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Apple's iPhone 5c 'failure flop' outsold Blackberry, Windows Phone and every Android flagship in Q4 - Page 6

post #201 of 289
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Originally Posted by Chez Whitey View Post


Got to give Samsung credit Note 3 is a very good phone & screen size for Notes were ahead of their time.
Really love my 5s & iOS but I will never, not ever buy a 4" phone again.

Nope no credits to them, Samsung Galaxy Note 3 or Samsung Galaxy Tab 3 (in case you lost the S-Pen) is a terrible phone = when you take that thing from your pocket and hold it close to ear to make a call in public you don't look smart at all 

 

 

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post #202 of 289
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Originally Posted by RogueDogRandy View Post
 

it is JUST you


As well as people in Italy and 23 other countries

post #203 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by iMember View Post
 

Nope no credits to them, Samsung Galaxy Note 3 or Samsung Galaxy Tab 3 (in case you lost the S-Pen) is a terrible phone = when you take that thing from your pocket and hold it close to ear to make a call in public you don't look smart at all 

Will you still say that if Apple brings out its first phablet with a 5" plus screen??

Always happy to debate an issue with anyone. Once it turns into name calling, I am out of there. 
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Always happy to debate an issue with anyone. Once it turns into name calling, I am out of there. 
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post #204 of 289

I see a bright future for iPhone 5c and this is coming from someone who hated this phone

 

 

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post #205 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bondm16 View Post
 

Will you still say that if Apple brings out its first phablet with a 5" plus screen??

You mean an iPhone the size of Samsung Galaxy S3 aka phablet? Yes! 

 

 

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post #206 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtschultz93 View Post

It's all about context really. I don't necessarily think the 5C was a flop, it just didn't sell the way Apple expected. This much is clear by Cook's comments. Whether or not it was a failure cannot be determined by a bunch of fan boys or tech blogging haters. If the line is discontinued this fall, I'll take that as a "flop" by the only group that matters, the manufacturer.

As far as DED's sales comparison, I think it's a load of bull. Smartphone release cycles have become like box office numbers. It's not very indicative of success or failure to compare this weekend's release $$ (for even a crappy movie), with one that was released a over six months ago. If Frozen makes more money this weekend than a movie that was released this weekend, the story is "6 month old movie outperforms new studio release", not the other way around..flame on fan boys!

So facts are bull? So when the iPhone beats a newly released galaxy whatever, does than mean the galaxy whatever is a failure?
post #207 of 289
Last Christmas I was in London for a trip and I saw more people using iPhone 5c than any other iPhone model.
post #208 of 289
Thank you, Mr. Dilger, for wielding the flaming sword of truth.
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
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post #209 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric38 View Post

I was just thinking about this the other day; about how the 5c has probably outsold every other phone on the market, yet it's considered a "failure," instead of just missing expected sales figures. Cook should be thrilled that Apple released a cheaper phone, and the vast majority of consumers decided "no thanks, we'll spend the extra $100 plus for your higher quality iPhone."

And yet, even you have been infected with the mantra of 'missing sales expectations', expectations which were never revealed by Apple and haven't been revealed to date.
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post #210 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by brlawyer View Post

Notwithstanding AI's great efforts above, the fact is: the 5C is a FLOP, aka the IIvx/IIvi of the iPhone world.

Even Apple itself admitted that sales were not "in line" (euphemism for "sorry, we haven't sold that many") - besides, they were absolutely sure that it would sell well in emerging markets and lower strata of industrialized markets; but they did not realize that the 5S was just marginally more expensive, particularly when such phones are sold in instalments or with more expensive plans.

In other words, Cook completely misinterpreted demand trends just like what Apple did with the PowerBook when it didn't produce enough units of the specific notebook model really wanted by the public.

I have never seen anyone with a 5C - and I can assure you that the 5C will go down in history as one of Apple's major market failures ever; it will be quietly discontinued in the coming months (or, more appropriately, "superseded" by revamped non-5C models). 

You perpetuate the lie that DED alluded to. I suggest you exorcize that demon from within you.
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post #211 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

Thank you, Mr. Dilger, for wielding the flaming sword of truth.

 

You perpetuate the lie that DED alluded to. I suggest you exorcize that demon from within you.

 

Please Daddy, please tell us the story of how Steve Jobs was crucified on Mt. Cupertino, please...

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post #212 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post
 

 

 

It's really funny why someone might say that the 5c isn't "currently" the 2nd best selling smart phone in the US.

 

Oh... wait...

 

Ha ha.  Well, in looking at the data DED linked the 5c was the second best selling phone on 3 of the 12 carrier quarters with S4 beating it 9 of 12.  The 5c took those 3 spots during the normal Apple spike when they release new products, and in the same quarter it was released it quickly tapered off to currently being beaten by the aging year old S4 on all US carriers again, but it has a lock on third place on all 4 carriers.  That really isn't shabby at all.

 

That does put a little bit of a damper on the article's momentum as presented, but the 5c did outsell the S4 for the quarter because in the one month that it did well it did really really well.  And it probably still is outselling all Win Phones and Blackberry phones *combined*!!  Out of all the phones out there, though, being the third best seller is still extremely good.

post #213 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frood View Post
 

 

Ha ha.  Well, in looking at the data DED linked the 5c was the second best selling phone on 3 of the 12 carrier quarters with S4 beating it 9 of 12.  The 5c took those 3 spots during the normal Apple spike when they release new products, and in the same quarter it was released it quickly tapered off to currently being beaten by the aging year old S4 on all US carriers again, but it has a lock on third place on all 4 carriers.  That really isn't shabby at all.

 

That does put a little bit of a damper on the article's momentum as presented, but the 5c did outsell the S4 for the quarter because in the one month that it did well it did really really well.  And it probably still is outselling all Win Phones and Blackberry phones *combined*!!  Out of all the phones out there, though, being the third best seller is still extremely good.

 

Sure... third place is still very good... but it is definitely not 2nd... at least in November.

 

(some new stats from Cannacord should be arriving shortly)

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post #214 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

Tim cook never said iPhone c sales were flat. He said the portion of iPhone 5s to iPhone 5sc sales was higher than expected.

Well, he never even said that; it's just the presumption we make. If you talk about missing expectations, you're making a negative value judgement. Which in the case of the 5s and 5c is absurd. If you market a phone and a cheaper phone, and it turns out that the more expensive phone sells much better, you're likely to be very pleased if it means that your profits are also much improved. As Tim Cook said, "Different" —which doesn't equate to 'disappointed' or 'failed' which is what 'missed expectations' implies as dishonestly spouted by the men sited in Mr. Dilger's article.
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post #215 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

So facts are bull? So when the iPhone beats a newly released galaxy whatever, does than mean the galaxy whatever is a failure?

Nope. But context of the facts are equally meaningful.


Sales for the launch quarter of the new Galaxy will certainly outpace the same quarter sales of the 5s. So...
post #216 of 289
Want to know what a flop is? Any Nexus phone (like the recent 4 or 5).

The 5C very likely sold more in the last quarter than the Nexus 4 and 5 combined have sold in their entire history.

If that's not a flop, I don't know what is.
post #217 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtschultz93 View Post

Sales for the launch quarter of the new Galaxy will certainly outpace the same quarter sales of the 5s. So...
Lies. No Galaxy has EVER outsold an iPhone in their launch quarter. The only numbers Samsung does publish is how fast phones like the GS3 or GS4 have hit milestones (like 5, 10 or 20 million). And based on those it appears Samsung has never done better than around 6.5 million per month during launch, way lower than Apple does.

In fact, I doubt Samsung launch quarters for their Galaxy phones don't even beat the pre-launch quarter for iPhones (when sales are lowest because of a new iPhone launch coming).
post #218 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

I took the time to read those links, unfortunately, which was a waste of time. So you link to 2 blogs from the same website- one of which contains the word "flop" in the headlines, but then not a single # to back that up, pretty much an opinion piece on why the 5C sucks and other random tangents. The 2nd one is nothing but commenting on the exact same graphs as the third, which is incredibly incomplete and lacks proper context, not to mention being based on a single country. Not a single link is any real "evidence" of anything. And recent metrics have shown that 5C sales are now increasing, after the initial early adopted went for the 5S. 

"Just clear evidence that Cook should have stayed as COO, not CEO."

What a fucking joke. Yeah, let's ignore all of Apple's incalculable successes and excellent products since Cook has been CEO, including smashing all sales records and revenue records almost every quarter- these 2 blog posts from 3rd tier websites are "clear evidence" that Cook is unfit to lead. Because, under Steve Jobs, every fucking product was utterly perfect and immaculate, right? I love how people like you revise and twist history, and raise the bar to ridiculous heights that did not even exist under Steve, so that you can bash Cook. The 5C "failure" (because it isn't, its a success) does not even come close to approaching many of the duds under Jobs- from software to hardware failures- and you know that. Stop being so purposely obtuse, it creates for some pretty shitty trolling, even by your standards. 

I can't imagine what would happen if stuff like the iPod Boombox, MobileMe, Ping, Antennagate, G4 Cube, etc came out under Cook- people like you would probably want to have him lynched, because you've invented insane standards that did not even exist under SJ. You call for Tim's head because the 5C is only the 2nd most popular smartphone in the world- after the 5S- and contributed to record iPhone sales in the last 2 quarters, and expanding the base. Oh no, what a fucking disaster. 

A riposte par excellence. I see DED and you as the Two Musketeers; there must be a third here somewhere.
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post #219 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

Lies. No Galaxy has EVER outsold an iPhone in their launch quarter. The only numbers Samsung does publish is how fast phones like the GS3 or GS4 have hit milestones (like 5, 10 or 20 million). And based on those it appears Samsung has never done better than around 6.5 million per month during launch, way lower than Apple does.

In fact, I doubt Samsung launch quarters for their Galaxy phones don't even beat the pre-launch quarter for iPhones (when sales are lowest because of a new iPhone launch coming).

Take your blinders of bro and do the research..it's happened each of the last two years. Google it!
post #220 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

You perpetuate the lie that DED alluded to. I suggest you exorcize that demon from within you.

He selectively believes only the 'evidence' that agrees with his conclusions.

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post #221 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtschultz93 View Post

Nope. But context of the facts are equally meaningful.


Sales for the launch quarter of the new Galaxy will certainly outpace the same quarter sales of the 5s. So...

You seem confident about a number that has never been released for any Samsung phone ever- sales.

So to correct that, since what you're claiming is arbitrary: sales for the iPhone 5s will certainly continue to outpace same quarter sales even during the launch quarter of the next galaxy iCopy.
post #222 of 289
For the record, this article is based entirely on "analyst's numbers". No one outside of Apple has sales numbers for the 5c.
post #223 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtschultz93 View Post

For the record, this article is based entirely on "analyst's numbers", which this forum generally discredits. Daily. No one outside of Apple has sales numbers for the 5c.. iDiot

What record? Nobody is keeping score.

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post #224 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I have never seen a 5c in the wild. I checked them out at the Apple store and I kind of remember the color schemes. Sometimes it can be difficult to tell because a lot of people have cases so unless you know someone who has one or see it up close there could be some out there that are not immediately recognizable. Apple never said how many were sold so anyone who says there are lots or says there are few, has no facts to support their claim.

Thank you for being truthful about everyone's ignorance as to iPhone 5c sales. You are the first person to do so that nonetheless has anecdotal negative data on the iPhone 5c.
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post #225 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post


Please Daddy, please tell us the story of how Steve Jobs was crucified on Mt. Cupertino, please...

Nasty! Where did that come from? 1oyvey.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

A riposte par excellence. I see DED and you as the Two Musketeers; there must be a third here somewhere.

You?

Possibly Flaneur though. The name fits the localizion of the Three Musketeers... and I like his eloquent comments... 1smoking.gif
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post #226 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by brlawyer View Post

I must say it's always amusing to see comments like the above, particularly when I am one of the most rabid anti-Samsung and pro-Apple persons around here. My point is simply to note that:

- Apple is disappointed with the 5C sales;
- the 5C was a problem in search of a solution;
- the company spent considerable money just to set up a different manufacturing line for a less-than-successful model;
- no one cares about the 5C in most markets for the basic reason that its pricing is so close to that of the 5S;
- realizing its mistake, Apple NOW reduces the price of the 5C to see who wants to buy it;
- overall sales volumes have NOTHING to do with success as far as Apple is concerned - after all, the expectations were way higher than what numbers now show;
- for those of you with a minimum of knowledge on Apple's history, go check the PowerBook blunder of the 90s, when Apple TOTALLY misread demand (i.e., undershooting its expectations) and then struggled to satisfy an already angry market. Cook has failed and now he is trying to fix the problem.

Case closed - by the way, no need to resort to ad personam nonsense. I am not a criminal lawyer anyway (and would never be).

I would never employ a lawyer who so explicitly based his opinions on lies.
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post #227 of 289

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post
 
Thank you for being truthful about everyone's ignorance as to iPhone 5c sales. You are the first person to do so that nonetheless has anecdotal negative data on the iPhone 5c.

Well, I haven't been to the States very often in the last six months, and when I do go I am always at corporate where almost everyone has an iPhone. As far as I know, no one has a 5c. Lots of 4S, 5 and a few 5s. While traveling, dining or in business meetings, I honestly have never seen a 5c. Perhaps in other settings 5c is more prevalent. 

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post #228 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by NormM View Post
 

 

The 5c is just last year's top model sold as the mid-tier option, just what they've done every year, but reskinned this time.  When the 6 is introduced, the 5c will become the low end option, replacing the 4s at a similar price.  It takes two years: top to mid to low.

 

I really expect the 5c to become the low-end in Sept 2014 but the mid-tier will be a plastic version of 5s without TouchID.   Gone are the days when you can wait a year to get the high-end model $100 cheaper when a new flag-ship is released.    The mid-tier will still have the 64bit chip though.    If you want a 5s now is the time to get it.

post #229 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by K2kW View Post

I really expect the 5c to become the low-end in Sept 2014 but the mid-tier will be a plastic version of 5s without TouchID.   Gone are the days when you can wait a year to get the high-end model $100 cheaper when a new flag-ship is released.    The mid-tier will still have the 64bit chip though.    If you want a 5s now is the time to get it.

I don't think anybody knows. The Touch ID might be the standard going forward particularly if they can monetise it.
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post #230 of 289
How well would it have done against Android phones if it had sold for $399?
post #231 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by K2kW View Post

I really expect the 5c to become the low-end in Sept 2014 but the mid-tier will be a plastic version of 5s without TouchID.

Why aren't you expecting Touch ID to be included?

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post #232 of 289
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Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

It's a great phone but I see far more of the 4Ss around. The problem is, or rather was, the price. Had it replaced the 4S then it would have been a huge hit.

The new price in the UK, which is not really understood here ( it's a 61% drop in the sticker price) will make a big difference to the 5C sales.

Off contract prices are a different matter.

That is to be expected, the 4s has been available for two entire years beyond the 5c, plus there's the identical looking 4 available for another year beyond that. Compared to a few months of 5c availability?
post #233 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtschultz93 View Post


Take your blinders of bro and do the research..it's happened each of the last two years. Google it!

 

GS3 took 55 days to hit 10 million, so it's not even close to approaching Apple sales for a launch quarter. So let's throw the GS3 to the side since it's not even relevant. Neither are the GS2 or original S.

 

GS4 shipped 10 million into the CHANNEL in 26 days. They shipped another 10 million in the next 41 days. Pretty big drop considering it took 50% longer to get the second 10 million.

 

Samsung never announced when they hit 30 million, however they did announce 40 million on Oct 24th. So they moved the first 20 million in a little over 2 months, and then took another 4 months to ship the next 20 million. That's a huge drop in sales. Considering Samsung only announced channel sales and not real sales it's tough to compare. Based on Samsung's numbers (and the rapid drop), there's NO WAY Samsung could have shipped 30 million GS4 phones in 3 months. More likely they probably shipped 25 million phones. Impressive, but still nothing like what Apple does.

 

Apple's closest quarter to coincide with the GS4 launch was Q3 2013, which ran from April to June. So just over 2 months of the GS4 launch quarter overlapped with Apples Q3. Apple SOLD 31.2 million iPhones in this quarter, while competing with a newly launched (and much hyped) GS4 and also just months before the next iPhone is going to be announced.

 

Sorry, bro, to have to refute your claims with actual numbers.

 

Now do you want to compare GS4 sales in the same quarter when the iPhone 5S/5C launched, and see how truly pathetic they were?

post #234 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Why aren't you expecting Touch ID to be included?

A combination of production issues leading to differentiating the high end of iPhones and iPads  (I think next year the iPad with get the touchId)

post #235 of 289
Could it be that the reason for the dire state of journalistic enterprise these days is because journalists tech & business do not understand the connection between output and profit? I.E they seem to confuse the two and deem quantity = success even if no profit is earned. In consequence when the real world fails to conform to this model they disparage such success because it does not conform to their world paradigm.
post #236 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

GS3 took 55 days to hit 10 million, so it's not even close to approaching Apple sales for a launch quarter. So let's throw the GS3 to the side since it's not even relevant. Neither are the GS2 or original S.

GS4 shipped 10 million into the CHANNEL in 26 days. They shipped another 10 million in the next 41 days. Pretty big drop considering it took 50% longer to get the second 10 million.

Samsung never announced when they hit 30 million, however they did announce 40 million on Oct 24th. So they moved the first 20 million in a little over 2 months, and then took another 4 months to ship the next 20 million. That's a huge drop in sales. Considering Samsung only announced channel sales and not real sales it's tough to compare. Based on Samsung's numbers (and the rapid drop), there's NO WAY Samsung could have shipped 30 million GS4 phones in 3 months. More likely they probably shipped 25 million phones. Impressive, but still nothing like what Apple does.

Apple's closest quarter to coincide with the GS4 launch was Q3 2013, which ran from April to June. So just over 2 months of the GS4 launch quarter overlapped with Apples Q3. Apple SOLD 31.2 million iPhones in this quarter, while competing with a newly launched (and much hyped) GS4 and also just months before the next iPhone is going to be announced.

Sorry, bro, to have to refute your claims with actual numbers.

Now do you want to compare GS4 sales in the same quarter when the iPhone 5S/5C launched, and see how truly pathetic they were?

So are you counting total iPhone sales in each period or current model vs current Galaxy? Sounds like your counting total iPhone sales per quarter. Not apples to Apple comparison.

I was speaking of specific model to model comparison in what typically is first quarter for the new Galaxy to 3rd (of the cycle) for the current iPhone. And to clarify, I'm talking global numbers for each.
post #237 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtschultz93 View Post

So are you counting total iPhone sales in each period or current model vs current Galaxy? Sounds like your counting total iPhone sales per quarter. Not apples to Apple comparison.

I was speaking of specific model to model comparison in what typically is first quarter for the new Galaxy to 3rd (of the cycle) for the current iPhone. And to clarify, I'm talking global numbers for each.

Good point but both the 5S and 5C are high end phones by the standards of the rest if the industry.
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post #238 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtschultz93 View Post

For the record, this article is based entirely on "analyst's numbers", which this forum generally discredits. Daily. No one outside of Apple has sales numbers for the 5c.. iDiot

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtschultz93 View Post

So are you counting total iPhone sales in each period or current model vs current Galaxy? Sounds like your counting total iPhone sales per quarter. Not apples to Apple comparison.

I was speaking of specific model to model comparison in what typically is first quarter for the new Galaxy to 3rd (of the cycle) for the current iPhone. And to clarify, I'm talking global numbers for each.

Yes I counted total iPhones since Apple doesn't break down numbers. But Samsung only provides channel shipments so nobody knows their REAL sales either. Pretty sure their real sales are lower than channel shipments, we just don't know how much lower.

However, you stated Samsung matched Apple the last two years, which is 100% false. The GS3 (last model) isn't even close to Apple sales, and the GS4 is the only Samsung phone that "might" have matched iPhone sales. And for a flagship with billions in promotions to possibly catch an older iPhone is not that impressive.

And as I mentioned (and you chose to ignore) shall we compare an Apple launch quarter to a Samsung flagship that's halfway through its life?

Samsung sold 200 million Galaxy S variants since the launch of the first S. Over the exact same timeframe Apple sold 430 million iPhones. It's not even close.
post #239 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtschultz93 View Post

For the record, this article is based entirely on "analyst's numbers", which this forum generally discredits. Daily. No one outside of Apple has sales numbers for the 5c.. iDiot

 

 


Yes I counted total iPhones since Apple doesn't break down numbers. But Samsung only provides channel shipments so nobody knows their REAL sales either. Pretty sure their real sales are lower than channel shipments, we just don't know how much lower.

However, you stated Samsung matched Apple the last two years, which is 100% false. The GS3 (last model) isn't even close to Apple sales, and the GS4 is the only Samsung phone that "might" have matched iPhone sales. And for a flagship with billions in promotions to possibly catch an older iPhone is not that impressive.

And as I mentioned (and you chose to ignore) shall we compare an Apple launch quarter to a Samsung flagship that's halfway through its life?

Samsung sold 200 million Galaxy S variants since the launch of the first S. Over the exact same timeframe Apple sold 430 million iPhones. It's not even close.

Eric, I'm not Apple hating or Samsung loving. I understand that the iPhone is the overall best selling smartphone. My point is simply that it's not particularly convincing to me that an iPhone(5c) that launched last quarter,a repackaged old model even, outselling the 4th quarter (since release) of another phone does not equal success. Besides the fact that on the spreadsheet that DED attached only showed the 5c outperforming the S4 for one month.

Like I said in an earlier post, whether or not the 5c was a success will be determined this fall when either the line continues or not. Personally, I'd rather Apple continue making the 5s without putting a plastic back on it.
post #240 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtschultz93 View Post

Like I said in an earlier post, whether or not the 5c was a success will be determined this fall when either the line continues or not. Personally, I'd rather Apple continue making the 5s without putting a plastic back on it.

So the iPhone 5 was a failure? And you'll call the iPhone 5S a failure if get repackaged and branded as the 6C?

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