Palm Zire questions...

If people here do good with it, I'm getting one. 'Nuff said. Finally a PDA worth its price.

I had a good look at the Zire, and it's a really nice piece of kit.

As a PDA to keep track of notes, to dos, appointments, and addresses, I think it'll suit most people very well. The battery life should be outstanding. The one caveat in all this is that it doesn't have a backlight, so it's a bit of a pain in the ass to read the screen in low light.

Yeah, it's Palm Desktop, the app you put on your Mac, that requires 10.1.2. It's basically a copy of the PDA features available on your Palm.

If you keep all your contacts and appointments and such in Address Book and iCal, iSync will synchronize the data with your Palm.

You can download Palm Desktop from the website if you want to test it out for features.

I bought one to replace my Palm Personnal (which was a serial device)... and I love it!

It goes real well with my ibook too...

I don't need all the extra stuff that turns pdas into laptops (how many mp3's can you fit into 16MB anyhow?). To me my palm is a contact book, a calendar, a to do list keeper and a way to make lists of interesting stuff to buy or rent (books, cds, movies).

I still haven't added any extra apps onto the thing.

ISync works pretty well. I only had a problem where my iCal calendars were doubled when I restored from a backup. The sync with address book is good (only problem is the birthday info is not transfered to the zire).
It _is_ a beta, so things will get better.

Buy it! Buy it!

I am a satisfied customer...

matvei

[ 11-18-2002: Message edited by: Matvei ]</p>

Just wondering how bad/good is the Zire screen...... Ive read it has no backlight... does that make viewing a drama indoors?

EDIT: Forget this post.... If I had read ALL the other ones in this thread I would have got my answer.... Sorry....... Im a dumbass

[ 11-19-2002: Message edited by: benjamin_r ]</p>

oups

[ 11-19-2002: Message edited by: Matvei ]</p>

scates and others, this might be of interest to you:

(from <a href="http://www.gotapex.com)" target="_blank">www.gotapex.com</a>)

[quote]
Staples.com - Palm Zire PDA for about $70! (Posted by: Leon)
Staples has the Palm Zire for $94.99. Use a $30 off $100 coupon code and you get it for about $70! You just need to add about $5 extra worth of stuff with your purchase.

Get the Palm Zire. <a href="http://www.staples.com/Catalog/Browse/SKU.asp?BCFlag=False&PageType=1&SKU=496540" target="_blank">STAPLES</a>
Add in about $5 worth of extra stuff
Use coupon code: 61884 to get $30 off $100+. Expires 11/30/2002.
Checkout and purchase.
<hr></blockquote>

Cheap and probably worth that price.

[ 11-19-2002: Message edited by: torifile ]</p>

Hey! There will be no distrespecting my Zire, ok bud?

You seem to be trying to justify buying an extravagant pda by putting down the cool little Zire...

It is the lightest PDA out there (my jacket pockets are really happy about not fearing for their physical integrity), it does exactly what I want a pda for, looks great, and does not cost an arm and a leg.

Zire users, UNITE!

[quote]Originally posted by Matvei:
<strong>Hey! There will be no distrespecting my Zire, ok bud?

You seem to be trying to justify buying an extravagant pda by putting down the cool little Zire...

It is the lightest PDA out there (my jacket pockets are really happy about not fearing for their physical integrity), it does exactly what I want a pda for, looks great, and does not cost an arm and a leg.

Zire users, UNITE!

</strong><hr></blockquote>

Maybe you should invest some of the money you saved in a more expensive jacket The Zire is good for what it does and it's worth the cost. But if you can save some money, why not? Personally, I need a more powerful PDA because I write an awful lot on the device. That's why I had a newt 2100 for a while and now a pocket pc. But if you don't need that, go for the zire. After all, it's as capable as any but the most expensive Palm OS devices out there.

-t

ps - no disrespect was intended by my post, but I guess it seeped through the cracks....

i've ot a handspring visor edge.
ilke the usb cradle that charges the batteries and the looks of the silver one.

after using palm desktop for a while - ical and isync showed up.

hmmm.
i have all my contacts in addressbook?
ical has more features and fits my needs better?
backup on my idisk?
i think i'll give it a try.

wow! it works!
only thing i miss is that i can only import one calender.

but i'm still sellingit/giving it away.
i need a phone in the same device.

if i don't get it from apple - i'll get it from someone else.

I don't know if it's amazing or incredibly stupid that the Zire, which is basically a IIIe, which is basically the ORIGINAL palm pilot still manages to capture people. It does what it does very well I guess. I use a handspring Visor and I have to say the only way I'd replace it is if I lost it or broke it. Like I did with my IIIe.

Ooh, the Zire <a href="http://store.palm.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1194078" target="_blank">case</a> is kind of cute, too.

[quote]Originally posted by Composer:
<strong>I don't know if it's amazing or incredibly stupid that the Zire, which is basically a IIIe, which is basically the ORIGINAL palm pilot still manages to capture people. It does what it does very well I guess. I use a handspring Visor and I have to say the only way I'd replace it is if I lost it or broke it. Like I did with my IIIe.</strong><hr></blockquote>

The main difference is that the original palm pilot cost an arm and a leg. The Zire represents that moment when PCs went down to the $399 barrier.

The original Palm was ugly and a quite a bit larger than the attractive Zire, too!

This was a good deal but it's over...

<a href="http://www.palm.com/promotions/shareholders/" target="_blank">http://www.palm.com/promotions/shareholders/</a>

[quote]Originally posted by Composer:
<strong>I use a handspring Visor and I have to say the only way I'd replace it is if I lost it or broke it. Like I did with my IIIe.</strong><hr></blockquote>

My first Palm was a IIIe, which I gave to my sister as a present. Then I got a IIIx, which I replaced with a IIIxe when it was stolen. I still own that IIIxe and it does more than I need.

I looked at a Zire in a Radio Shack store yesterday. The Zire is a lot larger (thicker especially) than I expected it to be. It's almost as big as my IIIxe. I expected the Zire to be white all around, but only the front is white while the back is grayish.

In any case, if I were to loose or break my IIIxe, I'd probably get a Zire to replace it. The Zire would do everything I need. And it would let me avoid the USB PDA Adapter.

Escher

The Zire's a nice piece of equipment, but not enough for me. I have a Treo 90, which fits my needs better. Color, expansion slot, 16MB ram & built in keyboard. Much pricier, but worth it for my uses.

Have any of you seen/used these in real life? They are honestly nothing special. In fact, the boring white crappy plastic construction is certainly not "cute." Compared to other Palm devices, the iPod, my Handspring Visor Edge, and a friend's little M10x Palm, I think it's actually pretty ugly and mainstream-looking.

Anyhow, for $70-100, go buy one.. you'll play with it for the first couple of months.. then it'll be a utilitarian device.. and after that it'll probably just be a playtoy you've gotten tired of. There just isn't enough to keep a grayscale Palm device interesting or continually useful, not even a different white plastic casing can help that. Still, like so many have mentioned, it's probably worth the small price. I might go buy one as a gift for a family member or friend.. I don't care if they use it, they'll be thrilled I got them their own PDA.

What is there to keep a color device useful?

Seems to me that expensive color/multimedia PDA's, in their current forms, are far more gimmicky that a straightforward PDA, and that when you say they're "interesting" you really mean they have more gee-whiz appeal. I think that will certainly fade sooner than the basic utility of a Zire. In the end, you'll get bored with the color, games, graphics and use it in much the same way as a Zire.

What PDA's need is an excellent voice recording facility and database and storage to manage hours and hours worth of voice notes, and a method by which to carry out transcription after the fact, perhaps in conjunction with your main computer. Appending your voice notes with keywords and brief written notes or sketches and dropping them into a time stamped database, that would be interesting. There really isn't any "interesting" PDA on the market yet, color screens or not.

Have you started on an all-white kick since getting your new iMac, pscates, or do you still like orange?:



Though I hope something like your vision is coming, Matsu, it really irks me that I can't get a PDA that supports some "high-end" features like 802.11 and Bluetooth without a color screen/camera/four-slice toaster.

Connectivity should not be a "high end" feature.

The Zire was an upgrade over my palm personnal in 2 important ways:

1)USB connectivity

2)Practically weightless. In fact, it is the lightest functionnal PDA ever produced.

The original functions that I used the personnal for (with it's 512kb of RAM, and 5,6oz weight), are still there: Address book, Date book, to do lists, and memos.

Where do I need color, wifi, bluetooth, pcmcia slots, 1 gig of ram, keyboard, multimedia for these simple tasks? It adds nothing.

I'd be wasting money, if I bought anything "better" than a Zire.

Small, simple and usefull: that is how I want my pda.

Don't get me wrong though. I would jump at getting a "new newton". A thin, powerfull pda that could do all my pda needs, plus have 40GB of storage, real sound recording capabilities (with on-the-fly conversion to mp3 of multi-hour long lectures), mp4 video replay at 23 frames/sec, airport, bluetooth, instant-on, etc.

Till this machine exists. I am happy with the Zire. All the other newfangled attempts at creating a _really_ useful pocket computer all come short.

Who listens to Mp3's on a 16MB machine anyway?

[ 11-23-2002: Message edited by: Matvei ]</p>

[quote]Originally posted by pscates:
<strong>Kinda wish I would've snagged one of those Palm Visor things from a couple of years ago (came in translucent orange and would've been perfect for my needs).</strong><hr></blockquote>
Have a look on eBay. It shouldn't be too hard to find one, and it'll cost even less than the Zire. I loved the padded slip cases that came with the Visors.
[quote]Originally posted by Matvei:
<strong>Where do I need color, wifi, bluetooth, pcmcia slots, 1 gig of ram, keyboard, multimedia for these simple tasks? It adds nothing.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I agree on most of this, but I could really use the connectivity. I'd like Bluetooth so I could use it with a cell phone to collect e-mail without having to align those damned IrDA ports. And I'd like 802.11b because it's everywhere at work, and there's hardly an inch of Manhattan that doesn't have coverage.

I can sit in Starbucks and do my e-mail, and complain about its corporate barbarism, whilst really enjoying a double latte.

[ 11-23-2002: Message edited by: Belle ]</p>

I really think you need a small small sub note or an HPC, Belle. And you're right about connectivity of course, USB and bluetooth should be standard, and 802.11 a low cost option on just about any portable digital device.

Isn't Starbucks amazing? The corporate coffehouse, I love it, brilliant!

You'd want to write email on such puny screens with graffiti, slow recognition or chicklet keyboard? Huh?

In a pinch, ok. But not frequently.

About the newtworked office with wifi, what would you do? Read CNN? post on AI?

Again... it becomes a slow, cumbersome, internet jr. (tm) experience that I cannot see being really pleasant.

Has anyone actually enjoyed any of the activities that she is describing?

Don't get me started on ebooks...

There is a huge difference between cool geek toy and actual useful device.

I should add as a disclaimer that, while not a luddite, I am strongly opposed to having a cell-phone, pager, blackberry, hiptop or any device that limits my personnal freedom to not be bothered.

I have an answering machine on my home line, which I do check frequently and I check my emails fairly often. I do not want to be reachable at all times.

never. ever.

If I deem it important, I will call back _at my leasure_.

This is one sacrifice I am not willing to make. No job is worth losing my freedom, in my view.

Matvei,
I actually like using my e740 to input information. Typing gets tedious and it's something that must be done. I prefer to handwrite, but that means I need to retype it later. Having decent HWR on my PPC gives me the ability to handwrite with minimal difficulty. And it's nice not to have to lug my Ti to a coffeeshop if I want to take a break and get some work done at the same time. That and the wifi make it a very nice addition to my digital life. Oh, also, much of what I write is confidential (patient notes), so it's nice not to have to position myself in such a way that no one can see my big bright Ti screen to see my patients' names and a description of their problems. I'm sure they appreciate that too.

[quote]Originally posted by Matvei:
<strong>You'd want to write email on such puny screens with graffiti, slow recognition or chicklet keyboard? Huh?

In a pinch, ok. But not frequently.

About the newtworked office with wifi, what would you do? Read CNN? post on AI?

Again... it becomes a slow, cumbersome, internet jr. (tm) experience that I cannot see being really pleasant.

Has anyone actually enjoyed any of the activities that she is describing?

Don't get me started on ebooks...

There is a huge difference between cool geek toy and actual useful device.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I strongly dislike e-books, I don't particularly want to do any surfing, and I most certainly wouldn't want to post to AI.

But in my job - whether I'm at the lab or at home or sitting in Starbucks - I have to refer to a lot of e-mails I've been sent, and a library of around 600,000 text documents that reside on a server.

I admit it's much easier to view both e-mails and documents on a proper display, but it's also a bit of a pain carrying a 51b laptop, especially around the laboratory building.

I'm most certainly not looking for a cool geek toy. (Otherwise I'd want the camera/color display/toaster.) I'm just looking at smaller, lighter alternatives to either my iBook or ThinkPad when it comes to carrying a device around.

Just because we're looking to get different things from a palmtop doesn't mean that either of us is right or wrong, friend.

Of course, diffrent uses for different folks. I get that. In fact that was the gist of my point in supporting the Zire in this thread.

But it must be sooo slow to peruse these files on that tiny screen, no? I don't know, i'd prefer luggin' the ibook...

As for the torifile post. Well, I understand wanting to keep the screen confidential, but aren't you scared of losing the pda with the info on it?

If you can lock the files, maybe you didn't have the time or the chance to lock it before an evil bugger swipes it from you. I'd be scared of that!

And they do sell these contraptions that you can install over your laptop screen (much like the hood on the lacie electron blue monitors)... I'd prefer that.

And again, on that small screen? Using Handwriting recognition? Isn't it slow? I have never used more than graffiti, so I can't judge accuratly, except from reading that even the fabled newton was unfit for notetaking, without the keyboard.

With a tablet pc, i'd understand both of your uses better. But with dinky 5inch screens... Seems like more trouble that what come out of it.

PS: Torifile, did you hear about the recall on the Toshiba 740s?

Matvei,

Yes, I am a little concerned about losing it, but that's far less likely than someone reading over my shoulder. A calculated risk, I guess. And the HWR on these guys (as well as on the newt 2x00) is really pretty good. It's far and away better than graffiti and the processor can more than handle it. Back on my old newt 130, it was SLOW, but on my 2100 and now on the e740 it's more than adequate.

As far as file searching, etc., it's not too bad at all. There are a couple really good file explorers out there. The built-in one is extremely limited, as is the built-in PIM and other applications. I get the impression that MS left these things lacking intentionally. It was actually one of the things that ticked me off about it. But there are some able substitutes for the applications. :/

I also thought of another extremely important aspect of these things for me: I don't have to carry around my DSM-IV or the PDR (I'm a psychologist so I need a cheat sheet for patient medication). It's a GREAT benefit of having all the RAM and even the nice color screen helps. It's well worth it (for me). I've actually never even played a game on it, but from what I hear they're pretty good at that too.

-t

ps - yes, I heard about the recall and I got one from Amazon's new batch. Thanks for the heads up, though.

This is as good a place as any to put in my $0.02.

[quote]Originally posted by Matvei:
<strong>Of course, diffrent uses for different folks. I get that. In fact that was the gist of my point in supporting the Zire in this thread.

But it must be sooo slow to peruse these files on that tiny screen, no? I don't know, i'd prefer luggin' the ibook...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Not really. I've read a couple books on my PDA, and found it very convenient. With over a dozen books on it, I was able to just decide what I was in the mood for & start reading. No lugging around my whole library for the day (difficult to do with hardbacks!).

[quote]<strong>
As for the torifile post. Well, I understand wanting to keep the screen confidential, but aren't you scared of losing the pda with the info on it?

If you can lock the files, maybe you didn't have the time or the chance to lock it before an evil bugger swipes it from you. I'd be scared of that!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes, you can lock the files. In most apps, if it supports locking individual files, they are locked as soon as you leave the app. Also, the PDA as a whole can be automatically locked down whenever it's turned off/goes to sleep.

So, the only way someone could get into that data is if you put it down while on, or if they literally swiped it out of your hand.

[quote]<strong>
And they do sell these contraptions that you can install over your laptop screen (much like the hood on the lacie electron blue monitors)... I'd prefer that.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Not sure what you're referring to there, if you mean PDAs. There are plastic protectors you can put over the screen itself, to prevent scratches from the stylus/fingernails.

[quote]<strong>
And again, on that small screen? Using Handwriting recognition? Isn't it slow? I have never used more than graffiti, so I can't judge accuratly, except from reading that even the fabled newton was unfit for notetaking, without the keyboard.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Handwriting recognition varies from person to person. Some people can write just as fast as they can type. Personally, I have terrible handwriting, so Graffiti only makes it worse.

That's why I bought a Treo 90. Built in keyboard. Small? Yes. But it works, and I can type a heckuva lot faster than I can write.

[quote]<strong>
With a tablet pc, i'd understand both of your uses better. But with dinky 5inch screens... Seems like more trouble that what come out of it.</strong><hr></blockquote>

That dinky screen is the main draw for me. I'd love a tablet that measured about 6 x 9, but that won't fit in my pocket. With my Treo, I can keep it in my pocket all day, then just pull it out and jot down a note as needed.

If I can find a barcode scanner that works via SD slot (and Filemaker Mobile gets support for it), I could cut down a lot of my work time. As a purchaser for a small store, I could simply scan in barcodes for the items we're getting low on, then sync to my PC and have the order ready to go.

Just to clear up some misinformation on this thread, according to the Palm site, you should all be aware of the following apparent limitations of the Zire:

1. The screen is bitmap, not grayscale!!!
2. The Zire does not include any software to do the following basic tasks:
Sync/read email
Read eBooks
3. It looks like the IRDA port of the Zire is not able to connect to a moble phone, and thus cannot do the following, no matter what software you buy:
Connect to the internet for Email, web browsing, etc.
Sync directly with a mobile phone
Send faxes
4. The Zire also has only two navigation buttons, instead of four, limiting the device's usefulness for many third party applications, especially games.

Correct me if I'm wrong on any of these (I'm especially not sure about the IRDA limitation).

[ 11-25-2002: Message edited by: tonton ]</p>

Just like color screens were the future of television, the future of computer screens/laptops, and now that of PDAs and mobile phones, it's gonna happen; it does and willmake a difference in the experience, no matter how much you want to deny it.

Anyway, as far as a PDA goes, I've decided I don't want to lug around a separate PDA anymore, especially when so many of it's functions are tied to either telephony or internet (address book, email, downloads, webbrowsing, instant messaging, etc etc), I'm just going to get a phone with a capable operating system and physical featureset. If you've read my 'mobile phones' thread you've heard my ranting and indecision, but I've definitely settled on the Sony-Ericsson P800 device, a sleek and compact PDA with great color screen, capable Symbian OS (Palm-killer: it does everything your PocketPC can but your Palm just wishes it could), flippable numeric keypad, and even an integrated camera, Bluetooth, as well as GSM/GPRS support, of course. Should be coming out in mid-January, well worth the wait.

What am I doing with my Visor Edge once I get my wonderful smartphone? Probably, I'll give it to my mom or something. Unless somebody around here wants a Metallic Red Visor Edge packed with great freeware/shareware Palm apps and things, in great shape, wonderfully durable metal casing, etc etc.. $50

Color is great. I am not denying this. But, to me, I will forgo color if it gives me better battery life and lower prices.

I have never seen it with the power bar even down a friggin' notch! When you sync it through the usb port, it uses that time to suck up a bit of power from the ibook to the device. Doesn't cost anything to the ibook, but the palm is refreshed completely!

As for the buttons, I never used to use them on my palm personal. I don't play games on my Zire.

Torifile: I'm myself a psychology student. I was wondering what kind of software you keep your patient files in? Filemaker, Word, specialized software? And in general, have you found any software that could be usefull for a clinical psychologist (Cognitive & Behavior therapy orientated)? How about research software? I am currently interested in motivation (particularly "Drive" and "outcome value evaluation". I'm thinking of one of the omni sketching software to illustrate models. What do you use as bibliography database software (I've seem a few for OSX, both shareware and the famous Endnote).

I guess this is like asking "What's on your powerbook?" &lt;- That was a great ad campain, by the way!

thanks.

[ 11-25-2002: Message edited by: Matvei ]

[ 11-25-2002: Message edited by: Matvei ]</p>

[quote]Originally posted by tonton:
<strong>1. The screen is bitmap, not grayscale!!!</strong><hr></blockquote>
According to <a href="http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=4324" target="_blank">this</a> article, it's 16 shade grayscale.
[quote]<strong>2. The Zire does not include any software to do the following basic tasks:
Sync/read email
Read eBooks</strong><hr></blockquote>
True, and the limited memory (2MB) isn't going to make it easy to stuff the Zire full of apps or e-mails/e-books.
[quote]<strong>3. It looks like the IRDA port of the Zire is not able to connect to a moble phone, and thus cannot do the following, no matter what software you buy:
Connect to the internet for Email, web browsing, etc.
Sync directly with a mobile phone
Send faxes</strong><hr></blockquote>
The article above says that IrDA will work fine for connecting to a cell phone, and that TCP/IP etc. is supported.
[quote]<strong>4. The Zire also has only two navigation buttons, instead of four, limiting the device's usefulness for many third party applications, especially games.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think most apps will have a workaround, but I'm not entirely certain the Zire is best suited for games, anyway. The 2MB limit isn't going to allow for it.

Of course I'm just going on the word of the above article, which could be entirely wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.
[quote]Originally posted by Matvei:
<strong>I guess this is like asking "What's on your powerbook?" &lt;- That was a great ad campain, by the way!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Agreed! One of the best print campaigns ever! It was those advertisements that made me lust after the PowerBook so much. Kind of interesting, too. I remember Samuel L. Jackson had Links Pro on his, and Henry Rollins had all his material on his.

[ 11-25-2002: Message edited by: Belle ]</p>

Sorry, Belle. I got all that information directly on Palm's site <a href="http://www.palm.com/products/family.epl" target="_blank">here</a>.

It looks like Palm is trying to dissuade certain people from buying the Zire instead of a more expensive model by understating its capabilities on the website.

For instance, in the comparison chart, the Tungsten T, M515 and M130 are listed as having color screens, the i705, M500, M125 and M105 are clearly listed as "grayscale" and the Zire is listed as "monochrome". That's what gave me the impression that "monochrome" meant bitmap. Palm could easily have put "16 Grays" on the chart instead.

It is weird, tonton. I thought perhaps the news sites had received pre-production models, but I've read a couple that bought the full packaged device.

You may be right that Palm is deliberately underselling the features of the Zire to persuade people to buy a more advanced model.

I guess the best idea if anyone is considering getting a Zire and needs an IrDA connection with a cell phone is to go along and try it out in a store.

I'd consider a Zire if I take the low(-end) road, but I'm really worried about the lack of backlight. Would I struggle to read it in the muted light in Starbucks or my favorite cafe?