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Mac education sales have grown in US since iPad debut, weakening Apple cannibalization worries

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 
The Mac's long history of success in the education market hasn't been slowed by the introduction of Apple's more affordable iPad, as Mac sales to schools and students have instead grown since the iPad first launched in 2010.




The Mac's continued success in education was highlighted on Monday by analyst Charlie Wolf with Needham and Company. He noted that U.S. education sales of the Mac during the years since the iPad was introduced are higher than the comparable period before the iPad was introduced.

"Since U.S. education sales have been virtually flat over the past seven years, we find the Mac's performance to be nothing less than outstanding," Wolf said in a note to investors, a copy of which was provided to AppleInsider.Success with both the Mac and iPad helped Apple reach education sales of $1 billion in a single quarter for the first time last year.

"The fact that Mac sales held steady indicates that the iPad did not cannibalize Mac education sales. Rather, the dramatic growth of iPad sales in the education market reflects the discovery by schools and universities of new uses for the iPad that were not possible with traditional PCs."

Though Mac sales to the U.S. education market have grown, Apple's iPad has still proven to be a more popular platform for education buyers. Since the launch of the iPad in 2010 through the end of calendar 2013, Apple has sold more than 7 million iPads in the U.S. educational market, compared to 5.7 million Mac sales during the same period.

Rather than cannibalizing Apple's own Mac sales, there is instead evidence that the iPad is eating away at sales of traditional Windows PCs to both schools and students. Apple itself has said its tracking shows the iPad accounts for 94 percent of tablets being used in education.

"It's sort of unheard of -- I've never seen a market share that high before," Apple Chief Executive Tim Cook said last fall. "So we feel like we're doing really well here, and feel great to be making a contribution to education."

Success with both the iPad and the Mac helped Apple to reach new heights in education sales last year. The company revealed last October that education sales topped $1 billion for the first time ever in the company's third fiscal quarter of 2013.
post #2 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

...Wolf said in a note to investors, a copy of which was provided to AppleInsider.

"Hi, I'm an investment analyst and I need to publicize my services. Can you post this under the guise of an article on your website?" 1wink.gif

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #3 of 29

Misleading title. Apple is not afraid by auto-cannibalization (Cook states this many times).

post #4 of 29

I remember attending the school board meeting in my town when it was announced that the Windows/PC platform had been chosen for deployment in the district. Some parents had worried that their kids would’t be able to make it in the world if they didn’t use a “real” computer in school. Then when the kids got to a “real” school like the University of Illinois they found Macs all over the place, even in the engineering labs. It was quite shock. My how times have changed.

post #5 of 29
Currently iOS(7) can be seen as crippleware for the iPad, although the size has to be 12 or 13 inch to be really workable.
There is no reason to omit a true unix shell and desktop applications like Xcode except ofcourse the certain end of the notebook.
post #6 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by knowitall View Post

Currently iOS(7) can be seen as crippleware for the iPad, although the size has to be 12 or 13 inch to be really workable.
There is no reason to omit a true unix shell and desktop applications like Xcode except ofcourse the certain end of the notebook.

A direct port of Xcode on the iPad and a "Unix shell" for a consumer device?

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #7 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by knowitall View Post

Currently iOS(7) can be seen as crippleware for the iPad, although the size has to be 12 or 13 inch to be really workable.
There is no reason to omit a true unix shell and desktop applications like Xcode except ofcourse the certain end of the notebook.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


A direct port of Xcode on the iPad and a "Unix shell" for a consumer device?

 

I don’t know what planet these types come from but they’re out there… way out there.

post #8 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


A direct port of Xcode on the iPad and a "Unix shell" for a consumer device?


I don't necessarily view it as a consumer device. It can be leveraged in a lot of ways. iPads have been adopted for flight simulations. They could be used for sign ins. In many cases software developed in house to run on an iPad can displace older turnkey style solutions. I don't think cannibalization was too great of a concern for them after the first couple iterations. It outpaced the Macs on growth to a point where there's really no way that OSX products would have made as much. You can look at estimates of how many macs shipped prior to the iPad and extrapolate some kind of growth estimate. Even if it hadn't leveled off, they wouldn't have kept up. In spite of that I don't think it would be fun to use Xcode on an iPad. I do use Xcode. My displays are 17" for the notebook, 21" for an older secondary display (really old, it's 1600x1200 if that tells you anything), and 24". It's much easier to spot typos on the large display when scanning large amounts of text. There are times where punctuation errors aren't caught by the IDE, so screen real estate helps. I'm sure people would use it if it was available, but I don't think it would become the dominant Xcode tool.

post #9 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


A direct port of Xcode on the iPad and a "Unix shell" for a consumer device?

Why a direct port? I didn't mention that (but perhaps even that will work because it already does when I use a virtual desktop on my iPad).

Otherwise yes, last time I checked MacBooks are consumer devices.

The point is of course that iPads can be used as a desktop class computer (GPU and CPU power is on par with the best desktop computers a few years ago and cannot be compared to the 25MHz PPC NeXT station that ran Interface Builder and the Unix shell without a problem).

So, whats holding Apple back?

post #10 of 29
Originally Posted by knowitall View Post
Currently iOS(7) can be seen as crippleware for the iPad

 

Not really.

 

Originally Posted by knowitall View Post
So, whats holding Apple back?

 

Your misconceptions first, the laws of physics second. 

 

I’ve no doubt they’ll make a 12/13” iPad soon. First in line when they do. Can’t do it yet, though.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #11 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by knowitall View Post

Why a direct port? I didn't mention that (but perhaps even that will work because it already does when I use a virtual desktop on my iPad).
Otherwise yes, last time I checked MacBooks are consumer devices.
The point is of course that iPads can be used as a desktop class computer (GPU and CPU power is on par with the best desktop computers a few years ago and cannot be compared to the 25MHz PPC NeXT station that ran Interface Builder and the Unix shell without a problem).
So, whats holding Apple back?

1) You wrote "desktop applications like Xcode" instead of "an iOS version of Xcode" or simple "Xcode." I interrupt your use of "desktop applications" to mean you want the Xcode app that runs on a Mac to work the exact same way on iOS.

2) Running a VNC of an x86 desktop OS on a mobile device is not the same as running a VM of an x86 desktop OS on a mobile device.

3) What's holding Apple back from putting a Unix shell and Xcode on their iPad, iPhone and iPod Touch? Your assumption seems to be a lack of ability when you should be wondering why they should add it simply because you are able to conceive it. I refer to Pages and Numbers taking a step back on the Mac and iCloud so they can be inline with the iOS (read: touch) versions and "1000 no's for every yes."
Edited by SolipsismX - 3/18/14 at 12:28pm

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #12 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


1) You wrote "desktop applications like Xcode" instead of "an iOS version of Xcode" or simple "Xcode." I interrupt your use of "desktop applications" to mean you want the Xcode app that runs on a Mac to work the exact same way on iOS.
2) Running a VNC of an x86 desktop OS on a mobile device is not the same as running a VM of an x86 desktop OS on a mobile device.

3) What's holding Apple back from putting a Unix shell and Xcode on their iPad, iPhone and iPod Touch? Your assumption seems to be a lack of ability when you should be wondering why they should add it simply because you are able to conceive it. I refer to Pages and Numbers taking a step back on the Mac and iCloud so they can be inline with the iOS (read: touch) versions and "1000 no's for every yes."

 

1) You interpreted wrongly.

2) Is it? The input model is the same and it works ok via VNC (apart from the lag). But I am not interested at all in running a virtual machine on iOS.

3) How dare I ask such questions? I am free to ask what I want and it is a no brainer in this case.

I simply want to use my computer as a computer with no artificial restrictions.

The iPad could be the perfect computer and if Apple doesn't act the world will be an Android place and I wouldn't want to relive the Dark Ages of Windows. 

Perfectly reasonable I would say.

post #13 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by knowitall View Post

1) You interpreted wrongly.
2) Is it? The input model is the same and it works ok via VNC (apart from the lag). But I am not interested at all in running a virtual machine on iOS.
3) How dare I ask such questions? I am free to ask what I want and it is a no brainer in this case.
I simply want to use my computer as a computer with no artificial restrictions.
The iPad could be the perfect computer and if Apple doesn't act the world will be an Android place and I wouldn't want to relive the Dark Ages of Windows. 
Perfectly reasonable I would say.

No, it's not the same thing. With a VM all the processing is done locally. With VNC the processing is done on the machine you're connecting to on a network.

Sure, Apple choose not to add a mouse pointer option or drivers for mice/trackpad to iOS so it's technically an "artificial limitation" but it's foolish to think that's going to come to iOS or that it'll be the downfall of the iOS platform because you want it to act just like a desktop OS There are two decades of failed Tablet PCs and 4 years of iPads that prove Apple did it the right way. You don't have to like it, but you either have to accept it or make your own competing produce where you think there is an untapped market.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #14 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

Not really.

 

 

Your misconceptions first, the laws of physics second. 

 

I’ve no doubt they’ll make a 12/13” iPad soon. First in line when they do. Can’t do it yet, though.

 

Yes really.

No misconceptions here, they must be on your side.

Yes they can, they won't because it would seriously hurt the MacBook.

post #15 of 29
Originally Posted by knowitall View Post

Yes really.

 

So back up your ludicrous claim, then. This ought to be good.

 
Yes they can, they won't because it would seriously hurt the MacBook.

 

1. Apple couldn’t care less about cannibalizing.

2. Apple couldn’t care less about a new future product killing sales of an old past one.

3. If you didn’t realize that touchscreens were the future of computing in January 2007, it’s too late for you.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #16 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


No, it's not the same thing. With a VM all the processing is done locally. With VNC the processing is done on the machine you're connecting to on a network.

Sure, Apple choose not to add a mouse pointer option or drivers for mice/trackpad to iOS so it's technically an "artificial limitation" but it's foolish to think that's going to come to iOS or that it'll be the downfall of the iOS platform because you want it to act just like a desktop OS There are two decades of failed Tablet PCs and 4 years of iPads that prove Apple did it the right way. You don't have to like it, but you either have to accept it or make your own competing produce where you think there is an untapped market.

You should think a little bit bigger than that (and I don't want iOS to act like a desktop OS, never mentioned that).

post #17 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

So back up your ludicrous claim, then. This ought to be good.

 

1. Apple couldn’t care less about cannibalizing.

2. Apple couldn’t care less about a new future product killing sales of an old past one.

3. If you didn’t realize that touchscreens were the future of computing in January 2007, it’s too late for you.

I explained my point very clearly, what exactly do you not understand?

1.) they do, otherwise I would be typing on a 12/13 inch iPad.

2.) true, when they estimate that the new product will generate even more profits.

3.) I realized that far before 2007.

post #18 of 29
Originally Posted by knowitall View Post
I explained my point very clearly, what exactly do you not understand?


How “iOS 7 can be seen as crippleware” is “explaining a point very clearly”.

 
1.) they do, otherwise I would be typing on a 12/13 inch iPad.

 

“It hasn’t happened yet, therefore it is impossible to happen” is not an argument by any stretch of anyone’s imagination.

 
2.) true, when they estimate that the new product will generate even more profits.

 

And?

 
3.) I realized that far before 2007.

 

Funny that you should be arguing against it, then.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #19 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by knowitall View Post

You should think a little bit bigger than that (and I don't want iOS to act like a desktop OS, never mentioned that).

You're the one that stated you want desktop applications on iOS and to have no artificial limitations. Bottom line, if you want everything included just because it's technically possible then Apple will never fit your needs.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #20 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
1. Apple couldn’t care less about cannibalizing.

 

Good. So where's the xMac?

post #21 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

You're the one that stated you want desktop applications on iOS and to have no artificial limitations. Bottom line, if you want everything included just because it's technically possible then Apple will never fit your needs.

It's a bit of a no brainer.
In a few years time every computer will be a tablet and even the keyboard whiners will use them (albeit using a wireless keyboard).
So software for developers, artists and everyone else must run on it to be useful and key components such as a Unix command shell must be available.
If Apple doesn't do it others will, perhaps less elegant and clever but eventually it will work and most people will use it.
It's a bit of a hurdle for Apple because developers (and everyone else in his right mind if you think of it) need a MacBook or Mac as companion for the iPad.
An iPad-PRO would change all that, and Apple gets only $500 out of a possible sale of €2500, and that's a big deal.
The current iPad is a bit small for this to happen, but a borderless 12 inch version with high resolution would be ideal.
post #22 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


How “iOS 7 can be seen as crippleware” is “explaining a point very clearly”.

“It hasn’t happened yet, therefore it is impossible to happen” is not an argument by any stretch of anyone’s imagination.

And?

Funny that you should be arguing against it, then.

Try again.
post #23 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by knowitall View Post

In a few years time every computer will be a tablet

No it won't.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #24 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by knowitall View Post


It's a bit of a no brainer.
In a few years time every computer will be a tablet and even the keyboard whiners will use them (albeit using a wireless keyboard).
So software for developers, artists and everyone else must run on it to be useful and key components such as a Unix command shell must be available.
 

That makes the least sense of anything. Tablets are great for some things. They're otherwise limited, and it's unlikely that you're going to see them really be able to work with all necessary peripherals as well as drive all older hardware out of the market within a few years. As for Xcode, it's not fun to use an IDE on a small screen. It's too easy to miss typos and things when scrolling through text, and your IDE will not always flag things that produce undesirable behavior.

post #25 of 29
Originally Posted by MacTac View Post

Good. So where's the xMac?

 

It’s the first 600 of those thousand ‘Nos’ they talk about so often.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #26 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post
 

That makes the least sense of anything. Tablets are great for some things. They're otherwise limited, and it's unlikely that you're going to see them really be able to work with all necessary peripherals as well as drive all older hardware out of the market within a few years. As for Xcode, it's not fun to use an IDE on a small screen. It's too easy to miss typos and things when scrolling through text, and your IDE will not always flag things that produce undesirable behavior.

It does make a lot of sense, what limitations are you talking about?

Peripherals are connected via a few hardware busses (USB, Thunderbolt), but connect mainly via Bluetooth and Wifi.

Thats not a problem at all for an iPad.

The small screen is not a problem when its 12 or 13 inch as I stated earlier.

You must of course use one of iOS most powerful features 'pinch and zoom'.

 

As I said before its a no brainer.

post #27 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by knowitall View Post
 

It does make a lot of sense, what limitations are you talking about?

Peripherals are connected via a few hardware busses (USB, Thunderbolt), but connect mainly via Bluetooth and Wifi.

Thats not a problem at all for an iPad.

The small screen is not a problem when its 12 or 13 inch as I stated earlier.

You must of course use one of iOS most powerful features 'pinch and zoom'.

 

As I said before its a no brainer.

 

I've never heard of anyone using bluetooth or wifi to access files needed to compile a program. I don't actually own an iPad at the moment, but I have used them. I wouldn't personally enjoy trying to scroll through a larger program on that screen size.Your options for typing are to allocate a portion of the screen to bring up a virtual keyboard or if you used an external one you would still have to go back to the screen to do that pinch to zoom. It sounds awful (to me) for general use even at 12 to 13". I would still download it, but I wouldn't go through significant revisions on that. It wouldn't be as bad if you were just talking about reviewing code where a keyboard isn't really required and the entire screen can be devoted to code, especially if they came up with a good method to traverse the project quickly in iOS. I don't think it's about competition though. The idevices are their biggest success, so I think they may be more likely to allow cannibalization of the Macs there than they are within the Mac lineup itself.

post #28 of 29

Save your eye sight and buy a bigger screen many eye doctors have told  me that.The i pad will ruin your eyes eventually by using it all the time.

post #29 of 29
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post
Save your eye sight and buy a bigger screen many eye doctors have told  me that.The i pad will ruin your eyes eventually by using it all the time.


You’d think that in the 38 years that personal computers have had screens we would have seen any instances of this crop up already.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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