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Sigh... Palm OS 5 vs. Pocket PC

post #1 of 89
Thread Starter 
I guess it's about time I looked at finding a solution to mobile computing that doesn't require me to haul my 5lb iBook around once again.

I need something that'll allow me to compose fairly lengthy e-mails without too much hassle, and perhaps also other documents (Though I'm going to find it hard to give up my current habit of handwriting notes in a notebook and typing them up later).

There're a whole bunch of newfangled devices on the way running either Palm OS 5 or the latest version of Pocket PC - the new Sony Clies, the Palm Tungsten T, the new Compaq iPaqs, ...

Does anyone have any insights on the whole Palm OS 5 vs. Pocket PC thing?

One thing: Synchronization isn't really a concern. To be useful, the device has to function independently.
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post #2 of 89
[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
<strong>I guess it's about time I looked at finding a solution to mobile computing that doesn't require me to haul my 5lb iBook around once again.

I need something that'll allow me to compose fairly lengthy e-mails without too much hassle, and perhaps also other documents (Though I'm going to find it hard to give up my current habit of handwriting notes in a notebook and typing them up later).

There're a whole bunch of newfangled devices on the way running either Palm OS 5 or the latest version of Pocket PC - the new Sony Clies, the Palm Tungsten T, the new Compaq iPaqs, ...

Does anyone have any insights on the whole Palm OS 5 vs. Pocket PC thing?

One thing: Synchronization isn't really a concern. To be useful, the device has to function independently.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I cannot speak about OS5, but I can about PocketPC and iPaqs along with the Clie's & 4.1. I had a Sony Clie' T665 running OS 4.1. The device was extemely well made and beautiful looking. However, it always felt like a really expensive/cute "look at what I got toy". I did not find it any more useful than my cell phone, as I could do everything with it as with my PDA so I sold it. Again, 4.1 was on this guy, don't know about 5. Now the iPaqs are really cool. I know its running M$ but these guys are truley a mobile computing device. True web-browsing, full email clients, wireless ability and bluetooth. If a true mobile device is what you want I would definately go with the iPaq. I use them at work and they are so handy. Its nice to be able to walk into the server farm at work and not have to pull lug around my laptop. Just pull out my iPaq and I can do everything from there. If I were you I would check out Viewsonics new PocketPC V35. This bad little boy runs a new 300 Mhz Intel XScale proc. Just noticed the 400's in the iPaqs. I'm running the 206's and it never skips a beat. I can't imagine a 400.

Come November we will be getting the new Tablet PC's in from HP and will be testing them. If anyone would like I can take some pictures of these guys in action. For that matter I can take some pictures of the iPaqs in action. I'm kinda bored at work.


[ 10-21-2002: Message edited by: trailmaster308 ]</p>
post #3 of 89
I would not go with an iPaq due to its lack of native CF slot. For example, it is very easily for me to plug-n-play a CF LAN 10 Mbit directly into a PocketPC and get an IP via DHCP. Ditto with a 56k modem card, 802.11b card, memory and so on. There are not that many accessories for the SD slot yet.

Viewsonic or Dell are good choices for their price/performance ratio.

As for PalmOS5 vs PocketPC, I would choose PPC. From a pure OS point of view, one runs an OS that has been extensively used and been updated in the last two years. One is a first generation release that adds functionalities that have been available in the other OS (mutli-tasking, DSP, etc.).

I do find synchronization to be very important though. Neither PPC nor Zaurus syncs with OSX. Grrr.
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post #4 of 89
I prefer Palm-devices over PPC-devices for the same reason most people chose a PC over a Mac - they're cheaper and there's more of them out there. Most of my colleagues (95%+) use Palm-devices and it's simply easier to exchange information with them. Unlike computers, it's more important to be seamlessly compatible when you're working with many other people.

So, for my field (medicine), the Palm is the clear winner.

na
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher regard those who think alike than those who think differently." -Nietzsche
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post #5 of 89
I prefer PocketPC. I've had devices with Palm OS (Palm, Clie) and I didn't like them. They are always emulating something (office apps, multimedia). I just find Palm OS to be a bit limiting and boring. For a while the Palm advantage over PocketPC was size and price. Now, PocketPCs are just as small as Palm devices and at the same prices, but offer loads more RAM, power and options.

To bottom line it, if you want a device to simply organize your contacts, to do lists, and calendar, then get a Palm. If you want a PC in your pocket that does everything a palm does with a higher resolution backlit LCD viewing 16k colors, seamless integrating with office files and email, wireless internet, photo, movie, and MP3 playing as well as a tiny gaming device, then get a PocketPC.

ViewSonic is coming out with a sweet one (the V35). It has a backlit trans-reflective stunning display (most have side lit), 300MHz Xscale Processor, 64MB RAM, 32MB (flash) ROM, SD Card Slot, Jog Dial, Directional Pad, PocketPC 2002, Pocket Word, Pocket Excel, Pocket Outlook, Pocket IE, AdvantGo, ClearView (PowerPoint), WMP 8, eBook Reader and so on. You can install ALL additional apps in the SD Card slot (I have about 120 programs loaded on my 128MB SD Card in my soon to be sold iPaq) so the device RAM is left intact to run everything nicely. All of this is a VERY thin and light package (only 4.2oz). Price? $299.

[ 10-21-2002: Message edited by: Patchouli ]</p>
post #6 of 89
I might very well be the most anti-PDA/pad person you could possibly find, but I migh just change my mind.

For me color doesn't matter, as long as the display is sharp and legible in all lighting conditions. What really interests me is voice and battery life. I want to be able to record a few hours at a time (a few dozens of hours actually) in digital format and then archive my voice notes on my computer. Transcription would be a dazzling bonus, but I'm not counting on it to be anything better than yet another techno-tedium for at least another decade. Actually, I don't even want to work that way, I don't want to have to hear myself when I write (if that makes any sense). There are digital voice recorders of course, but their capacity is limited. Ideally a PDA/voice recorder would let me store hundreds of hours of voice notes on my PDA (MP3, audible, whatever) in a database. I'd have clear labels on everything, chapter marks on longer passages, and some written or graphic notes to go along with it. Just a little text/database functionality to organize my voice notes, that's all. Naturally, the built-in mic would have to be a high-quality piece with intelligent noise compensation algorythims, I don't wnat to record a room full of hiss and or shuffling papers, I just want a record of what people said and when they said it.

Des anybody make something like this? I would pay quite a bit for such a device, dare I say, even Jobsian prices...
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post #7 of 89
My Palm III screen seems to be dead. So now I'm in the market for a new PDA.

I have been waiting for the New Apple PDA since Steve Jobs threw the Newton off of the Apple lifeboat. I have been waiting for the arrival of the NAPDA to purchase a new computer (Looking real hard at the 17"iMac). Realistically, I must assume that the NAPDA is not coming. Okay, fine. Lookee here:
I WILL NOT purchase a computer that does not SEEMLESSLY integrate with my next PDA. The Apple/Palm interface is a kluge, a clanking monstrosity compared to the interface between WindowsOS and the damned iPaqs, and it makes me angry as all
G O D
D A M N E D
hell to have to write that, but it is the truth.

The Palm OS/screen combo is dogmeat compared to the iPaq. Palm rested on their laurels, or yankovitch (whatever his name was) was a Microsoft spy and 'held them back'; whatever. The iPaq is a true handheld computer and the Palm (I haven't seen Palm OS 5, but haven't detected any excited 'buzz') is... old and limited.

I keep hearing that the iPaq will synch (currently in a limited fashion) with MacOS X. If the iPaq synching gets to be as full featured and as invisible with MacOS X as it is with Windows, then I'll go with the iPaq and OS X and stick with the Apple platform. If not...

... then I'll continue to use my goddamned clipboard and paper at work and stick with OS X and look enviously at the Windows world with their integrated Desktops, PDAs, Tablets, and (oh yeah) their Apple iPods.

Yours in low blood sugar,
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post #8 of 89
<strong>Originally posted by Belle:
I need something that'll allow me to compose fairly lengthy e-mails without too much hassle, and perhaps also other documents</strong>

I think you're going to be disappointed. All of the devices come with some drawbacks, and input is one of them. Maybe a Blackberry will service your needs.

<strong>There're a whole bunch of newfangled devices on the way running either Palm OS 5 or the latest version of Pocket PC - the new Sony Clies, the Palm Tungsten T, the new Compaq iPaqs, ...

Does anyone have any insights on the whole Palm OS 5 vs. Pocket PC thing?</strong>

Palm OS 5 will lose because Pocket PC has a monopolist behind it? No, I think Palm will retreat to cell phones - maybe - while Pocket PC will take over the handheld computer market. Essentially, Palm OS is way behind the curve in features (and Microsoft support) and isn't going to catch up with Pocket PC in features. Machines just grew into Pocket PC, so it is starting to hit its sweet spot.

As stated prior, I'm a Samsung fan, and the <a href="http://www.samsungelectronics.com/wow/product/product_NEXIO-S160.asp" target="_blank">NEXiO S160</a> could be your ticket.

I'm waiting for the Samsung i500 or i600 myself.
post #9 of 89
Here you go Belle, meet <a href="http://www.alphasmart.com/products/dana_overview.html" target="_blank">Dana</a>
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post #10 of 89
Thread Starter 
Thank you for all the responses.
[quote]Originally posted by trailblazer308:
<strong>If a true mobile device is what you want I would definately go with the iPaq. I use them at work and they are so handy. Its nice to be able to walk into the server farm at work and not have to pull lug around my laptop. Just pull out my iPaq and I can do everything from there.</strong><hr></blockquote>
This is just the kind of testimonial I was looking for. I spend an awful lot of time wandering around our lab, and all over the campus, and can't be bothered to take my laptop with me.
[quote]Originally posted by klinux:
<strong>I would not go with an iPaq due to its lack of native CF slot.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's not really a concern. The upcoming iPaqs apparently have a whole range of networking options available built-in.
[quote]Originally posted by THT:
<strong>I think you're going to be disappointed. All of the devices come with some drawbacks, and input is one of them. Maybe a Blackberry will service your needs.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Oh, I know I'm going to be disappointed. Just read any of my previous posts regarding PDAs and tablet PCs. But honestly, it's got to the point where carrying around a laptop is becoming a pain in the ass.

I will have a look at the Blackberry option, though.
[quote]<strong>Palm OS 5 will lose because Pocket PC has a monopolist behind it?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I have to admit, I've become a lot less of a brand snob, and the manufacturer doesn't bother me at all. I just want whatever suits my needs best. I even prefer my new ThinkPad to my iBook (And my PowerBook G4 before that). I know, it's sacrilege.
[quote]<strong>No, I think Palm will retreat to cell phones - maybe - while Pocket PC will take over the handheld computer market. Essentially, Palm OS is way behind the curve in features (and Microsoft support) and isn't going to catch up with Pocket PC in features. Machines just grew into Pocket PC, so it is starting to hit its sweet spot.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, Handspring certainly seems to think that cell phones are the way to go.
[quote]<strong>As stated prior, I'm a Samsung fan, and the NEXiO S160 could be your ticket.

I'm waiting for the Samsung i500 or i600 myself.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm not sure that it's what I need. I really just want my phone to make calls, and act as a modem if necessary. I'd prefer my palmtop to come with other networking options, such as 802.11. And though the HWR on both Palm and PocketPC machines may not be great, it's going to be quicker than predictive text input on a numerical keypad, right? Right?!
[quote]Originally posted by Matsu:
<strong>Here you go Belle, meet Dana</strong><hr></blockquote>
Oh dear gods, that's horrible. It's also 2lbs, and if I'm going to carry that around, I'd rather splurge on <a href="http://www.sonystyle.com/home/item.jsp?hierc=9683x7018x9032&catid=9032&itemid=44 421&viewall=true" target="_blank">this</a>. Or <a href="http://www.transmetazone.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=1067" target="_blank">this</a>!

[ 10-22-2002: Message edited by: Belle ]</p>
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post #11 of 89
Belle,

I was actually in the same dilemma as you. I've been looking/waiting for something to replace my trusty newt (which I sold after decided to get rid of classic). I saw the first Palm OS 5 devices and I'm STILL not impressed. So I took the plunge and got a PPC.

I got the Toshiba e740. Nice little machine. Built in 802.11b, 64megs of RAM, 32 of ROM. 400mhz XScale proc. It all sounds very impressive, but it's still not that great. PPC applications are larger than Palm ones. They run slower too. Even on a '400mhz' proc. They're more expensive, there's less of it. And syncing is a pain.

I know you say that syncing is not a primary concern, but you need to connect to the computer to install many apps. Some, you can just download and that's cool, but other require you to sync to install them. Also, if there's ever a ROM update (like there will be shortly for PPC 2002), you've got to have a reliable connection. I'm using VPC to sync and I thought that was the reason I was having problems, but I found <a href="http://discussion.brighthand.com" target="_blank">http://discussion.brighthand.com</a> and realized it wasn't because VPC sucks donkey balls. ActiveSync does. (Though VPC does it share of equine fellatio.)

All in all, I'm pretty happy with the PPC but only because it's all that's out there. Check out the brighthand.com forums. It's pretty active over there. HTH.
post #12 of 89
Having used a Palm and a Pocket PC before, I went for the Palm which I found more simple to use versus the Pocket PC which while better than my Windows CE device was still a pain in the but to use. I didnt find multimedia that great (I'd rather watch on a desktop) and battery life was disappointing... but the games were great and hard to give up. For email, I recommend a Tmobile Sidekick (Danger Hiptop). It's great and tiny and has a good battery life. Don't pick a device based on a bunch of fanatics. Figure out what you will do on a pda the most, and buy the PDA that is strongest in that area.
post #13 of 89
I like the PalmOS because I can concentrate on the task at hand. With WinCE it seems that you have to worry about the OS as well as the apps. (Sounds familiar?)

The battery life is also a heck of a lot better in Palm devices, but then you don't get as many bells and whistles (which aren't important to me)

Most of us at work use PalmOS PDAs. One department decided to go with iPAQs, 2 weeks later they returned them and got Palms and we have yet to hear a negative comment from them. They didn't like the bulk of the iPAQ, the OS and the poor battery life.

So think of what's important for you and go with that.
post #14 of 89
at work, all execs were given palms a few years back, so they could be reached via email (and send email) all the time (they'd been granted cells a few years earlier, and prolly beepers b4 that; basically the company keeps up with the kewl gadgets). now they've been given blackberries. and my aunt (one of the execs at the co.) loves it. its got a keyboard. and its fits into ur pocket (or the holster). it doesn't weigh too much nor waste energy on a stupid ms "mini" os. if u dont need all the extra shit on ppc or palm, dont get it. blackberries are definitely cool; ppcs are not.

the co. bought a ipaq for the IS dept to play with and see how useful it'd be as a blackberry replacement. it weighs a metric ton, and could barely fit into my chest cavity. the guy who gets to play with it likes it, cuz he plays games during meetings and shit, but u can do that with any handheld.
post #15 of 89
[quote]Originally posted by torifile:
<strong>Belle,

I was actually in the same dilemma as you. I've been looking/waiting for something to replace my trusty newt (which I sold after decided to get rid of classic).</strong><hr></blockquote>

hey torifile, you can sync the newton in OS 10. even native. I don't have to start classic and he even syncs with my adress book. impressive for dead technology, no ?
post #16 of 89
[quote]Originally posted by Defiant:
<strong>

hey torifile, you can sync the newton in OS 10. even native. I don't have to start classic and he even syncs with my adress book. impressive for dead technology, no ?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Of course this would finally happen AFTER I decide to send my newt to Switzerland. Stupid luck, I've got. I'm glad it's working out for you.

On another note, I finally got my PPC to sync via Airport. It seems all the connection problems people have are related to using USB and over Airport it works fine and reliably. Mark that off my list of complaints. Of course, VPC still sucks.
post #17 of 89
I don't see it Belle. The Dana is only 399 (compared to 2000+ for the subnotes you describe. It will beat the snot out of any PDA for any kind of lenghty writing/data entry. It has 3X the width of a Palm display. Has USB and two MMC/SDcard slots (if you require bluetooth/802.11, SDcard modules are out there or comming for PalmOS4.1). It runs Palm OS4.1, can use regular AA batteries, has huge battery life, and is supposed to be virtually indestructible. No docking, just plug in USB. It has a full word processor and Office file compatibility, it reads mail, has palm reader, prints directly to USB or irDA printers.

So it's huge and ugly, but it works.
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post #18 of 89
[quote]Originally posted by torifile:

Of course this would finally happen AFTER I decide to send my newt to Switzerland. Stupid luck, I've got. I'm glad it's working out for you.

On another note, I finally got my PPC to sync via Airport. It seems all the connection problems people have are related to using USB and over Airport it works fine and reliably.<hr></blockquote>

you know, newTen, the app I use for transfering packages to my newt is available since some time... and nSync beta, the app for syncing with the adress book since some days. and, I can sync my newton also over airport with my mac.

and even a VNC connection is possible...
newton dead ? dream on !

[ 10-23-2002: Message edited by: Defiant ]</p>
post #19 of 89
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by Matsu:
<strong>I don't see it Belle.

...

So it's huge and ugly, but it works.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I just feel that, given cost isn't an issue, I'd rather carry around a full-blown 2lb laptop than a 21b Palm.

Part of my concern over the Dana is that, having owned a Visor for a while, I hate Palm OS. That is, in part, why I started the thread - to see if the shiny new Palm OS 5 offered any radical improvements over the current versions.

I didn't mean to seem ungrateful for the link.
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post #20 of 89
I'm still waiting for (high quality and high storage capacity) voice recording (possibly with limited dictation abilities) in a cheap PDA package that will easily transfer my voice files to PC for archiving.

It seems to me that an iPod with a MIC would be perfect for this, but Apple doen't make one
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post #21 of 89
How about the sidekick?

<a href="http://www.hiptop.com/" target="_blank">http://www.hiptop.com/</a>

it offers internet, email, AIM, is a handy phone, and one of the best thumb keyboards I have ever used. I recently used one at a store and was quite impressed. It's $200 not including a monthly phone plan but consider it killing 2 birds with one stone.
post #22 of 89
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by Outsider:
<strong>How about the sidekick?</strong><hr></blockquote>
The Hiptop is definitely a communicator rather than a palmtop computer, though. It's certainly interesting, but I'd like something a little more flexible.

On a related note - considering the Hiptop is being targeted at cell phone toting teenagers, it seems criminal that it doesn't support SMS text messaging. AIM is fine, but I guess a lot of your friends will still be using SMS on their cells.
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post #23 of 89
[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
<strong>
The Hiptop is definitely a communicator rather than a palmtop computer, though. It's certainly interesting, but I'd like something a little more flexible.

On a related note - considering the Hiptop is being targeted at cell phone toting teenagers, it seems criminal that it doesn't support SMS text messaging. AIM is fine, but I guess a lot of your friends will still be using SMS on their cells.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Oh but it does. If you look through their Flash presentation, click on the AIM button and roll you mouse over the last point on the lower left hand corner it says: Send and Receive SMS messages.

And also the only thing the blackberry has over it is a bigger price and the ability to sync with your desktop (and Exchange).

[ 10-23-2002: Message edited by: Outsider ]</p>
post #24 of 89
As someone who has set up dozens of Blackberries in a corporate environment, I can safely say that they are over priced crap.
post #25 of 89
[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
<strong>I even prefer my new ThinkPad to my iBook (And my PowerBook G4 before that). I know, it's sacrilege.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Ah, Belle. But what about the Operating System? Hardware is important but not everything. Whenever I'm about ready to buy some nice Wintel subnotebook, I remember that I won't be able to run OS X and all of my favorite Mac apps.

[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
<strong>Oh dear gods, that's horrible. It's also 2lbs, and if I'm going to carry that around, I'd rather splurge on <a href="http://www.sonystyle.com/home/item.jsp?hierc=9683x7018x9032&catid=9032&itemid=44 421&viewall=true" target="_blank">this</a>. Or <a href="http://www.transmetazone.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=1067" target="_blank">this</a>!</strong><hr></blockquote>

Me likey! I love my iBook dearly, but as many of you know I'm still itching for something significantly lighter. I honestly think that a Sony Picturebook (or even the 3 lbs SRX) or the Toshiba Libretto L5/080TNKW (the one with built-in WiFi) would be significantly better than a PocketPC. Whenever I crave a PDA more powerful than my Palm, and think about a Pocket PC, I realize that I do not want to run anything but the full-blown version of any particular app. Of course, that may be different in your case.

Belle, the bottom line is this: Can you really live (or at least work) without a real keyboard? I know I couldn't.

Escher

[ 10-23-2002: Message edited by: Escher ]</p>
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Until we get a 3 lbs sub-PowerBook, the 12-inch PowerBook will do.
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Until we get a 3 lbs sub-PowerBook, the 12-inch PowerBook will do.
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post #26 of 89
I don't think that it's the hardware Belle prefers, rather the way the software works, especially for e-mail (if that's your pref Belle)

With a little tweaking you can minimize your interaction with Windows. Once you get down to the apps you use, it really makes no difference what platform you're on. Add to that some of the typical FUD, which is not as mac users like to pretend 100% fiction -- there are quite a few aspects of mac ownership that can be a pain in the a$$ -- and Windows doesn't automatically disqualify thinkpads in the least. Having used thinkpads I've found them to be sturdy, fast, cool, have good battery life, even with such things as P4M's inside. Expensive, but good.
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post #27 of 89
I hear ebay still has quite a fe of these:

post #28 of 89
Are they in good working order? Point me there, I'll take one just for the heck of it, that is if they're cheap enough to muck around with. No more than 150 for a dead platform, maxx.
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post #29 of 89
Thread Starter 
This is the thing, I guess. At one time I was interested in the intricacies of the software, did a little coding and such. But now, to be honest, my role at work is much less hands-on in that respect, and at home I just don't play around with the OS or anything anymore.

I write stuff in Word, I do my e-mail, I browse a little. I burn CDs. Pretty much the only obvious interaction I have with the OS is saving and loading files, all of which I can organize through dialogs.

Beyond this, I need to transfer photos from my digital camera (Which is, despite what Janie Porche says, a piece of cake), and manage my iPod (Which is now possible, though I have to say <a href="http://www.nomadworld.com/products/jukebox_zen/" target="_blank">this</a> looks interesting).

The software really doesn't matter. I actually much prefer Word for Windows to the Mac version. An e-mail app is an e-mail app. And Eudora is available for both OSes.

And though it's perhaps a personal feeling, Word seems so much more responsive on my assistant's 800MHz PIII than it ever does under OS X, no matter what the hardware.

I feel terribly sad to have to say this, but looking at palmtops has also made me realize one of the biggest issues that still exists with the Mac: I'd have to make my choice of palmtop with respect to the software available for Mac. I know that Palm and Handspring provide Mac software. Other than that, if I want a Clie or Toshiba or iPaq, I'm going to run into trouble.

My only hope is that Apple is working incredibly hard on ensuring maximum coverage with iSync (Fingers crossed!).

So it comes down to the hardware, and Apple just doesn't make the hardware that suits my current needs.

Anyway, all a little off-topic.

Did I hear right that both Palm and Compaq are introducing the new Tungstens/iPaqs October 28?
[quote]Originally posted by Escher:
<strong>Belle, the bottom line is this: Can you really live (or at least work) without a real keyboard? I know I couldn't.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Sigh. Probably not, Escher. As I said, I started this thread in the hope the the new generation of palmtops might offer something a little more usable.

I'm going to be in Tokyo for a conference in December, health willing, and it's going to be very hard to keep my Visa (It's got a mind of its own, you know) buying me a PictureBook or Libretto. <a href="http://www.vaio.sony.co.jp/Products/PCG-C1MZX/" target="_blank">This</a> page makes me giddy.

[ 10-24-2002: Message edited by: Belle ]</p>
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post #30 of 89
[quote]Originally posted by torifile:
<strong>...They run slower too. Even on a '400mhz' proc....
</strong><hr></blockquote>

I seem to recall reading a few months back that MS didn't/isn't going to tune PocketPC to take advantage of the 400MHZ. I'll try to dig it up if I have the time.

(tig)

&lt;edit&gt;
Found two references on ZDNet - <a href="http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103-939365.html" target="_blank">here</a>, and <a href="http://www.zdnet.com.au/reviews/coolgear/pda/story/0,2000023548,20266753,00.htm" target="_blank">here</a>. I'd imagine that there's more specific info out there than this, but it's a start, eh?
&lt;/edit&gt;

[ 10-24-2002: Message edited by: The Grimace ]</p>
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post #31 of 89
[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
<strong>But now, to be honest, my role at work is much less hands-on in that respect, and at home I just don't play around with the OS or anything anymore.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I guess we all have to grow up sooner or later and realize that getting work done is more important than playing with any OS.

[quote]Originally posted by Matsu:
<strong>I don't think that it's the hardware Belle prefers, rather the way the software works, especially for e-mail (if that's your pref Belle).

With a little tweaking you can minimize your interaction with Windows. Once you get down to the apps you use, it really makes no difference what platform you're on.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Matsu makes a good point here. In the end we just want to get things done. As long as the OS doesn't get in the way too much, it is the apps that get things done for us.

[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
<strong>I write stuff in Word, I do my e-mail, I browse a little. I burn CDs. Pretty much the only obvious interaction I have with the OS is saving and loading files, all of which I can organize through dialogs.

I actually much prefer Word for Windows to the Mac version. An e-mail app is an e-mail app. And Eudora is available for both OSes. </strong><hr></blockquote>

I had completely forgotten that Eudora is available for Windows as well. That would certainly make any migration in my house much easier.

[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
<strong>looking at palmtops has also made me realize one of the biggest issues that still exists with the Mac: I'd have to make my choice of palmtop with respect to the software available for Mac... So it comes down to the hardware, and Apple just doesn't make the hardware that suits my current needs.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I guess I've just adjusted my current needs (i.e. small, light and long battery life, but no OS junior) so that I can keep using Mac OS on my iBook. If I didn't have to switch operating systems, I would really like a notebook that is half the iBook's weight.

On the hardware end, it still bothers me that all tiny Wintel subnotebooks (e.g. Picturebook) don't have any good built-in ports. I don't mind an external optical drive. But I do mind external port replicators. Built-in WiFi may change that in the medium term. But in the short term, I still want to be able to hook into an Ethernet network or dial-up via modem on the road.

[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
<strong>Sigh. Probably not, Escher. As I said, I started this thread in the hope the the new generation of palmtops might offer something a little more usable.

I'm going to be in Tokyo for a conference in December, health willing, and it's going to be very hard to keep my Visa (It's got a mind of its own, you know) buying me a PictureBook or Libretto. <a href="http://www.vaio.sony.co.jp/Products/PCG-C1MZX/" target="_blank">This</a> page makes me giddy. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Belle: We've know this for a long time. There's no way around the keyboard in the near future. I don't see a viable alternative to the traditional keyboard anywhere. Considering that you need to carry your iBook along with you at least part, if not most, of the time, I have no doubt that a Picturebook, Libretto or similar 2 lbs subnotebook is the right choice for you. Do I read correctly that the PCG-C1MZX that you linked to comes with a DVD burner, aka SuperDrive? I hope your health concerns are not serious. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" /> I wish you good health in any case.

Escher

[ 10-24-2002: Message edited by: Escher ]</p>
"The only laptop computer that's useful is the one you have with you."
Until we get a 3 lbs sub-PowerBook, the 12-inch PowerBook will do.
Reply
"The only laptop computer that's useful is the one you have with you."
Until we get a 3 lbs sub-PowerBook, the 12-inch PowerBook will do.
Reply
post #32 of 89
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by Escher:
<strong>I guess we all have to grow up sooner or later and realize that getting work done is more important than playing with any OS.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Bah. Growing up. It's true, though. It's really all about productivity.
[quote]<strong>On the hardware end, it still bothers me that all tiny Wintel subnotebooks (e.g. Picturebook) don't have any good built-in ports. I don't mind an external optical drive. But I do mind external port replicators. Built-in WiFi may change that in the medium term. But in the short term, I still want to be able to hook into an Ethernet network or dial-up via modem on the road.</strong><hr></blockquote>
This is the biggest issue. Ideally, I'd like USB, modem, ethernet, some kind of video-out, audio-out, a microphone, Bluetooth, 802.11b, and a PCMCIA slot.

I don't think any of the current subs offer this combination. The PictureBook has ethernet, but requires the replicator to use it, though the external optical drive is FireWire, leaving the PCMCIA slot free for one of the new Bluetooth/802.11b combo cards. The Libretto only has an external USB CD-ROM option.

The battery life on the PictureBook is abysmal (1.0-2.5 hours, according to the specs), so you need one of those ugly, heavy external things.

Damn, I'm sure Apple could do such a good job of making one of these things.
[quote]<strong>Belle: We've know this for a long time. There's no way around the keyboard in the near future. I don't see a viable alternative to the traditional keyboard anywhere. Considering that you need to carry your iBook along with you at least part, if not most, of the time, I have no doubt that a Picturebook, Libretto or similar 2 lbs subnotebook is the right choice for you. Do I read correctly that the PCG-C1MZX that you linked to comes with a DVD burner, aka SuperDrive? I hope your health concerns are not serious. I wish you good health in any case.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I guess this is the case. I'll have to go and play with the new Palms and iPaqs when they arrive, see if I can use them. Anyone know where I can go to meet one of the new Librettos in person?

And yeah, you can get an external DVD-R, though I'm not certain the PictureBook is the ideal video-editing machine. I'll still be sticking with an Apple video-editing machine, I love Final Cut Pro too much to leave it.

The health thing is fine. I'm currently in remission, but need my interval between transfusions of blood and platelets to be a little longer so I can get away. It's currently around 2-3 days. I'm also to get breathing tests, because radiotherapy reduces lung capacity, and it's a concern on long haul flights, apparently.
Chicanery.
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post #33 of 89
My 2.8 pound and under and inch thick PC sub notebook (Dell X200) has plenty of ports. On the left side I have:

1 PCMCIA Slot (unused)
A/C Connector
1 FireWire (powered) with bootable FireWire CD Rom Drive
1 USB
Mic Jack
HeadPhone Jack
Internal Ethernet Port
Internal 56K Modem port

On the right side there is:

1 USB
1 VGA Out Port

...in addition to that, I have a built in Mini PCI card with 802.11 Wireless (the internal antenna wraps all around the inside of the display bezel for optimum reception. I also have the new fast (and extremely quiet) 5400rpm 40GB notebook hardrive.

There are no cards sticking out of my PCMCIA slot!
post #34 of 89
[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
<strong>The health thing is fine. I'm currently in remission, but need my interval between transfusions of blood and platelets to be a little longer so I can get away. It's currently around 2-3 days. I'm also to get breathing tests, because radiotherapy reduces lung capacity, and it's a concern on long haul flights, apparently.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Wow! Belle. You are obviously a strong character, which has undoubtedly helped you to get back up to where you are. Does your cancer predate your move East? At least NYC has some excellent medical professionals and facilities. Not to mention some great electronics shopping. I hope you are stable enough to make it to Tokyo.

[quote]Originally posted by Patchouli:
<strong>My 2.8 pound and under and inch thick PC sub notebook (Dell X200) has plenty of ports.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Patchouli: I hate to admit it, but that Dell X200 sounds absolutely perfect. If only Jobs was willing to follow Dell for a change. But only in the subnotebook arena. I'm having that "it's time to assimilate and go Wintel" feeling again.

Escher
"The only laptop computer that's useful is the one you have with you."
Until we get a 3 lbs sub-PowerBook, the 12-inch PowerBook will do.
Reply
"The only laptop computer that's useful is the one you have with you."
Until we get a 3 lbs sub-PowerBook, the 12-inch PowerBook will do.
Reply
post #35 of 89
Yes Escher, I am actually extremely pleased with it. Considering it only cost $1800 shipped, I think it's a nice little package. It's fast and very stable. I haven't had a bomb or a crash since I got it (thanks to XP Pro). All of my (12) USB and FireWire devices plug into it with no problems and no headache. It's so lightweight and has really good wireless range. Anywhere is my house has either 'very good' to 'excellent' reception to the access point.

One of the things I love the most is that it is an extremely quiet notebook. Like I said, the HD is silent and the internal cooling fan is also silent. You feel the breeze coming out of the side air vent when it's on, but you don't hear it!

Actually, Samsung made this model for Dell. The entire thing was made by Samsung (so it of course has a brilliant Samsung display). The only thing Dell did was change some cosmetic features (to magnesium alloy) with the unit and the matching silver accessories and put their brand and support on it.

But I am with you, I'd kill for an Apple ultra light. I've been wanting one since the TiBook was launched. Basically, I want them to just take the TiBook and shrink it!

[ 10-24-2002: Message edited by: Patchouli ]</p>
post #36 of 89
[quote]Originally posted by Patchouli:
<strong>Yes Escher, I am actually extremely pleased with it. Considering it only cost $1800 shipped, I think it's a nice little package... I am with you, I'd kill for an Apple ultra light. I've been wanting one since the TiBook was launched. Basically, I want them to just take the TiBook and shrink it!</strong><hr></blockquote>

That X200 really is reasonably affordable and certainly very versatile. I guess I'd have to get used to the little "nipple" pointer. How's the battery life? I suspect that's one point where the iBook would win hands down.

The iBook (dual USB) barely saved me from going Wintel. I'm curious to see what will be available when it's time to replace it. I certainly would love an X200-sized TiBook. I know Apple could do it even better, if only they would.

Finally, I apologize for turning this Palm OS 5 vs. Pocket PC thread into a subnotebook thread. I just can't help it.

Escher

[ 10-24-2002: Message edited by: Escher ]</p>
"The only laptop computer that's useful is the one you have with you."
Until we get a 3 lbs sub-PowerBook, the 12-inch PowerBook will do.
Reply
"The only laptop computer that's useful is the one you have with you."
Until we get a 3 lbs sub-PowerBook, the 12-inch PowerBook will do.
Reply
post #37 of 89
The standard battery lasts for about 2 hours. Not that great due to the wireless activity but fine for in the house. I got the extended battery for when I am on the go which replaces the standard one. When you take out the standard one, you pop the extended one into the same slot. It adds a flush 1" length and is the same height and color/design as the notebook. Nothing bulky or odd looking sticking out. It's an excellent design and it doesn't add bulk in either direction or significant weight. This battery lasts a nice 5 hours with wireless activity and full processor speed. Dell uses Rapid Charge batteries so it takes about 1-1.5 hours to re-charge. I would have never had gotten it had they used those horrible extended batteries that so many other PC Makers offer.
post #38 of 89
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by Patchouli:
<strong>My 2.8 pound and under and inch thick PC sub notebook (Dell X200) has plenty of ports. </strong><hr></blockquote>
The Dell certainly looks like a nice sub-notebook. My only objection, and I know I'm being fussy, is the size. I'm looking for something smaller as well as lighter, which is one reason I'm looking at palmtops. Still a really nice machine, though. How does it feel? A lot of the larger Dell laptops feel a little flimsy and jerrybuilt.
[quote]Originally posted by Escher:
<strong>Wow! Belle. You are obviously a strong character, which has undoubtedly helped you to get back up to where you are. Does your cancer predate your move East? At least NYC has some excellent medical professionals and facilities. Not to mention some great electronics shopping. I hope you are stable enough to make it to Tokyo.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Not really, Escher. I think if I'm honest (and listened to my friends) I get on with my work so I can ignore my illness. If I stopped and sat and thought about things for any length of time, I'd probably fall apart. I started feeling ill before I moved to NYC, but wasn't diagnosed until December. And I can't praise those who've treated me enough. They've been truly wonderful.
[quote]<strong>Finally, I apologize for turning this Palm OS 5 vs. Pocket PC thread into a subnotebook thread. I just can't help it.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think the thread was doomed the moment I posted it.
Chicanery.
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post #39 of 89
Well Belle,

Here is some Palm OS 5 info:

<a href="http://palm.com/products/handhelds/tungsten-t/" target="_blank">Palm Tungsten-T</a>



They also have a phone version, but has a Treo-like keypad.
post #40 of 89
Thread Starter 
Thank you, THT. The wireless version is <a href="http://palm.com/products/handhelds/tungsten-w/" target="_blank">here</a>.

From what I can see, Palm OS 5 doesn't offer any radical usability improvements over older versions of the OS.

<a href="http://www.infosync.com" target="_blank">infoSync</a>'s review of the Tungsten T suggests that we won't see the really interesting stuff PalmSource has been working on until version 5.5 or 6. Hmm.

I wonder if any major Pocket PC updates are on the way? I played around with a couple of devices on Saturday, and wasn't too impressed.
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