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Apple's iPhone 5c 'failure flop' outsold Blackberry, Windows Phone and every Android flagship in Q4 - Page 7

post #241 of 288
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post
the iPhone 5S a failure if get repackaged and branded as the 6C?

 

You mean 5SC. 6C makes no sense. It doesn’t have an A8.

 

EDIT: I’m tellin’ ya; I am now the undisputed master of this naming convention. :p


Edited by Tallest Skil - 3/23/14 at 4:21pm

Originally posted by Relic

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Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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post #242 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emes View Post
 


As well as people in Italy and 23 other countries

well then, it's just them

 

​north 'til you smell - it east 'til you step in it...

android sucks, but not as much as the people who come here to defend it.

New for MS dorks - Microsoft sucks just as much as the losers that come to AI to defend it

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android sucks, but not as much as the people who come here to defend it.

New for MS dorks - Microsoft sucks just as much as the losers that come to AI to defend it

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post #243 of 288
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtschultz93 View Post

Sales for the launch quarter of the new Galaxy will certainly outpace the same quarter sales of the 5s. So...Lies. No Galaxy has EVER outsold an iPhone in their launch quarter. 

I doesn't matter.  Apple doesn't care about marketshare.  Apple cares about profitshare, and there is no doubt that Apple is winning.

post #244 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrangerFX View Post

How well would it have done against Android phones if it had sold for $399?

How well would it have done if free?!
post #245 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frood View Post

No.  Their epectations sets their price.  If you feel their expectations are unreasonably high, you are saying Apple is valued unreasonably high.  At its peak it was valued at near the GDP of Switzerland.

Take the passions of phone companies out of it.  You and I both own hot dog stands and sell the same product.  People love my insanely delicious hot dogs, and I sell a ton of them, but I keep everything I do secret.  You sell a pretty mean hot dog too.

Analysts are asked to value our respective hot dog companies.  They predict I'm going to sell 1,000,000 and value me at $1,000,000 (just to keep it simple).  They predict you are going to sell 100,000 and value you at $100,000.   Neither of us has actually sold a hot dog in this quarter yet, but people would be willing to pay much more for my company because I'm expected to sell a lot more than you.

The quarter actually happens and we post our numbers.  You sold 200,000 hot dogs.  I sold 500,000 (a record amount for me!).  Guess what?  People like my product more than yours, I sold way more than twice as many hot dogs as you did, and I am doing better business than you are.

So that means my stock is going to soar, right?  Buzzzzzz.... Wrong.  My stock is going to plummet, and yours is going to soar.   But but but.... record sales!!!!!  Doesn't matter.  Sold WAY more than the competition so obviously my customers love me and will be back!  Doesn't matter.  I was valued at a company that was supposed to sell 1,000,000 hot dogs and I "only" sold 500,000.  I'm not doomed.  I'm not a failure.  People still like my product better than yours because they buy more.  I'm just not worth the $1,000,000 that I would be if I had sold 1,000,000 hot dogs.  You on the other hand, sold way fewer than I did, and your stock is soaring.  It should be.  You were valued at $100,000 based on expectations and you far exceeded them.  I'm still worth a lot more than you are 1tongue.gif  My shareholder are now much poorer though 1frown.gif

My shareholders and fans can cry a river that my hot dogs are better than anyone else's and that I sell more than anyone else.  They are absolutely right that the analysts had it all wrong.  But when they bought my shares thinking I was worth 1,000,000- the analysts had set that unreasonable expectation and they bought in to it.  I was unable to deliver- I was really only worth $500,000.  They can then cry that 1,000,000 was a totally unreasonable number and blame analysts for setting expectations so high- and they would be absolutely right.  I never should have been valued at $1,000,000 in the first place because that was based on their unrealistic expectations.

    Of course you'll also get the ones that say.  He sold record numbers and way more than anyone else, but his stock tanked, and that other guy sold *way* less and his stock is soaring!!! WTF!!!!  Clear sign of market manipulation!!!!!

Would you at least agree that if Apple consistently sells more phones at higher profit margins, they should be worth more than if they sell fewer phones at lower margins?

There are some analysts who do set lower expectations for Apple.  But since they expect Apple to sell less of their products, they also lower their valuation and price targets for Apple.  It's usually the fans that decry analysts for setting unreasonably high targets for Apple that are the same ones calling the analysts that give Apple a lower price target based on more reasonable expectations a bunch of idiots.

The best part is we're now 'done' right?  I sold 500,000... you sold 200,000 so everyone has their answer and we can be 'correctly valued' easily now right?  Its the start of a new quarter and we *know* how many we just sold and what our numbers are on the spot of the moment.  What we don't know is how many we are going to sell this next quarter.   Analysts have to come up with their best guess, again (that guess being more accurately defined as the 'net present value of all future *expected* earnings), and if people value their insights and invest accordingly, the price will again move to levels based on those analysts expectations.   Rinse.  Lather. Repeat.  If you don't believe the analysts high valuation of any company because you think there is no way that company can meet their expected targets... you are saying that the company should have a lower valuation because you believe they are going to sell less product.

A heap of words to say that Apple is very undervalued. I agree.
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post #246 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by K2kW View Post

A combination of production issues leading to differentiating the high end of iPhones and iPads  (I think next year the iPad with get the touchId)

I think if they have the components and the cost isn't too high they will want to put them in every new device they can. I think they would have wanted it in last year's Retina iPad Mini and iPad Air but they couldn't do it.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #247 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willy05 View Post

Nice to see a balanced article. We traded in a 4S and got a 5s for about $150 net last year. This year we'll trade in a 5 to finally get a large screen 6. The 4s gets refurbished and resold. Advised a non-techie friend to replace a 4 with a 5c for less than the cost of replacing the battery. Anyone I know who switched to android from Apple comes back. My big gripes were the screen size and memory scam. If Apple wants to look forward they'll include a memory slot in the 6. Their strategy now gives them multiple price points and a product life of 5 to 7 years. Not bad. I was skeptical of the watch thing, but if "Healthgrades" is visionary, I'm in. I'm holding my Apple shares. Might buy a few more on dips.

I'm interested to see that you appear to have lost your regal status whilst writing your post. May I ask which country you were King of?
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post #248 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


So the iPhone 5 was a failure? And you'll call the iPhone 5S a failure if get repackaged and branded as the 6C?

Most in the US are not looking to by last years phone from Apple. My 18 year old daughter wouldn't be caught dead with the "cheaper" iPhone, even worse one with plastic on the back...:). If I remember correctly the 5c was a less expensive option for countries that aren't big on contracts. In the US I would say most simply take a 2 year contract which makes the extra 100.00 for the 5s not really even something to think about. 

 

With the recycle program most can get their phone for next to nothing. If we get a 6c this fall then we know Apple considered the 5c a success, if not we know they didn't. 

post #249 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacChelsea View Post

Last Christmas I was in London for a trip and I saw more people using iPhone 5c than any other iPhone model.

Last Christmas, I gave you my heart...
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post #250 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post

Nasty! Where did that come from? 1oyvey.gif
You?

Possibly Flaneur though. The name fits the localizion of the Three Musketeers... and I like his eloquent comments... 1smoking.gif

Funny you should say that. There are several here that could qualify, but Flaneur did spring to mind early on; he's written some biting comments recently. Good man.
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post #251 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Without even citing sales figures anymore, Reed and Ciaccia have taken to calling iPhone 5c a "flop," as if saying something outrageous over and over automatically makes it factual. 
 

 

Sentences like this let me know I'm reading a DED piece.

post #252 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by SudoNym View Post

I doesn't matter.  Apple doesn't care about marketshare.  Apple cares about profitshare, and there is no doubt that Apple is winning.
Ridiculous! More market share equals more profit, of course they care.
post #253 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post

Ridiculous! More market share equals more profit, of course they care.

1) That poster is one of you but he's being sarcastic which is funny because you don't even realize it.

2) So if Apple dropped their prices in half and were able to get double the revenuer you think they would then get twice as much profit? Even with Apple's command of a solid profit margin that would still put them in the red for every sale.

3) Apple does not care about marketshare at the expense of losing profits.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #254 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacChelsea View Post

Last Christmas I was in London for a trip and I saw more people using iPhone 5c than any other iPhone model.
Like 1 person using 5c and zero using other models?
Anecdotal is funny isn't it.
post #255 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by brlawyer View Post

Notwithstanding AI's great efforts above, the fact is: the 5C is a FLOP, aka the IIvx/IIvi of the iPhone world.

Even Apple itself admitted that sales were not "in line" (euphemism for "sorry, we haven't sold that many") - besides, they were absolutely sure that it would sell well in emerging markets and lower strata of industrialized markets; but they did not realize that the 5S was just marginally more expensive, particularly when such phones are sold in instalments or with more expensive plans.

In other words, Cook completely misinterpreted demand trends just like what Apple did with the PowerBook when it didn't produce enough units of the specific notebook model really wanted by the public.

I have never seen anyone with a 5C - and I can assure you that the 5C will go down in history as one of Apple's major market failures ever; it will be quietly discontinued in the coming months (or, more appropriately, "superseded" by revamped non-5C models). 

I'm shocked, shocked I tell you, to find a lawyer with such poor reading comprehension skills.
post #256 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post


A heap of words to say that Apple is very undervalued. I agree.

 

Yep.  If they can *beat* what many call the 'unrealistic expectations' that their current price is based on, they are without a doubt undervalued.

post #257 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


I think if they have the components and the cost isn't too high they will want to put them in every new device they can. I think they would have wanted it in last year's Retina iPad Mini and iPad Air but they couldn't do it.

Yes I think the touthID will be installed on the Retina iPad Mini2, iPad Air2, iPhone 6, and iPhone 6XL.    By the following year 2015 they will probably have expanded production to add touchId to the mid-tier.    In sept 2014 both the low-end 5c and new mid-tier 5sc will be based on the plastic body so that they can use the metal for the high-end products.

post #258 of 288
Quote: Appleinsider

Even Samsung's flagship Galaxy S4 reportedly sold just 9 million units in the winter quarter.



 

Great Article, sorry DED but shipped and sold are not the same thing :smokey:

 

 

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post #259 of 288

So after 260 comments we finally learned that iPhone 5c indeed sold more than others making it the second world's best selling after iPhone 5s;) 

 

 

Reply

 

 

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post #260 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


"Readers choice" gives it away. 5C owners rarely go on tech blogs.

 

Strange that Engadget's score of 87 puts it on par with the the Galaxy S4.

 

Endgadget is dominated by "paid for comment" fandroid sheep.

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post #261 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtschultz93 View Post

 it's not particularly convincing to me that an iPhone(5c) that launched last quarter,a repackaged old model even, 

 

Apart from being compatible with that weird Chinese 4G network that is.

Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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post #262 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Apart from being compatible with that weird Chinese 4G network that is.
Ah, that repackaged argument !£@!!? As I understand it Apple thought they needed another phone in their line up. They needed hardware that would compete with their competition....let's say the S4. They needed the phone to appeal to a less conservative taste, something bang on trend, maybe colourful. Oh, and it needed to be a lot cheaper to manufacture so they could discount it aggressively in the future if they needed to...The 5c perfect!!! Now no one knows how well it's doing exactly because only Apple knows that, and they never release breakdown figures. From the phone companies, the results look good, consistently in the number Two or Three best selling slot, perfect!!! Not so perfect for Apple is that the sales mix isn't what they were hopping for, their friggin top end phone, so difficult to make, is selling like crazy......although the stinking profits are really nice.
So what is the problem here? Am I missing something?
post #263 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by brlawyer View Post
 

 

I must say it's always amusing to see comments like the above, particularly when I am one of the most rabid anti-Samsung and pro-Apple persons around here. My point is simply to note that:

 

- Apple is disappointed with the 5C sales;

- the 5C was a problem in search of a solution;

- the company spent considerable money just to set up a different manufacturing line for a less-than-successful model;

- no one cares about the 5C in most markets for the basic reason that its pricing is so close to that of the 5S;

- realizing its mistake, Apple NOW reduces the price of the 5C to see who wants to buy it;

- overall sales volumes have NOTHING to do with success as far as Apple is concerned - after all, the expectations were way higher than what numbers now show;

- for those of you with a minimum of knowledge on Apple's history, go check the PowerBook blunder of the 90s, when Apple TOTALLY misread demand (i.e., undershooting its expectations) and then struggled to satisfy an already angry market. Cook has failed and now he is trying to fix the problem.

 

Case closed - by the way, no need to resort to ad personam nonsense. I am not a criminal lawyer anyway (and would never be).

 

When a failure outsells the competition, I sure hope they keep failing like this.  I guess a lawyer fails by being successful in more cases than all the other lawyers.

post #264 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by quamb View Post

You start to feel like a crazy fanboy trying to defend this stuff.... this non stop hate and hyperbole thrown Apple's way. It's unrelenting. What is going on? Who is behind all this? A simple (albiet very successful) company that makes phones and computers receives so much riducule it's as if they are doing something terribly wrong in the eyes of these editors and hoard of geeks on the forums.

I guess in some respects, they were the same in the 90's with hating on the Macintosh. Still doesn't explain why though.

Very simple.  Payola from Samsung.  Didn't they spend $12 or $20 billion in marketing?

post #265 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post


I'm shocked, shocked I tell you, to find a lawyer with such poor reading comprehension skills.

 

To summarize all reactions above (against my post):

 

- Lawyers are bad/I hate lawyers/you're such a bad lawyer blablabla;

 

- the iPhone 5C sold more than some other devices; therefore it is a great success and Apple has NOT meant what it said.

 

Or in other words:

 

- I don't have facts, so I resort to ad personam diatribes;

 

- I rely on ONE single piece of information: sales volumes - nothing else matters to me.

 

So yeah: the iPhone 5C is still a flop.

 

p.s.1: What, me worry? ;)

 

p.s.2: Am I trolling? ;)


Edited by brlawyer - 3/24/14 at 11:39am
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post #266 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by brlawyer View Post

To summarize all reactions above (against my post):

- Lawyers are bad/I hate lawyers/you're such a bad lawyer blablabla;

- the iPhone 5C sold more than some other devices; therefore it is a great success and Apple has NOT meant what it said.

Or in other words:

- I don't have facts, so I resort to ad personam diatribes;

- I rely on ONE single piece of information: sales volumes - nothing else matters to me.

So yeah: the iPhone 5C is still a flop.

The iPhone 5C didn't sell more than some other devices. It sold more than every single device except one. To call it a flop is horseshit regardless of Apples internal expectations.
post #267 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by brlawyer View Post


- I don't have facts...

You got this right.
post #268 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by brlawyer View Post

So yeah: the iPhone 5C is still a flop.
You keep telling yourself that so you can sleep at night.
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post #269 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by iaeen View Post


The iPhone 5C didn't sell more than some other devices. It sold more than every single device except one. To call it a flop is horseshit regardless of Apples internal expectations.

^this^.

 

The analyst's theme before the 5c release was the 5c would soar and "save" Apple. Then the 5s outsold the 5c: thus the 5c, not being the savior of Apple, was a "flop".

 

And that was and remains, silly.

post #270 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfc1138 View Post
 

^this^.

 

The analyst's theme before the 5c release was the 5c would soar and "save" Apple. Then the 5s outsold the 5c: thus the 5c, not being the savior of Apple, was a "flop".

 

And that was and remains, silly.

As I've said over and over again. Apple makes more money selling the 5S than the 5C. They were probably a bit "worried" that the 5c was too good of an offering at $99 that it may hurt 5s sales and likewise hurt revenue. They were pleasantly surprised to find that it didn't happen, and more people opted for the 5s than they expected. Good for Apple. 

post #271 of 288

The same thing I said when the Macintosh failed (as everyone had predicted).

 

The same thing I said when the iPod failed (as everyone had predicted).

 

The same thing I said when the original iPhone failed (as everyone had predicted).

 

The same thing I said when the iPad failed (as had everyone predicted).

 

Which is… oops… none of that ever happened.  So what would I say if (all evidence to the contrary) Apple decided to get rid of the 5C?

 

As the article above points out, the 5C is a huge success by any rational measure.  But if it isn't as big of a success as Apple would like and they change the name, or change the design, I couldn't care less.  Apple is constantly revising their product line, so maybe this was a temporary model anyway.  Maybe they were experimenting with manufacturing plastic cases and learned a lot.  Odds are if they do drop it, they had planned to anyway.  Maybe the 5C will become an iPhone nano that is constantly changing over.

 

Steve Jobs often talked about always pushing the edge and being willing to make mistakes.  There's no evidence so far that the 5C is a mistake or an experiment.  Logically, Apple has other models coming soon.  There is no reason for Apple to make a big announcement they are dropping the 5C, even if they weren't happy with sales.  They could just retire it normally as they move to new and improved models.

 

But even if they aren't happy with sales, my guess they are going to adjust the price, modify the colors, add features and keep it out there just to piss of the critics who are begging for it to "fail."  I suspect, like with the ahead of it's time make MacAir, they would use their considerable resources to make it a big success.

post #272 of 288

I never said it was failing or not failing.  It clearly wasn't a failure from a technical standpoint, it was groundbreaking.  Obviously, Apple lowered the price to boost sales.  If they hadn't, what would have happened?  It's not clear since it happened so fast.  (It could be argued that Apple lowered the price because they realized it had the potential to be a mass market item, rather than a super high end product.)

 

My point was, Apple learned from that not to drop prices too quickly.  I suspect that factors into how they will handle the 5C by slowly lowering the price and adding features, rather than panicking and dropping the price or dropping the model.  Because, like with the original iPhone, Apple haters will quickly shout "See!  It was failing so they had to drop the price!"

post #273 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtschultz93 View Post

For the record, this article is based entirely on "analyst's numbers", which this forum generally discredits. Daily. No one outside of Apple has sales numbers for the 5c.. iDiot

 

Samsung sold 200 million Galaxy S variants since the launch of the first S. Over the exact same timeframe Apple sold 430 million iPhones. It's not even close.

 

Straight from the horses mouth:-

 

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post #274 of 288
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Straight from the horses mouth:-

 

It’s cute that they think we’ll believe them when they say that.

Originally posted by Relic

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Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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post #275 of 288

"

what a fucking idiot you are

Conversation between RogueDogRandy and me
38x38px-ZC-11b2e2df_dog.gif
RogueDogRandy
Today at 12:29 am

dumb mother fucker

dumb mother fucker

dumb mother fucker

dumb mother fucker

dumb mother fucker

go away idiot, you have been owned on this forum"

 

Now that was classy.

 

 

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post #276 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by brlawyer View Post

"

what a fucking idiot you are



Conversation between RogueDogRandy and me


38x38px-ZC-11b2e2df_dog.gif

RogueDogRandy

Today at 12:29 am


dumb mother fucker
dumb mother fucker
dumb mother fucker
dumb mother fucker
dumb mother fucker
go away idiot, you have been owned on this forum"

Now that was classy.




You too? ROFTL. Mine was relatively tame this time.

"RogueDogRandy
-don't talk your shit at me punk. I will slap your fucking ears so hard your head will ring for a week

-i got your tough guy hanging, twerp

-whatever, twerp. I am older and wiser than you.
melior diabolus quem scies
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melior diabolus quem scies
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post #277 of 288
I understand why a lawyer would defend their client but are they allowed to lie?

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #278 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I understand why a lawyer would defend their client but are they allowed to lie?

Lawyers don't give testimony so they technically aren't under oath. Also the opposing counsel can object so the judge can decide.
post #279 of 288
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post
Lawyers don't give testimony so they technically aren't under oath.

 

Your honor… the defendant rapes children. Also, I’d like to call my next witness.

Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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post #280 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by brlawyer View Post
 

"

what a fucking idiot you are

Conversation between RogueDogRandy and me
38x38px-ZC-11b2e2df_dog.gif
RogueDogRandy
Today at 12:29 am

dumb mother fucker

dumb mother fucker

dumb mother fucker

dumb mother fucker

dumb mother fucker

go away idiot, you have been owned on this forum"

 

Now that was classy.

 

 

 

You too? ROFTL. Mine was relatively tame this time.

"RogueDogRandy
-don't talk your shit at me punk. I will slap your fucking ears so hard your head will ring for a week

-i got your tough guy hanging, twerp

-whatever, twerp. I am older and wiser than you.

 

Welcome to AI.  I see the welcoming committee has welcomed you as well.  It just wouldn't be AI if you didn't recieve unsolicited PMs like this from the membership.

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