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Palm's new "Tungsten T" Series:

post #1 of 23
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Finally, a competitor for the iPaq, etc!

<a href="http://www.palm.com" target="_blank">http://www.palm.com</a>
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post #2 of 23
Sexy.

Perhaps i'll (finally) get a PDA.
post #3 of 23
Certainly looks interesting, but I wish Palm OS 5 brought some improvements to Graffiti. "<a href="http://www.palm.com/solutions/personal/docstogo/" target="_blank">Documents To Go</a>" seems useful, too. Does anyone have any experience with this app?

I'll wait to see the new iPaq H5000s, then decide whether or not a PDA is something I need right now.
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post #4 of 23
the convergence of 'palmtop' and 'mobile phone' is the future. Palm is doomed to just be 'another' vendor of mobile phones with an organizer. Seriously, eventhough the Palm W thing is a step in the right direction, its too little too late I think. We shall see how it fares with the other heavyweights
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post #5 of 23
Am I the only one that feels completely ridiculous holding up somethingl ike a Handspring Treo to my ear and talking into it? It's how most Palm based phones feel; they're too big and clumsy to make me want to use them as a cell phone. I'm not sure that the entire PDA market will turn into a mobile phone, and that the mobile phone market will turn into a hybrid PDA.

For starters, cell phones are getting smaller, and people like this. Ergo the screen on the phone is tiny. I don't want to stare at a calendar on that thing. And if the screen is as big as a palm, well, I don't want to talk into that thing. I just don't see this happening, but, whatever

Take a look at the new Sony NX series of Palms. They're quite nice...
post #6 of 23
For this very reason, I think I'd rather go for the unconnected PDA with Bluetooth + small cell phone with Bluetooth approach.

Then you can e-mail from your PDA while your tiny cell phone stays safe and sound in your pocket.
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post #7 of 23
Those are some very good points. Personally, I feel that current PDA's are a mite too small. While they go everywhere, there screens are just a little too tiny for my taste, and if they really weant to do something more useful than glorified PIM, they'll need a bigger display. While I don't think the tablet as a notebook replacement or moveable display is a particularly usefull or well conceived idea, a SMALL tablet of sorts, something NEARLY a PDA would be just about right.

About the size of a DVD jewel case, which incedentally is about the footprint of a trade-paperback, or about A5 size, makes for the ideal comprimise between readability and luggability. With a high-def and high contrast screen and a slim profile this device could use PDA level OS and hardware to display files from your network and run it's own standalone apps.

PDA's and subnotes on one end, PIM's and phones on the other.
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post #8 of 23
Come to think of it, some cell phones are getting a tad too small too. Ever try punching in a phone number on those tiny buttons?

I still think the future is in voice recognition. It's available on many phones now, but they don't necessarily work that well.

But I'm all for separate devices. A simple slim slab and buttonless phone that's simply voice activated. The sleekness of this type of phone can easily slide into a to a larger PDA or tablet like device. That way, you're still carrying "one" item around all day.
post #9 of 23
That thing is no competitor for the iPaq, I'm sorry. Palm devices are really going nowhere fast. Networking ability is next to non-existent on that end. As long as that's the case, they will continue to be companions to real computers while PocketPC's continue to make inroads as portable replacements. I was skeptical of the whole pocketpc thing until I actually GOT one and used it for a couple weeks. It's good enough that I've thought SERIOUSLY about selling my Ti and getting a desktop (more power, less price). The palm? meh. not that great and as much as a pocketpc. And graffiti? When will it go away?
post #10 of 23
<strong>Originally posted by M3D Jack:
Am I the only one that feels completely ridiculous holding up somethingl ike a Handspring Treo to my ear and talking into it?</strong>

Oh, you're not alone in feeling that way. If a pda phone isn't 2.25" or less in width, I'm not buying it.

<strong>It's how most Palm based phones feel; they're too big and clumsy to make me want to use them as a cell phone.</strong>

Here's what I'm waiting for:

<a href="http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=4047" target="_blank">Samsung i500</a>



[ 10-28-2002: Message edited by: THT ]</p>
post #11 of 23
Looks cool, but still looks too small to be useful as a PDA. I don't understand the fascination with wanting to combine the two. I guess we need to re-examine the purpose and expectations of said devices, and it sounds like the only company that has done that recently is Danger with their hip top device.

I mean, it seems like every company coming out with such devices now are either taking a phone and trying to shove a Palm into it (Like the pic above), or they're taking a palm and trying to shove a phone into it (like the Treo or the new Palm phone).

Personally, I've never wanted my PDA to ring; I don't want to have to stop to answer my PDA. And you could argue that it is a phone first and PDA second.... but not when you make a Palm based phone. The Palm OS is an operating system designed to do a variety of PIM functions AND more... and making and receiving phone calls wasn't really planned at any point. I mean, the Palm interface doesn't make a very elegant one for a telephone.

My solution? Scrap the idea of WinCE and Palm OS as platforms for a PIM inside of a mobile phone. Neither OS was designed for it, and it's like trying to put a medium format lens on a 35mm camera; why carry around the extra bulk? Of course the problem becomes compatability, and Palm and WinCE both talk to desktops already... still, I'm not sold on this idea....
post #12 of 23
I think someone needs to explain to Palm that when your entry level organizer is priced at $99.. the next price point is around $299 NOT $499! <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />

BTW, how can 2 mods and an administrator post in this thread and not move it to Digital Hub? Just Asking...

[ 10-29-2002: Message edited by: Frank777 ]</p>
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post #13 of 23
[quote]Originally posted by Matsu:
<strong>(...)or well conceived idea, a SMALL tablet of sorts, something NEARLY a PDA would be just about right.

About the size of a DVD jewel case, which incedentally is about the footprint of a trade-paperback, or about A5 size, makes for the ideal comprimise between readability and luggability.</strong><hr></blockquote>

like the newton ?
post #14 of 23
I own three Newtons, and I always thought all three of them were too big. I think all of the various Palm based models fill the PDA gap rather nicely. It's a somewhat personal device, so Palm has its new overpriced Tungstens which are fairly small... but then Sony has their terribly sexy NX series...





The thing is 5.5" high, 2 7/8" wide, and is 11/16 of an inch deep. Screen is 320x480 at thousands of colors. It includes a keyboard, which can be hidden, and a virtual graffiti area. Personally, I think it is the best Palm device out. Bigger screen, virtual graffiti, tiny keyboard built-in, screen folds out and pivots. I mean, it's *worth* the $499

This is my idea of a handheld....
post #15 of 23
[quote]Originally posted by Defiant:
<strong>

like the newton ?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Except, that at the size, my ideal device would have at least 90% screen coverage.
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post #16 of 23
[quote]Originally posted by Frank777:
<strong>BTW, how can 2 mods and an administrator post in this thread and not move it to Digital Hub? Just Asking... </strong><hr></blockquote>
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

I'm not the best person to answer, I think I've been a little inconsistent in my approach to PDA threads.

I thought this should stay in General Discussion because it was about the PDA industry in general, rather than how PDAs relate to Macs and the iApps. I did, however, start my own thread about Palm in Digital Hub.

I'll leave the final decision to Bodhi or murbot.

[ 10-29-2002: Message edited by: Belle ]</p>
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post #17 of 23
<strong>Originally posted by M3D Jack:
Looks cool, but still looks too small to be useful as a PDA. I don't understand the fascination with wanting to combine the two.</strong>

Personally, it's about convenience. I want one of my trouser pockets back! I carry around a Palm IIIxe and a Samsung N200 around. It's not fun. And quite possibly in the future, an iPod or AM/FM tuner.

I don't need a handheld computer, but I do need a a calender, contacts, and notetaking. Maybe some games. I use about 2000 minutes on my cell phone, so I would prefer a cell phone form factor than a PDA one.

<strong>My solution? Scrap the idea of WinCE and Palm OS as platforms for a PIM inside of a mobile phone. </strong>

Sure, I'd agree with you there. Most of the handheld and phone operating systems and UI suck pretty bad.
post #18 of 23
It'll be interesting to see if the new hardware has any impact on <a href="http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,106463,00.asp" target="_blank">this</a> trend.

Pocket PC Phone Edition has some interesting features that'll work just fine with a cell phone. I guess that if you're wandering around talking on your phone, you can just use a headset and keep the big ass PDA in your pocket. If you're sitting at a desk, you can work on the device and talk with a headset or handsfree (Something that needs to be in more cell phones).
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post #19 of 23
-&gt; dh.
post #20 of 23
<strong>Originally posted by Belle:
It'll be interesting to see if the new hardware has any impact on <a href="http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,106463,00.asp" target="_blank">this</a> trend.</strong>

I really don't think so. It sort of like in the movie, The Matrix, Neo is in a headlock on the subway tracks and the train horn sounds, and the AI says, "Do you know what that sound is, Mr. Anderson? That is the sound of inevitability." And in this movie Palm isn't a savior figure, just a putz waiting to be squashed.

I am however on an anti-Microsoft campaign and will refuse to use Microsoft items in all possible situations, so I probably won't be buying a WinCE phone or PDA in the future, however tempting. As for Palm, they don't have the infrastructure to sell products that MS has. They don't have a Dell or HP hawking their wares. They don't have a monopolist product like Office which includes the super important Outlook email to leverage off of. So at least for PDA's, I think their days are numbered.

<strong>I guess that if you're wandering around talking on your phone, you can just use a headset and keep the big ass PDA in your pocket. If you're sitting at a desk, you can work on the device and talk with a headset or handsfree (Something that needs to be in more cell phones).</strong>

But that's the problem. I don't want to be carrying yet another item, a headset, around with me. In fact, when I'm at my desk, both my cell phone and PDA lay on my desk. Heck I'm waiting for an electronic device to replace my wallet!
post #21 of 23
PDA and cellphone convergence will not happen until the prices come down out of the stratosphere (i was at business depot here in toronto, where the treo 180 is going for CAN$799. WTF?!?!? i can get a decent cell phone for CAN$100, and a cable to attach it to my visor edge. elegant? no. but dear god, i'm not MADE of money.
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post #22 of 23
[quote]Originally posted by Jonathan:
<strong>-&gt; dh.</strong><hr></blockquote>
...or Jonathan...
[quote]Originally posted by THT:
<strong>I really don't think so. It sort of like in the movie, The Matrix, Neo is in a headlock on the subway tracks and the train horn sounds, and the AI says, "Do you know what that sound is, Mr. Anderson? That is the sound of inevitability." And in this movie Palm isn't a savior figure, just a putz waiting to be squashed.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hehe. Sad, but probably true. The thing is, I notionally like Palm. Its hardware is always of a decent quality, and Palm OS has a consistency, neatness, and obviousness that Pocket PC just can't match. I'd always hoped that Handspring might just come up with a novel twist on PDA design. I feel let down.

You, and other posters, are right about the future of Palm, though. The Palm OS is too clunky for a phone device, and Graffiti will never be a substitute for true HWR and on-screen interaction to make it a true palmtop computer. It's stuck firmly in the original definition of "PDA", and the Zire is more likely to be a bigger draw in this respect than the $499 Tungsten.
[quote]<strong>I am however on an anti-Microsoft campaign and will refuse to use Microsoft items in all possible situations, so I probably won't be buying a WinCE phone or PDA in the future, however tempting. As for Palm, they don't have the infrastructure to sell products that MS has. They don't have a Dell or HP hawking their wares. They don't have a monopolist product like Office which includes the super important Outlook email to leverage off of. So at least for PDA's, I think their days are numbered.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Oh no, not another one. What did Microsoft do now?
[quote]<strong>But that's the problem. I don't want to be carrying yet another item, a headset, around with me. In fact, when I'm at my desk, both my cell phone and PDA lay on my desk. Heck I'm waiting for an electronic device to replace my wallet!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Now that I could use. Something that means I don't have to carry around all my cards, keys, and cash.

A headset is hardly a big imposition, though, it's just like wearing the earphones on your Walkman or iPod. I guess this would start to become really useful if someone could develop a decent system for voice recognition. I think this is what Matsu is looking for. Life would be much easier if you just had to press a button on your earphone cable and say "Meet Jake 2PM Thursday" to set up an appointment.

I'm still opposed to the whole smart phone thing because the input method (Predictive text input) is even worse than Graffiti or micro-keyboards.

I can currently tell my phone to "Call Jake", and it'll happily oblige. I want more!
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post #23 of 23
Gah. Picture like this give me technolust:

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