Apple becoming as bad as Microsoft with iApps - Page 2

[quote]Services are published *by the application*. Mail itself is publishing this Service suite.<hr></blockquote>

Yes, that service is from Mail. other e-mail apps are welcome to add their own services.

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I don't think it's that kind of bug, alcimedes, though for all I know there might be a bug report like this already. This thread has gotten just a bit out of control. As per the usual in online fora 1 = all. One mistake/wrongdoing amounts to everything being wrong and machiavellian. I don't think anyone denies that this e-mail sharing option routing strictly to Mail was wrong, nevermind their motivation. Your attitude about this decision is just that - your attitude.

Apple does stupid stuff sometimes. They don't do it all the time, and besides they aren't in the position of Microsoft which brings another set of responsibilities with their power.

[ 12-30-2002: Message edited by: BuonRotto ]</p>

Nope, I set my mail client to OE, and it works perfectly.

Er, you set your mail client to OE (Classic?) and it (what?) worked perfectly?

iPhoto? Clicking on a link in OW? Inquiring minds want to know...

[quote]just to check this out, i tried to mail a file to myself.

from the "services" option i tried to mail a file to me. it oppened mail.app even though Entourage is set as my default mail program in the Internet settings.<hr></blockquote>

i don't feel like i have much of an attitude here.

i was asking if others have had this problem. if you select a file off the desktop, go to "Services" and try to mail it to yourself, will it launch anything other than Mail.app?

on my machine it won't, although i have Entrouage selected.

in iPhoto, i have the same problem. i can't send photos with anything other than Mail.app, even though i've selected Entourage.

in iSync i can't send files at all. it doesn't work period.

iCal, same problem. not sure what the services are supposed to do the more i use 'em.

has anyone had decent luck with services before?

[ 12-30-2002: Message edited by: alcimedes ]</p>

[quote]Originally posted by alcimedes:
<strong>

i don't feel like i have much of an attitude here.</strong><hr></blockquote> Naw. You just waded into the middle of some.

[quote]<strong>i was asking if others have had this problem. if you select a file off the desktop, go to "Services" and try to mail it to yourself, will it launch anything other than Mail.app?</strong><hr></blockquote>

No, because the Mail.app itself is what is providing the Service. It's *not* a generalized email service, it is a Mail.app service. Period. This is normally how Services are done... an app publishes what it wants to provide for global services. Any app is welcome to do so, so Entourage, Mozilla, or any other mailer can provide its own entry in the Services menu... but they don't. :/

The confusion comes, I think, from the fact that the Service is named 'Mail', which is normal. If you have OmniWeb installed, you get an 'OmniWeb' entry. Apps tend to use their names for the menu item.

[quote]<strong>on my machine it won't, although i have Entrouage selected. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Yup, see above. It's not a general mail routing service, but something published directly by Mail.app.

[quote]<strong>in iPhoto, i have the same problem. i can't send photos with anything other than Mail.app, even though i've selected Entourage.<hr></blockquote></strong>

Now *THAT* is an iPhoto bug.

[quote]<strong>in iSync i can't send files at all. it doesn't work period.

iCal, same problem. not sure what the services are supposed to do the more i use 'em.

has anyone had decent luck with services before?

[ 12-30-2002: Message edited by: alcimedes ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Overall, yes, Services work quite well here.

gotcha, i misunderstood the whole "Mail" moniker. didn't realize they didn't mean e-mail in the general sense, but Mail.app specifically.

strange, i can't mail anything from any applications following the "services" path, even when files are selected, in any application. maybe my OSX is screwy. who knows.

lol, i wouldn't have even cared before, but now i know my services don't work. grrr.

[Off-topic]

[quote]Originally posted by alcimedes:
[QB]strange, i can't mail anything from any applications following the "services" path, even when files are selected, in any application. maybe my OSX is screwy. who knows. <hr></blockquote>

When you say files, do you mean selections in general? For example I can highlight text in this window, or the web address and choose to e-mail it with this service. In TIFFany, I can choose an action from the action catalog and send that too.

Some apps (mainly Carbon ones like the Finder) are flaky with services -- they sometimes show up, sometimes not, sometimes work, sometimes don't. Cocoa apps are pretty reliable since they've hooked into services for so long. Cocoa apps are mainly the ones with services anyway.

[quote]Originally posted by alcimedes:
<strong>gotcha, i misunderstood the whole "Mail" moniker. didn't realize they didn't mean e-mail in the general sense, but Mail.app specifically.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yup, therein lies the problem with generic names.

I'm sending feedback to Apple on this, to have an 'Email' Service that respects the Internet user settings, instead of/with a Mail Service for Mail.app.

[quote]<strong>strange, i can't mail anything from any applications following the "services" path, even when files are selected, in any application. maybe my OSX is screwy. who knows.

lol, i wouldn't have even cared before, but now i know my services don't work. grrr. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Ain't it always the way?

Kickaha, it was through OW. I deleted iPhoto.

Thanks, Spart... that seems to confirm that it's an iPhoto problem and not something more esoteric.

[quote]When you say files, do you mean selections in general? For example I can highlight text in this window, or the web address and choose to e-mail it with this service.<hr></blockquote>

yeah, nothing works for poop. the options are always greyed out. oh well, i didn't really care anyway.

Bah! I go away for a few hours and you guys have all the fun picking apart and shooting down these baseless complaints!

Well, here are a couple things I can add to:
[quote]Originally posted by trumptman:
<strong>Apple has not released the necessary information to allow companies to make cd's that boot into OS X from the cd. (I own Norton and know how much heat they have taken for this)</strong><hr></blockquote>
Kickaha and BuonRotto are right. Drive 10 has shipped on a bootable OSX CD for ages. You can even make your own bootable OSX CDs from a free cocoa app with a nice little GUI that CharlesSoft wrote called BootCD. Norton is the party to blame for being foolish here, not Apple.
[quote]Originally posted by trevorM:
<strong>The whole services thing never works for me. Is it just me or others having the same problems?</strong><hr></blockquote>I suspect you are using services in apps that don't support them. Services function by accessing a selection through the pasteboard server (aka "clipboard" for you Classic junkies). An app has to be written properly to allow the services to "see" your selection. Cocoa apps get text services for free, but Carbon apps have to do a little more work. It is possible, though, because BBEdit and a few others have excellent service support. Shoot, even the poster-child of "bad carbon apps" the Finder supports services in 10.2. Not surprisingly, none of Microsoft's apps support ANY servies.

Here's a test for you. Open TextEdit or Stickies or Mail or OmniWeb and select some text. Choose Services -&gt; Speech -&gt; Start Speaking Text. Does it work?

[ 12-31-2002: Message edited by: Brad ]</p>

I'm too lazy to look right now since I'm about to go out and get drunk, but I did see a workaround for this not too long ago. In fact, the workaround even replaced the logo within iPhoto's main window to reflect the logo of the email app you use like Entourage, etc. I tried this, but since I use Mail,app, I switched back. Come on! Somebody can find this. I might look for it after my hangover subsides. Have a happy New Year!

joe

I investigated what Joe O mentioned and believe to have found the source of this "bug". Opon the iChat package contents and go to the Resources folder. The Mail.scpt AppleScript file is written specifically to use Mail.app. You can rewrite it to activate a different app, but the app muot be ocriptable (like Mail) and you'll probably have to rewrite the script itself with the proper terms for that app for it to work right.

[quote]Originally posted by cowerd:
<strong>
And iPhoto is a carbon app and technically has an OS9 background, from whence most Carbon APIs came.
[ 12-30-2002: Message edited by: cowerd ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

I thought iPhoto was cocoa?

Anyway, here is a link to a patch that lets you use any mail app with iPhoto:

<a href="http://homepage.mac.com/jacksim/software/imp.html" target="_blank">http://homepage.mac.com/jacksim/software/imp.html</a>

I have never used it, so use at your own risk.



[ 01-01-2003: Message edited by: the cool gut ]</p>

I'm pretty sure iPhoto is Cocoa. It uses Cocoa interface elements like image wells and the Cocoa data browser for its Albums column. All those ordering options and the Homepage sharing option are services in the app bundle. The exporting options use the Cocoa plug-in architecture (use Get Info in the Finder to see this).

[...perusing the package contents, it's interesting to see all the unused icons in the application: the enhance feature that isn't implemented, the cropping constraints, the external editor icon, the PhotoCD icon, a size-ti-fit icon, zoom up/down/zoom-to-fit icons, an alternate import icon, etc, etc.]

iPhoto itself is indeed cocoa. I don't know why Kickaha has said otherwise. Some of its frameworks may be carbon, but the app itself is cocoa.

Anyhow, that patching app does just what I said -- it replaces the AppleScript with code linking to specific other e-mail apps. It still doesn't really work as you might suspect at first glance.

[again, off topic but]

I think the reason fror the initial confusion is that since iPhoto doesn't use the now standard Cocoa .nib for its metal appearance (it came out before they developed this for developers so it's a custom job) it appears to be Carbon at first glance.

Anyway, I'm talking too much about a very minor point

[quote]Originally posted by trumptman:
<strong>

Fine some more examples...

Forced migration to OS X..

Appleworks shipped with translators for all different products thanks to an agreement to Datavis. Apple issued an update that broke all these translators. Later they issued an update that put a few of them back.

Apple has repeatedly bought out smaller companies and made their technology Apple only.

Apple does not require you to sign up for .mac (passport) however they terminated several free services that were advertised as part of the operating system for those who chose not to sign up. This included the mac.com email address and iDisk.

Apple has not released the necessary information to allow companies to make cd's that boot into OS X from the cd. (I own Norton and know how much heat they have taken for this)

Apple made people pay for Quicktime Pro keys advertising it as coming with the MPEG2 codec. They then turned around and charged AGAIN for use of that codec.

Apple has refused to allow iDVD to work with anything but an internal superdrive. People and companies have offered driver support or workarounds and then had to withdraw them under legal threat because Apple wanted to sell more high end macs.

I could go on... heck I could go back to when Apple killed the clones when Motorola had a G3 clone lined up ready to sale several months before Apple did. However I think that is enough for now.

Nick</strong><hr></blockquote>

This is complete hogwash. All of it. Microsoft got in trouble for it's anti-competitor attitude. Apple's only actions that could be deemed unfair are the fact that they give their iApps away ... but I think in this day in age, people expect a certain amount of functionality when they drop a couple grand for a computer. In the end, all iApps can be removed, and none of them "break" or interfear with applications that compete with it. Everything else is fair game.

Actually, it was that combined with me misremembering whether iPhoto was able to run on 9. Bad me.