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How Android lost global open market share to Apple's integrated iOS - Page 3

post #81 of 239
"We can not guarantee that Android is designed to be safe, the format was designed to give more freedom"
Android chief Sundar Pichai at the 2014 Mobile World Congress.
post #82 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

Market share doesn't matter except when it can be used to criticise Android.

And TouchID for some reason is comparable to Google Wallet.

Another barely concealed rant of an editorial that throws everything against the wall to try and make criticism stick. Ironically similar to Android development practice.

 

Sometimes, I wonder it's written by Samsung product development team. 

post #83 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post
 

 

The N96 definitely made money for Nokia. It was a relatively small spin on the N95/N95 8GB and sold for a high price. When the N96 was released, Nokia was still selling 100 million smartphones per quarter. 

 

The N97 was the death knell though. It was bulky, slow and uncompetitive. I was actually the external beta test for it.

 

I have no idea about the subject? I think you have no idea about whether I have an idea about the subject. ;)

 

But that's not even what I'm disputing. I'm disputing DED's knowledge of what happened before the iPhone was released.

 

One of the major selling points of the N96 was it had a TV tuner, which was incompatible almost everywhere on earth, it marked the beginning of Nokia's downfall compounded by their attempt to move into touch screens with the N97, which is why I attempted by the use of the backslash to demonstrate that Nokia's downfall began at the transition, when they realised they needed a touchscreen to compete.

 

That was when there were complaints about the iPhone's "huge" screen, strange how times change.

 

So your are trying to deny that pre-iPhone Symbian was where Android is now as DED's article postulates?


Edited by hill60 - 3/14/14 at 1:10pm
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post #84 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradipao View Post


Someway this can be considered true, since most of profits in smartphone market go to Apple.

But while Apple gives iOs for free in order to make profits from hardware, Google gives Android for free and hardware on par (Nexus) or let other sell hardware (Samsung and others) in order to sell its services (search with ads, map with ads, youtube with ads, ...). In this context, even if not directly a commercial success, Android is a huge success for Google: deeply embedded services and search bar in the home screen of roughly one billion devices, without paying anything to hardware manufacturers.

 

Compare that to iTunes revenue, Apple makes more out of iTunes at a faster growth rate than all the Android handset makers, apart from Samsung, added together.

 

Do the idiots manipulating Wall St take that into account?

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post #85 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post
 

DED if you put on some ruby slippers and click your heels together, maybe your dreams will come true.

 

For some constructive criticism, I would recommend cutting down on the disparaging comments toward Google/Android.  You could have made an interesting article about the parallels between early Java Mobile platforms and Android, but your inability to control your fury towards Google turned this into a hit piece that no unbiased reader will take seriously.  You won't convert anyone to your religion using malice or zealotry.

 

Why not?

 

It works for the brainwashed, google bedazzled acolytes who continuously babble on about Android.

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post #86 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by hungover View Post
 

DED,

 

The following is probably going to sound more curt than I intended (my back hurts and I am trying to supplement the NSAIDs with alcohol in the pub post work) , I apologise in advance.

 

 

This makes absolutely no sense at all. OEMs could do pretty much whatever they wanted (with regard to form factor, hardware specs and software), hence HTC baked in Sense and before that, introduced both the finger based scrolling TrueFlo and motion based VueFlo back in early 2007. Indeed HTC were so annoyed at people porting their "innovations" to other handsets that they resorted to Cease & Desist noticed for sites offering custom ROMs containing their IP (this should be considered in a historical context, one where MS didn't care a jot if owners were flashing with newer versions of WM).  

 

I get that you hate MS, fair enough, that is your choice, but please do not distort the truth to fit your agenda.

 

Frankly after reading the above quote I decided to stop. It may well be an awfully well written article but I for one am unlikely to find out.

 

Too bad HTC's custom "innovations" screwed the graphics drivers so bad it caused quite the kerfuffle over on XDA.

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post #87 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by timichas View Post

This article was mostly inane drivel.

There's a lot of flawed logic, and a lot of things that don't quite add up. I'm no Fandroid by any account, but this is a bona fide Apple circle jerk.

The concept behind Android and iOS is fundamentally different. Google released Android into the wild not to make money off of it, but to provide an alternate mobile platform. Of course, they have made money from it, but there's no comparative "Google phone" like an iPhone (Nexus devices are close). For this reason alone, trying to compare the two is a futile effort at best.

I'm always amazed people like the author of this article can find work writing when they miss essential concepts like this.

 

This article is about Android being where Symbian was before it collapsed.

 

Try to keep up.

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post #88 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

This article is about Android being where Symbian was before it collapsed.

Try to keep up.

Hardly. Read the headline. Then read nearly every statement made.
post #89 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS11 View Post
 

That's the standard cable for micro USB 3.0.

 

Considering this just happened, Apple might finally fall in line with EU regulations.

"On Thursday MEPs voted overwhelmingly in favour of the regulation, which will see a common charger used for smartphones by 2017."

"The design of charger being favoured uses a Micro USB connector - a format used on many handsets and other devices already."

 

 

Strange, the standard Micro USB cables on my other devices aren't split in two like that.

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post #90 of 239
It's truly disgusting to see that Samsung became the leader in Android phones by stealing. Why didn't others succeed otherwise? HTC, Nokia and others played by the rules and are now in a bad spot mainly because Samsung took advantage of the situation illegally. And now they are just making clones of Google apps, and will soon leave on their own adventure, after having taken advantage of Google's ecosystem. I hope they burn, and I think they will, knowing how incapable they are of doing quality stuff, see their lame smartwatch.
post #91 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Per device I'm sure Apple still wins by a wide margin but overall it could go either way. I base this on most Android-based devices simply not being used as smartphones or tablets, but rather just being used as dummy devices with a free OS.

If we only count devices that access Google Play I'm sure Apple still wins but the margin is much lower, and if we only count high-end devices like the Galaxy S3/S4Note/etc. then I'd say they would be on par for ad revenue, and likely push those devices above iDevice profit when you consider the licensing for services from the OEMs.

But I digress, and think Apple is still likely higher overall because Android's growth, according to Asymco, has plateaued.

That would indicate that iOS users are more a Google 'product' than Android users, much to the chagrin of many here.
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post #92 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcfa View Post

"Google's ideological bent toward "openness" precludes real security"

While most of the article is dead on, the quote above is utter garbage.
Security and openness are not only not contradictions, openness is a prerequisite for security, because without peer reviewed code there is no security, there's just obscurity and blind trust.
However, openness cannot make up for bad design, lack of care and priorities other than security (such as spying on users to better target ads).
So, no problem criticizing Android, but don't make up ridiculous and blatantly wrong claims while doing so; anyone in computer security is laughing at you for a phrase like the one quoted above...

 

GnuTLS was "peer reviewed code," yet despite all the ideological "openness" behind it, it harbored massive security problems throughout its architecture for over half a decade of use within major Linux distributions. And it’s a key security library that should have had attention and "eyes" on it! 

 

I understand the concept you’re trying to make because I used to believe that too, but in reality, openness hasn’t resulted in better security. It’s just made it easier to find known problems, both for users and for malicious coders seeking to exploit others. 

 

The reality is that Android’s prioritization of "openness" over security has indeed resulted in a system that is easy to obtain but hard to actually secure. There was no misquote by AI in what Android executives have said about their product, nor are the facts changed by Google issuing a broad insistence that his words were taken out of context. The facts speak for themselves. Android is not a secure product by way of its openness, but it is riddled with security issues due to the fact that Google has avoided taking a strong stand in security issues, over and over.

 

That’s also why "anyone in computer security" wouldn’t deploy consumer Android devices in a corporate setting. You have to wrap them in diapers like Knox that kill Google’s whole ideological "openness" that lets any app read any data on the phone, take over camera functions and upload your contacts just by including some obtuse disclaimers in Google Play. 

post #93 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS11 View Post
 

The normal Micro USB 2.0 is the larger half of that plug.  

 

Some devices support the high speed Micro USB 3.0, so it has that extra bit on the plug. 

 

You can still use a Micro USB 2.0 plug with a Micro USB 3.0 device. 

 

usb3.gif 

So how many lightning connectors are in the wild compared to this, which I've only ever seen with the note 3?

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post #94 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemyNX View Post

It's truly disgusting to see that Samsung became the leader in Android phones by stealing. Why didn't others succeed otherwise? HTC, Nokia and others played by the rules and are now in a bad spot mainly because Samsung took advantage of the situation illegally. And now they are just making clones of Google apps, and will soon leave on their own adventure, after having taken advantage of Google's ecosystem. I hope they burn, and I think they will, knowing how incapable they are of doing quality stuff, see their lame smartwatch.

Motorola gave up a early lead to Samsung by releasing uninspiring devices. Moto even led the charge of big screen devices and was unable to capitalize on it.
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post #95 of 239
Love your articles!
Finally someone points out the tragic disappearance of Symbian and Java ME.
But that's not Android, oh no.
The world is full of lies and greed.
Don't let it get you down.
post #96 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Except that you're ignoring the fact that Google mines a ton of data from iOS users. Even if a user switches to a iPhone from a Android one they're going to download every Google app there is and except for Google's cut of apps that user will still be a source of revenue.

 

Google does mine data from all of its users (as does Facebook, Twitter and every other ad network, including Apple’s iAd). However, that’s not the real problem. The issue on Android is that users have very little control about what data apps have access to, because the entire platform was designed to harvest data for Google without any real regard to user privacy or security.

 

On iOS, Google’s ability to harvest data is much more tightly controlled. That’s a problem for Android because the valuable segments of the smartphone and tablet market are now off limits or tightly restricted by iOS, while Android sits on a large but much less useful market for data collection. 

 

The issue isn’t privacy, but rather the ability of Android to generate enough value for Google to sustain its development. Without iOS, Android makes sense. With iOS taking the valuable segment of the market, Android not only gets less valuable data, but has also triggered the restrictions in iOS that keep Google from accessing data on Apple’s users. 

 

Without Android, Google would likely have remained Apple’s key partner in Maps, Search and other areas. So Android has little positive value for Google and has created significant negative value. This is not even referencing any privacy issues. 

post #97 of 239
Very nice article!

Just a hypothetical question - what will happen to Android if Apple allows OEM very very selected set partners - say Samsung and Sony.

I think Apple should do it ... it will finish of Android in a day.
post #98 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS11 View Post

As of now, not that many.  Micro USB 3.0 is relatively new on mobile devices (tablets and smartphones), but it has been used for quite sometime on portable hard drives.

Lenovo's ThinkPad 8 uses Micro USB 3.0.  Other high-end Windows tablets will also be using the connector.

In the smartphone department, Samsung's Galaxy S5 will be using a micro USB 3.0.clear.gif

Yes, most external hard drives have had that plug for more than a year.

Oh, and yes, HTC makes some interesting and original designs. At least they tried to do something different. But now that they found a design they like with the One, they are sticking with it this year. And yet I've seen no one complain about it on Android forums for the moment. When Apple does the same for every S iteration, people complain too much.

I'm excited to see what kind of new design Jonathan Ive will bring his year.
post #99 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

Without Android, Google would likely have remained Apple’s key partner in Maps, Search and other areas. So Android has little positive value for Google and has created significant negative value. This is not even referencing any privacy issues. 

While that's true, there's also the possibility that Apple could have ended that partnership like they're doing with Corning. Was Google to wait for that possible scenario to happen before making their own platform? By then it would've been too late to gain any type of market share. IMHO they've done a bad job with it, but I understand why they did it. I don't for a second think 'open' was the way to go.
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"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #100 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by jadhvaryu View Post

Very nice article!

Just a hypothetical question - what will happen to Android if Apple allows OEM very very selected set partners - say Samsung and Sony.

I think Apple should do it ... it will finish of Android in a day.

That would be the end of Apple IMO

post #101 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by jadhvaryu View Post

Very nice article!

Just a hypothetical question - what will happen to Android if Apple allows OEM very very selected set partners - say Samsung and Sony.

I think Apple should do it ... it will finish of Android in a day.

So you want to have over 90% market share like MS had with Windows? It wasn't good then, and it wouldn't be good now.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
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post #102 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by hungover View Post

There is an alternative theory, namely that she had been hit on the head by a window frame during a tornado, knocked unconscious and just happened to be having an elaborate dream about characters that just happened to look like members of her extended family.

I shall let you decide which version you would rather believe but if you, or anyone else is interested I am happy to post you magic beans in return for a cow or bitcoins (depending on which is worth more at the time of transaction).  ;-)  

Exactly, the clicking of her heels didn't make her dreams come true it woke her from one.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #103 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

Google does mine data from all of its users (as does Facebook, Twitter and every other ad network, including Apple’s iAd). However, that’s not the real problem. The issue on Android is that users have very little control about what data apps have access to, because the entire platform was designed to harvest data for Google without any real regard to user privacy or security.

See if you can borrow a more recent Android phone from someone.Touch settings, then under "Accounts" find "Google". From there you can turn off Location Reporting, deny access to Location History, opt out of Interest-based Ads, turn off Web History, disable Personal Results, remove Contacts from search results, and disable Google Now. Via Settings even built-in apps can selectively be turned off or your Google Account permissions turned off altogether. Users may have a little more control than you realize.
Edited by Gatorguy - 3/14/14 at 3:30pm
melior diabolus quem scies
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post #104 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

If you read RoughlyDrafted articles from 2004-2010, you’ll find the same sort of caustic contempt from readers just like you who complained the exact same things about Microsoft, and how it wasn’t going to do anything but continue the 1990s into forever. They ended up all being wrong, too.

I merely suggested that if you stay on topic and avoid the long list of unnecessary disparaging remarks, you can criticize Google and Android until your keyboard breaks and come out with a good article that emphasizes weak points while maintaining a degree objectivity. It will go a long way to getting your articles cited by other authors, which will help bring in more clicks and make you feel pretty good too.
post #105 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS11 View Post

HTC has always made some nice devices and brought innovation to the industry, I would have liked for them to be in the top spot.

Even their 2014 HTC One is so much more appealing than Samsung's Galaxy S5.  It has great design and utilizes a chassis made from a single block of aluminium.  The Galaxy S5 looks cheap in comparison.

verizon-all-new-htc-one-2014.jpg?ad983a 

I know a few iPhone people that tried the HTC One and returned them, not because they didn't like the actual device but because HTC's Sense skin was too busy for them. Let the user decide if they want a 'busy' device.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #106 of 239

The Google Witnesses always leaving "Search Tower" converting comments. 

iMac 2007, Macbook pro 2008, Mac Mini 2011
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post #107 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibitzer View Post

"Security isn't a core value for Android. Google's ideological bent toward "openness" precludes real security, forcing vendors like Samsung to tack on cumbersome security diapers like Knox to clean up the embarrassing leaks Google has permitted its hippie star child to roll in because it didn't want to impose too many boundaries."

1biggrin.gif Dilger is reaching new heights in his vivid imagery and turns of phrase! Now that he's dealt with "Number One", I can hardly wait to read his next installment. Can he write a single sentence that includes "Number Two", Android and Depends?

ah yes, apple is more secure because of the whole Security through obscurity tactics...  All The best security researchers agree that security through obscurity/closed platforms is superior.  I mean, it's not like their implementation of SSL was broken for a couple of years or anything...

 

Phil

post #108 of 239
Bla bla bla, doesn't matter what way you spin it, Android is massive and out selling iOS in most of the world.

I am far from an Android fan but its a fact. Its enabled cheap phones with a lot of functionality and that's what a lot of people want. People can point to profit levels and other comparisons but ultimately the guys at Google just want to ship more than Apple and Microsoft. I don't think they overly care how much profit they make. Once your passed a certain level the game is to try and destroy your competitor. And what bigger game could Google currently play than destroying MS in the desktop and Apple in phones.
post #109 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I see Samsung has kept up its “Free paint chips with every purchase” campaign.

I was going to go with "retarded pirate", but the paint chip thing works for me.
post #110 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post
 

 

Google does mine data from all of its users (as does Facebook, Twitter and every other ad network, including Apple’s iAd). However, that’s not the real problem. The issue on Android is that users have very little control about what data apps have access to, because the entire platform was designed to harvest data for Google without any real regard to user privacy or security.

 

On iOS, Google’s ability to harvest data is much more tightly controlled. That’s a problem for Android because the valuable segments of the smartphone and tablet market are now off limits or tightly restricted by iOS, while Android sits on a large but much less useful market for data collection. 

 

The issue isn’t privacy, but rather the ability of Android to generate enough value for Google to sustain its development. Without iOS, Android makes sense. With iOS taking the valuable segment of the market, Android not only gets less valuable data, but has also triggered the restrictions in iOS that keep Google from accessing data on Apple’s users. 

 

Without Android, Google would likely have remained Apple’s key partner in Maps, Search and other areas. So Android has little positive value for Google and has created significant negative value. This is not even referencing any privacy issues. 

indeed. we can all refuse to sign up for the Google ecosystem if we use iOS and its alternative services and options offered on iOS. which means we can all avoid their data mining. now, Google has a very good ecosystem, in various ways the best. like its search vs. the Bing alternative. but we still have a choice if we use iOS.

 

if you buy an official Android product YOU DO NOT HAVE THAT CHOICE.

 

so tell me ... which of these two alternatives - iOS or Android - is really "open" in the most important sense - that we consumers can decide what level of privacy protection we get when we use it?

 

Google's "openness" is a fraud. sucker bait for peripatetic techies.

post #111 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post

Bla bla bla, doesn't matter what way you spin it, Android is massive and out selling iOS in most of the world.

I am far from an Android fan but its a fact. Its enabled cheap phones with a lot of functionality and that's what a lot of people want. People can point to profit levels and other comparisons but ultimately the guys at Google just want to ship more than Apple and Microsoft. I don't think they overly care how much profit they make. Once your passed a certain level the game is to try and destroy your competitor. And what bigger game could Google currently play than destroying MS in the desktop and Apple in phones.

What total nonsense. I'm sure there shareholders feel the same way. I want to invest in a company that doesn't care about profit!!!

post #112 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


See if you can borrow a more recent Android phone from someone.Touch settings, then under "Accounts" find "Google". From there you can turn off Location Reporting, deny access to Location History, opt out of Interest-based Ads, turn off Web History, disable Personal Results, remove Contacts from search results, and disable Google Now. Via Settings even built-in apps can selectively be turned off or your Google Account permissions turned off altogether. Users may have a little more control than you realize.

Could you please point me in the direction of this information. I can't seem to find it. This is all that I find:

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/12/google-removes-vital-privacy-features-android-shortly-after-adding-them

post #113 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splif View Post
 

Could you please point me in the direction of this information. I can't seem to find it. This is all that I find:

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/12/google-removes-vital-privacy-features-android-shortly-after-adding-them

This article discusses the google settings app that Gatorguy seems to be referring to. http://resources.avg.com.au/mobile/check-your-google-settings-for-better-online-privacy/

post #114 of 239

Nice article.

post #115 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post
 

This article discusses the google settings app that Gatorguy seems to be referring to. http://resources.avg.com.au/mobile/check-your-google-settings-for-better-online-privacy/

Thanks. Is there something more in-depth than this?

post #116 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


See if you can borrow a more recent Android phone from someone.Touch settings, then under "Accounts" find "Google". From there you can turn off Location Reporting, deny access to Location History, opt out of Interest-based Ads, turn off Web History, disable Personal Results, remove Contacts from search results, and disable Google Now. Via Settings even built-in apps can selectively be turned off or your Google Account permissions turned off altogether. Users may have a little more control than you realize.

 

In the real world, who bothers with such an effort?

 

Mostly it's just "Agree", with not even a welcome to your new Google + account.

 

So after you've turned all that stuff off can you still access Play or reset your phone without losing your data if the password is entered wrong too many times?

Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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post #117 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


See if you can borrow a more recent Android phone from someone.Touch settings, then under "Accounts" find "Google". From there you can turn off Location Reporting, deny access to Location History, opt out of Interest-based Ads, turn off Web History, disable Personal Results, remove Contacts from search results, and disable Google Now. Via Settings even built-in apps can selectively be turned off or your Google Account permissions turned off altogether. Users may have a little more control than you realize.

yes you can opt out of much of the Google data mining. but never all. 

 

and the right way to protect our privacy is to instead make everything like that opt in. which iOS does nearly all the time.

 

you know damn well Google stacks the deck its way. pretending otherwise is apologia for evil.

post #118 of 239
Very informative article. Draw the Android's users ire you will.
post #119 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post

This article discusses the google settings app that Gatorguy seems to be referring to. http://resources.avg.com.au/mobile/check-your-google-settings-for-better-online-privacy/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splif View Post

Thanks. Is there something more in-depth than this?
There's a more detailed description of the different settings here:
http://www.mobilesecurity.com/articles/552-how-to-manage-privacy-settings-in-android
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

yes you can opt out of much of the Google data mining. but never all. 

and the right way to protect our privacy is to instead make everything like that opt in. which iOS does nearly all the time.
Sounds nice but even on your iDevice there's some tracking and data collection services Apple has gone ahead and opted-in for you. Here's some you might want to turn off or at least be aware of if your privacy is high-priority.
https://www.komando.com/tips/12353/6-privacy-settings-to-change-in-ios-7-now/all
Edited by Gatorguy - 3/15/14 at 4:33am
melior diabolus quem scies
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melior diabolus quem scies
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post #120 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by timichas View Post

The concept behind Android and iOS is fundamentally different. Google released Android into the wild not to make money off of it, but to provide an alternate mobile platform.

Don't tell me Google are working their fingers to the bone for sustaining and trying to grow Android if they didn't even want to make money out of it. Of course, Android itself isn't there for money making, but it does mean that virtually all Android users will have to use Google service, which means millions of more customers.

 

 
...there's no comparative "Google phone" like an iPhone (Nexus devices are close). For this reason alone, trying to compare the two is a futile effort at best.

Google TRIED to best iPhone by acquiring Motorola. It even launched Moto X (Google's attempt at taking iPhone) and Moto G under the 'Moto' moniker but the money was to be piled at the Dont-be-evil headquarters. It is now unanimously agreed that Google can't do hardware, and that it was losing money at a tremendous rate from Motorola, before eventually selling it to Lenovo only very recently.

 

That's like saying I (lazy and incompetent) can blast football legends to kingdom come, only I won't because I don't fancy playing (even though I did play once and lost shamefully).

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