, you can set Yahoo search as your default search app, you can set Tom-Tom as your default mapping app, etc. In some ways, you can substitute other services for Google services to a greater extent than you can replace Apple software with third-party offerings on iOS, where mail links always take you to Apple Mail, map links always open in Apple Maps, and web urls always open in Safari. You'll still need a Google account to get apps from Google Play, just like the App Store requires an Apple ID. 

post #132 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post

That's not what he wrote. What he's saying is that you can set Yahoo mail as your default email client, you can set Yahoo search as your default search app, you can set Tom-Tom as your default mapping app, etc. Basically, you can substitute other services for Google services, in some ways to a greater extent than you can replace Apple software with third-party offerings on iOS, where mail links always take you to Apple Mail, map links always open in Apple Maps, and web urls always open in Safari. You'll still need a Google account to get apps from Google Play, just like the App Store requires an Apple ID. 

Thanks, but one doesn't have to get their apps from Google. Amazon has a app store, or they can be sideloaded.
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post #133 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Because that’s literally how bad Android is. On its own, it bankrupts companies. Things had to be stolen from Apple for it to succeed.

 

Which Android OEMs have the expertise to write their own OS? It would seem that without Android, they wouldn't have been able to compete at all.

post #134 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post
 

That's not what he wrote. What he's saying is that you can set Yahoo mail as your default email client, you can set Yahoo search as your default search app, you can set Tom-Tom as your default mapping app, etc. In some ways, you can substitute other services for Google services to a greater extent than you can replace Apple software with third-party offerings on iOS, where mail links always take you to Apple Mail, map links always open in Apple Maps, and web urls always open in Safari. You'll still need a Google account to get apps from Google Play, just like the App Store requires an Apple ID. 

Oh, Okay. I inferred it another way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Thanks, but one doesn't have to get their apps from Google. Amazon has a app store, or they can be sideloaded.

Hmmmm, but doesn't Google collect usage data (even when you have opted out)?

post #135 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by crysisftw View Post

Oh, Okay. I inferred it another way.
Hmmmm, but doesn't Google collect usage data (even when you have opted out)?

Anonymous data will always be collected, even Apple does that.
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post #136 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Anonymous data will always be collected, even Apple does that.

Be aware too that the carriers collect personal data and do sell it unlike Apple or Google, tho in a supposedly anonymized form. ATT's opt-out procedure to prevent your data from being sold is linked here, but note that your personal usage info will still be collected.
http://bgr.com/2013/07/05/att-advertising-opt-out-how-to/

To tell Verizon not to sell your data to marketers use this:
http://www.businessinsider.com/opt-out-of-verizon-data-selling-2012-10
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post #137 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post



There's a more detailed description of the different settings here:
http://www.mobilesecurity.com/articles/552-how-to-manage-privacy-settings-in-android
Sounds nice but even on your iDevice there's some tracking and data collection services Apple has gone ahead and opted-in for you. Here's some you might want to turn off or at least be aware of if your privacy is high-priority.
https://www.komando.com/tips/12353/6-privacy-settings-to-change-in-ios-7-now/all

Thanks. I find it a bit odd that your link leads to Norton's anti-virus site & the last link that d4NjvRzf took me to another anti-virus company site. I would think Google itself would have something official. Is there any Google documentation on this & what versions of Android does this works on.

post #138 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splif View Post

Thanks. I find it a bit odd that your link leads to Norton's anti-virus site & the last link that d4NjvRzf took me to another anti-virus company site. I would think Google itself would have something official. Is there any Google documentation on this & what versions of Android does this works on.

Sounds like something is redirecting your browser. Both links work fine.
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post #139 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Sounds like something is redirecting your browser. Both links work fine.

No...the articles are there. They are on ant-virus sites. How does this answer my question? I didn't say the links did not work.

post #140 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splif View Post

Thanks. I find it a bit odd that your link leads to Norton's anti-virus site & the last link that d4NjvRzf took me to another anti-virus company site.
Are you concerned with the accuracy of the advice and information offered, or wanting more? Just curious. The settings I saw for myself were on Jellybean from a couple years ago if that's helpful. That would mean most Android handsets and tablets would offer similar control over privacy and data collection.

FWIW I couldn't find an Apple article discussing the same information as the 3rd party link for Apple security settings I gave you. Might be there somewhere but it didn't pop up in the first couple of pages. My guess is that both Apple and Google have the help files on those various settings spread around in different documents. IMO I don't think either company really wants to encourage users to change them and so they don't make the information obvious or well-publicized. The links I offered helpfully put them all in a single article, which I would have thought more convenient for you.

I suppose if you want to hunt around setting by setting with web searches both Apple and Google probably offer advice on them somewhere in their documentation. I don't intend to take the time to do so since I already found what I needed, at least for now. If you find something that disagrees with anything I posted or the information offered in the links let us know.
Edited by Gatorguy - 3/15/14 at 12:30pm
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post #141 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


Are you concerned with the accuracy of the advice and information offered, or wanting more? Just curious. The settings I saw for myself were on Jellybean from a couple years ago if that's helpful. That would mean most Android handsets and tablets would offer similar control over privacy and data collection.

FWIW I couldn't find an Apple article discussing the same information as the 3rd party link for Apple security settings I gave you. Might be there somewhere but it didn't pop up in the first couple of pages. My guess is that both Apple and Google have the help files on those various settings spread around in different documents. IMO I don't think either company really wants to encourage users to change them and so they don't make the information obvious or well-publicized. The links I offered helpfully put them all in a single article, which I would have thought more convenient for you.

I suppose if you want to hunt around setting by setting with web searches both Apple and Google probably offer advice on them somewhere in their documentation. I don't intend to take the time to do so since I already found what I needed, at least for now. If you find something that disagrees with anything I posted or the information offered in the links let us know.

It's easy to find on Apples site. Click on the iPhone tab. There are user manuals, it's under privacy. It's really not that complicated. Maybe you could point me in the direction of Google's user manuals for Android, just out of curiosity. If you can't that's fine.

post #142 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splif View Post

It's easy to find on Apples site. Click on the iPhone tab. There are user manuals, it's under privacy. It's really not that complicated. Maybe you could point me in the direction of Google's user manuals for Android, just out of curiosity. If you can't that's fine.
You still didn't say why your weren't satisfied with the previous links, or if anything you read in them was inaccurate. 1confused.gif

I imagine the settings are discussed in most if not all user manuals when you buy a smartphone. Here's the one for the Samsung S3 for instance, and yes the settings are discussed.
http://www.att.com/support_static_files/manuals/Samsung_Galaxy_S_III.pdf

The problem with Apple and Samsung and HTC, and etc is they don't do a very good job explaining why you might want to change the factory default settings. Both of the articles I linked for you filled in the missing information so you could make a more educated choice on whether to leave them as they are or change them to better match your personal privacy expectations.

I'll make a guess that you were hoping iOS and Android data sharing and privacy controls weren't as similar as they turn out to be? I think they both could do more and I might prefer that some things weren't automatically enabled but they're both businesses doing what's best for their companies. They know that the settings the phone comes with probably won't be changed. Most owners aren't going to go in and consciously choose to receive interest-based ads or share their location or send their contacts (and relationship to the owner) or volunteer what they use their phones for to Google or Apple. So they chose for them. Fair to say the user sees benefits from sharing information with them too so it's not a one-way relationship.
Edited by Gatorguy - 3/15/14 at 3:59pm
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post #143 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


What I meant is that you can have all that without going through Google.

...and open the whole can of worms i.e. the danger of not using Google Play, which we are constantly told makes Android less of a security risk.

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post #144 of 239
Originally Posted by WS11 View Post
Apple sells a Micro USB to lightning adaptor for 19,00 €, but it does not come in the box.

 

I’m to understand that it does within the EU. Doesn’t it? Because of the old legislation.

 

I love that government thinks it can tell people how to charge their electronics. :lol:

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post #145 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I’m to understand that it does within the EU. Doesn’t it? Because of the old legislation.
No. Lightning cable and USB plug, same as anywhere else. That's a compliant solution.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I love that government thinks it can tell people how to charge their electronics. lol.gif
???

Until recently many manufacturers were changing their charging port and cables what seemed like every other iteration. The market had already moved toward a predominantly USB based solution, and the rules have merely reaffirmed that and put some stragglers in line to prevent ever more plugs being sent to landfill.

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post #146 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Wrong. You can very easily cut Google out completely from a Android device, you can set the default apps to your liking. You don't have to buy apps from them, and you don't need a Gmail account. Do a little fact checking before screaming out claims.

nice try, word games. "official Google" = using the Google ecosystem. and no, once you are in it, you can't readily get out of all its data mining and still use it all. sure, you can abandon all Google services, root you phone, etc. and escape. but that's not what consumers do. and Google knows that and exploits that.

post #147 of 239
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post
Until recently many manufacturers were changing their charging port and cables what seemed like every other iteration. 

 

So? Why should they not be able to design what works best for them?

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post #148 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

nice try, word games. "official Google" = using the Google ecosystem. and no, once you are in it, you can't readily get out of all its data mining and still use it all. sure, you can abandon all Google services, root you phone, etc. and escape. but that's not what consumers do. and Google knows that and exploits that.

All I'm saying is that the choice is there which you vehemently denied. Yes most users don't choose it but that doesn't negate its existence.
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post #149 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

So? Why should they not be able to design what works best for them?
Read the rest of the post.

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post #150 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

...and open the whole can of worms i.e. the danger of not using Google Play, which we are constantly told makes Android less of a security risk.

Could be that they're safer to get from Amazon. I haven't seen one reported incident in their app store.
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post #151 of 239
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post
Read the rest of the post.

 

Yes. I fail to see how that applies in regard to anything relevant here. Do USB ports biodegrade and I’ve just been missing that all these years? Is that why people lose them? They leave them in the sun and the cables just decompose and poof, gone?

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post #152 of 239
No, but their continuing use across many models and generations of phone makes them reusable. Just like how I'm sure many users of Apple products over the past 10 years will appreciate having a few plugs knocking around now. Reuse is even better than recycle, and plugs often aren't even recyclable. So it's consumer friendly and environmentally friendly.

Do you know of any consumers who are demanding more variation in power plug design for cellphones?

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post #153 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Could be that they're safer to get from Amazon. I haven't seen one reported incident in their app store.

 

Why would you be opting out of Google services on an Amazon device?

 

They don't come with them.

 

Now back to the subject at hand removing Google from your run of the mill everyday Android phone.

 

The security risk, as we are constantly told only happens when not using Google.

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post #154 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post
 

This whole article seems rather silly saying how great Apple, iPhones and iOS is considering Google is said to be the future of the internet and everything else.  Compared to Google and Android, Apple is seen as a failing company.  Apple is definitely considered a doomed company with relatively low shareholder value based on continued loss of iPhone market share to Android.  Almost no one sees Apple as being able to sustain its profits and many claim Apple will be simply put out of business within a few years as all their products are commoditized.  People seem to be overlooking the fact that Google is worth $1200 a share while Apple is struggling to hold $530 a share.  No intelligent investor has any faith in Apple being able to deliver new products and most believe that a high-end iPhone isn't any better than the common Android smartphone.  No matter how many iPhones Apple sells, it's never nearly enough to keep pace with Android smartphone sales and that is seen as a major failing.

 

I honestly don't see how anyone can say that Apple is a better company than Google is when Google has the strongest backing on Wall Street.  Market share remains the most important measure of how well a company is doing and Apple looks pretty sick based on shrinking market share.  Doesn't it make sense that investors put their money on a company that looks like a winner?  Apple certainly does not look like a winner from an investor's point of view.  I have no doubt that Apple is making the most revenue and profits at the moment but nearly everyone claims those days are practically over.  I'm a long-term Apple shareholder but even from my point of view Apple seems like a struggling company with nearly no one backing the company.  It's never been said that Google is a dying company.  Apple holds that title.  Apple definitely doesn't get any respect as a company without Steve Jobs around.  Tim Cook doesn't seem fit to be Apple's CEO.  Apple seems to be throwing away so many opportunities to give itself a solid future despite sitting on a huge mountain of cash.  I've just about given up on Apple as the company looks like it's being run into the ground.

 

Google has a lot of 'buns in the oven' … some of these buns are canceled and really - what has Google ever done, besides search?  Google is a search/ad company - that is (mostly) it - by most measures.  Android is simply their mobile OS to help ensure Google is used for search, but they could sell several billion phones, yet how useful is this to Google when they are not used a smart phones - and/or when they have no data plan?  Android is mostly for people who want a cheap feature phone - or for people who have an obsessive need to customize their phone … or maybe they just don't want Apple … I am glad that Android is around, though sometimes, dealing with Fandroids is a bit tiring … 

 

So I think this article does bring home some great points - market share can matter, but what, really is the market?  Apple is in (arguably) the high end/premium smart phone market - that is all they ever wanted and that is what they own.  Apple - it would seem builds things that people value - I know I do.

 

I could spend less on Android or other phones - and I have looked, but know I would feel like the money spent was wasted.   With Apple I feel like the money spent is an investment…  I guess this is the thing Apple users understand and Wall Street never gets, pity, but then the 'Street' is often wrong… like in 1988, 1991, 2001, 2007/2008 …. 

post #155 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Except they’ve already complied with EU regulations.

True.
Quote:
iDevices ship with a MicroUSB adapter.

Not true.
Quote:
Apple will never put a USB port on their products. It isn’t happening.

I don't see that happening, not only because Apple wants to be in charge of their design, also because it's not a requirement in the EU to ship your CE device with a microUSB plug; it just need to be available.
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post #156 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Why would you be opting out of Google services on an Amazon device?

They don't come with them.

Now back to the subject at hand removing Google from your run of the mill everyday Android phone.

The security risk, as we are constantly told only happens when not using Google.

One doesn't need a Amazon device to get apps from Amazon's app store. I assumed that fact was well known.
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post #157 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


One doesn't need a Amazon device to get apps from Amazon's app store. I assumed that fact was well known.

Amazon's App Store also has a subjective curation process similar to what Apple does. If you prefer a store where the apps are inspected by humans instead of purely by computer algorithms as Google Play's apps are, Amazon's store would be an option for you.

post #158 of 239
Mueller of FOSSpatents has an usual article up this morning. Included are the claims Apple has already lost the platform battle to Google, more developers are now concentrating on creating Android apps than iOS ones and then strays into details about an Apple guy suing him. I take that as his observation that negative Apple comments can attract serious attacks from Apple commits? Not entirely sure what his point is. Quite a different article from him.
http://www.fosspatents.com/2014/03/book-recommendation-haunted-empire.html
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post #159 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

...more developers are now concentrating on creating Android apps than iOS ones...

I have seen no evidence of this happening.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #160 of 239

Depends what you mean by "concentrating".  Since Android apps are harder to develop for variant form factors and therefore take up more developer-hours, that could be said to require more "concentration" ;)

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