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Rumor: Apple to launch lower-capacity 8GB iPhone 5c this week - Page 2

post #41 of 115
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

[refuses to answer any questions or prove his point]

 

Like clockwork. Almost makes me upset that I’m able to call these things so accurately.

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post #42 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

I think 8GB of space is almost a slap in the face now days.
Not to mention that the cost differential is almost non existent. 8GB of flash is chump change these days. Apple would have to accept lower margins to make the model significantly cheaper. Then they would have to deal with consumer dissatisfaction.

About the only place I could see this working is in the corporate issues phone market where limited flash might be seen as a feature.
Quote:
I'm not even a big user of my phone as far as lots of apps and music and I had to delete things just to install iOS 7.1 with a 16GB iPhone 5C.
Exactly 8GB isn't even suitable for low end mainstream users.
Quote:
One thing I'd really like to see is the bottom end phone be 32GB instead of 16GB. Making the offerings 32/64/128 instead of 16/32/64. As people start doing more and more and Apple keeps making the cameras better and better it will use up the storage capacity even faster, especially with these lower capacities. 
Yep.

Considering how far the price of flash has dropped I'd go even further and say that Apple has been screwing over users lately by not doubling the price of flash. The price of flash has dropped enough to more than double storage without impacting parts cost. Combine that with the utter failure of iCloud and I don't see a good excuse for Apple these days.

As you point out apps themselves take up lots of room and you add a bit of data storage and it gets crowded fast. Apple really needs to think about a 32GB entry point.
Quote:
Once you get a few songs on it and take a few photos that 8GB will be gone in a heartbeat. I know this is supposed to be a cheap offering but its sorta useless with the amount of space on it. 
Useless is the right word. At least for most users. Like I said though the corporate market might see this as an advantage effectively restricting the amount of sensitive data that can go on the phone. Other users would just end up extremely dissatisfied.
Quote:
That being said, I think it would be great to see the 5C offered instead of the 4S if thats what Apple intends on doing. 

Err no really. The 4S sits at a nice size point. Physical size still means a lot to many users.
post #43 of 115
C is for "Cloud".
Really Apple??
 
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post #44 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

No, but I’m about to do some insulting. Explain how your use of the iPhone is identical to the use of the other two hundred million iPhone users and how everyone who wants or could potentially want an iPhone needs more than 8GB of space. That has been your argument thus far, so prove it.
There is nothing to prove here, it is well known that consumers become very very dissatisfied with a product if they can't do what they expect to be able to do with said product. At 8GB it doesn't take much more than a couple of apps to greatly reduce the usability of iPhone. If a few minutes of picture taking fills up an iPhone that will lead to unhappy customers.

Beyond that there is an element of a ripoff here. The reality is that there is only a minor difference in the cost to implement 8 GB versus 16 GB in an iPhone. It isn't enough to significantly shift the price of the iPhone lower without Apple giving up margin.

The third problem is also price related and that has to do with how the price of flash has dropped massively over the life span of the iPhones. At a minimal Apple needs to double the flash capacity at each price point instead of having it.
post #45 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Err no really. The 4S sits at a nice size point. Physical size still means a lot to many users.

 

This also makes me think Apple is really trying to phase out the 30-pin dock connector as well. We've heard the iPad 2 is also on its way out very soon which I think would make all of Apple's iOS devices using the lightning connector. 

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post #46 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

 

imo they were expecting much better sales indeed. Beating the 4s sales is setting the bar very low on a redesign phone. The phone is Ok, its a matter of pricing.

For a phone that was so heavily advertised... I'm sure that Apple thought its sales would come close to the 5s.

Here's an interesting chart for iPhone sales in China -- supposedly a big target for the 5C:




http://************/2014/03/17/iphone-5c-not-a-hit-in-china-either-would-a-rumored-8gb-model-help/#more-315124

The above lint is to nine2fiveMacdotcom


I don't understand how reducing the BOM cost for a $9.40 part can significantly reduce the retail price.

     5C           | 16 GB | 32 GB
NAND Flash | $9.40 | $18.80
Edited by Dick Applebaum - 3/17/14 at 8:36am
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post #47 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

For a phone that was so heavily advertised... I'm sure that Apple thought its sales would come close to the 5s.
I think you forgot your /s tag.
post #48 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woochifer View Post

I don't see this as anything more than another supply chain play, and move to finally phase out the 30-pin connector from Apple's new devices.  This simply displaces the 4s as the entry level model (except in India, where the iPhone 4 purportedly remains available) in developed markets, and better optimizes the unused production capacity for the 5c. 

With any move like this under Tim Cook, you have to view it through the supply chain, since that's his background and his area of expertise.
Ding ding ding we have a winner!
post #49 of 115
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

Neither one of us has exact proof of either side.

 

I do. So there’s that.

 
I have yet to see you prove your side too.

 

Yes, I’m sure that there is no one on Earth who would use their phone in the use case you have described¡

 

Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post
There is nothing to prove here, it is well known that consumers become very very dissatisfied with a product if they can't do what they expect to be able to do with said product.

 

I don’t think anyone’s contesting that.

 
At 8GB it doesn't take much more than a couple of apps to greatly reduce the usability of iPhone. If a few minutes of picture taking fills up an iPhone that will lead to unhappy customers.

 

But with 8GB, neither of those statements are correct.

 
At a minimal Apple needs to double the flash capacity at each price point instead of having it.

 

I’m totally in agreement with that.

 

Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

 

Chart’s utter BS, by the way. That should be evident to anyone who looks at it.

Originally posted by Marvin

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post #50 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


Chart’s utter BS, by the way. That should be evident to anyone who looks at it.

Explain?
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post #51 of 115
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post
Explain?

 

Oh? Okay.

 

We’re comparing two 1st year products with a 2nd year product and calling the 2nd year product’s sales a failure.

 

Wh… :lol:

 

The chart needs to show the sales of the iPhone 4 and the iPhone 4s in their respective second years of sales. Instead of showing iPhone 5S (only first year run data) and iPhone 5 (only first year run data) compared to iPhone 5C (explicitly second year run data).

 

Really, all this chart does is show the drop off in 1st and 2nd year sales between a SINGLE MODEL of phone, so it’s useful in that regard. Since the 5C is the 5, those two lines alone can be compared. The 5S is just thrown in there for no reason, looking at it that way.

 

And since the 5C has sold better than second year 4S, it’s hardly a failure.

Originally posted by Marvin

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post #52 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post
 

so they are releasing a phone with a retarded 8gb of tiny space (this is 2014 last time I ckecked) to save 5$ on cost?  If they want to sell the 5c in volume they need to drop the price to $400 or below on the 16g models....

 

Well herbapou, at the risk of seeming to agree with you, I'll assert that 8GB of storage is a tiny fraction of cost in the overall scheme of things, and I doubt Apple will hobble the 5c (5-color) by turning it into the 5cc (5-cheap-crap).  This rumor seems counter to Apple's vision.

 

I strongly disagree with your assertion that Apple should "want to sell the 5c in volume".  It is very clear that Apple wants to sell their products at high profit. Not merely volume.  So your straw-man argument fails. 

 

--------------------

Update Edit:  Seems there are photos of actual items for release tomorrow, so my doubts seem unwarranted. I am at a loss to understand Apple's rationale on it though.


Edited by TeaEarleGreyHot - 3/17/14 at 10:03am
post #53 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

Chart’s utter BS, by the way. That should be evident to anyone who looks at it.

 

Yes, and "% market share" is a silly figure to track when both market and market share are expanding.

post #54 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Quote:
Explain?

Oh? Okay.

We’re comparing two 1st year products with a 2nd year product and calling the 2nd year product’s sales a failure.

Wh… lol.gif

The chart needs to show the sales of the iPhone 4 and the iPhone 4s in their respective second years of sales. Instead of showing iPhone 5S (only first year run data) and iPhone 5 (only first year run data) compared to iPhone 5C (explicitly second year run data).

Really, all this chart does is show the drop off in 1st and 2nd year sales between a SINGLE MODEL of phone, so it’s useful in that regard. Since the 5C is the 5, those two lines alone can be compared. The 5S is just thrown in there for no reason, looking at it that way.

And since the 5C has sold better than second year 4S, it’s hardly a failure.

I assume that the Launch Month scale shows when that device was launched in China (when the devices are first available):

Quote:
iPhone 5 First Weekend Sales in China Top Two Million

BEIJING—December 17, 2012—Apple® today announced it has sold over two million of its new iPhone® 5 in China, just three days after its launch on December 14. iPhone 5 will be available in more than 100 countries by the end of December, making it the fastest iPhone rollout ever.

“Customer response to iPhone 5 in China has been incredible, setting a new record with the best first weekend sales ever in China,” said Tim Cook, Apple’s CEO. “China is a very important market for us and customers there cannot wait to get their hands on Apple products.”

iPhone 5 is the thinnest and lightest iPhone ever, completely redesigned to feature a stunning new 4-inch Retina® display; an Apple-designed A6 chip for blazing fast performance; and ultrafast wireless technology*—all while delivering even better battery life.** iPhone 5 comes with iOS 6, the world’s most advanced mobile operating system with over 200 new features including: Shared Photo Streams, all-new Maps app, Passbook® organization and even more Siri® features and languages including Mandarin.


https://www.apple.com/pr/library/2012/12/16iPhone-5-First-Weekend-Sales-in-China-Top-Two-Million.html
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post #55 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeaEarleGreyHot View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 
Chart’s utter BS, by the way. That should be evident to anyone who looks at it.

Yes, and "% market share" is a silly figure to track when both market and market share are expanding.

It's percent share of active iOS devices!
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post #56 of 115

8GB is not enough for a modern smartphone, they should not do this.

post #57 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


Here's an interesting chart for iPhone sales in China -- supposedly a big target for the 5C:




http://************/2014/03/17/iphone-5c-not-a-hit-in-china-either-would-a-rumored-8gb-model-help/#more-315124

The above lint is to nine2fiveMacdotcom


I don't understand how reducing the BOM cost for a $9.40 part can significantly reduce the retail price.

     5C           | 16 GB | 32 GB
NAND Flash | $9.40 | $18.80

 

Exactly.

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post #58 of 115

The logic escapes me, take a phone that isn't meeting expectations and cripple it with half the storage?

5C/15GB is already less than $30 at Walmart. What now BOGO? 

 

Hopefully just another silly rumor.

post #59 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Doesn't matter.

Cook said it didn't live up to expectations. Sold lower than they were hoping.

Cook never said that, as you know. I don't like lies.
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post #60 of 115

From Engadget:

 

 

post #61 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

Releasing a 8g phone is just plain insulting to me. Its like those guys are stuck in a loop and just cant innovate anymore. They doing this because thats what they usually do?  JC, unreal.

They could lower the number of colors so managing is easier , they are others ways than releasing a nerf phone. How about optimizing production and just drop the price?

I'm glad you're insulted. I hope Apple continually manage to insult you.
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post #62 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

Cook never said that, as you know. I don't like lies.
http://appleinsider.com/articles/14/01/27/tim-cook-admits-iphone-5c-share-lower-than-expected-says-demand-was-different-than-we-thought
You should post that in this AI article too.
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post #63 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post


Cook never said that, as you know. I don't like lies.

Not in exact words...

 

>>>>

Bank of Montreal: Tim, Growing iPhones 7%, market will be 14%. Are you happy with pricing umbrellas you have? In particular the 5C? 

Cook: last quarter we did a tremendous job, mix. Demand percentage turned out to be different than we thought. If we decide it's in our interest to make a change, then we make one. Not going to predict price changes on the call. Our line in the sand is making something that's not fantastic.



Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-q1-earnings-2014-1#ixzz2wEvnaSse

post #64 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

This is what was expected.....at the time of launch last September it was said that instead of offering a $0 / 8 GB 5c, Apple would continue to offering the iPhone 4S for a limited period of time..it was unclear if this had to do with inventory or distribution channels, or the relative popularity of the 4S in certain markets at the time....but it was always known that while the 4S was going to be the $0 phone a while longer, it was not going to last the full 12 months. In fact, I think there were reports that said until early 2014....so its falling right in line.

What is funny is that Apple could have done this back in September, made an 8 GB $0 version....and totally padded the 5c numbers to offset all the whiney bloggers and analysts....but they did what made the most business sense instead.

If it was clear the 4S was doomed I don't remember reading it. And there is no $0 iPhone. And is it doomed? The price point for the lower iPhone 5c seems higher.

Maybe they should have done this from the start, maybe not. Hindsight is 20-20 vision. If they over calculated the 5S sales then they would have had room to introduce a lower priced version sooner. However they probably wanted to wait until the Christmas and Chinese New Year was over.

 

I suspect the COGS were too high at launch. Now that production has matured and they have had the opportunity to further cost reduce the device, they can likely go after a lower price point without ruining their margins. Any organization with a focus on value engineering  will plan future cost reductions and adjustments over a year in advance. I tend to think Apple knows what they are doing when it comes to supply chain and portfolio management. It is hindsight for us, but would have been planned well in advance by them.

post #65 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post


Cook never said that, as you know. I don't like lies.

 

Well, you give us your interpretation of Cook's remarks when he was asked for his explanation of why "sales were lower than expected".

 

I don't recall Cook saying that sales weren't lower than expected before giving his reason.

 

Demand percentage for the iPhone 5c "turned out to be different than we thought,"... just a fancy way of saying that the 5c didn't sell as many phones as expected.

 

As you know, I don't like bullshit.

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post #66 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post
It's percent share of active iOS devices!

 

Got it. I misread the rotated text. Still not sure how to interpret the charts, but not going to argue further on it. Cheers!

post #67 of 115

Yeah, Cook doesn't say it didn't live up to expectations there, either. Not surprised to see you defending lies, as that seems to be your raison d'être on AppleInsider.
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post #68 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post

Not in exact words...



 



>>>>



Bank of Montreal: Tim, Growing iPhones 7%, market will be 14%. Are you happy with pricing umbrellas you have? In particular the 5C? 



Cook: last quarter we did a tremendous job, mix. Demand percentage turned out to be different than we thought. If we decide it's in our interest to make a change, then we make one. Not going to predict price changes on the call. Our line in the sand is making something that's not fantastic.





Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-q1-earnings-2014-1#ixzz2wEvnaSse

Not in inexact words, either.
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post #69 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post


Not in inexact words, either.

"Demand percentage turned out to be different than we thought."

So I suppose you interpret this as 5C exceeded expectations?

 

:no:

post #70 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post

"Demand percentage turned out to be different than we thought."
So I suppose you interpret this as 5C exceeded expectations?

1oyvey.gif

At no point in that interview did Tim Cook reveal what Apple's expectations were for the iPhone 5c. The best you can do is put your interpretation on what he said. To explicitly say that Tim Cook said that the iPhone 5c didn't live up to expectations is simply wrong, a falsehood, a lie. The interviewer attempted to put words into his mouth with his question about the iPhone 5c not living up to expectations. It was a hateful, sly question that has led to the usual suspects on this forum following the interviewer's lead and putting words into Tim Cook's mouth, you included, judging from your emoticon.
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post #71 of 115
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post
At no point in that interview did Tim Cook reveal what Apple's expectations were for the iPhone 5c. The best you can do is put your interpretation of what he said.

 

“Different” does imply lower in this situation, but you’re correct in saying that we don’t know what their expectations were; therefore we don’t know HOW much lower.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #72 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post


At no point in that interview did Tim Cook reveal what Apple's expectations were for the iPhone 5c. The best you can do is put your interpretation on what he said. To explicitly say that Tim Cook said that the iPhone 5c didn't live up to expectations is simply wrong, a falsehood, a lie. The interviewer attempted to put words into his mouth with his question about the iPhone 5c not living up to expectations. It was a hateful, sly question that has lead to the usual suspects on this forum following the interviewer's lead and putting words into Tim Cook's mouth, you included, judging from your emoticon.

He didn't give explicit Demand Percentages either but he said that the actuality was "different than we thought".  You don't need exact numbers to read this any other way. 

post #73 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post
 

"Demand percentage turned out to be different than we thought."

So I suppose you interpret this as 5C exceeded expectations?

 

:no:

 

Exactly.

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post #74 of 115
Yes I know 8GB is very small for today standards but if we compare that to the 8GB iPhone 4S the 5C is a huge upgrade at the same price. iPhone 5C is different because Apple is doing different things with it. Not just shaving off 100 $ every year.
post #75 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post

He didn't give explicit Demand Percentages either but he said that the actuality was "different than we thought".  You don't need exact numbers to read this any other way. 

As I said, you're interpreting "different than we thought", as "didn't live up to our expectations". That isn't what Tim Cook said, which is the lie that island hermit initially propounded.
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post #76 of 115
They should sell the 5c cheap with 16GB. I won't put a damper on the 5S market at all. Those buying the 5S have the money and they are willing to spend it for the additional functionality. Its the difference between a regular version and a pro version of products. Keep it simple.
post #77 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post


As I said, you're interpreting "different than we thought", as "didn't live up to our expectations". That isn't what Tim Cook said, which is the lie that island hermit initially propounded.

 

Meh, that's just pointless nitpicking.

post #78 of 115

I've had an 8Gb iPhone 3G, 16Gb iPhone 4, and now the 16Gb iPhone 5. I'll tell you, 16Gb is no longer enough to utilize Apple's 1st party apps that are free to users whom by a new device. 32Gb needs to be the new standard for any iOS device. For my 16Gb device, it's capacity is only 13.3 Gb of storage for my use. Apple already takes 3gb just to install their OS that has so much non-local bloatware. Either Apple needs to up their storage when iOS starts eating 4Gb, or Apple needs to allow users to remove non-local language packs. 

post #79 of 115
Here are the iPhone Release Dates (Low End models Italicized, Blue models still in production)

iPhone (1st generation)
  • Released 4, 8 GB: June 29, 2007
  • 16 GB: February 5, 2008

iPhone 3G
  • All models: July 11, 2008

iPhone 3GS
  • 16, 32 GB: June 19, 2009
  • 8 GB black: June 24, 2010

iPhone 4
  • 16, 32 GB: June 24, 2010
  • CDMA: February 10, 2011
  • White: April 28, 2011
  • 8 GB: October 14, 2011

iPhone 4S
  • 16, 32, 64 GB: October 14, 2011
  • 8 GB: September 20, 2013

iPhone 5
  • All models: September 21, 2012

iPhone 5C
  • All models: September 20, 2013

iPhone 5S
  • All models: September 20, 2013

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone


It appears that there is precedent for the 8GB -- and that it is determined mainly by supply chain and mfg costs as well as price umbrella.

I wonder how close the iPhone 6 is -- or doubling the iPhone 5S RAM and Flash and keeping the same price points 1confused.gif
Edited by Dick Applebaum - 3/17/14 at 10:56am
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post #80 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post
 

 

Meh, that's just pointless nitpicking.

No; they mean two different things. You're not thinking.

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