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Do YOU Steal Music??

post #1 of 62
Thread Starter 
"Don't Steal Music." So reads Apple's disclaimer for iTunes and iPod. Naturally, we all worship Steve as our God, but do we do as he says?

I for one do steal music.

I have a difficult time subscribing to the music industry's definition of theft. If anyone really wants to get into that debate, we could arrange it.

- Pook :cool:
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post #2 of 62
I don't steal music, my computer does.

I am stealing music right now while listening to stolen music and burning a CD of stolen music. I'm also sharing all my stolen music with millions of other music thieves.

Warez, baby, all you can eat.

[ 12-08-2001: Message edited by: groverat ]</p>
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post #3 of 62
Wow, is that what that fuzzy little white line says at the bottom of the screen? I'm going blind trying to read it! :eek:

I don't steal music. I'm just borrowing it. I have every intention of giving back when I'm done.
post #4 of 62
I dont steal music. I copy MP3s, but I dont steal music. There is a difference, despite what the RIAA would like you to beleive.
Hell, it wasnt even illeagle until the DMCA was passed (talk about a sign that North America is going to Hell).
Those who dance the dance must look very foolish to those who can't hear the music
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Those who dance the dance must look very foolish to those who can't hear the music
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post #5 of 62
Unfortunately at 13-18 bucks a pop for a CD these days I can't afford to buy many CDs. There are TONS that I would love to own. I just can't justify spending 200 bucks and getting a dozen or so CDs. it's insane.

Why can't they charge 5-8 bucks for a CD? Sales would sky rocket. I guess there are more reasons for the high prices but I would buy so many CDs at those prices.

With current prices I its too hard to buy an album you are unsure that you'll like.
post #6 of 62
Damn straight I don't steal music.

I like to say that I "creatively obtain" it... just like I obtained all this other software on my Mac. :cool:
post #7 of 62
I own a small record label, so I get more than enough music sent to me for free and don't really need to "steal" any. But I have Napstered a number of tracks before, more for the novelty of it and the fun of exploration, than to actually try in earnest to build up a collection of MP3s. The novelty wore off and the only time I'd search for an MP3 lately would just be to check out what something sounds like. I was talking to a friend about Pantera for some reason, and since I'm not a fan of that kind of music, I didn't really want to buy a Pantera CD just to hear it once. So I found some Pantera on Kazaa, listened to the tracks once, and deleted them.

I'm not judgemental about people who DO decide to download all their music without paying for anything, but I wonder why there seems to be this sense that MP3 downloading is somehow some kind of really impressive accomplishment. Is it really some kind of cool, elite hacker-like escapade? Or is it just something any 8-year-old can do, whether they know about computers & the internet or not?

Besides, if you hear something really great and really love it, don't you want to buy the CD anyway?

Of course, it also goes without saying (just stating facts here, not preaching) that if EVERYONE decided to "steal" their music, 90% of the artists we love would decide to do something different with their time.... work at a bank, instead of releasing CDs that nobody buys. There would still be grass roots "indie" artists who don't mind performing for free, and who record tracks in their basement demo studio and convert them to MP3 for free distribution (some artists already operate this way), but the great majority of the artists who had to work a full-time day job to pay for food and rent, would end up giving up music eventually. Bands break up all the time because they can't make a living at their music, and a continuation of this trend will just mean that MORE bands break up, SOONER, or never even get going (to the point where you'd hear of them) in the first place.

Just a couple of points about the other perspective. Please don't read the above as sour grapes whining from somebody who's part of the "music establishment." My label is small, and not particularly hurt by the whole Napster & MP3 phenomenon. Most of the musicians I know personally, don't make their living from their music anyway and enjoy the wider exposure they get from MP3 trading. They view it sort of like radio airplay.
post #8 of 62
Yes, sizzle chest, I see your points and do agree with them. I, however, am one of the poor college students who wouldn't be spending money on CD's anyway; so, this is how I get my music. I suppose I could just turn on the radio, but this is far more convenient and customizable.

In fact, didn't RIAA's records show that sales were not affected by the use of Napster in '00? I recall some clams that sales actually increased! Imagine that...

A totally agree that if I like an artist (and I have the money) that I would buy the album. I'm just not in that kind of financial position right now. The same goes for software and that's why I (legally) try to get on so many beta test lists.

[ 12-08-2001: Message edited by: starfleetX ]</p>
post #9 of 62
I dont steal music or software, but if someone would like to tell me where and how I can get some free stuff I'll be more than happy to give it a go.

I mean I tried to find some VST plug-ins several times, but all I found were sites that sent me round in neverending circles. WTF is wrong with them, can I sue them for false advertising?
post #10 of 62
I don't steal, I share!

What do you mean? Illegal??! Oh well, take me away.

J :cool:
post #11 of 62
Yes, I suppose I steal music. Most of the time if I download it I buy it sometime after though so I guess it's not always stealing. But seriously, the record companies deserve it because of the prices they charge.
post #12 of 62
OK Sizzle Chest, I've got something to say about this. Background--I too have worked in the "industry", although not in the same capacity as you: I was a drummer, for a poorly known, but reasonably competent little band. Out of the music scene for 8 years now. I stole my first mp3 a few weeks ago, when I ordered my iPod, and only after I had ripped all my CDs. I looked at the 400 or so records I have in boxes and thought, well, I paid for them, why shouldn't I be able to play them on my computer and my iPod?

My feeling is that the music industry in its current incarnation destroys more music than it creates. Huge numbers of musicians "don't make it", but still create great music. Those musicians get frustrated and leave the industry. The internet and the digital revolution will change all this. Just as we are beginning to see great indie movies made, small musicians should be able to present themselves with the right forum online. Right now, most of us will never hear this great stuff, because the distribution channels are controlled by trolls and ogres with big clubs. This digital revolution levels the playing field. Most of the well known musicians that are marketed by the labels are not better than everyone else, they are just produced and marketed more effectively. They get airplay time purchased on big radio. Well, radio is no longer going to be the primary mode of distribution of this stuff. It still is, but it won't be.

My brief experience with mp3s has been a bit disappointing, because it can't yet show me the music I would love but don't know. When it can do that, the revolution started by the napster shot across the bow, will really get underway.

The current industry trolls and ogers are slowing the adoption of killer technology (even criminalising it!), because they are losing control. For that lack of vision, they deserve to lose control. I have no problem with that; it even smells of the free market in a cowboy way that I admire.

Let the little guys be heard! I've had it up to here wil having Madonna or the Jacksons--in their varied horrible incarnations--stuffed down my throat!
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post #13 of 62
I buy a shitload of cds, many of which I previewed via downloaded mp3s.

But what I mostly download is out-of-print, rare and hard to find stuff. The minute the record labels stop limiting what we can buy and put their entire back catalogs online (in a form I can burn to CD, copy to MD and download to my iPod as I please), I may consider buying exclusively.

But record labels are saying, "you can have this Mariah Carey album or that Michael Jackson one, but you can't have this Balloon one anymore because it wasn't popular enough."

Well, I don't want Maria or Maahchael, so I end up "stealing" the Balloon CD that they won't sell me.

Oh, and by the way, I might have bought the Natalie Imbruglia album some day, but after what BMG did, I swear to God if I ever feel compelled to own it, I'll copy it off of someone. Ditto for any other insulting "copy protected" cd crap.

If the record labels want me to never buy a CD again, they should go ahead make them all copy-protected.
post #14 of 62
Copy-protected cds wont work. They are trying to do that now with a few cds and people are already having problems listening to cds. Tracks dont work well, and people do have a right to make a copy of a cd they just bought.

As far as stealing music, it depends what your definition of stealing music is.
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post #15 of 62
I don't, surprisingly. I've tried various things like Limewire, macster and now macphex, but nothing seems to be worth the trouble. That and the fact that people have a hard time spelling right and getting the ID tags right. It makes it more trouble than it's worth. I have started to download book 4 of Harry Potter for my iPod. Still trying to get 9 chapters of it. After all this trouble, I'm not sure that it's worth it :/
post #16 of 62
[quote]Originally posted by TigerWoods99:
<strong>... and people do have a right to make a copy of a cd they just bought. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Yes, this is true in North America. But what a lot of people don't know in the UK is that it is illegal to even make a copy of a CD that you own in Britain. I remember reading this in a MacUser magazine last year.

I guess this makes all MP3s of commercially produced music illegal in the UK. Crrrrazy. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
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post #17 of 62
I don't do a whole lot of it, but I do usually buy a CD for someone when it's their birthday, or it's Christmas. They're used to getting "open but new" CDs from me by now.

I rip them to MP3 just in case they ever lose the CD. Honestly.
post #18 of 62
I guess I steal music, but I also bought at least twenty or thirty cd's this year and (shameless plug) give it away. Please check out <a href="http://www.thedopes.net" target="_blank">www.thedopes.net</a>

I do hope people start to value what musicians do a little more though. I mean people pay ten bucks to go to a movie, but try getting people to pay that to go see a local band.
post #19 of 62
I'll download mp3s of a specific song I'm looking for, that I know I don't want the whole CD. Like say if I want the song "we are family" for an iMovie. I know I don't want the CD.

Other times I'll download an MP3 just to see if I like the music or not. For example, a while back when Moby came on the scene and everyone was talking about him. I didn't really want to buy the CD cause I generally don't listen to techno by myself, but I wanted to see what Moby's grooves were all about. So I checked out an MP3 and decided to go buy a used CD.

Used CDs are the way to go as far as price is concerned. Unfortunately it doesn't support the artist either. So its not much different from d/ling mp3s in my opinion.

However, I like going to the music store and looking through the CD selection.

downloading one of Trick Fall's songs now...thanks man.
post #20 of 62
Until a couple of month ago we had the toughest "copy of digital recorded music" law in the world. Just like in GB we weren´t allowed to make a copy or compilation of our own cd´s. Had Apple spent so much as a penny of commercials here <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" /> what the boy do in the "iTunes - Theather" commercial would have been a criminal act.

But now the laws were changed. I can now make copies for myself of original CDs or music legally copied (Internet download still illegal). So now I can borrow my friends cds (as long as they weren´t illegally copied themself) and make a legal copy for myself and then borrow this cd to another friend aso. In trade for this they have placed a special tax on CD-r and CD-RW, removable memory chips that will go directly to artists.

So now I am borrowing all the CDs I like from my liberary , ripping them onto my HD and playing them from there. All legally and free. If I borrowed my iPod with all those songs to a friend he could copy them to his drive without any of us breaking the law.

So no I do no steal music but only because we don´t have laws against it. If we had I would be enemy of the state #1.

But then again I buy for at least $70 vinyl every month
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post #21 of 62
Thanks for taking the time to check it out Seb.
post #22 of 62
Damn straight I don't steal music.
I like to say that I "creatively obtain" it... just like I obtained all this other software on my Mac.

Its not theft, Ive tried to explain this so many times... It is copyright infringments (well, under the DMCA at least) and often considered fraud (isnt fraud a great term? You can use to to cover anything you feel is unfair), but its not theft under any deffinition of theft that wasnt made up by/for the RIAA or software industry.
Not that I condone software piracy or anything, no.

Besides, if you hear something really great and really love it, don't you want to buy the CD anyway?

Damn straight. Actually its more a value thing for me, if I fond a lot of songs by the person I like on one album I go buy the album. If they have CDs with 2 good songs that boatloads of crap (one of the problems that I have with Aphex Twin and most techno artists) then I dont buy it.
Examples: Moby, got a few MP3s, loved 'em, bought the CD. The Richard D James album, to this day I say its one of the best Ive gotten.

I looked at the 400 or so records I have in boxes and thought, well, I paid for them, why shouldn't I be able to play them on my computer and my iPod?

Yes, in the states and Canada its leagle too.
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post #23 of 62
I spend a good deal of my paychecks on CDs . I rip them to MP3 and use my iMac as my music box.
I used to use Napster to find tracks and recordings that never made it onto CD. Rockapella has an enormous number of recordings that aren't availbale in stores. I never used Napster for blank baldfaced stealing.
post #24 of 62
This is a tough one. I guess I do steal music so to speak. I can't stand the coporate crap that is pumped out on the radio and on MTV. When I was in college I lived in a great college town for college radio. That was how I got exposed to some of the best stuff I have heard. Since I moved away from there I don't have that source for music any more. I have relied on the internet for this now. Napster was okay, but it was only really good for getting single tracks of mainstream stuff. I've mainly resorted to private hotline servers for stuff that I just can't buy where I live. MOst of the stuff I have found insteresting is simply too hard to buy on a whim. It's either CDs that you would have to shell out $30 a pop or rare vinyl. Because I can't really afford to purchase $1000's a month on music doesn't mean I have the right to download it, but will I stop? Probably not. When I can purchase something from some artist or groupd I've found via this method I will. I also share it with my friends so that they know about these groups.

Yeah. that's it. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
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post #25 of 62
I don't steal music. I buy it. In fact MP3's have caused me to buy much more music than radio or MTV. Any large commercial music station seems to devote almost 33% of their time to commercials nowadays. Likewise MTV plays so little music, and the music it does play are from so few artists, that it is simply to little return for my time.

I have had friends send me an MP3 or maybe just heard a title or seen an interview with a musician I found compelling. I have downloaded a couple MP3's of them and then if I liked them. I have bought their CD.

The most recent examples of this for me are Everclear and various Spanish artists. (Thalia for example)

The music industry as it stands should be outlawed. I read an interview and the quote that summed it up best was from the father of Brandy. He said,"I understand how the music industry works because I understand how sharecropping works."

In the industry you as an artist have to pay for everything and the companies retain all the rights. This is why a cd will cost you more than a movie even though the movie cost so much more to make.

Nick

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post #26 of 62
I don't steal music.

Of course, I'm going more by the 1976 Copyright Act (U.S.) than any of the subsequent attempts to subvert and demolish copyright law. (In the 1976 law, copying something like a newspaper article or a song and mailing it to a few people was considered fair use).

I have ripped all my CDs onto my Cube - which is my stereo system - so that I can play CDs in the car, load them to friends, or play an album without trying to find it. I email MP3s to friends, and get MP3s from them, every so often, exactly the way we used to trade mix tapes. The radio tends to suck, and I haven't bothered with MTV for years now, so this is the primary way I'm introduced to new songs. If I like the artist, I buy the album - unless I find out that it won't play in my Cube, or has degraded sound, or can't be ripped, because of some hare-brained copy protection scheme.

My band also <a href="http://www.themayflies.com/music/" target="_blank">offers MP3s for download</a>, because we don't see what's so unreasonable about getting to hear something before you buy it, and because Internet distribution looks great to little independents like us who are just getting started. The server tells us how many people downloaded what when, and from where. Apparently there are people in Belgium who like us. This opens doors that we would never have under the traditional publication and distribution streams. Not to mention that we don't have to run on the studio treadmill and give the rights to our songs away.

I understand why the music industry's scared of file-sharing, but there are so many slime in the music industry - at all levels - that I don't care. Let them tremble.
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post #27 of 62
While I love the question , Do You Steal Music? lets ask the question, Do I have to pay for music I don't want to get songs I like? The anser to that is a resounding yes. Of the music I buy , 1 in 6 songs is possibly one I'll listen to. It is now technicly possible to sell me just the music I want. The music industry however is greedy. Do I steal music? Hardly. I pay unreasonable prices for it. And the only way I can feel good about that is , I pass it around to my friends. Are they stealing it? , The way I see it. if I buy 12 songs to get 2, and I give those two songs to six other ppl. I 've used 12 songs, and I've paid for 12 songs, how is that stealing?
post #28 of 62
It's odd. Broadcast music is free for us. MP3s are not. Recording a broadcast - who's gunna stop ya? Requesting a station to keep playing the aame song onver and over... hmm. I hate commercial lines.
post #29 of 62
I thought it would be appropriate to chime in as I am a Composer. Personally, artists make very little from the sale of CD's unless it is a commercial bonanza. The real money comes when a band goes on tour and makes money through ticket sales and whatnot. I think for a lot of artists, the more people who hear their music, the better. Especially the obscure artists. Eventually, though, the big record companies will go by the wayside as bands gain access to inexpensive recording equipment and can mix their own music for the public.

Personally I hate the recording industry. Especially when I hear that Brittney Spears couldn't sing on account she hurt her leg.

Does anyone else see what's wrong with that?
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post #30 of 62
I steal a ton of music. I've downloaded 5 (very good) albums in the last 2 days and have been very pleased with them. So much so that all 5 have gone onto my list of albums to buy.
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post #31 of 62
NO

A big fat NO.

I don't even LISTEN to music anymore. Well, just the 'greats' once in a while. Like John Denver!
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post #32 of 62
I record some music off of my satalite TV. To my understanding it's legal to record TV for personal playback right? Well I go to a music station, wait for a song I like & then record it. I have the AV Audio going straight into my mac via a AV to miniplug adapter. Seems legal to me (again, just recording TV for personal playback, just skipping the video part). I do buy some CD's & I don't get to much music off TV (I'm not really a big music person).
post #33 of 62
Basically, if the industries would provide a way for people to purchase individual songs for download without those inane "It will only work on the hard drive you downloaded it to" schemes, I would be much happier.

As people have said, sometimes there's only one song worth having from a CD. Other times, I've downloaded a few songs by a band and it prompted me to buy their CD (KMFDM) or reminded me that I liked their stuff way back when I didn't get a chance to buy it (Gravity Kills).

Then there's these weird songs that I have no idea where they came from ("Raccoon").

But also, some artists want their music spread around. You may recall the incident with Offspring where they wanted to make their album available on Napster, but their label only let them put out one low-quality copy of the first single from the album. And a couple other instances where bands actually made their label drop out of lawsuits against people who were distributing their music online.

What does this have to do with anything? Basically, 3/4 of my MP3s are ripped from my own CDs or are freely available from places like MP3.com or else are just impossible to find. The rest are songs that I either intend on buying the CD soon or are one-hit-wonders that I wouldn't care for other than one song. Does that make me a thief?

Maybe.
post #34 of 62
Hey Amorph, checked out Sycamore Tree last night. Pretty cool song, nice recording too.

Also I never thought to see if there was a way to check how many dl's you've had until you mentioned it. Thanks, I checked today and was pretty happy with the numbers.
post #35 of 62
[quote]Originally posted by sizzle chest:
<strong>I'm not judgemental about people who DO decide to download all their music without paying for anything, but I wonder why there seems to be this sense that MP3 downloading is somehow some kind of really impressive accomplishment. Is it really some kind of cool, elite hacker-like escapade? Or is it just something any 8-year-old can do, whether they know about computers & the internet or not?</strong><hr></blockquote>



if the owner of a 'small time' record company is so out of touch, what hope is there for the executives of the major labels?

[ 12-10-2001: Message edited by: janitor ]</p>
post #36 of 62
For a lot of people it is a status thing. The same reason they download an assload of warez. (What do any of us need with a copy of Maya?)

I know people who download mp3s to put on CDs and then file away. I have 10.5g of mp3s that I listen to almost continuously.
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post #37 of 62
Back when it was easier to get free mp3's I downlaoded some songs and put them on a playlist. After a while I bought some of the cds and deleted the rest. How is that different from the radio, except I get to listen to music i think I might be interested in. Incidently, since things have tightened up and I can't download songs from mp3.com or anywhere else, I haven't bought any music except bands I was already familiar with or stuff I here on the radio on the way to work. I think what's happened has made it a lot harder than it should be for new bands to get their music out. It's sad, but these days, if ya don't get onto cbc, I probably won't here ya. I don't even bother checking out place like mp3.com any more to much effort , needs to much of my attention.
post #38 of 62
I steal music, I steal movies, I steal games, I steal apps and I have no remorse ... on the Internet I mean.
post #39 of 62
[quote]Originally posted by groverat:
<strong>For a lot of people it is a status thing. The same reason they download an assload of warez. (What do any of us need with a copy of Maya?)

I know people who download mp3s to put on CDs and then file away. I have 10.5g of mp3s that I listen to almost continuously.</strong><hr></blockquote>Yes, I suppose so. I know a guy that has two 80GB drives FILLED with mp3s and I know he doesn't listen to them all. The same guy has a library of CD's filled with warez, half of which he probably doesn't know what it does. Why? He needs it for "trading" so he can gain access to other warez servers and such. I think the only stuff he downloads that he actually uses are South Park episodes, DIVX'd movies, and the occasional porno.

I have about 8.25 GB of music, but I honestly wish I had more because that's only gives me four days of listening time, most of which I just skip right through because I've heard it already so much. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" /> I'm completely serious, folks. Like groverat, I actually listen to all my stuff. Also, I actually use all my fancy 3d, video, and productivity warez.
post #40 of 62
Since i don't have any huge drives to store mass amounts of MP3's I usually burn discs. Hell, with 50 cdr spindles so cheap, I like to download and burn to my hearts content. Then I can listen at leasure and see if I like something. If I do, I'll put it on my "to buy" list if it sucks, throw it or give it away. I can't even use jewl cases for these method anymore. Too many damn discs.

If something that I really know I will want (radiohead, U2...) I'll buy it. Otherwise I like to download and preview a lot of music I would never get a chance to hear.

Hotline cracks me up now. It's way too much of a status thing. All these servers with Warez, movies, MP3's and porn and 95% of them try to charge for you to download their illegal stuff. Granted when you have a personal T3 connection and 500 Gigs of storage it's costs them, but what's wrong with this picture? I have a freind who runs a movie server and he has all these movies he never watches. His 80 gig drive is full. Keeping his server up slows down his computer so that he can't play games or whatever. Why? Because he wants to show he as Harry Potter or something like that.
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