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iBrowse is real

post #1 of 31
Thread Starter 
Maybe everyone already knows this, but here's some interesting info. A friend at Microsoft tells me that Apple is actually developing iBrowse. The test builds are being called "eyebrows." Kind of lame, but whatever. Since he's usually way ahead of the curve in rumor-land, I felt like it might be legit to post.

It's based on Mozilla, so it should deliver everything that Chimera is supposed to, along with a more refined UI.

I don't really have any more info, since he doesn't know that much about it either.
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post #2 of 31
...and what would his/her "friends" in the MBU think of this?
post #3 of 31
hey if MS can bundle a browser with their OS then Apple has a right to do so also.
post #4 of 31
Maybe I'm slow, but how would your friend at Microsoft know this? Seems to me that Apple wouldn't be telling Microsoft all about their plans to release a competing product.
post #5 of 31
Wow, this is the 647th report of iBrowse from a "I heard from a friend" post.

Bleh.

Regardless, if it is real, it belongs in the Digital Hub forum with the other iApp discussions. Moving...
post #6 of 31
I was thinking the same think, Brad, but Spline is actually a well known poster around here, so maybe there's a little credibility to this....
post #7 of 31
It doesn't seem that Microsoft would be told about this. And yes, I am real.
post #8 of 31
It might be hard to keep a secret from some of them, given their close contact with so many other things on the platform.
post #9 of 31
[quote]Originally posted by Splinemodel:
<strong>The test builds are being called "eyebrows." Kind of lame, but whatever.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I dunno... I don't think it's too bad... eyebrows as in 'Apples new app will raise some...' - as in 'we sure raised some eyebrows at WWDC when we had Chimera in the dock instead of MSIE'

As for folks at MS knowing and/or not knowing... If any group of people would have the contacts AND desire to see if 'iBrowse' was 'the real deal' or not it WOULD be MS. After all they have the contacts and the means to get a 'confirmation' on this and the need/desire to know is a given.

Now they might not be able to get the 'full scoop' but a simple 'is this for real'... Yea I'm pretty sure the big wigs as MBU could sus-out that much.

Dave

[ 11-06-2002: Message edited by: DaveGee ]</p>
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post #10 of 31
Thread Starter 
I think Brad is somewhat of a douchebag for moving this thread from software (Digital Hub? Does this have anything to do with the hub?) but alas.

I'm sure you can doubt my source or my post, but I really don't care. I was just relaying information. And I did a search and found no posts about iBrowse in the last 3 months. . . It showed that 2 have ever been posted.

So further:
Some of you may know my friends name. I don't know if he even has an NDA, but there is no reason to risk it. I trust him fully with information like this. When iBrowse comes out and you see that it's Mozilla based, I promise I won't be an asshole about it.
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post #11 of 31
[quote]Originally posted by Splinemodel:
<strong>I think Brad is somewhat of a douchebag for moving this thread from software (Digital Hub? Does this have anything to do with the hub?) but alas.</strong><hr></blockquote>Oh, wah wah wah.

Right off the front page, emphasis mine:
[quote]Digital Hub
Discussion of digital peripherals and the iApps.<hr></blockquote>
post #12 of 31
[quote]Originally posted by DaveGee:
<strong>
As for folks at MS knowing and/or not knowing... If any group of people would have the contacts AND desire to see if 'iBrowse' was 'the real deal' or not it WOULD be MS. After all they have the contacts and the means to get a 'confirmation' on this and the need/desire to know is a given.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

It would certainly explain why IE has stagnated for so long.
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post #13 of 31
IMO, iApps shouldn't be shoved into DH, mostly because some iApps might be in the same category with other apps (like iChat and AIM, iCal/iSync and Entourage, iMovie and Microsoft's piece of trash, iTunes and Audion, etc.)

It really creates a void, you can't talk about something in the software forum because of a crappy naming scheme.

I mean come on, mail is about as much a part of your 'Digital Hub' as iCal is, yet Mail should be discussed in Software, and iCal in Digital Hub...

&lt;/rant&gt;

[ 11-06-2002: Message edited by: Spart ]</p>
post #14 of 31
I will believe in iBrowse until iSee.
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post #15 of 31
Why would David Hyatt say that Omniweb has the potential of beating Chimera for speed and that he seemed to prefer a native engine (done right) over gecko if Apple was going to use gecko as their engine for iBrowse? I don't dout that Apple is working on some kind of native browser or if not will eventually take an outside project insider (i.e. OmniWeb) but after hearing Hyatts coments it doesn't look like they would base it of gecko...
post #16 of 31
I wouldn't read to much into a random David Hyatt comment.

I really like the name "iSurf"*.

It would take Apple a while (understatement) to write an engine which can render everything and with the standards compliance Gecko has.

Barto

*Complementing AppleWorks 7... aka iWork
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post #17 of 31
Why would a browser be an iApp? The only thing I can come up with right now is the ability to synch your bookmarks using .Mac. This would be kind of cool if you used multiple machines for web surfing. I would also hope that Apple optimizes the performance so that we can finally achieve parity with IE on XP at equal clock speeds.

Another hunch is that Apple is assigning some of their engineers to the Chimera Project. This Browser is improving at a much faster speed than most open source projects.
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post #18 of 31
[quote]Originally posted by Producer:
<strong>Why would David Hyatt say that Omniweb has the potential of beating Chimera for speed and that he seemed to prefer a native engine (done right) over gecko if Apple was going to use gecko as their engine for iBrowse? I don't dout that Apple is working on some kind of native browser or if not will eventually take an outside project insider (i.e. OmniWeb) but after hearing Hyatts coments it doesn't look like they would base it of gecko...</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well if what you say is true then...

Boy oh boy Dave sure is spending a whole lotta time on Mozilla when Apple isn't gonna use it. Looking at the number of bugs he's involved in I'd be suprised if he had any time for Apple related work.

<a href="http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/query.cgi" target="_blank">http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/query.cgi</a>

In one of the boxes (Email and Numbering) set it to 'contains' and then type apple, this will display all bugs that Dave has been working on since he got an apple.com address.

**EDIT**

UBB HATES LONG LINKS! REMOVED LINK TO SHOW OVER 500 BUGS SINCE DAVE STARTED WORKING AT APPLE

**EDIT**

Dave

[ 11-07-2002: Message edited by: DaveGee ]</p>
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post #19 of 31
Gecko fits into the open frameworks and open-source model Apple has been building on. What is the Gecko license, GPL or other? Could they essentially make their own "streamlined" version of it as a framework, dropping much of the superfluous cross-platform stuff? (If that is even possible that is.)

[ 11-07-2002: Message edited by: BuonRotto ]</p>
post #20 of 31
DaveGee well i know he is part of the Pheonix group which has nothing to do with the Mac too....Hey some people like to drink beer and watch wrestling on TV when they take a break from work...others like to work on Mozilla bugs....who are we to judge?
post #21 of 31
[quote]Originally posted by Producer:
<strong>DaveGee well i know he is part of the Pheonix group which has nothing to do with the Mac too....Hey some people like to drink beer and watch wrestling on TV when they take a break from work...others like to work on Mozilla bugs....who are we to judge?</strong><hr></blockquote>

I wouldn't exactly say 'has nothing to do' since I run it on my Mac and it runs really really nice.

Dave
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post #22 of 31
An Apple Browser based on gecko would be good for Apple. It provides the speed and standards complicance lacking in IE. Apple could build a beautiful Cocoa interface on top of it and voila!

BTW Open up the PkgInfo file in the Chimera package. "APPLCHIM" hmmm. Interesting
post #23 of 31
[quote]Originally posted by jdbon:
<strong>"APPLCHIM" hmmm. Interesting</strong><hr></blockquote>Not really interesting at all.

APPL is simply the type code for an application. It's been that way for some fifteen years. Open any app and you'll see the same.
post #24 of 31
[quote]Originally posted by Producer:
<strong>Why would David Hyatt say that Omniweb has the potential of beating Chimera for speed and that he seemed to prefer a native engine (done right) over gecko if Apple was going to use gecko as their engine for iBrowse?</strong><hr></blockquote>Once OmniWeb 5 is out and clears up the table NSView speed issues, it should indeed by FAR be the fastest browser on OSX. Remember, Chimera/Gecko still have huge chunks of code for cross-platform portability. Oodles of things right down to a simple string variable have been built in custom classes. Redundant code like this that may in the end be slowing things down dramatically and a truly native solution should, at least in theory, be much better.

Also, if I recall correctly, Gecko is not very well threaded to take advantage of SMP whereas OmniWeb always has been. This is why dual-processor users typically see such better performance in OmniWeb than single-processor users. Gecko-based browsers won't see nearly as much an improvement on duals.

[ 11-07-2002: Message edited by: Brad ]</p>
post #25 of 31
Thread Starter 
If OmniWeb beats iBrowse, that's fine with me. I quickly dumped iChat in favor of the must nicer, in my opinion, Adium.

But it wouldn't be too difficult for Apple to eliminate redundant code in the Gecko source. Anyway, time will tell, as it always does.
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post #26 of 31
[quote]Originally posted by Splinemodel:
<strong>But it wouldn't be too difficult for Apple to eliminate redundant code in the Gecko source.</strong><hr></blockquote>Surely you jest!

Mozilla ~ 1.5 million lines of code
OmniWeb ~ 300 thousand lines of code

That's a BIG difference! :eek: I doubt it's a very "easy" task to clean up and dump over a million lines of code.
post #27 of 31
maybe they should call it cyberdoog 2.
post #28 of 31
It is quite interesting the sheer volume of bug reports/activity in the Mozilla project by David Hyatt.

Posting using a work e-mail address indicates that it is part of his work.

If is was a hobby, he would use a personal address. And if it was a hobby, there wouldn't be that many bug reports. People usually would do cool things as a hobby, not worrying about:

Item isn't checked when re-named in menu list
back out XBL
&lt;script&gt; tags in XBL document
Need ability to execute trusted XBL/JS when doc is untrusted
etc.

post #29 of 31
[quote]Originally posted by Splinemodel:
<strong>If OmniWeb beats iBrowse, that's fine with me. I quickly dumped iChat in favor of the must nicer, in my opinion, Adium.

But it wouldn't be too difficult for Apple to eliminate redundant code in the Gecko source. Anyway, time will tell, as it always does.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I deleted Adium because I couldn't use it; it doesn't support @mac.com screen names.
post #30 of 31
"It is quite interesting the sheer volume of bug reports/activity in the Mozilla project by David Hyatt.

Posting using a work e-mail address indicates that it is part of his work."

Format you're going to get David in trouble for goofing off at work
post #31 of 31
How about "Surfer" as a name for this uber Browser from apple?
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