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Apple ends Windows 7 support in Boot Camp for new Mac Pro

post #1 of 81
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Professional Mac users who depend on Apple's Boot Camp to run legacy Windows applications may need to reconsider upgrading to the latest Mac Pro as Apple has dropped support for Windows 7 on the redesigned desktop.

Windows 8 Boot Camp


Users attempting to install Windows with Apple's dual-boot solution are prompted to install "Windows 8 or later" by the setup assistant, according to independent Mac developers Twocanoes. Apple subsequently confirmed the changes with an update to its Boot Camp support documentation uncovered by MacWindows.com.

The change is unlikely to please professional users who will be forced to choose between upgrading to Windows 8, migrating their Windows 7 environment to a virtualization package, or choosing a different Mac. The oft-maligned Windows 8 has suffered much the same fate as Windows Vista, largely passed over by corporate IT departments and professional users thanks to its controversial architecture and user interface changes.

The new Mac Pro is the first Mac to drop support for Microsoft's previous-generation operating system, but subsequent releases will presumably follow suit. Apple stopped supporting Windows XP and Vista installations beginning with the second-generation MacBook Air, just under two years after the release of Windows 7.
post #2 of 81
Apple does really dumb shit sometimes.

   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

  MA497LL/A FB463LL/A MC572LL/A FC060LL/A MD481LL/A MD388LL/A ME344LL/A

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   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

  MA497LL/A FB463LL/A MC572LL/A FC060LL/A MD481LL/A MD388LL/A ME344LL/A

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post #3 of 81

If you want to use Windows, go buy a Dell.

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post #4 of 81
Yea, I don't get it. Win7 is huge compared to Win8 right now. I'll keep my Win7 as long as I possibly can before I upgrade.
post #5 of 81
What's the big deal about leaving it in? Is this about offering drivers for the Mac Pro HW?

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

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post #6 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by brlawyer View Post
 

If you want to use Windows, go buy a Dell.

There was a recent study done on laptops that found that the Macbook Pro Retina was the most reliable and highest-rated Windows laptop. Getting a Mac device gets you higher build quality and reliability than most Windows devices, as well as letting you run OS X if you need. 

post #7 of 81

It could easily be a hardware issue or a licensing issue with Microsoft. Who knows? One way to find out would be to boot up with an external drive or USB stick, reformat the Mac Pro hard drive and see if you can install Windows 7 in a separate partition. My guess is the PCIe flash memory is not compatible. 

post #8 of 81
This isn't terribly surprising to me (even though I know Win 8 sucks a lot more than Win 7)

I would also bet you can't install any Mac OS earlier than 10.9 on this computer either (Duh).
post #9 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS11 View Post
 

Why Dell?

 

Actually you're right: stick to Mac; don't use Windows at all.

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post #10 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

Apple does really dumb shit sometimes.

 

On purpose too. Why should Apple give a dump whether Windows will run on their machines? If you can produce any survey or study that proves Apple sells more machines because it can run Windows then please do so. Anecdotal “my cousin needs this” doesn’t count. I see this as a stick-it-to-em move.

post #11 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

Apple does really dumb shit sometimes.

Microsoft doesn't support booting Windows 7 on the Surface Pro. And that's supposed to be a PC, not a Mac.

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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #12 of 81
VMware screams on my nMP with Windows 7. I'm not suggesting it is used for high end PC games but it runs X-Plane for Windows which isn't too shabby. I don't do this normally, it was just an experiment. For normal applications is faster than many PCs I would suspect.
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post #13 of 81
Windows 8 has been widely shunned & licences can still be purchased for Windows 7. This is a poor move for Apples customers who require bootcamp.
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post #14 of 81

You can probably still install it with bootcamp, I was able to install XP after they dropped support.  You just reboot the computer from CD after bootcamp makes the partition for you.

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post #15 of 81

Apple is always first to get rid of the unnecessary cruft of outdated legacy crap.

post #16 of 81
If you buy a Mac, don't expect old windows OS support, why surprised?
post #17 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by brlawyer View Post
 

 

Actually you're right: stick to Mac; don't use Windows at all.

  The mid range MacBooks on down down have much need for running Windows.  But in a pro environment, which is the market for this machine, some people are totally OS X-centric but do need to go into Windows occasionally.  It can't be avoided for what they do.  What Apple should be doing, IMO, is not give anyone any reason to spend any time in front of a non-Apple computer.  They can't give them a good reason to never, ever enter into Windows, because they haven't set the stage for that.  It's not about how superior one OS is, it's about certain things that exist in one which have no suitable equivalent in the other.  

 

They're opening the door for someone who has never purchased any non Apple computers in their life to have to go buy that first $1,000 Windows laptop.  I simply think it behooves them to not let that happen.

post #18 of 81

I use a Toshiba. It runs my iTunes fine, unless Apple messes up the iTunes installer. I've had no problems with reliability. 

 

I use a Dell Precision for work, it works fine as well. But for home use and decent pricing on Windows, I'll stay with Toshiba as my home Windows machine. 

post #19 of 81
Well, not to worry about buying Apple for all those old Windows applications than...Ipad and Windows tablet work side by side just fine.
post #20 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post
 

 

On purpose too. Why should Apple give a dump whether Windows will run on their machines? If you can produce any survey or study that proves Apple sells more machines because it can run Windows then please do so. Anecdotal “my cousin needs this” doesn’t count. I see this as a stick-it-to-em move.


If I could not install Windows at all on a MacBook Pro, I would just switch to a Hackintosh instead. As a software engineer that writes multiplatform applications, it is just easier to be able to boot into the operating system of choice.

post #21 of 81

This likely due to EFI/UEFI. Apple is likely removing CSM and requiring Secure Boot. Windows 7 does not support Secure Boot and would require Apple to make a backward compatible video firmware for lack of CSM. I would expect to see this requirement on all future Macs.

 

-PopinFRESH

post #22 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

On purpose too. Why should Apple give a dump whether Windows will run on their machines? If you can produce any survey or study that proves Apple sells more machines because it can run Windows then please do so. Anecdotal “my cousin needs this” doesn’t count. I see this as a stick-it-to-em move.
Apple created & updates bootcamp for a reason. It generates sales, they're not a charity. If this feature did not add to their bottom line it wouldn't exist.
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post #23 of 81

molehill.

 

the number of affected mac users is small.  The number of Windows users who would buy a Mac Pro only if it supported Win7 is probably smaller (zero... they would have a pile of Win7 systems in their closet).   

 

It's nice fuel for the 'why did apple do this fire' but in the end, it's really not that impactful.   

 

As noted, Apple is ruthless at not supporting a lot of things... the last thing you'd think they'd want to support is a legacy OS from MS.  Whether it be a licensing, a HW/Firmware.

 

If it took 1 HW or SW developer off the cutting edge stuff that Mac HW should be working on... that's 1 too many....

post #24 of 81

Who cares? Windows 8.1 is much better than Windows 7, and you can boot to desktop by default and disable most of the metro stuff.  Windows 7 was released in 2009, it's a 5 year old OS. There's no need for a Mac Pro to support that- and whoever has enough cash for a Mac Pro, and needs to run Windows on it for some reason, can easily pony up the dough for Windows 8. I can understand Apple not wanting to waste resource supporting multiple versions of an OS it doesnt maintain. 

post #25 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by saarek View Post


Apple created & updates bootcamp for a reason. It generates sales, they're not a charity. If this feature did not add to their bottom line it wouldn't exist.

But does it add to the new Mac Pro Bottom Line?   Bootcamp has a purpose, and it's features are market driven, but is it's purpose to run every OS ever built?  No.   Time marches on.

post #26 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

VMware screams on my nMP with Windows 7. I'm not suggesting it is used for high end PC games but it runs X-Plane for Windows which isn't too shabby. I don't do this normally, it was just an experiment. For normal applications is faster than many PCs I would suspect.


I agree. I've been using VMware since the release 3.x days.  As long as one is not using it for hardcore video games, my 2011 MBA runs Windows as fast, if not faster than most dedicated NEW Wintel boxes do.  I don't think people realize that virtual machines have come a long way since the VirtualPC days we'd all like to forget.

Also, it says that Apple doesn't "support" Win7 on the Mac Pros.  I wonder if it will still load under bootcamp just fine.  I'm sure someone is going to try it.

I do agree with the prior poster though.  The Mac Pro users are most likely getting it for work reasons, and I think it's stupid that Apple doesn't support Windows 7.  Win7 is by-far the best of Microsoft's offerings.  Windows 8 is a huge, steaming pile of crap.  I used it for six months here at the office and gave up on it after six months.  I tried again when 8.1 came out and while it's "better", it still nowhere near useable for the enterprise user.  They should create two versions of Win8.  A tablet version with Metro (if they must), and one for PC's with every piece of Metro stripped-out and keep it like the Win7 GUI all the time.

post #27 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

Who cares? whoever has enough cash for a Mac Pro, and needs to run Windows on it for some reason, can easily pony up the dough for Windows 8. I can understand Apple not wanting to waste resource supporting multiple versions of an OS it doesnt maintain.

They tend to prefer supporting just the latest version, which I can understand (DirectX 12 might be Windows 8 only for example just like DX11 wasn't made available for XP) but it forces people to pay Microsoft for OS upgrades. People who use Windows only do so because of the Windows monopoly on software. If the software that runs under Windows ran under the Mac side, nobody would need Windows. Forcing upgrades and lining Microsoft's pockets just promotes this. Apple should do everything they can to make the Windows empire as profitless as possible.

There's not much they can do though - if they didn't support 8 then Mac users might miss out on the latest software APIs; if they supported multiple Windows versions, they have to commit to providing more support for a competitor's OS than they probably want to. If VMWare or Parallels could get their software to work completely like native (no software failures at all like detecting non-native environments and graphics not working properly), that would make dealing with Windows so much better. Even if they can unload the GPU from the Mac and let the VM control it for certain instances and then hand it back, that would be fine.
post #28 of 81
Actually for me, being able to run Windows on a Mac was my tipping point to dive into the Apple world some years ago. I loved the OSX system but my job uses nothing but Windows programs so I couldn't justify buying a laptop that didn't help avoiding the need for 2 laptops.

Although I use Win7 maybe 10% of the time, that 10% is what generally pays my bills so Apple ripping out support would be an issue especially since 7 is still alive and kicking. Luckily I use Parallels so I can avoid that whole train wreck but it is stupid move by Apple nonetheless- Win8 is atrocious and anyone who says otherwise is in denial.
post #29 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post
 

 

On purpose too. Why should Apple give a dump whether Windows will run on their machines? If you can produce any survey or study that proves Apple sells more machines because it can run Windows then please do so. Anecdotal “my cousin needs this” doesn’t count. I see this as a stick-it-to-em move.

 

Because getting people to make the move from Windows to Mac is easier if they know they can run that one Windows-application if they absolutely need to.  Oh, and don't forget about gaming, where the Mac still lags far far behind.  Boot Camp gives the Windows user a security blanket.  And that helps sales.

 

No need for a survey or study to point out the obvious.

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post #30 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

Apple does really dumb shit sometimes.

Maybe I missed the sarcasm here, but this is probably Apple's way of telling MS, "ok, even with the best hardware money can buy, look how crappy your OS is." 

post #31 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS11 View Post
 

Although they're usually not a manufacturer I would jump to, Razer's latest Blade laptop is considerably more powerful and less expensive than a MBPr.  It even uses the similar MBP style chassis and has a 3200x1800 IGZO display.

 

2014 Razer Blade

 

Otherwise I find ASUS and Lenovo offer some great products with industry leading performance and reliability.  Not so much a fan of Samsung, HP or Dell.

Everything you just wrote was wrong! sure there is something better than a Mac. the only problem that product doesn't exist!  

 

 

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post #32 of 81

I'm primarily a Windows developer and I can tell you when I attend MS dedicated conventions, the majority of laptops are MBPs.

post #33 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

Apple does really dumb shit sometimes.

Why is it Apple's fault if Windows 8 is Microsoft's dumb shit. 

post #34 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by go4d1 View Post

I'm primarily a Windows developer and I can tell you when I attend MS dedicated conventions, the majority of laptops are MBPs.

Oh please post a picture of all those glowing Apples at a dedicated MS convention. 1biggrin.gif
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post #35 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS11 View Post
 

Although they're usually not a manufacturer I would jump to, Razer's latest Blade laptop is considerably more powerful and less expensive than a MBPr.  It even uses the similar MBP style chassis and has a 3200x1800 IGZO display.

 

 

Otherwise I find ASUS and Lenovo offer some great products with industry leading performance and reliability.  Not so much a fan of Samsung, HP or Dell.

Good luck trying to downgrade Windows 8, many manufacturers are not providing drivers for Windows 7 . And in the case of Samsung customers are told you are not allowed by doing something to the boot partition to make restoring only back to Windows 8 and any Windows 7 installations are unusable. 

post #36 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by iMember View Post
 

Everything you just wrote was wrong! sure there is something better than a Mac. the only problem that product doesn't exist!  

That was not good enough let me put this way: if i go to a store and i want to buy a Mac but some guy starts offer me some suggestions that some PCs are better i'm gonna literally beat that guy 

 

You could say Android it's better than iOS outside or over the internet but Windows pcs better than Mac you can only do it over the internet

 

 

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post #37 of 81

Way more drama than warranted here. As others have said, Windows 7 runs wonderfully in VMWare Fusion, which satisfies the vast majority of people who really need to run Windows apps on their Mac. With hardware support for virtualization in the Intel CPUs for some time now the performance difference when running Windows in a VM for anything other than high end games is very minimal. In fact, there are many benefits to running Windows in a VM, like being able to take snapshots and move entire VMs around with ease. If you don't think you can run heavy duty productivity Windows apps in a VM, you are wrong. Many software development organizations develop entirely on VMs. It's very effective.

 

Serious gamers aren't using Macs anyway, so why would they even care?

 

Remember, we're only talking the latest Mac Pro here, those uber expensive Macs for people who need extremely high end hardware for extremely high end applications. If I was laying down 5-10 grand for a single workstation class Apple computer the fact that it wouldn't boot natively into Windows 7 would be a nit level concern. 

 

The other side of the argument is "Hey Microsoft - make Windows 8 not suck!"

post #38 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by DewMe View Post

Way more drama than warranted here. As others have said, Windows 7 runs wonderfully in VMWare Fusion, which satisfies the vast majority of people who really need to run Windows apps on their Mac. With hardware support for virtualization in the Intel CPUs for some time now the performance difference when running Windows in a VM for anything other than high end games is very minimal. In fact, there are many benefits to running Windows in a VM, like being able to take snapshots and move entire VMs around with ease. If you don't think you can run heavy duty productivity Windows apps in a VM, you are wrong. Many software development organizations develop entirely on VMs. It's very effective.

Serious gamers aren't using Macs anyway, so why would they even care?

Remember, we're only talking the latest Mac Pro here, those uber expensive Macs for people who need extremely high end hardware for extremely high end applications. If I was laying down 5-10 grand for a single workstation class Apple computer the fact that it wouldn't boot natively into Windows 7 would be a nit level concern. 

The other side of the argument is "Hey Microsoft - make Windows 8 not suck!"

100% agree.
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post #39 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post
 

 

On purpose too. Why should Apple give a dump whether Windows will run on their machines? If you can produce any survey or study that proves Apple sells more machines because it can run Windows then please do so. Anecdotal “my cousin needs this” doesn’t count. I see this as a stick-it-to-em move.

Apple sold me my Macbook Pro Retina display mid 2012 BECAUSE it could run windows. As an engineer, I need windows because many of the applications I use are for windows only. Without the i7 and windows support, I would be doing just fine on a Dell, Samsung, or another computer that I would have selected. However, since my macbook pro runs windows 7, I am a happy camper and the laptop is prefect. The day Apple's Macs can not run Windows, is the day I switch back to a pure Windows PC and I can name about a dozen people who will follow me on that one.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by saarek View Post

Windows 8 has been widely shunned & licences can still be purchased for Windows 7. This is a poor move for Apples customers who require bootcamp.

Agreed 100%.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by richlo View Post
 

Why is it Apple's fault if Windows 8 is Microsoft's dumb shit. 

It is a major selling point for many of us to be able to run windows 7, including me.

post #40 of 81
I know at least one "professional user" who used Boot Camp briefly on his first Mac, then got tired of rebooting, and purchased Parallels for Mac.

With that you can run any x86 or x64 OS you want.

Apple's latest move with the Mac Pro and Boot Camp is a huge non-issue. It would neither stop me from buying a new Mac Pro, nor from running Windows 7.

And Windows 8 is just fine if you add Stardock's Start 8 utility. You need never see the "no longer called Metro" interface if you don't want to.
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