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Rev. Jesse Jackson targets Apple, Google, HP, others in tech racial diversity campaign - Page 7

post #241 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

It is ripe but how is that working out for us? I agree with the old adage that two wrongs don't make a right. How do we get past bigotry in society if we inadvertently spawn more bigots by treating someone as though they are superior in some way because of a superficial, physical characteristic that is nothing more than a nature variation within the same species?

In some cases it's worked out wonderfully. Again it all depends on what side you're on. Even the best of rights is wrong in somebody's eyes. Freeing the slaves was the right thing to do, but the southerners sure didn't think so.
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post #242 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by cali View Post

Doesn't make you racist. Just an ignorant buffoon.

If by ignorant buffoon you mean correct, then yes.
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post #243 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Did you just say coaching is 100% mental? I know you don't mean to imply minorities can't do the mental aspect of the game.

Why are you comparing to the US pop as a whole?

It's all about opportunity. Right now minorities aren't getting enough opportunities to go on interviews for mgmt positions.

No I didn't mean to imply that minorities can't do the mental aspect.

 

Why wouldn't I compare the NFL coaching population to the US pop as a whole?  It's an awesome job that millions of people would love to have. If 12% of the programmers in the US were black, that would be a sign of healthy diversity, right?  So why not 12% of NFL head coaching positions?

 

Having said that, I have no doubt that in 10 years and in 20 years more and more head coaches will be non-white.  Why?  Because an increasing number of college coaches are non-white and an increasing number of NFL quarterbacks are non-White.  But just because a majority of players are black shouldn't imply that racism is the reason that most coaches aren't black.  The best players don't make the best coaches (necessarily).  

post #244 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


I take issue with this wording. To me, saying "perfect fit for the US population" implies that there is a perfect number to be had. Consider the game of roulette. There are 38 numbers. Over a very long time they will will statistically average out to the same percentage, about 2.6%, but if you take any 38 consecutive results from it would statistically unlikely to have each number represented just once. I'd have worded it as "4 out of 32 is in line with a statistical average" but I don't think we should in any way force this specific average by assuming it's a perfect ratio for all isolated measurements.

I thought it was clear from my wording that I was being sarcastic in the use of the word "perfect."  I was arguing that it's not obvious that minorities are underrepresented in senior coaching positions.  Four black coaches sounds like a tiny number until you realize that it's a tiny number in a really small pool--representing a pretty decent percentage.

post #245 of 270

Recent years?  More than two generations have passed since anything like your scenario has existed, especially in the most populous cities and yet those same cities have the biggest problems.  But you are right, while poor choices are certainly part of the problem, the Democratic party's policies are also a major contributing factor.  Here are some examples:

 

1.  Instead of supporting parents rights to choose schools for the children and holding teachers accountable for their performance, Democrats instead support teachers unions that block any changes to the current educational system, despite the obvious flaws.

 

2.  The huge entitlements  proposed and supported by Democrats make low-income people dependent on government largess. African Americans were not the only ethnic group to be discriminated against 100 or more years ago.  Italians, Irish, Asians, etc. all were victims of inequality and discrimination but the difference is that none of these groups were given handouts and therefore had to fend for themselves.

 

3.  Additionally, African-American leaders like Jackson, Sharpton, and their ilk, who specialize in racial disharmony, have been embraced by the Democratic party. Instead of motivating African Americans to improve their situation, they inspire racial hatred. 

post #246 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by domo1944 View Post

Recent years?  More than two generations have passed since anything like your scenario has existed, especially in the most populous cities and yet those same cities have the biggest problems.  But you are right, while poor choices are certainly part of the problem, the Democratic party's policies are also a major contributing factor.  Here are some examples:

1.  Instead of supporting parents rights to choose schools for the children and holding teachers accountable for their performance, Democrats instead support teachers unions that block any changes to the current educational system, despite the obvious flaws.

2.  The huge entitlements  proposed and supported by Democrats make low-income people dependent on government largess. African Americans were not the only ethnic group to be discriminated against 100 or more years ago.  Italians, Irish, Asians, etc. all were victims of inequality and discrimination but the difference is that none of these groups were given handouts and therefore had to fend for themselves.

3.  Additionally, African-American leaders like Jackson, Sharpton, and their ilk, who specialize in racial disharmony, have been embraced by the Democratic party. Instead of motivating African Americans to improve their situation, they inspire racial hatred. 


There much truth in what you say… But how do we resolve the overarching issue?

I'm almost 75 years old what can I do to help protect the future for my country and my grandchildren?
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post #247 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I'm almost 75 years old what can I do to help protect the future for my country and my grandchildren?

There is nothing you can do to ensure a protected future. Teach them well and let them lead the way and show them all the beauty they possess inside. 1tongue.gif

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post #248 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I'm almost 75 years old what can I do to help protect the future for my country and my grandchildren?

There is nothing you can do to ensure a protected future. Teach them well and let them lead the way and show them all the beauty they possess inside. 1tongue.gif

That ... that is great advice!

Beauty they possess, eh?
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post #249 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Beauty they possess, eh?

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post #250 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by mknopp View Post
 

 

I am sorry, but are you saying that physics and engineering are different based on a person's culture or skin color?

 

Of course, I know that you aren't. I also agree with you that there are certainly some jobs where diversity in cultural understanding is a very valid job criteria. But, your contention that this is somehow a component in every job is absurd and inaccurate.

 

The size of a resistor needed in a circuit or the most efficient way to sort an array is the exact same regardless of whether you are a third generation Harvard engineer or a self taught immigrant from Rwanda. Nature and thus science and engineering care nothing for humanity or its many foibles.

 

Jackson's comments might have been more applicable if he hadn't picked out engineering driven companies as his current scapegoats, but he didn't. Which again, calls into question his reasons for picking companies where cultural diversity isn't a major factor for his emphasis.

 

The problem of minority involvement in STEM fields is much, much deeper than the executives in a few of the companies. To see that all you have to do is look at he make up of STEM fields in the universities around the world.

 

Me thinks the mknopp doth protest a bit too much?

The fact that you felt the need to go and on about a premise (sarcastically and seriously) that neither myself nor Mr. Jackson were implying speaks volumes about how misinformed you are. Jackson didn't pick out engineering-driven companies whose business models don't also focus on human/cultural interaction. He didn't call out JPL, or NASA, or DuPont. He called out Apple, and Facebook and Twitter – hello! Only a person sadly misinformed about the definition of the words "technology" and "humanity" could qualify those companies as not falling into the realm of culture. While science is part of their essence, so is the "application" and interfacing of that science with people and our daily lives. 

 

But even if I charitably entertained your premise for a brief moment and switched the topic to a purely science-focused discussion, as a black engineer myself, I can promise you that the lack of diversity issue (at least in the U.S. which is Jackson's primary concern) is pervasive even in areas you would think should be purely scientific. It's not about somehow looking "deeper". The issue is all around us in varying degrees. Or if you need a more scientific analogy... it's not layers of an atmosphere with board members in an outer mesosphere and we must hope to penetrate down to the Earth's core. It's an entire network of celestial bodies with multiple stars and gradually shifting fields all worthy of investigation. Think bigger than your limited pre-Copernican perspective and see the bigger universe.

post #251 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by mknopp View Post
 

 

I am sorry, but are you saying that physics and engineering are different based on a person's culture or skin color?

 

http://appleinsider.com/articles/14/03/19/rev-jesse-jackson-targets-apple-google-hp-others-in-tech-racial-diversity-campaign

Quote:
Originally Posted by mknopp View Post
 

 

I am sorry, but are you saying that physics and engineering are different based on a person's culture or skin color?

 

Of course, I know that you aren't. I also agree with you that there are certainly some jobs where diversity in cultural understanding is a very valid job criteria. But, your contention that this is somehow a component in every job is absurd and inaccurate.

 

The size of a resistor needed in a circuit or the most efficient way to sort an array is the exact same regardless of whether you are a third generation Harvard engineer or a self taught immigrant from Rwanda. Nature and thus science and engineering care nothing for humanity or its many foibles.

 

Jackson's comments might have been more applicable if he hadn't picked out engineering driven companies as his current scapegoats, but he didn't. Which again, calls into question his reasons for picking companies where cultural diversity isn't a major factor for his emphasis.

 

The problem of minority involvement in STEM fields is much, much deeper than the executives in a few of the companies. To see that all you have to do is look at he make up of STEM fields in the universities around the world.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

OK!

Maybe approach this from another angle ...

Maybe Apple should include a non-white person on their BOD. But, if it is just for appearances, I think it would be a mistake. It should be someone who can reach out and influence other corporations, the disadvantaged and the general public -- and benefit Apple and the world community at large.

My first choice would be Ervin Johnson.

Who'd be your choice?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mknopp View Post
 

 

I am sorry, but are you saying that physics and engineering are different based on a person's culture or skin color?

 

Of course, I know that you aren't. I also agree with you that there are certainly some jobs where diversity in cultural understanding is a very valid job criteria. But, your contention that this is somehow a component in every job is absurd and inaccurate.

 

The size of a resistor needed in a circuit or the most efficient way to sort an array is the exact same regardless of whether you are a third generation Harvard engineer or a self taught immigrant from Rwanda. Nature and thus science and engineering care nothing for humanity or its many foibles.

 

Jackson's comments might have been more applicable if he hadn't picked out engineering driven companies as his current scapegoats, but he didn't. Which again, calls into question his reasons for picking companies where cultural diversity isn't a major factor for his emphasis.

 

The problem of minority involvement in STEM fields is much, much deeper than the executives in a few of the companies. To see that all you have to do is look at he make up of STEM fields in the universities around the world.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

OK!

Maybe approach this from another angle ...

Maybe Apple should include a non-white person on their BOD. But, if it is just for appearances, I think it would be a mistake. It should be someone who can reach out and influence other corporations, the disadvantaged and the general public -- and benefit Apple and the world community at large.

My first choice would be Ervin Johnson.

Who'd be your choice?

My choice would be someone who also has their pulse on more of the arts/humanities since Apple is always touting their belief in the intersection of technology and humanities – unfortunately Alicia Keys is busy with Samsung – someone with longer roots in American culture like a Wynton Marsalis. Or possible someone with deep roots on civil rights issues like a Dr. Cornel West – he would blow their mind in a good way.

If they had to recreate the "Crazy Ones" commercial with people alive today – who would be some of the icons they would choose for that commercial to represent people of color?

 

One way to avoid the issue of just for appearances, my suggestion would be for Apple to go to their own employees or management staff and frankly say "we intend for our board to represent as much of the rich diversity of our industry, customers and employees as possible. Please submit your thoughts and ideas for how our current board could better meet this goal. See where that leads. They might even go as far as inviting a 3rd-party committee into the process the same way they would for improving their enivronmental stance, or foreign labor standards.

 

P.S., I truly appreciate your type of contribution to discussions/threads like this. It offers valuable insight as a departure from the knee-jerk conflicts these issues normally prompt.

post #252 of 270

I have been a professional software developer for 18 years. I have worked with men, women, Chinese, Indians, Vietnamese, Russians, Polish, French, British, Irish, South African, Turkish, Iranian, Dutch and 2 lesbians (Lol, that's not a joke, it's literally true).

 

It is such a diverse profession, that even if people start out racist they surely lose it pretty quickly. So whatever the reason for the small number of black people, I'd be surprised if it was racism. That said, I haven't encountered a black person in the field since university where my computer hardware professor was black.

post #253 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

OK!

Maybe approach this from another angle ...

Maybe Apple should include a non-white person on their BOD. But, if it is just for appearances, I think it would be a mistake. It should be someone who can reach out and influence other corporations, the disadvantaged and the general public -- and benefit Apple and the world community at large.

My first choice would be Ervin Johnson.

Who'd be your choice?

"Sheeeeeeeeiiit.... I done missed the big party!"

Longest thread in quite awhile here.

Like the idea, so my obvious choice would be Neil deGrasse Tyson...1smoking.gif
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post #254 of 270
I'd just like to add my Not So Obvious Choice for BOD of the rather young but very eloquent and wise for her age Lupita Nyong'o

The following free-form round table interview and discussion from Vanity Fair, with Lupita, Oprah, Octavia Spencer, Julia Roberts, Amy Adams (fantasy girlfriend!) and "will you marry me?!" Emma Thompson. Really great stuff from all, and Emma is a bust up... but the jaw dropping starts when that lovely Lupita answers a question. Just awe inspiring what she has ahead of her for a future... In anything she attempts to do... so why not BOD at Apple?!

Must see TV if anyone cares or finds the time. BTW: the question of racism also comes up in the questions as well, and I think everyone handled and answered them rather well. A tough subject for anyone to grasp and/or truly fix, as is evidenced by this extremely long thread here.
http://youtu.be/aj2vqTqxYk8
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post #255 of 270
You do not understand how "equal opportunity" legislation is supposed to work.

You
Quote:
Originally Posted by starflyer View Post

I say hire the best people for the job whatever their color, age, sex etc.

I have a dream that one day people will be hired not for the color of their skin....
post #256 of 270
And that's precisely the problem... The solution is about giving increased support to those minorities to achieve equal representation, per capita.
Quote:
Originally Posted by malax View Post

How many boards can Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice serve on?

The fact is the there just isn't a huge pool of top-notch executive level African Americans to draw from.
post #257 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

...(Whitney Houston YouTube video)...

A good singer, but she made terrible life decisions.
Edited by SpamSandwich - 3/20/14 at 12:33pm

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GOA

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GOA

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post #258 of 270

I'm not far behind you in age but I still think that we can help by voting for candidates in either party who support policies that help people rather then just help themselves get reelected.  For example, I always want to know a candidate's position on charter schools.  Although not always perfect, charter schools generally have a strong record of improving the education of our children.  Parents love them, students love them, and if a candidate is against them, it is pretty obvious that he or she is pandering to teachers unions that are dead set against them. Another example is a candidate's position on Medicare and Social Security. Some people argue that since voters pay into these programs they are not entitlements, but if a program pays out more than it takes in, a portion of the program is by definition, an entitlement.  Because people are living longer than originally projected when these programs were initiated, they are both projected by the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) to go into deficit within the next decade or so. I vote for candidates who have the courage to support changes that fix this problem, like raising the eligibility age for Social Security benefits for those 50 years old or younger.  That gives these "youngsters" enough time to  adjust their savings programs in sync with the change.

post #259 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by bvgk View Post

While we are at it .... lets also bring diversity into NFL , NBA as well

 

Wonder about the diversity of the Rainbow Push??

post #260 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartan View Post

You know, if you're smart and black, you'll make it. Just like if you're smart and white, smart and asian, smart and indian, etc...you'll make it.

Jackson just can't stop playing the race card. He's the typical reverse racist.

Unfortunately The Rev Jesse Jackson is not actually interested in racial equality.  He is interested in keeping black people aroused, and subservient in order to gain power for himself.  Pretty much the same for many of today's black leaders.  We really did have a big problem with racial equality many years ago.  Today we still have a problem in some areas but things improve daily.  If the Rev. Jesse would actually LEAD black people, tell them to work hard, have faith in themselves, and that they are equal things would improve at a much faster rate.  Unfortunately that is not his real agenda.

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post #261 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phone-UI-Guy View Post
 

...You raise interesting points... Look at the new CFO as an example. 

 

Luca Maestri: over 25 years of experience

CFO of Xerox

CFO Nokia Siemens Networks

CFO European Operations General Motors.

Bachelor's in economics: Luiss University in Rome in 1988

Master's of science: Boston University in 1991

Board member of The Principal Financial Group.

 

How many minorities were making it through Bachelor's and Master's programs at this time? We are talking about people who were born in the late 1960's. You can imagine the challenges facing minorities at this time... As a side note, I work in tech and we have a pretty diverse workforce. However, the people will real ambition trying to get to upper management are almost all white and mostly male. This is not the people that have made it, but the people that are hell bent on getting there and working hard to make it happen. Just seems like everyone else is working hard to make a life and going for a grade increase or salary bump, but not the strong push upwards into director/VP/SVP territory. 

Thank you, Phone-UI-Guy. A well reasoned, convincing point you've made – that, for me, presents a true path to minority success, albeit in a generation.

 

I'll see if I can find the source material for the story about a school that requires all (or most) students to take a programming class in the 6th grade. Technology dependance is already here (especially with the Millennial Generation on down) – at least dip your toe in test the programming waters.

 

I'm an artist and as a college kid 30 years ago, I took a course in Basic (0 to 60 in one semester). A Sherlock Holmes – if/then exercise, etc. from what I remember. I didn't have any interest in learning Pascal, Fortran or other languages. I was fascinated by "programming logic". I took a law class, as well, and was surprised to see the parallels in logic there. As I said, I'm an artist (that was raised on the Mac) but to this day, feel I've benefited from this exposure.

post #262 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartan View Post

Well I think we should have a WET awards and TV station. I mean it's only fair right?

The BET is the perfect example of "hey we don't practice what we preach."
Did you really just say that..?! Spartan....ever since blacks were allowed any hope of an opportunity not so long ago all of our racist citizens would say things like they need to get their own....but when blacks took that advice the racists didn't allow that either ( google Black Wall Street ). Now here you are using BET as an example of blacks demonstrating some form of reverse racism....that's so weak. Every other minority has their own tv station...Spanish, Chinese, Japanese, Korean etc...So what you are implying is that blacks can't have their own station promoting themselves...? While everyone else can..? WOW..?! And we do have several WET stations they're called ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX etc...not to mention cable. Now I'm not a fan of Jesse Jackson or his methods, but I do think that corporations have and obligation to reinvest in all underprivileged areas black, white, Hispanic etc...in the form of prep schools / tech programs that will prepare underprivileged youths who have an interest in that field...and the gov't can give corporations huge tax breaks and incentives for doing so...this way everyone benefits. It won't solve all the problems that hundreds of years of racism and class separation has helped cause but it is a step in the right direction.
Edited by watz nex app L - 3/23/14 at 12:52pm
post #263 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by watz nex app L View Post

Did you really just say that..?! Spartan....ever since blacks were allowed any hope of an opportunity not so long ago all of our racist citizens would say things like they need to get their own....but when blacks took that advice the racists didn't allow that either ( google Black Wall Street ). Now here you are using BET as an example of blacks demonstrating some form of reverse racism....that's so weak. Every other minority has their own tv station...Spanish, Chinese, Japanese, Korean etc...So what you are implying is that blacks can't have their own station promoting themselves...? While everyone else can..? WOW..?! And we do have several WET stations they're called ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX etc...not to mention cable. Now I'm not a fan of Jesse Jackson or his methods, but I do think that corporations have and obligation to reinvest in all underprivileged areas black, white, Hispanic etc...in the form of prep schools / tech programs that will prepare underprivileged youths who have an interest in that field...and the gov't can give corporations huge tax breaks and incentives for doing so...this way everyone benefits. It won't solve all the problems that hundreds of years of racism and class separation has helped cause but it is a step in the right direction.

1) There is no such thing as reverse racism. There is just racism.

2) When one decides to exclude others from something one is choosing to adopt segregation. That is what he is talking about with WET, albeit in a horrible way. I don't think BET is aptly named to represent a culture of people that aren't being represented by the ABC, CBS, NBC, and FOX's you mention, but they certainly aren't excluding people that are identified or identify as "black" to be on those channels. That is why these aren't whites-only channels. even though, to this day, they might not have enough of the nation's TV watchers represented but I assure you it's not because they care about the color of their skin, but rather how much green they have in their wallet… which is part of a deeper, longer-term issue that needs to be resolved, but the solution going forward isn't segregation and countering unfairness with other unfairness.


PS: I use quotes around terms like "black" and "race" because as a man of science it's impossible for me to accept these terms except for communicating with others. It also means it's impossible for me to be racist. Why? Because as a man of science I accept evolution and DNA and I know that the difference between all people are genetically slight because the time from the first human to day is trivial with the age even the oldest creature on Earth. IOW, there is no such thing as races in biology. What the ignorant perceive as sweeping visual differences are merely based somewhat on some cultural and environment adaptations that allow for better survival as a species we can (and should) procreate without any issues without producing sterile offspring, which becomes the case before the separation can no longer create offspring as a species diverges. Those are just visual changes like the thickness of skin and quantity of melanin to help protect one from harmful ultra-violet light or Allen's Rule where in warm climates you want to dissipate heat over a larger surface area for a given volume as opposed to the opposite in a cold climate. The one area that there is absolute zero evidence of being better or worse than another so-called "race" is intelligence, morality, and every other part that makes up the human condition. We are one and the same species. I wish we all could accept that premise because the potential for greatness in man is much bigger when we include everyone.
Edited by SolipsismX - 3/24/14 at 6:09pm

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post #264 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

1) There is no such thing as reverse racism. There is just racism.

2) When one decides to exclude others from something one is choosing to adopt segregation. That is what he is talking about with WET, albeit in a horrible way. I don't think BET is aptly named to represent a culture of people that aren't being represented by the ABC, CBS, NBC, and FOX's you mention, but they certainly aren't excluding people that are identified or identify as "black" to be on those channels. That is why these aren't whites-only channels. even though, to this day, they might not have enough of the nation's TV watchers represented but I assure you it's not because they care about the color of their skin, but rather how much green they have in their wallet… which is part of a deeper, longer-term issue that needs to be resolved, but the solution going forward isn't segregation and countering unfairness with other unfairness.


PS: I use quotes around terms like "black" and "race" because as a man of science it's impossible for me to accept these terms except for communicating with others. It also means it's impossible for me to be racist. Why? Because as a man of science I know that evolution and DNA and I know that the difference between all people are genetically slight because the time from the first human wasn't that long ago. IOW, there is no such thing as races in biology. What the ignorant perceive as sweeping visual differences are merely based somewhat on some cultural and environment adaptations that allow for better survival as a species we can (and should) procreate without any issues without producing sterile offspring, which becomes the case before the separation can no longer create offspring as a species diverges. Those are just visual changes like the thickness of skin and quantity of melanin to help protect one from harmful ultra-violet light or Allen's Rule where in warm climates you want to dissipate heat over a larger surface area for a given volume as opposed to the opposite in a cold climate. The one area that there is absolute zero evidence of being better or worse than another so-called "race" is intelligence, morality, and every other part that makes up the human condition. We are one and the same species. I wish accepted that because there the potential for greatness in man is much bigger when we include everyone.
Explain to me how a minority group having their own tv station is unfair to Euro-Americans the majority of the US population that has several stations of which to choose. Do you know first hand if their hiring practices are discriminatory? Maybe minorities want to tell their own story or project a certain image of themselves what is wrong with that...? Is any Euro-American truly affected by this.....hardly not.
post #265 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by watz nex app L View Post

Explain to me how a minority group having their own tv station is unfair to Euro-Americans the majority of the US population that has several stations of which to choose. Do you know first hand if their hiring practices are discriminatory? Maybe minorities want to tell their own story or project a certain image of themselves what is wrong with that...? Is any Euro-American truly affected by this.....hardly not.

Why can't anyone sell their story to any other network? I don't think bigfoot believers are in the majority and it's certainly not an animal but Animal Planet has paid for that crap to be made. What stations have backed Oprah Winfrey or George Lopez's new show? It's not BET, and LET (Latino Entertainment Television), respectively. They are supported by major networks because they feel they can make money off their viewership so I'm not understanding you're premise that these "minorities" need to be allowed corrective discrimination and segregation in order to be succeed. It sounds like you're diminishing the potential of humans by trying to categorize them based on some superficial aspect of their appearance.

That said, I never said I have a problem with BET as there are clear cultural reasons for its existence even those the name of the network implies it's not a culturally based, but racially based, existence. I also stated that you can't have a long-term solution where you fight racism by being racist as it will inevitably bring about a new generation of racists who either a) believe they have a right something because of the color of their skin, or b) feel diminished because of the color of their skin. It saddens me that anyone would want to promote either of those two things.

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post #266 of 270
Anyone can sell their story to any other network and they have......most minorities have sold their stories to the main stream major networks......but for every story that is sold to a major network several others are
rejected....and this is where a minority owned network comes into play.....to pick up and create those shows and stories the major networks reject.....now I ask you again...why is that so wrong? Because the majority of the actors happen to be minorities? If that bothers European-Americans so much then do what minorities have done with the major networks....protest and lobby for more European-American representation on minority stations.
post #267 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by watz nex app L View Post

Anyone can sell their story to any other network and they have......most minorities have sold their stories to the main stream major networks......but for every story that is sold to a major network several others are
rejected....and this is where a minority owned network comes into play.....to pick up and create those shows and stories the major networks reject.....now I ask you again...why is that so wrong? Because the majority of the actors happen to be minorities? If that bothers European-Americans so much then do what minorities have done with the major networks....protest and lobby for more European-American representation on minority stations.

You're not opening your eyes up to see the bigger, longer-term issues at play and I don't really feel like repeating what I've already stated so I'll leave you with this video from an anthropologist about cranial types. Note that even abolitionists were advocating for the release of slaves and using this unscientific, racial book as an argument that it would be fine to release the slaves because their small cranial capacity is proof they will not revolt because they are easily tamed. Your argument in this thread is that this is OK because it's offering a short-term goal even though the long-term goal is the perpetuating of unfairness, segregation, and a statement that people of different skin color should not be treated equally within a society. You may never accept it, but you're wrong.

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post #268 of 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Yes we know what needs to be done but how to go about it. I read a article in the NYT titled 'a tale of 2 schools', both public schools and both received the same funding from the state. One was on the Upper East Side of Manhattan that the children of rich parents attended, and a school in a bad part of Brooklyn.

The parents of the UES school held fund raisers and were able to provide their school with the same resources as the best private schools meanwhile the school in Brooklyn had bake sales and we're only able to raise a few hundred dollars. So how can we fix that inequality?

 

 

The inequality is not money as we spend more per child then we ever have. The further back in history you go, the less was spent on education, and the more educated people were. 

 

What we took out of education: Morality, Discipline, Social Statues.  This coupled with broken homes and a government that will coddle you even when you fail has added to this decline, not the lack of money spent. 

 

Back before the 70's, the Bible was an acceptable means of teaching in most schools. The teaching of social statues such as it is your obligation to add to society, to take care of your family, etc.. Moral absolutes and not just do what you want as long as it feels good. Discipline such as 'those that don't work, don't eat' all attribute to ones need to succeed in life. Succeed as in, get a good job, work hard, save money, pass on good values to your children. All that is eroded now, in the school. 

 

At home, if these values are not taught, once again, you have failure. In the affluent areas, I'm sure these values are taught. In the poor neighborhood the mother (normally the only parent) is working or not involved as much with the child. On the other hand with Dr. Ben Carson his mother was involved and forced her boys to be educated even though she could not read herself. 

 

I do think schools should have the best technology, teachers that are highly skilled, and a firm basis on what life really is. I also think bureaucracy 'steals' the needed funds from schools.  

 

All this to say, there are many more important factors that need to be effectuated than the 'just throw more money' at it political solutions. 

 

Thanks for your reply. 

post #269 of 270

While I agree the best should be hired - The issue is 'who' is doing the hiring. I have had the opportunity of working throughout Silicon Valley and there is a sense that persons outside the Asian or Caucasian group are not deemed as 'qualified'. Then there is the criteria of graduating from a 'reputable' university or college. Hence the result, you get the same cookie-cut outs all from the same basket.  I know plenty of Blacks and Hispanics that do software development and are in the technical field - however they have no desire or have a reluctance to apply to these companies. Just look at the show 'Big Bang Theory'.  These people are branded as being intelligent. So when the others apply there is a sense that 'hiring' person(s) will look at these individuals with a different crucible or scrutiny then the other cookie cut outs - Why? Because these individuals are outside the normal box.

post #270 of 270

Google's HR person was interviewed a while back and remarked about one year they high fived all around for their hiring of 50% of the African American with an I.T. PhD awarded that year.

 

Gwen Ifill correctly guessed:

 

One.

 

Can't hire what's not in the pipeline.

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