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NOKIA : tired products

post #1 of 26
12/13/02 at 10:43pm
Thread Starter 
I've used Nokia products since my first cellphone. These days I see Nokia products and I think "boy do these look old", even if they're new. They need to do a ground-up rehaul of their line!

D
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post #2 of 26
12/14/02 at 3:13am
you raise a good point. a point that i am quite sure is lost on anyone actually working at or involved with design at nokia.
euro design: sleek; modern; uncluttered; minimalist.
i for one have never been able to identify with nokia design. but that is only because i live in japan, maybe, where fons have more individual character, more idiosyncratic.
however, when i am in europe, it is very interesting to me that i often see the same attachment that people have to their mobile, the same kind of feeling that their mobile is an extension of themselves.
so, design is important. but we are a product of our surroundings so design and its significance goes unnoticed and less of a factor.
ofcourse, functionality is yet a completely different point.
thnx
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post #3 of 26
12/14/02 at 3:15am
There're certainly some changes I'd like to see. The six models announced for release in spring 2003 look okay, buy only one (the "luxury" model) has Bluetooth. Bluetooth should not be a luxury.

I like the idea of Pop-Port, so that attachments are standardized.

My greatest concern are the ludicrous keypad designs. Great googly moogly, they're awful.
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post #4 of 26
12/14/02 at 3:30am
[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
<strong>My greatest concern are the ludicrous keypad designs. Great googly moogly, they're awful.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I really like the design of the new 7210 model, but I agree on the keyboard thing.. They are a pain to use!
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post #5 of 26
12/14/02 at 7:17am
Thread Starter 
I agree. Nokia's industrial design AND feature-base seem outdated. In the US the new Sony-Ericssons and the Samsung products lead the pack on features. On the rest of the planet the competition is spread between even more manufacturers. I'd love to walk into a phone shop in Akhibara to see what's available THERE.

It's fairly apparent that the US is doomed to lag behind the innovation curve for the foreseeable future simply because of our service provider's slow migration to modern networks.
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post #6 of 26
12/14/02 at 7:25pm
Ya, I agree.

Nokia need to work harder on its designs. I think they are now more precoccupied with adding more features in their phones instead.
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post #7 of 26
12/14/02 at 9:43pm
I think you guys don't know what you're talking about. I could disagree with almost every point made in this thread, but then again, I am a total phone geek, whereas most people are not.

Nokia makes some really cool phones, but they just aren't out yet. Don't blame Nokia, blame the stupid CDMA providers in the U.S. that just won't die.

Nokia's designs are actually going from being ugly and phone-like, to being sleek and organic. For example:

Old Nokia:


New Nokia:



In general, Nokia isn't my favorite company, but I do like where they are going. They've got some pretty neat ideas for software usage of wireless technologies that they are actually bringing to reality, too, which is even cooler.

Sony-Ericsson is most definitely the kingpin of good designs, good choices of technology, and great U.S. releases... I think that SE is going to rule the U.S. like Nokia does Europe, it is going to be great.
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post #8 of 26
12/15/02 at 6:27am
Thread Starter 
Okay Stunned,
I wasn't talking about plastics, I was talking about features. Look at what the Sony-Ericsson's and the Samsung's offer.

And I say "AMEN" that the CDMA/TDMA providers are what's holding us back here in the States.
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post #9 of 26
12/15/02 at 7:32am
[quote]Originally posted by bradbower:
<strong>Nokia makes some really cool phones, but they just aren't out yet.</strong><hr></blockquote>
But, as I said, only one of the phones that isn't out yet has Bluetooth!

And Nokia's support for SyncML is entirely inconsistent.

Compare the keypad on the "Old Nokia" with that on the "New Nokia"! If you're dialing a number consisting of 2, 5, 8, or 0, you'll be fine, but try getting a 1 or 3 in there.

[ 12-15-2002: Message edited by: Belle ]</p>
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post #10 of 26
12/15/02 at 7:49am
the Nokia 7650 is almost reason enough to move to Asia...



anyway, i'm stuck on AT&T's wireless service plans...but cant find any good phones that will work on it. the "good" ones all seem to be on Sprint. any suggestions for AT&T-compatible phones? i'd like some PDA-type features, but not a stupid looking keyboard attached to it.
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post #11 of 26
12/15/02 at 7:28pm
bradbower, as far as design aesthetics go, you have highlighted the worst of Nokia's recent designs, IMO. I hate the 7210. The keypad is really annoying, and the phone is all glittery and shiny like something you'd find in the Barbie section at Toys я Us. The 6610 is the identical phone with a proper housing:

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post #12 of 26
12/15/02 at 8:24pm
From an ergonomics standpoint the new Nokias seem problematic. The keypad is a mess of differently shaped buttons that all serve the same function. Button shape should vary between function, not within function. The keypad buttons should be basically the same shape to provide consistancy to the touch of the finger. And conversely, buttons that serve different purposes should have very different shapes. I have an old Nokia that have a keypad with consistent shapes, and dialing using only my fingers is actually not that difficult. I have not used one of these new phones, but the inconsistancy would appear to make this more difficult. I would be interested to hear any experiences anyone has had with the new ones. Perhaps the difference actually makes the more more usable, but I doubt it.

Ed
(Ergonomist in training)

[ 12-15-2002: Message edited by: Ed Otten ]</p>
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post #13 of 26
12/16/02 at 1:46am
Actually, only some of the more "out there" newer models are problematic.

I use this phone, the 6510:

and it is excellent. It's the best keypad I've ever used except for my 6210, which is a much larger phone. Actually, many, many people who don't like tiny phones think the 6310i is the best non-color phone out there in terms of features, performance and ergonomics. Built-in bluetooth too.

The very worst phones in terms of keypad usability are those that have rubber keys. I bought a cheap Trium for my maid and it's really hard to press the keys, as they just sponge down under your fingers.

Even when I used old Nokias with rubber keys, I always hated them. Hard keys are much better.

[ 12-16-2002: Message edited by: tonton ]</p>
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post #14 of 26
12/16/02 at 5:42am
The 7210 keypad looks like Worf's head.
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post #15 of 26
12/16/02 at 6:46am
Tonton has a maid.
meh
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meh
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post #16 of 26
12/16/02 at 7:57am
Maybe it's short for maiden. :cool:
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post #17 of 26
12/16/02 at 5:55pm
Actually, she's not my maid anymore, but that's another story.

Just about everyone with kids in HK has a live-in maid. Most are from the Philippines and they are paid about US$460 per month plus room and board.
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post #18 of 26
12/17/02 at 12:18pm
[quote]Originally posted by drewprops:
<strong>

And I say "AMEN" that the CDMA/TDMA providers are what's holding us back here in the States.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Not even close to being true. TDMA definitely, but CDMA is what's keeping the U.S. from truly falling behind. Just ask yourself which countries have the most advanced cellular networks and handsets in the world? The answers are Japan and Korea. What kind of technologies do they use? Not GSM but variants of CDMA.

There's no debate that in terms of actual service (coverage, getting signals everywhere) the U.S. is behind Europe and other countries but you can't seriously say CDMA is holding back cellular technology here in the States. In Europe, they're having major problems trying to upgrade to WCDMA. For example, the Swedish government rejected requests by Vodafone and Orange to push back the date of having an operational 3G network from the end of '03 to the end of '05. Meanwhile, it is a given that by the end of '03 both Verizon Wireless and Sprint PCS will have "true" 3G data speeds.
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post #19 of 26
12/17/02 at 5:36pm
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[quote]Originally posted by tonton:
<strong>Actually, she's not my maid anymore, but that's another story.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Does this have to do with the apparent fact that you now have a girlfriend instead of a wife?

[quote]<strong>Just about everyone with kids in HK has a live-in maid.</strong><hr></blockquote>

So now you have kids too?!? :confused: (Or just a maid?) You certainly have a much better standard of living in HK than you (presumably) had during your sojourn in Switzerland. Being an expatriate in the US hasn't increased my standard of living one iota. In fact, I've spent hundreds of thousands of Dollars on an education I could have gotten for free back home in Switzerland. What is wrong with me?

I should just give in to my wife who wants to move back to sub-Saharan Africa. Then we could have a mansion with a cook, a maid and a driver, all for less then our monthly condo fee here in DC. Of course, we wouldn't have cable TV, DSL and a local Apple Store.

How's that for an off-topic post?

Back on topic: I'd buy a pretty Nokia if it had Bluetooth, SyncML, GPRS and decent enough PIM functionality to replace my Palm.

Escher

[ 12-17-2002: Message edited by: Escher ]</p>
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post #20 of 26
12/17/02 at 8:05pm
Thread Starter 
My first Nokia was a 2160 (I think) which was a big-ass telephone. I loved it because I could find the buttons when driving without EVER looking at the phone.

All young budding designers should consider multi-sensory tactility when designing. Sensory feedback is important. If a blindfolded person can navigate the tool then I'd consider it a successful design. Tools should start with function and grow from there, not the other way around. Screwy little buttons may look cute but they're rarely functional.

As feature sets go you must recognize that Nokia has fallen WAY behind the curve. I'd wager that the size of the company has slowed them down.

The maid stuff is interesting, start a thread in AppleOutsider about it...I'm sure there'll be some interest!

D
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post #21 of 26
12/18/02 at 3:37am
Shaddap already!!!

{Waits for the smell of dirty laundry to waft away.}
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post #22 of 26
12/18/02 at 4:43pm
I'd like to see a 'simple' phone. No extra buttons, no fancy ring tones, just a phone number database. No big display with caller id or call timing. Just a simple wireless version of an old-time, featureless desk phone. Just with the ability to call, answer, store numbers, ring, mute, vibrate, on/off, illuminated display of number dialed.

Someting simple.

Plus, I like the style of the samsung 522? or something. No flip phone.
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post #23 of 26
12/19/02 at 5:01am



I know your post was suppost to highlight development at Nokia, but for me it did the opposite. The phone is basically the same, just with the keys shaped a bit differently!

It's like if the original iMac was a bondi-blue 5400.

Barto
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post #24 of 26
12/23/02 at 2:08pm
[quote]Originally posted by Escher:
<strong>I'd buy a pretty Nokia if it had Bluetooth, SyncML, GPRS and decent enough PIM functionality to replace my Palm.]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Did you check out the new <a href="http://www.my-siemens.com/MySiemens/CDA/Index/0,2730,HQ_en_0_product%253AMW%252FHD%252FHD%252FS5 5%252Fdesc,FF.html" target="_blank">Siemens S55</a>?

[ 12-23-2002: Message edited by: GSpotter ]</p>
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post #25 of 26
12/23/02 at 4:04pm
[quote]Originally posted by GSpotter:
<strong>

Did you check out the new <a href="http://www.my-siemens.com/MySiemens/CDA/Index/0,2730,HQ_en_0_product%253AMW%252FHD%252FHD%252FS5 5%252Fdesc,FF.html" target="_blank">Siemens S55</a>?

[ 12-23-2002: Message edited by: GSpotter ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Nice phone feature wise - cheap appearance though. They use cheasy looking high-gloss silver plastics in places one would expect real metal on a high-end phone.
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post #26 of 26
12/23/02 at 11:32pm
Thread Starter 
And they won't work with my carrier.
I suppose I should just start a thread bashing Cingular's drag-ass slow transition to GSM in our town. Boy if just had ONE WISH tonight it would be that one of you folks would start a Cingular-bashing thread somewhere......


D
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