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Analysis affirms Apple's A7 processor closer to a desktop CPU than regular mobile chip - Page 2

post #41 of 198

I've stated all along that Apple's A7 is light years ahead of what Samsung and Qualcomm are doing.

 

I also stated previously that the A7 is so good that they don't really need to improve it. An A8 could simply be Apple's first quad core SoC using 4 A7 cores. Or they could ramp up the A7 clock to 2.0GHz and slightly tweak the design. Both would again give them a decent performance increase without a lot of effort.

 

I think the next big re-design will be reserved for the A9. Then again, Apple surprised us with the A6 & A7 and maybe they will again with the A8.

post #42 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

If Apple would to dump the A7 (or A8 if it's coming later this year) into a new device that had the battery capacity of the MBA, and then added more RAM to the mix, and maybe upped the GPU capacity and went retina (or 4K) with the display, Apple could come out with a new product with touch screen or touch pad, or mouse/keyboard control that could go places and do things no current device or computer has gone before.

I'm not bright enough to say what this might look like or do, but if matched with the right new software, it could define a new market as fresh as the iPad was...

Well, the creatives would eat it up if their apps ran (FCP, LogicPro, etc.). I strongly suspect that Apple already have ARM-native versions of their Pro apps running.

Also, it is probable that companies that cater to these same creatives, like Adobe, DeVinci, etc, -- already are experimenting with ARM implementations.


Finally, most of the downside (neither fish nor fowl) issues can be mitigated by:

including x86 and ARM chips in the same device

or

using the cloud servers to support the x86 apps not [yet] available on ARM.
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post #43 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hattig View Post

The increased thermal headroom of a MacBook Air compared to an iPhone or iPad would allow a design to run at faster speeds for more of the time (most of the processing time in an iPhone or iPad is actually spent in "race to idle" mode - long battery lives are only achieved by being idle most of the time).  I don't think they would use two A8s, they would probably fab an A8X or clock the A8 faster due to the increased thermal headroom.
People do need to understand that we don't know what the maximum clock rate on A7 is much less an unreleased A8. However ARM cores have been reported to run much faster than 1.6 GHz. If Apple can hit 2.6 GHz on a much faster memory bus I'm pretty sure that A7 or A8 would put many mainstream chips to shame.
Quote:

But I don't think Apple is in the right place yet to release a ARM device running Mac OS X - all the software is compiled for x86-64 currently, not ARM.
On modern hardware recompiles take place in minutes, it is seldom an all day ordeal anymore.
Quote:
There would have to be a period of time where ARM was enabled for all software builds in XCode for Mac OS X.  I believe Apple uses the threat of ARMing themselves to make Intel provide its CPUs at a reasonable price.

That could very well be triple to an extent but do realize that Intel is under supervision, their ability to offer discounts is limited to volume. However the very fact that Apple is having huge success with ARM has certainly redirected Intels priorities.

The following months and years will be very interesting. If Intel isn't careful they could go the way of Kodak that didn't see the winds of change.
post #44 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Would be cool if a future iteration of the iPhone could be wirelessly connected to a keyboard, monitor, external storage and mouse to play the part of an instant Mac mini.

Sounds like you are describing an iPad with a BT keyboard and Airplay mirroring to a big screen. Even sounds a little like Carplay.
post #45 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveN View Post

The logical procession is that an A8 would make an Apple TV 4 quite powerful as you don't need to worry about battery power.

Bingo!, Powerful enough to replace the Mini as a desktop computer.
post #46 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

You are assuming that there would be fragmentation. There are a number of ways Apple could pull this off. One way is to make it an iOS laptop. The second would be to make it a Mac laptop that runs iOS apps in a window.

 

Isn't this what Microsoft did with Windows RT/8?  Simply moved the fragmentation downstream, to the user experience?

 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your meaning here.

post #47 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


Would there be technical and/or bargaining advantages by include an A8 in addition to an x86 chip on a Mac device?

 

What would Apple charge to install an A8 chip directly into my brain?

 

$79?


Better get the AppleCare with the install:  $1,000,000.

post #48 of 198
Flashback to Steve's comment after the first iPhone was announced.
Quote:
Quote:
We define everything that is on the phone. You dont want your phone to be like a PC. The last thing you want is to have loaded three apps on your phone and then you go to make a call and it doesnt work anymore. These are more like iPods than they are like computers.
post #49 of 198
Anand risks serious credibility problems by going against the meme and praising Apple's technology. The BYO elite spec-chaser crowd doesn't take kindly to praising Apple. /s

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post #50 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Anand risks serious credibility problems by going against the meme and praising Apple's technology. The BYO elite spec-chaser crowd doesn't take kindly to praising Apple. /s

I'm not sure why you added the sarcasm tag as this is quite true. Go read the comments from when he first started detailing and using Apple's products. It was not pretty. It's a lot less now but there are still some holdouts.
Edited by SolipsismX - 3/31/14 at 10:53am

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post #51 of 198

Tim Cook said Apple has been working on products in new categories. I wonder if A-chip based laptops would be constitute a new category. It may or may not be, depending on how one defines a category.

 

If Apple were to produce A-chip based laptops, it will also make MacPro with A-chips. This way, there is no fragmentation in the OSX platform. It's a big effort. But, if there is only 1 company in the world that can do it, it is probably Apple.

post #52 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blastdoor View Post

Anand is a smart guy and I appreciate his detective work (and that of his sources), but I found this paragraph a bit odd:

"The challenge is that at full tilt a pair of Cyclone cores can consume quite a bit of power. So for now, Cyclone's performance is really used to exploit race to sleep and get the device into a low power state as quickly as possible. The other problem I see is that although Cyclone is incredibly forward looking, it launched in devices with only 1GB of RAM. It's very likely that you'll run into memory limits before you hit CPU performance limits if you plan on keeping your device for a long time."

The overall impression from this text is that Cyclone, and the iPhone/iPad, are somehow unbalanced -- that there is a lot of performance potential that isn't being fully realized, and might never be fully realized in existing devices. Yet also contained in this text is the explanation for why Cyclone makes perfect sense: "Cyclone's performance is really used to exploit race to sleep and get the device into a low power state as quickly as possible." Anand makes it sound like this is a second or third order concern, but in the context of a mobile device, it's actually one of the most important concerns. Apple is trying to design a chip that gets its work done quickly, using as little power as possible. Given the physics confronting CPU designers, that means that you'd rather have more transistors running at a lower clock speed than the reverse. And given the nature of the software run on mobile devices, you'd rather have greater instruction level parallelism than thread level parallelism.

So the A7 is the perfect mobile SOC -- low clockspeed, high ILP, low TLP. it is perfectly balanced for its job. The fact that the cyclone core could also be the basis for a very credible desktop CPU is what's secondary here.

On another AI thread about Apple's sapphire capabilities, most of the discussion was about using the mono cell sapphire as the cover for iPads & iPhones and possible iWatch.

Aside: TC has said that the sapphire was for a new product [category?]. I doubt that the iWatch would require the capacities that Apple appears to be shooting for.

A subtopic of the AI thread led to a discussion whether the high volume of sapphire could be intended for another use than display covers ... One of the suggested uses for sapphire was semiconductor manufacturing. As it turns out, sapphire has better characteristics in [more] heat dissipation and [less] current leakage than silicon. Though, the sapphire process is less-mature [more expensive] than its silicon equivalent ...

But, and a big but: There is some activity experimenting with Silicon on Sapphire to get the best of both worlds.

Also, silicon can be used optically for things like lasers, cameras. In the past, there have been some research using optics to create efficient, high-performance dynamic and static memory (possible RAM, DRAM and SSD replacements?).


The AI sub-thread begins here:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jellybelly View Post

Several other uses for sapphire are in lasers and logic chips. GT is suspected of big advances in thinner layers of sapphire (it has been used as non-conductive oxide layer in logic chips, laid on silicon). Sapphire is also capable of being doped as in ruby lasers where ruby is the dopant-- but also with other dopants to create semiconductor chips. Perhaps Apple's considerable acquisition of chip development talent over the years along with significant yields and scale for GT and other aspects in sapphire would suggest a couple of options.
-
Sapphire allows for faster operations in use with silicon at lower power. This is critical in miniaturization with increase in speed and lower power requirements. And then there's the elephant in the room that has been assumed to further in the future -- blindingly fast optical circuits increasingly competitive in low power. This is getting interesting. This is admittedly unknowledgeable speculation on my part, but we know Apple has a wealth in logic design, has acquired more talent through acquisitions and partnerships -- where is this leading? Sapphire shows promise in solar as well. The adjacent property to the GT plant is expected to be used by the Apple GT partnership and may be used for solar power generation and/or production of solar devices.

Solar forays always involve battery advances, and the talks with Tesla may be a budding partnership in battery advances in design, yield and efficiency. Add to all this the research with carbon nanotubes in chip design (already associated with sapphire), and we may being seeing a feasible roadplan for 5 to 10 years for great advances by Apple and partners in compute power and speed at low power requirements on orders of magnitude allowing for very small embedded devices in wearables and household and commercial devices. The new net if you will.
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post #53 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Flashback to Steve's comment after the first iPhone was announced.

I had the very first version of Windows Mobile Phone Edition (a T-Mobile branded device made by HTC) way back in 2002, and that POS would frequently lockup when I got an incoming phone call, requiring a reset (there was a pinhole switch to reboot it). I was highly dissatisfied with the OS. Steve wasn't exaggerating. The iPhone is a more reliable OS.

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post #54 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I'm not sure why you added the sarcasm tag as this is quite true. Go read the comments from when he first started detailing and using Apple's products. It was not pretty. it's a lot less now but there are still some holdouts.

/s
No I hadn't read the comments there yet, but I've pursued their forums before (also DailyTech, which is unabashedly anti-Apple).
I stand corrected.

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post #55 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

MacBook Air? No.

Battery life and weight on the Air is already terrific, and performance has been improving. Why harm performance by going to ARM, around the same timeframe as MB Airs NEED more performance due to going retina (whenever that happens)?

And your Intel software would no longer run. And workarounds would involve major work for developers, and fat binaries what waste expensive SSD space.

So it would mean MASSIVE fragmentation for developers, and massive headache for users. The kind of thing you only do if the benefit is HUGE, or if you HAVE to (like the PPC->Intel transition). And you do it for ALL the Macs in the lineup. ARM-based MacBook Pros, iMacs and Mac Pros? Makes no sense any time soon.

Apple already has an ARM-based portable that IS a good idea. They don't need to add one that isn't.

I sure hope you are correct! I have $2500 ready to spend on a maxed out new retina MBA as soon as it is released.

No purchase for me unless its powered by an x86 processor from Intel.
post #56 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

I had the very first version of Windows Mobile Phone Edition (a T-Mobile branded device made by HTC) way back in 2002, and that POS would frequently lockup when I got an incoming phone call, requiring a reset (there was a pinhole switch to reboot it). I was highly dissatisfied with the OS. Steve wasn't exaggerating. The iPhone is a more reliable OS.
I just find it amusing considering what the iPhone turned into (million apps, desktop class chip). Basically Steve was wrong about what the iPhone was (would become).
post #57 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTiconderoga View Post

Fragmentation is a serious issue to be sure.

But . . .

An A8 chip would cost about $12, allowing Apple to sell an A8 laptop for $699 (and at a higher profit margin). It would also have about 120 hours of battery life. Oh, and if they put 8 cores into the thing, it would run circles around Haswell.

And since the ARM is basically a PPC, the SDK's are all there, and much of the code is already written. It would just need an updating.

Ohhh... That's an interesting idea -- like an inexpensive, quality netbook that can actually be used for something.

I suspect that the PPC SDKs would not be needed -- likely, Apple already has current OSX [including all the APIs form iOS] running on ARM.
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post #58 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

According to the article the A7 is hampered by the amount of RAM available to it... which, in turn is limited by the drain on the battery more RAM would add. That's my take-away..

 

Perhaps Apple should stop obsessing with thinness (the 5/5S are too thin in my book - the 4/4S were perfect) and instead add RAM and battery capacity to really open up the full power of these devices.

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post #59 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Could Apple stick 2X A8s in a slim MacBook Air?

One would be good enough. The biggest hurdle to SoC performance these days is bandwidth to RAM. If Apple solves that an A8 would be fine.

How do you resolve that:
  • put the RAM on the SoC
  • more/shorter paths to discrete RAM
  • redesign RAM to something like Optical RAM
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post #60 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

MacBook Air? No.

Battery life and weight on the Air is already terrific, and performance has been improving. Why harm performance by going to ARM, around the same timeframe as MB Airs NEED more performance due to going retina (whenever that happens)?

And your Intel software would no longer run. And workarounds would involve major work for developers, and fat binaries what waste expensive SSD space.

So it would mean MASSIVE fragmentation for developers, and massive headache for users. The kind of thing you only do if the benefit is HUGE, or if you HAVE to (like the PPC->Intel transition). And you do it for ALL the Macs in the lineup. ARM-based MacBook Pros, iMacs and Mac Pros? Makes no sense any time soon.

Apple already has an ARM-based portable that IS a good idea. They don't need to add one that isn't.

If Apple releases ARM-based Macs i don't see how is this affect you? is not like Apple will stop making Intel-based Macs

 

Macs with Intel is for people who can afford, and for people who can't afford ARM Mac is the answer

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post


Huh? Why would you think Apple will use last years' tech in the MBA?

I don't know maybe because of better battery life, thinner, lighter and cheaper MacBook Air  

 

 

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post #61 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I just find it amusing considering what the iPhone turned into (million apps, desktop class chip). Basically Steve was wrong about what the iPhone was (would become).

It seems to me that by the time he had returned from the "wilderness years," Steve could and did open holes in his RDF to get to the ground truth of his initial assumptions. This made him a much more effective "product guy". It didn't mean he was perfect, but it honed his incredibly prescient consumer taste (sense of where the market was going to be).

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post #62 of 198
I still think Apples next killer app could be to use the iPhone like a portable dock able computer. Plug your iPhone into the dock and the monitor/keyboard/mounse switches from your Mac desktop to the desktop of the iPhone with full mouse and keyboard functionality. When you're done simply unplug it and nothing is left behind. The iPhone has limited access to the Mac ecosystem if at all and vise verse. The iPhone would be like a ultra-portable Mac Mini. And now with M$ Office... they could take over the world!
They could sell a dock station that connects a mouse, keyboard & monitor to the iPhone. Talk about a post-PC world!!
post #63 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by richlo View Post

So at this point would iOS be the inhibiting factor in unleashing the A7 power?

No. Read the article again please. It’s battery life that is inhibiting things. All that power takes a lot of power to perform. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by daveinpublic View Post

Confuscious says, the comment section is not what you think it is... It's not meant to talk about the article, but rather to respond to the first comment. 1wink.gif

 

And most of us bozos don’t have a clue what we’re talking about. We just like to see ourselves pontificate in print.

post #64 of 198
This is how Apple migrates everything while keeping it secret. I wouldn't be surprised if by the time the A9 came out, it was in some lower end iMac's and MacBooks.
post #65 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phone-UI-Guy View Post


Sounds like you are describing an iPad with a BT keyboard and Airplay mirroring to a big screen. Even sounds a little like Carplay.

 

Very similar. The difference being that the iPhone could eventually become both the desktop and portable for everyone eventually.

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post #66 of 198
The A7 in the iPhone is clocked at just under 1.3 GHz, if they doubled that clock speed to what you might see in an Intel i5 (as used in the 13" MBPr I'm writing this with!) both dual-core 64 bit processors, I wonder how close in performance the two would be?
post #67 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS11 View Post

A couple years ago Canonica was showing off full Ubuntu running on a smartphone that could dock into a tablet, TV, or desktop PC.  

Not exactly crazy or new.

[image[

There have been shipping smartphones running Android that docked to become tablets or "PCs". So far it hasn't been a successful product.

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post #68 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Flashback to Steve's comment after the first iPhone was announced.
" You dont want your phone to be like a PC. The last thing you want is to have loaded three apps on your phone and then you go to make a call and it doesnt work anymore. "

I actually did that once (maybe thrice) on my jaIlbroke iPhone 3GS. We were heading up to visit my family and I had the Tom Tom app running, infinite tunes was streaming my favorite radio station to my Bluetooth headphones , and I had enabled the wifi hotspot for the wife to get online (some sort of crisis at work and she had to remotely log in). Email and all the other background processes were running normally, but even though it was plugged in it was slowly discharging the battery. I was amazed at how well that worked on my phone. Then my mom called and it crashed. Hard. 1wink.gif
Like mothers everywhere, she does tend to have that effect on technology.

My point is that even then when everyone was saying that iOS was just a toy , I was marveling at how powerful a pocket computer it really was. Given the improvements Apple has made to the hardware since then , I suspect they could take it (iOS and the A series chips) to any form factor that they wish. Even if they don't make an air like notebook, the fact that they could, has to be making Chipzilla nervous.
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post #69 of 198
Steve (PBUH) said "we don't know how to make a $500 computer that's not a piece of crap". At the time, that was true. Maybe now it's not. A lot of people use laptops just for web browsing and a few simple functions that would be covered by Apple's free apps (iLife, iWork). Apple could undoubtedly now build a netbook-like, but high-quality notebook that would be super-thin, super-light, with great battery life, and several hundred dollars cheaper with an A-series processor instead of Intel's overpriced chips.

Before the iPad came out, this would have involved them in the race to the bottom that the other computer manufacturers were involved in, desperately scrambling to cut their own throats quicker than the other guy. Now, though, the bottom of the computer market no longer exists. It's been replaced by mobile devices.

I think at $500 or $600, people would snap up an Apple-quality equivalent of a Chromebook that could browse the web and run the iLife and iWork suites (which I guarantee Apple has running on ARM already). As time went on, there could be other apps in the App Store specially written for them, as developers came on board, but really, just the basic Safari, iWork, iLife setup could handle 90% of most people's needs.

Again, before the iPad, if they had brought out something like this, it would have sucked a lot of sales from the MacBook Air and MBP. Now though, their sales are falling as people buy iPads (and iPhones) instead. The fall will stabilize since there are a certain number of people who need the greater capability. The ARM notebook would just be a new niche market for people who don't need the power of an MBA or MBP, but need a little more than a tablet. It may just be a niche, but why not control all of them?
post #70 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

An independent analysis of the microarchitecture behind Apple's latest A7 processor has shown that the company was not overstating when it called the design "desktop class," with the new silicon matching up well against Intel's recent desktop components.

This required "independent analysis"? Or, you know, you can simply read the ARMv8-A reference manual for this information.


Edited by Negafox - 3/31/14 at 12:21pm
post #71 of 198

I thought that originally everyone in the smartphone industry said the whole nonsense about the A7 was just marketing BS.  However, aren't Qualcomm's high-end Snapdragon chips every bit as powerful as Apple's A7?  I'm guessing that all the different companies high-end processors are pretty much in the same ballpark when it comes to processing power.  Usually one company never gets that much further than another because most companies are privy to the same technology.  It's not like some aliens came down and gave one company some extra knowledge.  Samsung's Galaxy S5 processor is basically an off the shelf processor with a slightly higher clock-speed than some competitor's offerings but it's still pretty powerful.  Apart from the Galaxy S5 not having a 64-bit processor I'm sure it's up there with the A7 in processing power and graphics capabilities.  I'm rather curious how they compare but Apple's A8 will probably make a big leap forward that maybe even Qualcomm or Nvidia will find it hard to keep pace with.

post #72 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Flashback to Steve's comment after the first iPhone was announced.

Before the app store ;)

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post #73 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1983 View Post

The A7 in the iPhone is clocked at just under 1.3 GHz, if they doubled that clock speed to what you might see in an Intel i5 (as used in the 13" MBPr I'm writing this with!) both dual-core 64 bit processors, I wonder how close in performance the two would be?


Overclocking would not help much. The A7 is not quite at par with even a Intel Core 2 Duo (and definitely nowhere near an i3). The ARM Cortex-A53 which Apple's A7 is based upon is not meant for desktop level performance. The ARM Cortex-A57 is supposed to be more comparable in which AMD is releasing a server chip (Opteron A1100) later this year based upon. Rumors are the Opteron A1100 will be priced around $100 which would be ridiculously inexpensive for a server chip. It would be interesting if Apple developed their own in-house chip based upon the Cortex-A57 for consumer-level Macs.


Edited by Negafox - 3/31/14 at 12:38pm
post #74 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS11 View Post

Why limit themselves with an iOS/ARM device in the first place?

An Intel Airmont SoC (2x~4x the performance of Silvermont) will be low cost, high efficiency and capable of running OS X.

Fine, use that in the MacBook Air. It's impossible to build anything cheaper than that if you have to pay Intel's piratical prices. This would be a new, lower price category.
post #75 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

I thought that originally everyone in the smartphone industry said the whole nonsense about the A7 was just marketing BS.  However, aren't Qualcomm's high-end Snapdragon chips every bit as powerful as Apple's A7?  I'm guessing that all the different companies high-end processors are pretty much in the same ballpark when it comes to processing power.  Usually one company never gets that much further than another because most companies are privy to the same technology.  It's not like some aliens came down and gave one company some extra knowledge.  Samsung's Galaxy S5 processor is basically an off the shelf processor with a slightly higher clock-speed than some competitor's offerings but it's still pretty powerful.  Apart from the Galaxy S5 not having a 64-bit processor I'm sure it's up there with the A7 in processing power and graphics capabilities.  I'm rather curious how they compare but Apple's A8 will probably make a big leap forward that maybe even Qualcomm or Nvidia will find it hard to keep pace with.

1) Not everyone, but plenty did.

2) From what I've seen they aren't. Within Anand's device testing higher-clocked devices with more core, etc. are not beating the new Apple iDevices. But I think this is all beside the point if we don't specifically talk about a performance-per-Watt when it comes to a mobile device.

3) Regarding CPU performance that has mostly been true because we're mostly comparing vendor systems that use a different vendor's CPU. With ARM there are different kinds of licenses. Apple first did what everyone did, but then slowly moved to add more and more of their own designs which became the A-chip to make an SoC that was designed to work with Apple's other HW and OS. This is key and I think Samsung is the only one vendor that could follow Apple here unless Qualcomm wants to starts releasing their own smartphones and tablets. (Anand explains this much better than I ever could… looking for article)

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post #76 of 198
Damn!!!!!!
post #77 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

1) Where are the people that laughed at Apple for buying PA Semi?

2) I love how I hear everyday from people that Apple isn't innovating because they define it as releasing an entirely new product category. Now I don't expect the average person to understand how this chip is innovative and well ahead of the market but I do expect them to at least understand that unseen innovations are still innovations.

3) I don't think 2x A8's is the right way to go. Better to use more cores, or simply up the clock as Anand states these handheld devices are clocked too low to take full advantage of this "desktop class" chip.

4) I do think a small, 12", low-power notebook could happen. Between the Apple's ARM chips now being 64-bit, it's performance-per-Watt, the high cost of Intel's CULV CPUs in the MBA, the universality of web-based apps, and the Mac App Store I think it's not out of the realm of possibility that Apple could update Xcode to allow Mac apps to be compiled for x86_64 and AArch_64 for MAS. I wouldn't expect Apple to cut out the old-school download and install method but allow developers who have a viable product that will work on ARM to adjust and recompile like with the transitions from PPC. I also wouldn't expect a Rosetta-like option since the performance envelope will be going the other direction in both the chip and by not starting near the top of the performance line. This move could get Apple to make a MBA-like device that comes in several hundred less expensive than today with more than double the battery life for the current size/weight, that fits the needs of the user who isn't playing Resident Evil 5 on a 12" machine or using the Adobe Suit 6. If Chromebooks can gain some traction without MS Office and Adobe apps then so can an ARM-based Mac-like notebook.

5) QFT: "Looking at [Apple's A7 SoC] makes one thing very clear: the rest of the players in the ultra mobile CPU space didn't aim high enough. I wonder what happens next round." ~Anand Shimpi

If you take the bolded software users above out of the mix for a forward thinking computing device i.e >50% of most "desktop" user's needs, they would be more than happy with the power that a single or dual A7 or new A8 provides. Many aready are.

An iPad Pro 12"-13" with these or new A8 chips plus an "iHome Cloud Server" in adition to some changes to iCloud itself, would be a killer set up for many people.... at... get this, the same price or cheaper than a base config MBP. More margin for Apple as well.***

Retina MBPs, iMacs and MPs for everyone else that needs (or think they need) "trucks".

*** Throw in a newly designed AppleTV and the "post-PC revolution" is in full swing and sees Apple dominating the home and living room.

NOTE: I think a shout out should go to Mr. Steve Ballmer... because as silly as he looked saying these words, he was dead on, and it's what Apple has in spades these days to make this all happen.

"Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers... Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers.....(not so much as a drop of sweat later from Apple)... Developers! 1smoking.gif
Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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post #78 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS11 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac-sochist View Post

Fine, use that in the MacBook Air. It's impossible to build anything cheaper than that if you have to pay Intel's piratical prices. This would be a new, lower price category.
Airmont will cost anywhere from $30~$40.  

The current Haswell Core i5 in the MBA costs $315.

Is that Apple's price or the half-price deal they had to give the "Ultrabook" manufacturers so they could compete with the MacBook Air?

Doesn't matter. If Intel is selling anything for $30-$40 (just to be clear, I don't believe that for a second), its capabilities are going to be enormously less than that Haswell processor. I'm sure an A8 (whatever it may turn out to be) could run rings around it, and cost <$20.

And before you said "why bother with an iOS/ARM device anyway?" I'm not proposing an iOS device. I'm sure Apple has desktop versions of Safari, iLife, and iWork running on ARM chips right now, and that's all a lot of people really need. Some people buy Chromebooks, don't they?

Microsoft tried the same thing with the Surface RT, but they didn't have real usable applications that could run on it. Apple, I'm willing to bet, does.
post #79 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post

Retina MBPs, iMacs and MPs for everyone else that needs (or think they need) "trucks":

The minivan of computers. Loved by soccer* moms everywhere.


* Do other countries have a similar term?

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #80 of 198

How can this be true?:\

 

Some morons on the internet like to say that iPhones and iPads are just toys.:wow:

 

The fact of the matter is that these morons have always been clueless. Apple is so far ahead of the game. iOS devices are being used more and more as desktop replacements all of the time. Sure, they do make wonderful toys, if that's somebody's intention, but iOS devices are also increasingly being used to replace various tasks traditionally done on desktops and laptops. For some people, an iOS device is all they'll ever need.

 

And now we find out that the A7 chip is closer to a desktop CPU than a regular mobile chip? Well, I for one am not surprised at all.

 

Best mobile OS? iOS by far. It's far more efficient than anything else, it's more powerful and has the best design and most apps. 

 

Best mobile CPU? Apple's A series by far. I can't wait to pick up my next iPad, which will have an A8 chip inside of it. That thing is going to be sweet. If I meet an ignorant Fandroid and they start blabbering about meaningless specs, I'm going to have no choice but to smack them upside the head with my new iPad Air. I have no patience for rude and ignorant fools.

 

Best Apps, Appstore and eco system? Apple of course, duh. Anything of importance is made for iOS, often exclusively. And need I even mention the gigantic business of third party iOS accessories?

 

Best users? Apple users of course. Most are not ignorant when it comes to tech purchases, they aren't fooled by meaningless specs, they aren't fooled by pathetic, lying astroturf campaigns and they appreciate the best that money can buy.

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