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This is why Apple isn't becoming MS with the iApps...

post #1 of 35
Thread Starter 
First off, while the iApps are becoming more integrated...


And while Apple is shipping its own browser, we find the following at the Apple Developer Connection...

<a href="http://developer.apple.com/darwin/projects/webcore/index.html" target="_blank">WebCore</a>

See, where MS produces closed apps that no one else can benefit from, and which don't operate with anyone else's apps, Apple attempts to provide assistance back to the developer community through allowing them to use the same base libraries.

Don't like Safari? Use the same renderer Apple does, and make your own UI.

Don't like using Mail with iPhoto? Use what you like. iPhoto will attempt to adapt.

Apple isn't perfect, and MS isn't all evil, but:

Apple provides hooks. MS provides walls.

THAT is the difference.
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post #2 of 35
Apple delivers where as MS never fulfills promises.
post #3 of 35
Also during the keynote, on the screen in large letters behind Steve:

"Open Source
We think it's great."

A personal finger from Steve to Bill.

Screed
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post #4 of 35
As a novice I would not notice a subtle things like that. But its important. Its why we, and even many Wintellers, resent Microsoft's control.
And see how relieved we were when it was revealed today that Apple isnt charging for iApps? The thought of Apple becoming more like Microsoft was dreadful.
post #5 of 35
Apple could not succeed using MS's strategy. They used to do it years ago but it didn't work. I think an open strategy is what differentiates Apple from MS, and what may attract users to Apple and away from MS, especially if MS tightens up in the future.

Apple is not MS, and MS's strategy would not work for Apple.
post #6 of 35
<a href="http://news.com.com/2100-1023-979583.html" target="_blank">http://news.com.com/2100-1023-979583.html</a>

[quote]Porten, an engineer in Oslo, Norway, with Trolltech who wrote the original version of KDE's JavaScript interpreter (KJS), said Apple's choice would not only raise awareness and adoption of the software, but boost KDE's development efforts.

Other KDE developers agreed.

"As far as I can judge from the changelog, so far they did some nice improvements to the code which Konqueror, KDE's integrated Web browser, can certainly benefit from," wrote KDE contributor Dirk Mueller. "They also improved KJS."<hr></blockquote>
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post #7 of 35
I sneaked away from work for a few hours to attend a webcast here in town and the energy in the room went WAY up when Steve got to the part about how much these improvements were going to cost us.

Just WOW....not Microsoft by a long shot.
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post #8 of 35
Apple provides hooks and MS provides walls?

Hmm, please explain to me how I can get iDisk to point at my favorite webDAV server... I would really like to be able to either get rid of the "iDisk" menu choice or have it point to something that isn't .mac.

When a company got iDVD to work with an external drive, did Apple provide a "hook" so that other companies could do the same or did they provide a "wall" so that it couldn't be done anymore?
post #9 of 35
[quote]Originally posted by Brian Paulsen:
<strong>Hmm, please explain to me how I can get iDisk to point at my favorite webDAV server... I would really like to be able to either get rid of the "iDisk" menu choice or have it point to something that isn't .mac.</strong><hr></blockquote>

How about being able to remove the Print menu item if you don't have a printer?
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95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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JLL

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post #10 of 35
But you can print to a pdf via the print menu item. I use it all the time, its great
post #11 of 35
yeah, save as pdf feature if awesome
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post #12 of 35
[quote]Originally posted by Brian Paulsen:
<strong>Apple provides hooks and MS provides walls?

Hmm, please explain to me how I can get iDisk to point at my favorite webDAV server... I would really like to be able to either get rid of the "iDisk" menu choice or have it point to something that isn't .mac.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

I don't agree with your opinion, and I think you may just be being sarcastic but here's your answer:

<a href="http://www.drijf.net/dototto/wwwmac.html" target="_blank">http://www.drijf.net/dototto/wwwmac.html</a>
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post #13 of 35
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by Brian Paulsen:
<strong>Apple provides hooks and MS provides walls?

Hmm, please explain to me how I can get iDisk to point at my favorite webDAV server... I would really like to be able to either get rid of the "iDisk" menu choice or have it point to something that isn't .mac.

When a company got iDVD to work with an external drive, did Apple provide a "hook" so that other companies could do the same or did they provide a "wall" so that it couldn't be done anymore?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Just to be pedantic, and because you apparently didn't read the original post closely:

[quote] Apple isn't perfect, and MS isn't all evil, but:

Apple provides hooks. MS provides walls.
<hr></blockquote>

In general, this is true. Also, in both of the cases you cited, it was directly linked to a revenue stream Apple is rather reliant on. .Mac gets them $25M/yr now, and the server costs are much reduced from the iTools days. Sad? Yup. But smart business.

As to why it isn't a user-definable server target, iDisk provides some nice features that a standard WebDAV server may not... but the average user isn't going to know that. (Want a nasty trojan horse delivery mechanism? Have a worm alter the /etc/hosts file as in the link posted by stupider that points to a malicious server... it *looks* like iDisk, but has apps for download that hose your system in wonderful little ways.) For those of us who have a little Terminal experience, it's a no brainer (once the server is set up, of course). A hack, but a no brainer hack. It isn't like iDisk uses a proprietary system that isn't documented anywhere... heck, Apple ships the ability to create an iDisk server *with every Mac*. What was that about no hooks? (I said they provide hooks, not obvious GUI preferences for novice users to find immediately.)

The iDVD not burning to external drives is one I originally didn't agree with, but... SuperDrives are a MAJOR selling point of Apple's higher end hardware, and are therefore something people will buy a whole computer to get. Since the only legal way you can get iDVD is through purchasing a Mac with a SuperDrive, think of this as an anti-piracy feature. If you have iDVD, and no SuperDrive, you stole the app, and shouldn't be using it anyway.

This may change with iLife, providing iDVD for $49, but I doubt it, in which case I'll reconsider my position on it.

I can't believe I actually responded to this. *sigh*

[ 01-08-2003: Message edited by: Kickaha ]</p>
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post #14 of 35
post #15 of 35
[quote]Originally posted by Elric:
<strong>But you can print to a pdf via the print menu item. I use it all the time, its great </strong><hr></blockquote>

I was being sarcastic.
JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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JLL

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post #16 of 35
Ok, perhaps I'm missing something basic then or else all of you don't mind paying Apple $99 for basic service (and also don't mind when it's down, like it was over New Year's Day)

Personally, I set up my own domain because I got tired of having to tell everyone when my email address changed. I now have an email address that follows me for life and virtually no restriction on disk space. This has already started to diminish the value of the .mac services.

I then added a webserver and decided I should build my own webDAV server.

A couple of things I noticed about iDisk, and it's perhaps a reason you guys might want to think a few times about it...

1) It communicates over straight HTTP. I hope you don't use that password for anything else, because any hacker can get at the information.

2) Since it communicates over HTTP, I hope you don't use it for backing up any sensitive documents. Again, a hacker can read it easily.

What would I like to have? Throw something into utilities that lets you define where idisk is pointed. Sure, it will default to <a href="http://www.idisk.com," target="_blank">www.idisk.com,</a> but you could easily override. Yes, other things may break, and you could easily pop-up a warning when you change the entry saying that some iDisk features may not work.

I would even aceept a nice terminal way to do it. Modifying /etc/hosts, though really doesn't work that well for me. Due to the way my ISP is set up, port 80 is closed, so I have my webDAV server on a different port. Now, I could play with Apple's version of ipchains/iptables to forward the request to the correct server, but what a pain...

Oh, and don't let me forget. Yes, I would really prefer it if Apple could get webDAV services to work over https. I don't know about you guys, but I don't enjoy hackers having access to any of my passwords/files.
post #17 of 35
[quote]Originally posted by Kickaha:
<strong>

In general, this is true. Also, in both of the cases you cited, it was directly linked to a revenue stream Apple is rather reliant on. .Mac gets them $25M/yr now, and the server costs are much reduced from the iTools days. Sad? Yup. But smart business.
</strong>
<hr></blockquote>
I don't want to defend Microsoft here, but this same argument can easily be applied to anything they have done. Many of the evil things we accuse them are directly related to their revenue streams.

[quote]
<strong>
As to why it isn't a user-definable server target, iDisk provides some nice features that a standard WebDAV server may not... but the average user isn't going to know that.
</strong>
<hr></blockquote>

I posted an answer to that. When a user changes the server, a dialog box could pop up warning the user that they may have reduced services. It could even say something like "For full service, sign up with the .mac services suite"

[quote]
<strong>
(Want a nasty trojan horse delivery mechanism? Have a worm alter the /etc/hosts file as in the link posted by stupider that points to a malicious server... it *looks* like iDisk, but has apps for download that hose your system in wonderful little ways.) For those of us who have a little Terminal experience, it's a no brainer (once the server is set up, of course). A hack, but a no brainer hack. It isn't like iDisk uses a proprietary system that isn't documented anywhere... heck, Apple ships the ability to create an iDisk server *with every Mac*. What was that about no hooks? (I said they provide hooks, not obvious GUI preferences for novice users to find immediately.)
</strong>
<hr></blockquote>

As you said, it's a fairly simple hack and also subject to worm abuse. I'm almost surprised that Apple just didn't put something into their DNS lookup code that would ignore an idisk.com or mac.com address in the /etc/hosts file. Perhaps in 10.2.4 ... If we think the revenue stream is that valuable to them, they will do this at some point.
[quote]
<strong>

The iDVD not burning to external drives is one I originally didn't agree with, but... SuperDrives are a MAJOR selling point of Apple's higher end hardware, and are therefore something people will buy a whole computer to get. Since the only legal way you can get iDVD is through purchasing a Mac with a SuperDrive, think of this as an anti-piracy feature. If you have iDVD, and no SuperDrive, you stole the app, and shouldn't be using it anyway.
<hr></blockquote>
</strong>
Not actually. iDVD was provided with every copy of Jaguar. To the best of my knowledge, it just doesn't install by default if you don't have a SuperDrive. Or, are you saying that Apple is selling stolen goods?

Also, Apple is SERIOUSLY missing the boat about disabling iDVD. The main people affected are the following: G3 owners and laptop owners. I think Apple could sell a lot more hardware if they let G3 owners use the software. As soon as the realize how slow it is and how fast it could be, I think a lot of people might start saving pennies for new hardware. For laptop owners, who wants to carry an external DVD writer with them? Let them start out using external drives and when they see how much they use it, they would also probably consider getting new hardware.

[quote]
<strong>
This may change with iLife, providing iDVD for $49, but I doubt it, in which case I'll reconsider my position on it.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

If we believe that Apple's goal is to sell hardware, it's doubtful that it would change. Getting $50 for software is peanuts compared to what they get for hardware sales. I suspect that they will release something like DVD Studio Express for $400 and that will give them the profit margin that they desire.

[ 01-09-2003: Message edited by: Brian Paulsen ]

[ 01-09-2003: Message edited by: Brian Paulsen ]</p>
post #18 of 35
[quote]Originally posted by Brian Paulsen:
<strong>iDVD was provided with every copy of Jaguar.</strong><hr></blockquote>Wrong. Examine the packge contents on the Jag CDs with Pacifist -- iDVD is nowhere to be found. Perhaps you are confusing this with the Restore CDs that come with SuperDrive-equipped Macs, no?
post #19 of 35
[quote]Originally posted by Brad:
<strong>Wrong. Examine the packge contents on the Jag CDs with Pacifist -- iDVD is nowhere to be found. Perhaps you are confusing this with the Restore CDs that come with SuperDrive-equipped Macs, no?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Hmm, possibly. Although, then again, perhaps I shouldn't believe everything I read on the board as I heard that it did come with Jaguar. I haven't actually check it out since I don't have a SuperDrive on my Powerbook, and hence, have no use for the software. Also, my disk space is relatively tight, so even if it was on the CD, I wouldn't install it.

Disk space is tight due to all these videos that I'm waiting to burn to DVD. Sigh... Oh well, soon my Formac Devideon will be here.
post #20 of 35
[quote]Originally posted by Brian Paulsen:
<strong>Ok, perhaps I'm missing something basic then or else all of you don't mind paying Apple $99 for basic service.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well, for starters, I thought we were talking about the iApps and exclusionary tactics, not the scope or features of the .Mac services. I won't argue that .Mac can be trumped by anyone industrious enough to replace them. But is that the point of this thread?
post #21 of 35
[quote]Originally posted by BuonRotto:
<strong>

Well, for starters, I thought we were talking about the iApps and exclusionary tactics, not the scope or features of the .Mac services. I won't argue that .Mac can be trumped by anyone industrious enough to replace them. But is that the point of this thread?</strong><hr></blockquote>

True, we did mention how Apple prevented people from using external drives with iDVD. Other people focussed on the iDisk comments. And... there is iDisk integration within many of the iApps. For example, what if I want to publish my iPhotos to my own webDAV server - it's so much easier if I can just define my webDAV server as my iDisk. Similarly for iCal, iSync, etc.
post #22 of 35
[quote]Originally posted by Brian Paulsen:
<strong>

True, we did mention how Apple prevented people from using external drives with iDVD.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Ah, yeas, I can see the tangent. Well, FWIW I also think it was a bully tactic. Anyhoo...
post #23 of 35
[quote]Originally posted by Brad:
<strong>Wrong. Examine the packge contents on the Jag CDs with Pacifist -- iDVD is nowhere to be found. Perhaps you are confusing this with the Restore CDs that come with SuperDrive-equipped Macs, no?</strong><hr></blockquote>

What about SuperDrive-equipped Macs that I buy today? Is there an iDVD CD included or do I only get it via the restore CD?

[ 01-09-2003: Message edited by: zappy ]</p>
post #24 of 35
post #25 of 35
iDVD is on the restore CD only but Apple has included a software restore application that allows you to get at particular applications on the CD easily.

Jaguar CDs do not include iDVD.

As the first post clearly stated, Apple isn't perfect but they certainly are doing a ton of good work to provide a system based on open standards. I find no fault on Apple's part providing cheap or free apps like the various iApps and tying some of the functionality to .mac Most of these are scriptable. If you want to connect iApp functionality to your own webDAV location...I suspect you could script something to accomplish this.

Anyway...I agree Apple is not remotely becoming MS with iApps or any other product.

[quote]Originally posted by zappy:
<strong>

What about SuperDrive-equipped Macs that I buy today? Is there an iDVD CD included or do I only get it via the restore CD?

[ 01-09-2003: Message edited by: zappy ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
post #26 of 35
This thread has degenerated into a rehash of the .Mac controversy, but I just wish to reinforce the original poster's comments. Concerning .Mac, at least Jobs was candid enough to admit that it was problematic to so many of us. And I think Apple has learned from that process, which is evidenced by the wonderful iLife announcement.

iLife is a real boon for Mac users. Apple has reengineered its iApps to provide improved functionality, yet they're still giving them away for free. Plus, Apple is also providing them in a convenient pacakage, along with iDVD, which is certainly worth $49 alone. The most significant part is that Apple seemingly gave into user pressure over external writers and really did the right thing in that regard. I was quite relieved and impressed by the announcement. The rumor sites only reported a quarter of the story here, and Apple has taught many a good lesson.
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post #27 of 35
[quote]Originally posted by AirSluf:
<strong>

Not really.

All the behind the scenes work is done by Apple already. If you want to export your own you need to write an iPhoto plug-in that knows specifically how you want it to talk to your webDAV server, what protocols you want to uses for those images to display under, incorporate the back-end so someone elses generic browser can see what you have etc...

You can do all those things already, none of the hooks are hidden. You just shouldn't expect to get the rock-star parking spot in Apples OS menu heirarchy, you get that in YOUR menu.

I wouldn't ever expect Apple to do your work to ensure that every possible webDAV server configuration/protocol set-up/back-end combination is compatible with their iApps and iDisk so that you could get a free ride on their code. Your desires need your elbow grease. If you like Apples defaults and accept all the little warts you correctly ID'ed, then you get it all for free. I see no room for complaint on this particular issue.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I never said that I wanted Apple to do the work for me. In fact, if you read my earlier comments, I would be perfectly happy if Apple just throws up a warning message when I change the default location of the iDisk server and that message could say something like this, "Some services and programs may not work correctly when you change the iDisk location. For complete functionality, join the .mac network"

Yes, iPhoto may not work with my webDAV server (although I see no reason why not). As far as not getting the "rock-star" location, I suspect that it's a simple matter that you don't have the issue, so you can't imagine the difficulties.

Here's what I have at home: one linux server that handles the bulk of work (automating the house, mail server, webserver, etc.) Another server that is a 120GB RAID-5 (with spare disks) file server. With this combo, I have plenty of power and a place that all of my important software can sit and it's immune to disk crashes. Furthermore, I can put movies, songs, photos in a place that I can to from anywhere on the internet.

I have absolutely no use for the .mac services. However, I have noted that when I pointed my /etc/hosts to the address of my fileserver (192.168.0.x), I can get some very nice functionality out of the iDisk. All of a sudden, running the backup program works great and I can put files on my RAID server. I imagine I could do similar things with iCal. In fact, I could upload my calendar to my server and then use one of the nice PHP tools so that I can show my calendar on the web.

Here's the problem: the above setup works great when I'm on my internal network. The moment I go to another network, I run into problems. iDisk assumes that I'm going to contact the webDAV server over port 80. My ISP has blocked traffic on port 80, so I run my webDAV server on another port as well. There really isn't a great way to override that (well I could play with the routing tables...) Imagine how simple it would be if I could simply list where my iDisk server should point in some dialog box.

As I suggested, you probably don't have this problem, so you never really thought out the ramifications. The simplest analogy I can give you is imagine if Mail.app would only hook up to .mac rather than letting you type in the name of your POP/IMAP/SMTP server. Yes, you could fake it out by overriding <a href="http://www.mac.com" target="_blank">www.mac.com</a> in your /etc/hosts file, but let's say that Apple stopped that from working. You might then be a bit angry that iPhoto only works with Mail.app for mailing, and you would quite rightly complain that an easy way to fix this would be to let you specify your own SMTP server in Mail.app.
post #28 of 35
post #29 of 35
FWIW, iPhoto, iCal, Safari, etc. as Cocoa apps have a relatively simple plug-in structure that accepts third party extensibility. An obvious example is PhotoToWeb's iPhoto plug-in that allows me to arrange, add copy, make slide shows, and publish my iPhoto pictures instead of Homepage or the built-in web exporter. AFAIK, Apple makes all these apps' plug-in structures accessible to third parties.
post #30 of 35
[quote]Originally posted by AirSluf:
<strong>Your ideas have merit, I just think expecting Apple to allow users to re-map portions of the OS because they have neat ideas isn't a good idea.
</strong>
<hr></blockquote>

Who said anything about remapping portions of the OS? All I want is a line in a file somewhere that reads something like this:
iDisk Server:http://www.mac.com/

I could then change it to the following
iDisk Server:http://www.myserver.com:30000/

As is stands now, since they don't have a file like that (VERY un-unix like, by the way), I now have to do the OS remapping thing that you suggest.

I'm at a complete loss on how you think the average user would be too stupid to handle something like this. If they can be counted on for entering network preferences and connecting to webDAV servers in the first place, I think this would be well in the range of their skills.
post #31 of 35
Thread Starter 
Sorry to drag this out, but...

You can redirect the iDisk to a WebDAV server of your choice.

It's hardly Apple's fault that *your ISP* has chosen to block port 80... which is just idiotic. Have you tried changing ISPs, by any chance? Would certainly let you do exactly what you want to here.

Not saying that Apple couldn't provide a better hook, but blocking 80?

I think that folks here have provided some very good reasons why *THE AVERAGE USER* would be really freakin' confused if iDisk suddenly acted differently than they expected.

Warning dialogs are ignored by most people. Heck, most people can't remember if they changed anything a week ago. You, or I, or a lot of the geeks on these boards would adapt just fine. My Mom? My 84 year old great aunt? Hardly. It would just cause problems.

Now, if you'd like to whip up an iDisk replacement suite (with the hooks for iPhoto, publishing a website, etc, etc), I'm sure the rest of us would be thrilled to put it on our own WebDAV servers. T'would be a big help to the community.

I don't think that we're trivializing the problems you've run into attempting to re-implement .Mac on your local WebDAV server, but rather pointing out that it's not trivial to do so in a way that the average user is going to be happy with.

Us uber-geeks can handle a lot of cruft when we're doing something non-standard. Joe Sixpack won't tolerate it, and that's what Apple is obviously trying to avoid by not putting a silly simple iDisk redirect field in the System Preferences.

So... why *don't* you run ipfilter and redirect <a href="http://www.idisk.com:80" target="_blank">www.idisk.com:80</a> to whatever you want for outgoing packets?? Seems simple, easy... and provided for by Apple.
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post #32 of 35
[quote]Originally posted by Kickaha:
<strong>Sorry to drag this out, but...

You can redirect the iDisk to a WebDAV server of your choice.

</strong>
<hr></blockquote>

Splitting hairs here, but it is an important point that I will hit upon later. I can redirect where <a href="http://www.mac.com" target="_blank">www.mac.com</a> points, I am not technically redirecting the iDisk server. It's just a fortunate side-effect. I will explain later why this is an important distinction.

[quote]
<strong>
It's hardly Apple's fault that *your ISP* has chosen to block port 80... which is just idiotic. Have you tried changing ISPs, by any chance? Would certainly let you do exactly what you want to here.
</strong>
<hr></blockquote>

No argument there. My ISP also happens to be my cable modem provider. Since I enjoy always on access, switching just isn't an option. As you point out, it's just plain idiotic. What is interesting, however, is that they leave port 443 open. If Apple would someday allow their webDAV client to work over https, that would solve a number of issues.

[quote]
<strong>
I think that folks here have provided some very good reasons why *THE AVERAGE USER* would be really freakin' confused if iDisk suddenly acted differently than they expected.

Warning dialogs are ignored by most people. Heck, most people can't remember if they changed anything a week ago. You, or I, or a lot of the geeks on these boards would adapt just fine. My Mom? My 84 year old great aunt? Hardly. It would just cause problems.
</strong>
<hr></blockquote>

Fair enough. How about putting the tool in somewhere in the utilities folder? Surely, if Apple trusts people to use NetInfo, this shouldn't be asking much more. And, if you don't like that idea, I would be very happy if it was in a file that you had to modify by getting into the terminal and doing something like "sudo emacs /etc/idisk.location". Surely, your 84-year old great aunt isn't going to do that by accident.

[quote]
<strong>
Now, if you'd like to whip up an iDisk replacement suite (with the hooks for iPhoto, publishing a website, etc, etc), I'm sure the rest of us would be thrilled to put it on our own WebDAV servers. T'would be a big help to the community.
</strong>
<hr></blockquote>

Rather than emulate iPhoto, I would use Gallery (a PHP photo suite tool). Backup already works. There is already a PHP tool for reading calendars. For the most part, I have almost everything I need except for getting iDisk to point to the right location.

Also, I don't care about some of the other things (like publishing a website). So, somebody else will have to contribute those pieces.

[quote]
<strong>
I don't think that we're trivializing the problems you've run into attempting to re-implement .Mac on your local WebDAV server, but rather pointing out that it's not trivial to do so in a way that the average user is going to be happy with.

Us uber-geeks can handle a lot of cruft when we're doing something non-standard. Joe Sixpack won't tolerate it, and that's what Apple is obviously trying to avoid by not putting a silly simple iDisk redirect field in the System Preferences.
</strong>
<hr></blockquote>

Fine by me. Put it in a place then that only the uber-geeks can get to.

[quote]
<strong>
So... why *don't* you run ipfilter and redirect <a href="http://www.idisk.com:80" target="_blank">www.idisk.com:80</a> to whatever you want for outgoing packets?? Seems simple, easy... and provided for by Apple.</strong><hr></blockquote>

As far as I know, you have to specify real IP addresses with ipfilter, not DNS names. This presents a bit of a problem because my ISP also likes to give out dynamic IP addresses. Sure, my address doesn't change often, but as you point out, I would like to set this once and forget about it.

This would be absolutely trivial if there were a file somewhere that had the following line:
iDisk Server : <a href="http://www.mac.com/" target="_blank">http://www.mac.com/</a>

We already know that the iDisk is using DNS to find the right ip-address, so very little would have to change. Also, it wouldn't require hacking the system as much.

I guess what I could do is have a script running as root that would get the IP address of my webDAV server and automatically update ipfilter. That could run in a loop and check every five minutes. In the end, that's probably what I'll end up doing.

I guess you could say that Apple is providing a "hook" for me to do this. I would say that I'm taking advantage of how the system works and that no hooks have really been provided. If it were a "hook", we would see something on Apple's website about how to do this.

[ 01-10-2003: Message edited by: Brian Paulsen ]</p>
post #33 of 35
By the way, let me say something positive about Apple... The X11 port is a huge step in the right direction. When I posted a few months ago on this, I was given basically the same arguments as what I've seen on this thread. (X11 is too complicated, we don't need it, etc.)

I think getting X11 to play well with Aqua is a huge step in the right direction and could be a final nail in the coffin for Linux as a desktop machine. (Linux's role in the server market is fairly safe though)
post #34 of 35
[quote]Originally posted by Brian Paulsen:
<strong>Apple provides hooks and MS provides walls?

Hmm, please explain to me how I can get iDisk to point at my favorite webDAV server... I would really like to be able to either get rid of the "iDisk" menu choice or have it point to something that isn't .mac.

When a company got iDVD to work with an external drive, did Apple provide a "hook" so that other companies could do the same or did they provide a "wall" so that it couldn't be done anymore?</strong><hr></blockquote>

There have been a slew of walkthroughs around the net on how to use a random WebDAV server instead of .mac for most all of the features Apple has integrated into .mac. I thought I saw one of those walkthroughs linked on Apple's own site. Doing precisely what you want to do... I can't recall anyone replacing their iDisk. People mounting other disks as easily - sure.

The DVD business is an extreme irritation from the delightful folks at the DVD Consortia. DVD burning software is supposed to pay a license fee or be shipped with the hardware. Apple didn't pay for licenses to use the software on the unsupported DVD burners. Yes, you can find software to burn DVDs for free - but not from companies that have assets/need to deal with the DVD Consortia to sell drives/make DVD players/etc. I do personally wish they'd tell the consortia where to get off.

EDIT: Sheesh, only a third of the page loaded when I was replying, I hadn't seen people discuss this in more detail.

[ 01-11-2003: Message edited by: Nevyn ]</p>
post #35 of 35
What a bizarre thread.

I think it is important to hash out the differences between Apple and MS. There are some really important issues that need to be not forgotten...and not lost in morass of iDVD angst.

Open source was a hope to add democracy to the capitalism of an MS dominated sector, but it seems to be plateau-ing.

It would be nice if the Linux people would buy Macs so that at least somebody can keep innovating in ways that affect the masses!

Okay, also Apple should charge for .Mac, because everyone who bought an iBook and iMac had to pay for it's development whether they used it or not.

I'm glad the iApps got upgraded for free, but if you want to know why there isn't a $500 iMac drawing in the Wal-Mart crowd....that's one reason.
The Mother of all flip-flops!!
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The Mother of all flip-flops!!
Support our troops by educating yourself and being a responsible voter. Democracy and Capitalism REQUIRE Intelligence and Wisdom if they are to be worth a damn beyond...
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