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Rumor: Apple prepping 12" MacBook without fan, mechanical trackpad button - Page 4

post #121 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sporlo View Post


I've tried tap to click and it's not as functional or easy to use. With a mechanical click, you can control drag and click 100% independent.

 

Not as functional or easy to use? It's much easier to only tap than use much more force in order to click.

 

Hey, what are you writing - What is 'drag and click'? When would you use it?

I know 'click and drag'. Which I actually use while tapping as  '3 fingers tap and drag'. It's much easier that way!

post #122 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urahara View Post

It''s much easier to only tap than use much more force in order to click.

I usually click with the side of the thumb with my pointer and middle finger on the trackpad doing other functions so this any "time savings" (which I find questionable) from lifting my finger to tap as opposed to a simple application of pressure of an already placed digit is negated by the loss of additional functionality from the multitouch trackpad.

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post #123 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


It doesn't even need to be that complicated. Give the user the same general interface and start up iPad apps full screen as is done now. However give the user enough RAM and CPU horse power to keep the apps running in background, in other words eliminate the multitasking problem. That part of the machine would mostly remain iOS like. However that won't be good enough for many iOS/Mac users.

So you would need to offer more traditional UNIX like facilities. For example:
  1. a "Finder" or file browser of some sort.
  2. a terminal emulator.
  3. scripting facilities such as BASH and especially Python.
  4. the ability to install the vast trove of UNIX software out there including command line apps.
  5. the ability to install drivers as needed (free the I/O ports).
  6. run apps with true multitasking support not just a Apples blessed apps.
Note that none of these really require giving up the full screen nature of iOS apps. The Finder, a terminal emulator, even Pythons Idle could easily be reimplemented as iOS full screen apps. You really don't need to leave behind much of iOS's good features and frankly the jailbreak community has already demonstrated just how powerful iOS can be.

With a larger "laptop" like device, battery life is no longer the huge issue that has keep multitasking of user apps off of iOS. More importantly something as simple as Python support and a finder type app would vastly improve the user experience of an enhanced laptop iOS device.
In the end I can see many ways for Apple to deliver an ARM based "laptop" the above is just one example. The above example being a minimal impact way to enhance the iOS experience. Functionally this machine wouldn't be much different than current iOS machines to most users. The real multitasking wouldn't even be noticed in many cases. The only people using a terminal emulator, Finder and what ever else gets ported, would be those that really could use the features.

There are other ways of course but people can chew on this idea for awhile.

 

I dig it. And if I might add:

 

7. Multi-touch interface as an expected functionality; that way you can do the ultra-thin clamshell cover with keyboard/touchpad. Of course provide the customary iOS touch screen, but having the ability to effortlessly switch between the two would be very useful.

8. Having multiple apps open side-by-side (not necessarily a Windows 8 "snap" feature, but probably along those lines) would also be useful.

9. As for the file search system, Apple is already doing the tag thing in Finder. Use tags to create file structure instead of imposing a traditional file/folder tree. That way apps like Photos, Videos, and the like remain the primary access, but a TagFinder (or whatever you want to call it) would provide additional search capability that could be used to launch a file into a specified app.

10. And the larger device would have more room for more memory.

 

($0.02)


Edited by Howie - 3/23/14 at 12:07pm
post #124 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


I usually click with the side of the thumb with my pointer and middle finger on the trackpad doing other functions so this any "time savings" (which I find questionable) from lifting my finger to tap as opposed to a simple application of pressure of an already placed digit is negated by the loss of additional functionality from the multitouch trackpad.

You have a good technique. Probably comes from using laptops without mouse. I don't have it 'wired' in my brain to use the thumb - on simple mouse I'd used only 2  fingers.

Your method is effective, just not my habit. I prefer to work moving my hand over the trackpad - so that my hand wont' get to stiff. When you'd get  a Carpal tunnel syndrome in your wrist, you'd be probably more inclined to do the same and also to use a tap to click ;). That's why I prefer it.

Cheers.

post #125 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Howie View Post

I dig it. And if I might add:

7. Multi-touch interface as an expected functionality; that way you can do the ultra-thin clamshell cover with keyboard/touchpad. Of course provide the customary iOS touch screen, but having the ability to effortlessly switch between the two would be very useful.

Very doable. One reason I ofTen quote "laptop" when discussing this device is because I don't see it as traditional Apple laptop exactly. What exactly it would be is up to Apple but when people look at a Mac Book Pro this isn't the machine I imagine.
Quote:

8. Having multiple apps open side-by-side (not necessarily a Windows 8 "snap" feature, but probably along those lines) would also be useful.

I'm not sure this is required. It might work and there are certainly situations where it would be an advantage, but I have no problem at all with the using touch to slide or jump back and forth between apps. I works fine for me on an old iPad 3 so a much faster machine with globs of RAM would be fine.
Quote:

9. As for the file search system, Apple is already doing the tag thing in Finder. Use tags to create file structure instead of imposing a traditional file/folder tree. That way apps like Photos, Videos, and the like remain the primary access, but a TagFinder (or whatever you want to call it) would provide additional search capability that could be used to launch a file into a specified app.

That I don't like at all!!😫😫😫😫😫😫

The problem is that tags aren't any easier to use than directories for organizing data. Placing all your data into one directory seems like long term suicide to me.

In any event Apple would have to extend the app API to allow access to a common store location on the iPads secondary store. Why this hasn't already happened is beyond me.
Quote:

10. And the larger device would have more room for more memory.

We size does help but really there is no reason for iPad Air to ship with only 1GB of RAM. For this device though yeah you would need much more RAM. I'm thinking 4GB would be minimal.
Quote:

($0.02)

Honestly I'm not even sure we would get this much from Apple. They seem to have stagnated a bit with the base iOS system. I was rather shocked at the lack of improvement to basic Apps in the iOS 7 release. More gloss than anything.
post #126 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

You're a niche market.

His "market" is essential to what Apple enterprise adoption there is.

Any arm mac won't be just announced, devs have to be given time to recompile. So I can't see this happening. Not now.

Not do I think ARM chips scale to desktop devices. The Mac Pro is where Apple is heading at the top end. Intel will have to be every where else.



Apple could use launch pad type UI to allow iPhone apps to run in Intel macs but.... iPhone apps will look lost on larger screens, won't have access outside their sandbox, etc. they could replace the dashboard widgets though. So that's possible.
Edited by asdasd - 3/23/14 at 2:10pm
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post #127 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by december View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I can see a 12" MBA arriving as 11" is a little small (especially at 16:9) and 13" somewhat convolutes the decision for many buyers with the new MBP designs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by waybacmac View Post

Ever since the rumors of a 12" screen started, I thought instead of a big iPad Apple might reduce the number of laptop models by consolidating the 11" and 13" MBAs, maybe even the 13" MBP.

Ding ding ding! I believe you nailed it -- except the 13" MBP is here to stay; see below.

Since the price difference between the 11" and 13" MBA is only $100, it's really hard to justify going with the 11" on portability alone -- and paying for that portability with its small display. Could as well have priced it at $100 more than the 13", since price really doesn't play any role in the decision for the 11"; at least for me. It sort of is a Pro device; for those who need a full-size keyboard-equipped Mac with them at all times.
And the 13" is basically redundant. Anyone getting a 13" MBA today either hasn't done their homework comparing it to the 13" MBP; or is an idiot for skimping on the upgrades necessary to still be able to enjoy it a year or two down the road:
The only scenario where the 13" MBA is actually cheaper than the 13" MBP is when you're looking at the respective base models. But then you're stuck with 4 GB of RAM and a 1.3 GHz CPU; the 128 GB SSD might in fact be sufficient for many, as there's always external storage (but even that only really works when you're at your desk). Once you bring the specs up to 8 GB of RAM, which at $100 is a no-brainer, and the very reasonably-priced $150 CPU upgrade, you're already looking at $1349; and if you add to that the 256 GB SSD you're at $1549 -- $50 more than a 13" MBP with 8 GB of RAM, 256 GB SSD and a much faster CPU. Plus you're getting a retina display, and even a smaller footprint than the MBA's -- at the cost of a somewhat shorter battery life, and less than 18% more weight.

So if Apple were to consolidate the two into one 12" MBA, and reduce the bezel a little, that could be a very nice replacement for the 11"; preferably at the same $999. And for whom that is too small, there's the 13" MBP starting at $1299 (I had to check -- prices on retina MBPs really have come down!); soon to take the classic MBP's $1199 price point. So there really is no need for a 13" MBA, is there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I am not sure we'll see the MB line come back as the MBA line seems to fill that space nicely.

I bet the name will return; quite possibly with this very sensible 12" notebook. One model, which surely will become the top-selling Mac (that the MBA is now), one name. The 'Air' has been around for 6 years now (it's been six years already? WTF?!), so it sure would be time for something new. Or in this case old. Well, different. 1tongue.gif

I know, quoting my own post; but for reference.

As I just wrote in a PM:
Quote:
And with the 13" MBA being, as you also reckon, pretty much redundant to the 13" MBP, I bet we will see a 12" MBA replacement. Consolidating the line into one screen size, at Retina-level quality; possibly keeping the old 11" MBA around for a while, maybe even for as little as $799. Much like the classic MBP.

Although $899 is more likely.

Quote:
The display on the current 11" MBA is a bit small for my taste; and a bit crappy. [That TN panel has to be the worst panel in Apple's current lineup by far.]
I just noticed that it is in fact 11.6"; so a 12" Retina display would be a perfect replacement, without compromising portability.

This will not only be a popular product, but the best selling Mac ever -- the new MacBook with Retina display. Mark these words.

Mark these words. 1smile.gif
post #128 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

Seriously who uses the press-down-anywhere to click?

When installing a new OS, click is required because the track pad drivers haven't been loaded yet. Presumably Apple will have to utilise a driverless touch sensor.

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post #129 of 171
I think tags have the potential to replace the traditional folder/file system. Essentially, tags are a database built into the Finder. That has great power, and at the moment, Apple have only taken the first steps in incorporating tags. If they decide to go the whole hog and unify them within iOS, they could revolutionise how people organise things.
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post #130 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

You're a niche market.

Only a few would want their old software to work on w new computer??? No way!
post #131 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleSauce007 View Post
 

 

Wrong, wrong and wrong...  

 

iPhones and iPads ARM SOCs have the fastest GPUs around with power to spare. (Imagination Technologies Power VR)

This device will most certainly not use Intel Chips.

 

It will use ARM CPU and Power VR GPU and Flash for storage.

The keyboard and trackpad will be context sensitive on a sapphire glass slab.

It will run iOS with a modern laptop UI that borrows heavily from the iPad Air iOS 7 paradigm.

It will be 64 bit and super efficient and iCloud integrated.

It will run iOS applications that exist today.

 

That, you basically want a iPad 12". And what you are describing is a Hybrid of Desktop and Tablet.

For that? You can get a Windows 8 Tablet aka Surface.

 

Broadwell will bring major Efficiency enhancement to its Iris GPU. Expecting a 50% increase in GPU resources while doubling the performance.

 

I still dont think it will match the performance of its previous gen MBA given only the 50% of previous TDP. That is a very tall order. Unless of coz there is a what's described a Pizo Fan in this thread above or something clever engineering of heat dissipation. 

post #132 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveH View Post
 

??? No "press-down-click then drag" to highlight required at all. (Not even on this idiot PC laptop I'm stuck with right now, and its trackpad and related drivers are barely ready for prime time.)

 

Use "tap-and-a-half"; Tap twice, but don't let your finger lift from the trackpad on the second tap, then drag your finger to the end of the section you want highlight. For that matter, "tap-and-a-half" has worked on Apple mice since long before the first trackpads showed up.

 

Are you running Mavericks? Both my MBA 11" and my Mac Mini with Magic Trackpad run Mavericks, and this method won't work. The word only highlights if I double-tap and lift my finger off. If I do the "tap-and-a-half" the word won't highlight, and nothing happens if I drag my finger to try to highlight other words. 

 

I have two alternative solution to this method:

1) Double-tap to highlight the first word. Then hold down the shift-key and single-tap on another word and it will highlight every word in between. But this method is too tedious! 

2) Triple-tap to highlight the entire sentence. But this method you can't choose the specific words you want to highlight.

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post
 

 

More like it will just make you very angry. You can't speak for others...

 

You don't create or edit documents, spreadsheets, or presentations for work or school? This is a productivity function that I've used every day ever since school, university, and now work. Regardless if you're on a Mac or PC, I'm pretty sure millions of people do this on a daily basis.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post
 

You're showing your lack of a clue...pretty heavily.

 

I highlight plenty of sentences every day. I never click the track pad. Ever. Magic.

 

 

Try writing something more constructive or helpful. Don't BS unless you've got proof to back-up your claim.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirozha View Post


When the multitouch trackpad came out in 2008 on MacBook Air, the way to highlight a sentence and to drag an object was a double tap with hold after the second tap with dragging without letting go after the second tap-and-hold. A couple years layer, Apple came out with a three-finger tap and drag for that purpose. When they did, they obsoleted the double-tap-hold-and-drag method. It can still be enabled, but it's not listed as a gesture in the Trackpad preference pane anymore; instead, it's in the accessibility preference pane.

My first Mac was a 2008 MacBook Air, followed by a 2008 unibody aluminum MacBook 13", followed by a 2009 unibody aluminum MacBook Pro 15". Therefore, I learned my drag using the double-tap-hold-and-drag method. I think the three-finger-tap-and-drag was first introduced in Lion. When I upgraded, I lost my favorite way to do dragging, and I spent some time trying to figure out why it didn't work anymore. Then I found it in the Accessibility preference pane. I tried the three-finger-tap-and-drag method, but didn't like it.

I have seen people who used Macs before 2008 click on the trackpad with one hand and while holding down the trackpad, use the other hand to drag. It looks really strange and outdated to me. I'm sure those who started using Macs with Lion, prefer the three-finger-tap-and-drag method, and consider the double-tap-hold-and-drag method as weird and outdated too.
 
Thank you! Your post was the most helpful for me. Although your solution doesn't work in Mavericks, because there is no such setting in accessibility preference, it gave me some ideas to play around with the trackpad setting and I eventually found the solution to this problem.
 
To do it, you have to enable "Three finger drag" on the trackpad. To highlight, just single-tap without lifting your fingers, then highlight. 
 
Who would have known?!!! The setting description says "Three finger drag. Move with three fingers." WTH?! I guess Apple expects us to figure it out ourself that this function also highlights text?!
post #133 of 171
Oh is that why the double-tap to drag is in the Accessibility section of the System Preferences app? I always use double-tap if I want to drag. The 3-finger drag seems so awkward and inaccurate. I still usually use the mechanical button for highlighting stuff though since it's very precise.
post #134 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

I think tags have the potential to replace the traditional folder/file system.
I don't see it. At least not now, the tags system is more of a distraction when it comes to organizing or finding things on your drive. Worst you would have to use it consistently. Imagine searching for a year old file where you forgot the tags applied to it. If nothing else a traditional file system allows you to narrow things by date.
Quote:
Essentially, tags are a database built into the Finder. That has great power, and at the moment, Apple have only taken the first steps in incorporating tags. If they decide to go the whole hog and unify them within iOS, they could revolutionise how people organise things.

Or turn people's devices into hopeless messes that can't be navigated in traditional manners. I've yet to even use tags on my Mac because they are far more trouble than they are worth.
post #135 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

I don't see it. At least not now, the tags system is more of a distraction when it comes to organizing or finding things on your drive. Worst you would have to use it consistently. Imagine searching for a year old file where you forgot the tags applied to it. If nothing else a traditional file system allows you to narrow things by date.
Or turn people's devices into hopeless messes that can't be navigated in traditional manners. I've yet to even use tags on my Mac because they are far more trouble than they are worth.

I don't think you understand how tags work. A tag is like a smart folder, in that a file can reside in more than one of them.

You're right in that you don't need to use tags now, and because you're familiar with the traditional folders, you're seeing it as a layer of unnecessary complexity. But your argument about not finding things is immaterial; there's no difference to not remembering which folder you put a file as to which tag. And you don't need to remember, because you can always search for a file name or its contents. In addition, tags makes file access easier, because a file may reside under several tags, so whereas with folders, your file can only reside in one place, with tags, your file may be in several, in the sense that it can be listed under several tags. It's a more fluid and flexible system.

When you examine how the folder structure works, it's clunky and antiquated. The way in which one might have to drill down several layers to get to that elusive file is inefficient and was conceived more for the necessity of the computer than the user.
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post #136 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sporlo View Post

I've tried tap to click and it's not as functional or easy to use. With a mechanical click, you can control drag and click 100% independent.


As for no fan? If the hardware isn't severely limited that sounds like a lot of clueless people with overheated computers…

You can do the same with a thumb and a finger on a modern Mac's trackpad that is set up with tap to click. Just press the thumb down and use a finder to drag.
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post #137 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post


In Mavericks, there is no need to click down for logging in at startup, at least with a Magic Trackpad. Tap to click was introduced for this functionality with Mavericks.

just tried it.  User Control - Login window.  Tried to tap to click on my account...nothing.  no response.  click...worked.  Fail!

I'm using a late 2012 MBP running the most current build of Mavericks.  does the same on a restart.  Must be a feature reserved for SSD Macs.

post #138 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

just tried it.  User Control - Login window.  Tried to tap to click on my account...nothing.  no response.  click...worked.  Fail!
I'm using a late 2012 MBP running the most current build of Mavericks.  does the same on a restart.  Must be a feature reserved for SSD Macs.

That seems like an odd feature to give an Apple SSD, unlike TRIM where at least Apple had tested it for their SSDs.

But let's not give up on this but future out exactly what is going on. First, let's make sure we're all using the same language, with the same setup and attempting the same thing.

Are we talking about with FileVault enabled? I have it enabled but I can still lock or logout after the fact.

Are we talking about Display login window as List of users or Name and password? I use the latter for added security.

Are we talking about Tap to click: Tap with one finger being enabled in the Trackpad section of System Preferences or some other feature.

Finally, to be clear, we're talking about simply tapping — not clicking — on the trackpad over a user account's password box to move the cursor to that box. correct?


edit: I used a 2013 15" MBP with Apple's 512GB SSD for the test. I kept FileVault on, enabled Tap to Click with one finger, turned on my Guest account, then logged out. I did not disable FileVault but logging out did not push me out to the FileVault login screen. Tapping did nothing for me on that screen. Any suggestions?
Edited by SolipsismX - 3/24/14 at 8:07am

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post #139 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post
 

just tried it.  User Control - Login window.  Tried to tap to click on my account...nothing.  no response.  click...worked.  Fail!

I'm using a late 2012 MBP running the most current build of Mavericks.  does the same on a restart.  Must be a feature reserved for SSD Macs.

That is correct. This is the only place where you are required to do a physical click. However, if you configure your Mac to log in without having to authenticate, then you will bypass this screen. I'm sure if Apple is considering a trackpad without a physical click, they are going to make a simple config change, and this screen will no longer required a physical click. 

post #140 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by psitthipo View Post
 

 

Are you running Mavericks? Both my MBA 11" and my Mac Mini with Magic Trackpad run Mavericks, and this method won't work. The word only highlights if I double-tap and lift my finger off. If I do the "tap-and-a-half" the word won't highlight, and nothing happens if I drag my finger to try to highlight other words. 

 

I have two alternative solution to this method:

1) Double-tap to highlight the first word. Then hold down the shift-key and single-tap on another word and it will highlight every word in between. But this method is too tedious! 

2) Triple-tap to highlight the entire sentence. But this method you can't choose the specific words you want to highlight.

 

Try writing something more constructive or helpful. Don't BS unless you've got proof to back-up your claim.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirozha View Post


When the multitouch trackpad came out in 2008 on MacBook Air, the way to highlight a sentence and to drag an object was a double tap with hold after the second tap with dragging without letting go after the second tap-and-hold. A couple years layer, Apple came out with a three-finger tap and drag for that purpose. When they did, they obsoleted the double-tap-hold-and-drag method. It can still be enabled, but it's not listed as a gesture in the Trackpad preference pane anymore; instead, it's in the accessibility preference pane.

My first Mac was a 2008 MacBook Air, followed by a 2008 unibody aluminum MacBook 13", followed by a 2009 unibody aluminum MacBook Pro 15". Therefore, I learned my drag using the double-tap-hold-and-drag method. I think the three-finger-tap-and-drag was first introduced in Lion. When I upgraded, I lost my favorite way to do dragging, and I spent some time trying to figure out why it didn't work anymore. Then I found it in the Accessibility preference pane. I tried the three-finger-tap-and-drag method, but didn't like it.

I have seen people who used Macs before 2008 click on the trackpad with one hand and while holding down the trackpad, use the other hand to drag. It looks really strange and outdated to me. I'm sure those who started using Macs with Lion, prefer the three-finger-tap-and-drag method, and consider the double-tap-hold-and-drag method as weird and outdated too.
 
Thank you! Your post was the most helpful for me. Although your solution doesn't work in Mavericks, because there is no such setting in accessibility preference, it gave me some ideas to play around with the trackpad setting and I eventually found the solution to this problem.
 
To do it, you have to enable "Three finger drag" on the trackpad. To highlight, just single-tap without lifting your fingers, then highlight. 
 
Who would have known?!!! The setting description says "Three finger drag. Move with three fingers." WTH?! I guess Apple expects us to figure it out ourself that this function also highlights text?!

The "double-click-hold-and-drag" method DOES work in Mavericks. This setting is located in: 

System Preferences > Accessibility > Mouse & Trackpad > Trackpad Options > Enable Dragging

 

You can choose to "Enable Dragging" "With Drag Lock" or "Without Drag Lock"

 

Choosing "Enable Dragging"  "With Drag Lock" allows you to lock the drag and then lift the finger off the trackpad for a short moment without losing the drag lock. If the finger is lifted for longer than a second, the drag lock is released. 

 

Disabling the "Drag Lock" releases the drag lock as soon as the finger is lifted off the trackpad. 

 

In fact, the "With Drag Lock" option was broken in Mountain Lion, but it was fixed in Mavericks. So, even though Apple relegated this method for dragging to the Accessibility preference pane, Apple is continuing to support it. I much prefer this method to the "three-finger drag," which can be enabled from the "Trackpad" preference pane. 

post #141 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

just tried it.  User Control - Login window.  Tried to tap to click on my account...nothing.  no response.  click...worked.  Fail!
I'm using a late 2012 MBP running the most current build of Mavericks.  does the same on a restart.  Must be a feature reserved for SSD Macs.

Well that's odd. I have a 2008 iMac! In System Preferences, try deselecting tap to click then selecting it. Also, repairing permissions. I used to have to click on the login screen, but didn't need to change anything in Mavericks; it just started working with tap to click.
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post #142 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by psitthipo View Post
 

 

Try highlighting a sentence...you can only do it with press-down-click then drag your finger to highlight. If you double tap to click, it only highlights one word. 

 

Don't do it Apple, you will make a lot of people really angry!

 

That's what the "Three finger drag" option is for. Works fine other than it's a little less difficult to be precise than a single finger/physical button. I'm currently training myself to use tap to click over using my thumb for the trackpad button, it's difficult but I'm getting better at it — kind of like when I finally ditched my mouse.

post #143 of 171

I'm dreaming of a MacBook Air with:

 

1. A 12" 2240x1400 Retina display

 

(This would be the same aspect ratio as both current Retina MacBooks and with the same 220 pixel per inch resolution as the 15" MacBook Pro Retina display.)

 

 

2. A cluster of quarter-sized super quiet piezoelectric fans

 

(The cluster could include one or more fans in proximity to major heat generating components and could use firmware to intelligently pulse the fans on/off in patterns that would maximize cooling airflow where needed according to the specific task the computer is performing while optimizing power savings and potentially canceling out one another's acoustics.)

 

 

3. A multitouch display version of the trackpad

 

Using a full color multitouch display (hey, let's throw in sapphire cover glass) would allow the OS to present context-sensitive actions, including actions that would set a select anchor and actions to determine how to extend a selection, for example - no more awkward click down and hold while dancing with another finger to create a selection on screen).  The possibilities of a full touch display trackpad would be enormous.)

 

These enhancements, taken together, would fit the bill of a revolutionary new computer.

I have enough money to last the rest of my life. Unless I buy something. - Jackie Mason
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I have enough money to last the rest of my life. Unless I buy something. - Jackie Mason
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post #144 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadarTheKat View Post

I'm dreaming of a MacBook Air with:

1. A 12" 2240x1400 Retina display

(This would be the same aspect ratio as both current Retina MacBooks and with the same 220 pixel per inch resolution as the 15" MacBook Pro Retina display.)


2. A cluster of quarter-sized super quiet piezoelectric fans

(The cluster could include one or more fans in proximity to major heat generating components and could use firmware to intelligently pulse the fans on/off in patterns that would maximize cooling airflow where needed according to the specific task the computer is performing while optimizing power savings and potentially canceling out one another's acoustics.)


3. A multitouch display version of the trackpad

Using a full color multitouch display (hey, let's throw in sapphire cover glass) would 
allow the OS to present context-sensitive actions, including actions that would set a select anchor and actions to determine how to extend a selection, for example - no more awkward click down and hold while dancing with another finger to create a selection on screen).  The possibilities of a full touch display trackpad would be enormous.)


These enhancements, taken together, would fit the bill of a revolutionary new computer.

Laptop? Fans? Revolutionary? You're off your rocker.
iPad a Dream.
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iPad a Dream.
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post #145 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

And there again, 3-finger drag is less precise.

Nope, gotta disagree. The only thing more precise than 3 finger drag with a trackpad is a mouse. Pressing down to hold a click and then having to maintain that pressure while trying to exactly highlight....that is absurd, and in no way "easier".

 

I fully understand that whatever you are USED TO is what is "easiest" for YOU. But all things remaining equally, the clickable trackpad button is not the ideal or easiest method for any of it.

post #146 of 171
Originally Posted by pmz View Post
Pressing down to hold a click and then having to maintain that pressure while trying to exactly highlight....that is absurd, and in no way "easier".


You must be joking. “Maintaining that pressure” is hard?! Maintaining “all the way down” is hard?! It’s less than a millimeter. The precision of a single finger is “worse” than the precision of three? Three fingers onto which no pressure is being put, therefore making it that much easier to lose your place and raise one of them while in use? That’s just inherently wrong.

I’ve used them both. I don’t use three finger select anymore. Because it doesn’t work as well.

Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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post #147 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


Very doable. One reason I ofTen quote "laptop" when discussing this device is because I don't see it as traditional Apple laptop exactly. What exactly it would be is up to Apple but when people look at a Mac Book Pro this isn't the machine I imagine.
I'm not sure this is required. It might work and there are certainly situations where it would be an advantage, but I have no problem at all with the using touch to slide or jump back and forth between apps. I works fine for me on an old iPad 3 so a much faster machine with globs of RAM would be fine.
That I don't like at all!!😫😫😫😫😫😫

The problem is that tags aren't any easier to use than directories for organizing data. Placing all your data into one directory seems like long term suicide to me.

In any event Apple would have to extend the app API to allow access to a common store location on the iPads secondary store. Why this hasn't already happened is beyond me.
We size does help but really there is no reason for iPad Air to ship with only 1GB of RAM. For this device though yeah you would need much more RAM. I'm thinking 4GB would be minimal.
Honestly I'm not even sure we would get this much from Apple. They seem to have stagnated a bit with the base iOS system. I was rather shocked at the lack of improvement to basic Apps in the iOS 7 release. More gloss than anything.

 

I'm smellin' what you're cookin'.

 

I should probably have been more clear: more memory and storage. 1) If they're going to operate a 64-bit OS, Apple should probably provide enough memory to match. 2) 512GB on-board storage would be killer. 3) I know Apple is terminating legacy connections with extreme prejudice, but the ability to attach additional (addressable) storage via Lightning might prove useful. 4) Oddball: Apple might consider investing in memory technology that can serve as both memory and storage, making the transfer path between memory and storage virtually non-existent (and blindingly fast).

 

Also, I do think user-defined file structure is the right way to go, but I can't prove it. What I'm thinking is the user-defined tags would enrich the existing OS-defined structure. Users might also be able to tag "shareable" and "non-shareable" items from the same utility. And other such things.

 

As for iOS, the app dock at the bottom needs a serious updating. Also, a newer way to sort among apps (rather than swiping through screen after screen) would be useful. And if Apple doesn't do screen-snapping (or whatever) to switch between apps, a way to effortlessly switch would be needed. Mashing the Home button is a jarring experience. It doesn't feel smooth. I like the pull-down gesture search function on iOS 7. Something like that to trigger app switching would be good. Also the Settings "app" seems to be falling behind. It doesn't seem as intuitive as it used to be. I think that's because Apple keeps expanding iOS' capabilities, thus Settings gets more complex.

post #148 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Howie View Post

I'm smellin' what you're cookin'.

I should probably have been more clear: more memory and storage. 1) If they're going to operate a 64-bit OS, Apple should probably provide enough memory to match. 2) 512GB on-board storage would be killer. 3) I know Apple is terminating legacy connections with extreme prejudice, but the ability to attach additional (addressable) storage via Lightning might prove useful. 4) Oddball: Apple might consider investing in memory technology that can serve as both memory and storage, making the transfer path between memory and storage virtually non-existent (and blindingly fast).
Storage has been a huge issue for me on my old MBP. As such I obviously can't buy an AIR with less storage than I have now internally. More so I know I need more that 200 GB of space. So the base AIRs are a bit useless. After the base price though you then have to seriously consider other Apple laptops.
Quote:
Also, I do think user-defined file structure is the right way to go, but I can't prove it. What I'm thinking is the user-defined tags would enrich the existing OS-defined structure. Users might also be able to tag "shareable" and "non-shareable" items from the same utility. And other such things.
Well I'm not sure what to say here. My impression is that tags are seldom used by the operators of the machines. I really don't see how tags can be less confusing than a directory structure laid out in a browser like Finder. In fact I see tags as making things worst unless Apple provides a way to navigate tags. The thing is once you have to navigate tags what is the difference between that and ordinary file system browsing.
Quote:
As for iOS, the app dock at the bottom needs a serious updating. Also, a newer way to sort among apps (rather than swiping through screen after screen) would be useful.
I'm not sure what the problem here is, you group like apps into folders and you are done.
Quote:
And if Apple doesn't do screen-snapping (or whatever) to switch between apps, a way to effortlessly switch would be needed. Mashing the Home button is a jarring experience. It doesn't feel smooth. I like the pull-down gesture search function on iOS 7.
What is wrong with multi finger swipe up?
Quote:
Something like that to trigger app switching would be good. Also the Settings "app" seems to be falling behind. It doesn't seem as intuitive as it used to be. I think that's because Apple keeps expanding iOS' capabilities, thus Settings gets more complex.

I never like iOS approach to settings. At least nor for user apps. The settings app is great for system features but really sucks for user app management.
post #149 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

In fact I see tags as making things worst unless Apple provides a way to navigate tags. 

 

You mean besides Spotlight and the search field in every Finder window? They do absolutely nothing if you don't look for them, that's the whole point. 

post #150 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


Storage has been a huge issue for me on my old MBP. As such I obviously can't buy an AIR with less storage than I have now internally. More so I know I need more that 200 GB of space. So the base AIRs are a bit useless. After the base price though you then have to seriously consider other Apple laptops.
Well I'm not sure what to say here. My impression is that tags are seldom used by the operators of the machines. I really don't see how tags can be less confusing than a directory structure laid out in a browser like Finder. In fact I see tags as making things worst unless Apple provides a way to navigate tags. The thing is once you have to navigate tags what is the difference between that and ordinary file system browsing.
I'm not sure what the problem here is, you group like apps into folders and you are done.
What is wrong with multi finger swipe up?
I never like iOS approach to settings. At least nor for user apps. The settings app is great for system features but really sucks for user app management.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastasleep View Post
 

 

You mean besides Spotlight and the search field in every Finder window? They do absolutely nothing if you don't look for them, that's the whole point. 

 

  1. Memory/storage: Cost would be a significant factor, unless the device was truly "different," neither a tablet nor a laptop. Microsoft tried to accomplish this with Surface, but in the end they made a full-power-OS laptop with a detachable keyboard. I think Apple could make something better, which is why I previously suggested the hybrid OS that scales between iOS and OSX(-ish) as needed by user demand.
  2. Tagging: As fastasleep notes, the Spotlight feature (and probably similar newer functions) would serve to discover the user-defined structure. The idea is that the user knows his/her tagging structure and so would know what to look for. But the OS itself would still "macro"-level define items by general types (images, documents, presentations, etc.) so the user would also be able to find those items via the typical apps for those items. In the end, the idea is to eliminate the need for a "legacy" file manager/Finder in favor of user-preferred methods. This would eliminate the need for a storage map structure and instead use searchable metadata (or something) within the items themselves.
  3. App launching/switching: Grouping "like" apps might be a good way to go, but the utility of the feature should be intuitive. A user shouldn't need to sift folders to find their desired app. Perhaps Windows 8 might have had a good idea here that Microsoft didn't execute right. Something like Windows 8 swipe out "charms" would be a place to start, and you would find them on both sides of the screen. Sort of like pulling open a drawer and grabbing what you need from it, and once launched the screen would automatically return to its "home" position (behind the app). The bottom dock might be used to switch between multi-tasked apps/games/thingsThe existing iOS drag-down search function is a pretty good feature, but if you make it voice searchable you might as well give Siri the ability to launch apps (which would be about bloody time). The main screen area would thus be available for content/features a user might wish to leave active when not doing other things (e.g. calendar, social network feed, "muted" media/preview, etc.).
  4. Settings: There should be a means of accessing app settings from within/near the app. I do like the swipe-up quick controls iOS has now, which should be a jumping off point for additional settings functions (iOS or otherwise). But beyond that I'm not sure where Apple should go with this.

Edited by Howie - 4/2/14 at 9:24am
post #151 of 171

Tidbit update. From the Intel IDF in China it seems Fanless MBA is all but confirmed.

post #152 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksec View Post

Tidbit update. From the Intel IDF in China it seems Fanless MBA is all but confirmed.

A little more information wouldn't hurt! Links? Is this Broadwell / 14 nm tech or a rehashed Haswell?
post #153 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksec View Post

Tidbit update. From the Intel IDF in China it seems Fanless MBA is all but confirmed.

Not to quote you twice but are you thinking about the so called Braswell chip Intel is talking up? If so that would have to be an extremely low end MBA. Apples A7 would perform about the same.
post #154 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksec View Post

Tidbit update. From the Intel IDF in China it seems Fanless MBA is all but confirmed.

Not to quote you twice but are you thinking about the so called Braswell chip Intel is talking up? If so that would have to be an extremely low end MBA. Apples A7 would perform about the same.

 

How well would Mac OSX perform on an A7? What (if anything) would need to be dropped from OSX to work as SoC?

post #155 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Howie View Post

How well would Mac OSX perform on an A7?
Probably around the speed of a Core Duo. Understand though that an A7 would need adaptation to work well as a desktop processor. The number one concern would be a better memory interface. They would likely need to add some high speed ports to the chip. In the end it would be hard to guess actual performance. I think it is fair to say that current A7 hardware is RAM starved and bandwidth limited.
the other big unknown is how fast can the A7 actually run. 2, 3 or 4 GHz or maybe it is already toped out at 1.6 GHZ.
Quote:
What (if anything) would need to be dropped from OSX to work as SoC?

Nothing! Why do you think this anyways. It is a given that some things would perform differently and the GPU in the A7 doesn't really do OpenCL well. Software though is well soft. If some things do run slower it just means that you don't finish as quickly.
post #156 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


Not to quote you twice but are you thinking about the so called Braswell chip Intel is talking up? If so that would have to be an extremely low end MBA. Apples A7 would perform about the same.


The slide were on some Chinese site. Since not many other western media were publishing report on IDF China. Anand had no news to confirm either.

 

Not Braswell, which many media were quoting as Skylake ( wrong ). But a Slide on possibility of Fanless PC with the Broadwell 14nm running at ~15W TDP range. So basically you dont get any CPU performance improvement from the previous Haswell CPU, you get 50% improvement in GPU, and a large drop of TDP.

post #157 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksec View Post


The slide were on some Chinese site. Since not many other western media were publishing report on IDF China. Anand had no news to confirm either.
Must have missed that too.
Quote:
Not Braswell, which many media were quoting as Skylake ( wrong ). But a Slide on possibility of Fanless PC with the Broadwell 14nm running at ~15W TDP range.
I really see problems with trying to run a fan less laptop at 15 watts. Plug in a 15 watt incandescent light bulb and grab ahold of it. Beyond that passively cooled industrial boards in that wattage range have huge heat sinks. Passive cooling of devices in this power range can be done with a suitable heatsink but most laptops aren't suitable.

There is a potential here if Apple redesigned the milled out chassis to also function as a heatsink. That is about the only way they could get enough aluminum bulk into the machine to effectively cool a 15 watt processor. Making that look good though may be a challenge for Apple.
Quote:
So basically you dont get any CPU performance improvement from the previous Haswell CPU, you get 50% improvement in GPU, and a large drop of TDP.

Sounds about right and frankly is what Apple and the rest of the industry has been demanding of Intel. People want to put Intel into low powered devices and not get crap results. For most uses that means a focus on the GPU and not the CPU. Sucks if you need machines with better CPU performance though.
post #158 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post
I really see problems with trying to run a fan less laptop at 15 watts. Plug in a 15 watt incandescent light bulb and grab ahold of it. Beyond that passively cooled industrial boards in that wattage range have huge heat sinks. Passive cooling of devices in this power range can be done with a suitable heatsink but most laptops aren't suitable.

There is a potential here if Apple redesigned the milled out chassis to also function as a heatsink. That is about the only way they could get enough aluminum bulk into the machine to effectively cool a 15 watt processor. Making that look good though may be a challenge for Apple.

Apple has been doing some high design work to dynamically change clock speed and do some other OS work to move maximum data through the CPU at minimum energy. If they can put something like the M7 in the MBA, they may squeeze out even more flops per watt. As long as Apple is using an industry standard CPU they will be optimizing everything else to make the MBA a better product then similar laptops. Vertical integration at it's best!

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #159 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Must have missed that too.
I really see problems with trying to run a fan less laptop at 15 watts. Plug in a 15 watt incandescent light bulb and grab ahold of it. Beyond that passively cooled industrial boards in that wattage range have huge heat sinks. Passive cooling of devices in this power range can be done with a suitable heatsink but most laptops aren't suitable.

There is a potential here if Apple redesigned the milled out chassis to also function as a heatsink. That is about the only way they could get enough aluminum bulk into the machine to effectively cool a 15 watt processor. Making that look good though may be a challenge for Apple.
Sounds about right and frankly is what Apple and the rest of the industry has been demanding of Intel. People want to put Intel into low powered devices and not get crap results. For most uses that means a focus on the GPU and not the CPU. Sucks if you need machines with better CPU performance though.

I don't think you enter the 'fanless' TPD until you get to 7W.
post #160 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by iRun262 View Post

I don't think you enter the 'fanless' TPD until you get to 7W.
Well it can be done with a huge heat sink but such a heatsink will never fit in a laptop.
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