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Analysis affirms Apple's A7 processor closer to a desktop CPU than regular mobile chip - Page 3

post #81 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS11 View Post

$315 is the price listed on ARK.

A $37 Z3770 (Silvermont) already outperforms Apple's A7, the Z3795 even more-so. 

14nm Airmont is the replacement to 22nm Silvermont.  Airmont is expected to offer 3x~4x the performance of Silvermont.  Airmont is coming around the time an A8 would release, and Airmont's successor (14nm Goldmont) will be out before Apple's A9. 

Aren't these the kind of Intel "Atom" processors that made netbooks such a miserable experience? I'm sorry, I simply don't believe anything Intel says on this subject. I'm pretty sure an A8 would outperform any crippled bottom-of-the-line Intel device. Hey, for the price of that Haswell processor, they could build a laptop with a 32-core (16 A8s) CPU, with money to spare!
post #82 of 198
The A7 is limited to 31 bits of address space (2GB) by iOS 7 currently. While it is technically a 64 bit operating system, Apple found it to be more efficient to limit address space. Many developers, including myself, are hoping to see at least 42 bits of address space in iOS 8. Then we will see real competition with desktop computers.
post #83 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Could Apple stick 2X A8s in a slim MacBook Air?
2 chips isn't really the best idea, a A8X would fit better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

MacBook Air? No.

Battery life and weight on the Air is already terrific, and performance has been improving. Why harm performance by going to ARM, around the same timeframe as MB Airs NEED more performance due to going retina (whenever that happens)?

And your Intel software would no longer run. And workarounds would involve major work for developers, and fat binaries what waste expensive SSD space.

So it would mean MASSIVE fragmentation for developers, and massive headache for users. The kind of thing you only do if the benefit is HUGE, or if you HAVE to (like the PPC->Intel transition). And you do it for ALL the Macs in the lineup. ARM-based MacBook Pros, iMacs and Mac Pros? Makes no sense any time soon.

Apple already has an ARM-based portable that IS a good idea. They don't need to add one that isn't.
Arm right now can't meet intels chips, it is true. They do meet some levels and at this point run windows(May not be full form). No they could never take the Mac pros Xeon chips place, A device similar to MBA seperate to it may come (like retina Mac book pro) and slow into its spot threw time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

According to the article the A7 is hampered by the amount of RAM available to it... which, in turn is limited by the drain on the battery more RAM would add. That's my take-away..
Of course 64 bit allowed from the current 1 gb(2 on some android) to 4>, The current proccesor could make a Intel level at A8 but is avoided.
post #84 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS11 View Post
 

What did I just read?!  

 

You really need to tone down the rhetoric, smacking someone in the head with what could be considered a weapon is not how civilized people deal with problems.

 

They are welcome to use their plastic coated devices to deflect the hit. We'll see which device survives.

 

And secondly, you should probably get a sense of humor, it's called a joke.

post #85 of 198
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Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

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Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post

Retina MBPs, iMacs and MPs for everyone else that needs (or think they need) "trucks":

The minivan of computers. Loved by soccer* moms everywhere.


* Do other countries have a similar term?

futbol mamas
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post #86 of 198

We haven't seen an update to the Mac Mini for awhile... nor have we seen an update to the Apple TV for awhile...

I wonder if Apple is developing an ARM based Mac Mini/ATV combo.

 

Time will tell.

post #87 of 198

Don't get me wrong,  I have a iPad Mini Retina and it is great improvement of my iPhone 5 and iPad 2.  But I have to laugh when people compare ARM based cpus to Intel CPU's.   Do you know the difference between ARM ( RISC ) and Intel ( CISC ) - Basically depending on instruction a single Intel instruction requires multiple ARM based instruction to do the same execution step.  So it actually depends on what you trying to do and how well the compiler is written that makes the difference,

 

Yes ARM is good for low power situations - but I also have an Lenovo Miix 2 8 which has a very low power cpu - with 8 plus hours of batter that is similar processing to my 2010 MacBook AIR that I typing this one and both are significantly faster than my iPad Mini Retina in my opinion.

 

One big difference with both MacBook Air and Lenovo,  they can also run Windows applications - MacBook AIR can also run existing OS X application.  ARM based cpu are very far away from running desktop applications -  Like Autocad 3d,  Photoshop CS, Lightwave 3d., Solidworks and other high applications.

 

Now I read one of comments on MacPro using ARM based processor.  Have any you ever research the difference between Xeon and non Xeon cpus - the level processing power is significantly different between the two architecture..  I have 8 year old dual Xeon 5160 machine that until Intel came out with with i5 and i7 machines - it will run circles around any desktiop or notebook.  It actually faster than my Surface Pro

 

Another factor that comes into play,  if Apple was going to replace the Mac line,  they would loose software compatibility with all software running on Mac OS X.

 

This is not to say one day, Apple could come up with MacBook Air like machine running a version of OS X.  I would like to see Apple come up with tablet running a touch version of Mac OS X with Intel CPU.  This would allow to run VMWare on such an device - as a developer of Windows Applications this one thing that would be nice - porting applications to OS X is currently out of question because of nature of software.

post #88 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Negafox View Post


Overclocking would not help much. The A7 is not quite at par with even a Intel Core 2 Duo (and definitely nowhere near an i3). The ARM Cortex-A53 which Apple's A7 is based upon is not meant for desktop level performance. The ARM Cortex-A57 is supposed to be more comparable in which AMD is releasing a server chip (Opteron A1100) later this year based upon. Rumors are the Opteron A1100 will be priced around $100 which would be ridiculously inexpensive for a server chip. It would be interesting if Apple developed their own in-house chip based upon the Cortex-A57 for consumer-level Macs.

My work pc is an intel core 2 duo and runs several demanding program's at the same time: all of the MS office suite, web browser and several GIS systems. Are you suggesting this is not powerful enough for the average home user?
post #89 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac-sochist View Post


Aren't these the kind of Intel "Atom" processors that made netbooks such a miserable experience? I'm sorry, I simply don't believe anything Intel says on this subject. I'm pretty sure an A8 would outperform any crippled bottom-of-the-line Intel device. Hey, for the price of that Haswell processor, they could build a laptop with a 32-core (16 A8s) CPU, with money to spare!

I have a  Lenovo Miix 2 8 which has a Z3740 which is same cpu power as 2010 MacBook Air that I am typing this on.   The newer are significantly faster than old atoms - I should just for one installed Lightwave 3d on the device - I would say it would be many years before ARM ( even multi cpu ) machine could handle that kind of software.

 

The big difference in ARM and INTEL is RISC vs CISC.  Yes the article states that A7 has same number instruction per cycle. But by definition of RISC - Reduce Instruction Set -  it takes more instructions to compute the same as some of single instruction in CISC architexture.   Haswell CPU have AVX 2.0 instruction which with some video software are known to increase video rendering software significantly.

post #90 of 198
Quote:
Another factor that comes into play, if Apple was going to replace the Mac line, they would loose software compatibility with all software running on Mac OS X.

Yep. And ARM is nowhere near powerful enough to provide an emulation layer for X86 at a reasonable performance at this time either.
Edited by Negafox - 3/31/14 at 3:41pm
post #91 of 198

Keep in mind the main reason why Intel went to these cpus - it make the technology go mobile.  

 

Also as we know - the more multitasking a cpu does the more it used power,  this is why Apple limits in multitasking in iOS - otherwise it would hamper Battery life and performance of applications.

 

Intel is not sleeping now - they completely understand the threat of ARM cpus - and working their tales off. 

 

Just for information,  I am not Intel employee - but have professional work on Intel based applications for 20+ years including some low level operating system work.  It totally amazing that Intel has the power of Core 2 Duo in a 8in tablet with Z3740 cpu in my Lenovo Miix 2 8

post #92 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosslad View Post


My work pc is an intel core 2 duo and runs several demanding program's at the same time: all of the MS office suite, web browser and several GIS systems. Are you suggesting this is not powerful enough for the average home user?

Is this meant to be a bizarre straw man argument? I never implied anything of the sort.

post #93 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

If Apple would to dump the A7 (or A8 if it's coming later this year) into a new device that had the battery capacity of the MBA, and then added more RAM to the mix, and maybe upped the GPU capacity and went retina (or 4K) with the display, Apple could come out with a new product with touch screen or touch pad, or mouse/keyboard control that could go places and do things no current device or computer has gone before.

I'm not bright enough to say what this might look like or do, but if matched with the right new software, it could define a new market as fresh as the iPad was...

You're right. It'll be the iPad Pro. Not Luke the MBA or iPad Air. It'll be different platform. Remember the patents of smart enclosure that has concealed led's for keyboard and other features? That all spells iPad pro. Not just a bigger screen.
post #94 of 198
The obvious to me is the appla tv for gaming. Basicly power supplied to the chipset is what's holding it back. A apple tv won't have those constrains. To bad android consoles fail it would have given apple a push to make apple tv a gaming console to.
post #95 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by daveinpublic View Post

Confuscious says, the comment section is not what you think it is... It's not meant to talk about the article, but rather to respond to the first comment. 1wink.gif

Confucius say: you make name too long. lol.gif
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post #96 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrangerFX View Post

The A7 is limited to 31 bits of address space (2GB) by iOS 7 currently. While it is technically a 64 bit operating system, Apple found it to be more efficient to limit address space. Many developers, including myself, are hoping to see at least 42 bits of address space in iOS 8. Then we will see real competition with desktop computers.

The comment above is full of myths and misconceptions.

 

For the real scoop, you might enjoy reading this article:

 

https://www.mikeash.com/pyblog/friday-qa-2013-09-27-arm64-and-you.html

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post #97 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

The comment above is full of myths and misconceptions.

For the real scoop, you might enjoy reading this article:

https://www.mikeash.com/pyblog/friday-qa-2013-09-27-arm64-and-you.html

What in particular are you referring?

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post #98 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMacMan View Post

You're right. It'll be the iPad Pro. Not Luke the MBA or iPad Air. It'll be different platform. Remember the patents of smart enclosure that has concealed led's for keyboard and other features? That all spells iPad pro. Not just a bigger screen.
I am not sure. Apple will not mess with the iPad - way too successful / new / awesome. Though an iPad Pro is a possibility I suspect it is the MBA that is likely to be 'messed' with. Pros are way to conservative when it comes to their toolset (for good reasons) and developing a pro tablet from scratch seems too risky and niche, to me. The aging MBA is ripe for development, however. I like the idea of a new platform, somewhere in between a chrome book, OSX and iOS, with extended battery life, lower price, and I suspect a completely new keyboard (touch with haptic feedback).
A device like this would create a clearer division between the existing pro line and the consumer line (a good thing in my opinion) and be as capable, or close to, the current mba's.
post #99 of 198

Anand is now an analyst.  I've seen it all.

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post #100 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigawire View Post

Anand is now an analyst.  I've seen it all.


It fits him much better than the analysts I assume you're thinking of.

analyst |ˈanl-ist|
noun
• a person who conducts analysis.

analysis |əˈnaləsis|
noun (pl. analyses |-ˌsēz| )
• detailed examination of the elements or structure of something.
• the process of separating something into its constituent elements.

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post #101 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Negafox View Post

This required "independent analysis"? Or, you know, you can simply read the ARMv8-A reference manual for this information.
Say what? All ARMv8 defines is an instruction set. Apple built a processor that runs ArMv8 faster than ARM's own cores can. Nothing in any ARM documentation will tell you how many instructions the A7 can do at once or how deep the pipeline is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

I thought that originally everyone in the smartphone industry said the whole nonsense about the A7 was just marketing BS.  However, aren't Qualcomm's high-end Snapdragon chips every bit as powerful as Apple's A7?  I'm guessing that all the different companies high-end processors are pretty much in the same ballpark when it comes to processing power.  Usually one company never gets that much further than another because most companies are privy to the same technology.  It's not like some aliens came down and gave one company some extra knowledge.  Samsung's Galaxy S5 processor is basically an off the shelf processor with a slightly higher clock-speed than some competitor's offerings but it's still pretty powerful.  Apart from the Galaxy S5 not having a 64-bit processor I'm sure it's up there with the A7 in processing power and graphics capabilities.  I'm rather curious how they compare but Apple's A8 will probably make a big leap forward that maybe even Qualcomm or Nvidia will find it hard to keep pace with.
What a load of crap. I knew there was a reason I blocked you, but after seeing this drivel quoted I couldn't let you get away with posting lies.

Qualcomm Snapdragon processors only stay equal with the A7 because a) they have twice the cores and b) are clocked a full 1.0GHz faster. A single core of the A7 is 2.5x as fast as a single Snapdragon 800 core. And 2x as fast as a Samsung Exynos. Samsung and Qualcomm are so far behind it's not even funny. It's actually kind of pathetic.
Edited by EricTheHalfBee - 3/31/14 at 8:30pm

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post #102 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy View Post
 

What I'd give to see the fully working ARM port of OS-X that for sure Apple has in a lab somewhere deep in the bowels of One Infinity Loop.

first born sons are always a fungible assets, as are souls...

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by unknwntrr View Post

Get me an iPad with keyboard that snaps apps to the side like the surface and I'll replace my Notebook with an iMac and take the iPad on the go! Especially considering the next iPad will have an A8 thats likely going to be comparable with a low/middle-class notebook. I'd love a lighter mobile solution but as long as I need a computer on the go I won't have two computers and therefore have to use the Retina MacBook Pro to be able to do all my work. But on the go the power of an iPad would be more than enough!

 

I'm surprised there isn't  one on the market yet.  It would be nice have a lightning connected keyboard and battery pack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RadarTheKat View Post
 

Gaming.  In AppleTV.  High Performance Gaming.  With gesture control.  Gotta be what Apple is thinking.  It's ARM, therefore iOS compatible, where there are more and more immersive games.  That's gotta be where they're taking this.

 

my guess is that apple TV will never be the 'game...' it will be the display of a game running on your High performance game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WS11 View Post
 

$315 is the price listed on ARK.

 

A $37 Z3770 (Silvermont) already outperforms Apple's A7, the Z3795 even more-so. 

 

14nm Airmont is the replacement to 22nm Silvermont.  Airmont is expected to offer 3x~4x the performance of Silvermont.  Airmont is coming around the time an A8 would release, and Airmont's successor (14nm Goldmont) will be out before Apple's A9. 

performance = fast.

User experience = quick.

 

You don't have to be fast to be quick, if you can properly coordinate and anticipate your next move.   

 

The issue is designing an OS and HW set concurrently, as iOS and the A series are at the moment (Apple has tweaked the 1980s and prior era of 'design great hardware and then design an OS on top of it' to 'determine what is the compelling user experience possible, and then design a 'platform' of CPU, ancillary chips, OS, and key apps and services on the system and in the cloud (a simple but compelling point:  Apple's implementation of trust is built into the chips and systems at time of build, and almost everything in the OS requiring trust is built upon that bidirectional registration of apple's cert, and the device's cert at time of manufacture).

 

Intel et al are not optimizing Goldmont for 1 current version of iOS and 2 potential future versions.  and no OS is designed specifically for Goldmont.    Apple's unique position to put 'end user' requirements into the chip spec for 3-4 implementations allows for performance to be optimized.

 

I think the end game is that laptops (and the chips they rode in on)  become as irrelevant as mainframes are to end-user computing... they're out there but 99.999% of 'computer' users don't use them or don't realize they are using one in the background.  Thus, having the fastest chip means nothing if it wasn't designed to meet coordinated set of user needs.

 

Developers will eventually just develop in a cloud environment with an iOS device as the interface....  a little more sophisticated than Xwindows... although to me it's the ultimate endgame of Project Athena (central distribution of all rights and applications images to end devices... local computing with very little local storage relative to the 'network').  


Edited by TheOtherGeoff - 3/31/14 at 5:52pm
post #103 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS11 View Post
 

$315 is the price listed on ARK.

 

A $37 Z3770 (Silvermont) already outperforms Apple's A7, the Z3795 even more-so. 

 

14nm Airmont is the replacement to 22nm Silvermont.  Airmont is expected to offer 3x~4x the performance of Silvermont.  Airmont is coming around the time an A8 would release, and Airmont's successor (14nm Goldmont) will be out before Apple's A9. 

 

Where do you get this stuff from?

 

A single A7 core is actually about 40% faster than a single Z3770 core. The only reason the Z3770 is faster overall than an A7 is because it has 4 cores and is clocked higher (similar to Exynos or Qualcomm). What's impressive about needing double the cores and higher clock to get a measly 20% overall increase in performance? And this is based on raw processor scores. Look at results from actual applications and the A7 looks even better.

 

And I'm calling BS on the fact that Airmont is 3-4x the performance. Where is your source?

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post #104 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

Say what? All ARMv8 defines is an instruction set. Apple built a processor that runs ArMv8 faster than ARM's own cores can. Nothing in any ARM documentation will tell you how many instructions thevA7 can do at once or how deep the pipeline is.
What a load of crap. I knew there was a reason I blocked you, but after seeing this drivel quoted I couldn't let you get away with posting lies.

You're never wrong when you ignore Anandtech's analysis and just listen to your gut assumptions about the A7's performance.

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post #105 of 198
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Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


The minivan of computers. Loved by soccer* moms everywhere.


* Do other countries have a similar term?

 

Indeed we do, "Soccer Mums". (^_-)

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post #106 of 198
Everyone is missing the largest part of the puzzle. What is the biggest hole in Apple's entire line up?

It's servers! After Apple canned the XServe, they don't have anything targeting that space. Servers run largely stock software - no need to support gazillions of consumer grade software. A simple recompile inside the Apple labs will give servers all the software they need. Also, servers benefit a lot more from power gains - because they are on 24/7, and working hard almost all the time. No displays, no graphic RAM, no WiFi/3G to worry about. Its all entirely under Apple's control.

I expect a very low power, very small form factor (think smaller than AppleTV) server class machine from Apple. It will be good enough to do handle almost any needs of any one, including handling a large database.

Almost 95% of the databases in the world are less than 1GB in capacity - which means, an AppleTV class computer with a quad core 2 GHz A8, 2GB DDR5, 16GB Flash, Gigabit Ethernet is already very capable of running this database for most workloads. Any performance issue with CPU will be offset by gains from using Flash memory.

Also, there's something very interesting about AppleTV that no one has noticed. There is a LOT of wasted space inside the AppleTV, which makes very little sense, knowing Apple's penchant for making things as compact as possible. However, a quick analysis of the internal space reveals that it is perfect for keeping 4 AA size rechargeable batteries inside!

Can you imagine an AppleTV size server that comes with built in power backup that can keep your server running for 24 hours without power? And costs about $200?

A typical server requires more power for cooling it, than this server will require for running and cooling put together! In terms of upfront costs too, the savings are ridiculously high.

Can you imagine what that will do to the server market? This will be the holy grail of cloud computing - and will allow Apple to thrash Google and Amazon in the cloud space. There is absolutely no way anyone can compete with such a solution from Apple, without completely replacing their entire infrastructure!
Edited by macarena - 3/31/14 at 8:17pm
post #107 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by macarena View Post

Everyone is missing the largest part of the puzzle. What is the biggest hole in Apple's entire line up?

It's servers! After Apple canned the XServe, they don't have anything targeting that space. Servers run largely stock software - no need to support gazillions of consumer grade software. A simple recompile inside the Apple labs will give servers all the software they need. Also, servers benefit a lot more from power gains - because they are on 24/7, and working hard almost all the time. No displays, no graphic RAM, no WiFi/3G to worry about. Its all entirely under Apple's control.

I expect a very low power, very small form factor (think smaller than AppleTV) server class machine from Apple. It will be good enough to do handle almost any needs of any one, including handling a large database.

Almost 95% of the databases in the world are less than 1GB in capacity - which means, an AppleTV class computer with a quad core 2 GHz A8, 2GB DDR5, 16GB Flash, Gigabit Ethernet is already very capable of running this database for most workloads. Any performance issue with CPU will be offset by gains from using Flash memory.

Also, there's something very interesting about AppleTV that no one has noticed. There is a LOT of wasted space inside the AppleTV, which makes very little sense, knowing Apple's penchant for making things as compact as possible. However, a quick analysis of the internal space reveals that it is perfect for keeping 4 AA size rechargeable batteries inside!

Can you imagine an AppleTV size server that comes with built in power backup that can keep your server running for 24 hours without power? And costs about $200?

A typical server requires more power for cooling it, than this server will require for running and cooling put together! In terms of upfront costs too, the savings are ridiculously high.

Can you imagine what that will do to the server market? This will be the holy grail of cloud computing - and will allow Apple to thrash Google and Amazon in the cloud space. There is absolutely no way anyone can compete with such a solution from Apple, without completely replacing their entire infrastructure!

1) I like your thinking and have been wanting an iOS-based Apple Home Server for as long as the iPhone has existed. Before that I wanted a Mac OS X-based Apple Home Server. Windows actually does a pretty good job with their Home Server but it doesn't have the refinement that Apple could bring to the table. For this they have all the parts, they just need to make HW that can support multiple drives. Their Airport Utility would likely be the UI to the settings.

2) ARM blade servers are definitely catching on for reasons you've mentioned but in regards to Xserve I'm not sure Apple will ever want to get back into that market. If their $20 (great for the price) OS X Server option is the level they are falling even further behind Windows and *nix options when they dropped Xserve.

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post #108 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS11 View Post
 

The prices are from ARK.

 

Do keep in mind the Z3770 is being benchmarked while running x86 Windows 8.1, the A7 is running a lightweight iOS 7.x.  "Actual applications", such as? Last time I checked Bay Trail-T SoCs are running full desktop applications, the A7 is not.

 

Mind the "expected".  We still need to wait until Computex to get full details on Airmont (Cherry Trail-T), but we have found out some details (VR-Zone).

 

Z3770 (Silvermont) --> Z47xx (Airmont):

  • Process: 22 nm --> 14 nm
  • CPU turbo clock: 2.4 GHz --> 2.7 GHz
  • RAM: 2GB LPDDR3 @ 1066 MHz --> 8GB LPDDR3 @ 1600 MHz
  • Max memory bandwidth: 17.1 GB/s -->25.6 GB/s 
  • GPU: 4EU (Ivy Bridge - 7th gen) @ 667MHz burst --> 16EU (Broadwell - 8th gen) @ ???MHz burst 

 

We don't know what sort of additional advantages will come from the move to an 8th gen Broadwell GPU. As well, if there are any additional architectural changes to the CPU that would allow for even greater performance.  The bulk of the improvement is expected to come from the new GPU.  There will also be updated API support. 

 

Without getting too far off course, my suggestion was in response to Mac-sochist's idea of an Apple chromebook-like computer that would run an ARM SoC and utilize OS X like software.

 

An inexpensive Airmont (Cherry Trail-T) solution would offer the performance required to run OS X in its entirety, so there would be no need for Apple to have to fragment their system or spend the time creating/porting OS X applications for ARM.   This way it could fall in-line with the rest of the Macbook / OS X line-up.

 

So what you're saying is that you completely fabricated that 3-4X performance number. I'll go out on a limb and predict the Airmont SoC for mobile (not the one for laptops) will only be 50% faster than the current Z3770. We can come back to this thread in several months when it's out to see who's right (if you're still here).

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post #109 of 198
If Apple are trying to emulate the intel chips with their instruction structure, then it is possible that they are moving to replace intel.

Remember Apple were running an Intel version of MacOSX since the inception of the OSX.

By copying the structure they may be able to allow windows to run natively as well.
post #110 of 198
Apple may used an A series processor in a MacBook Air style laptop that ran iOS but with a mouse pointer GUI. Even if it only ran safari at first you would have access to the web, icloud, iWork for icloud, all they would have to do is creat iLife for icloud and iTunes for icloud. Developers could simply modify their ios apps to work with a pointer.
post #111 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blastdoor View Post

Anand is a smart guy and I appreciate his detective work (and that of his sources), but I found this paragraph a bit odd:

"The challenge is that at full tilt a pair of Cyclone cores can consume quite a bit of power. So for now, Cyclone's performance is really used to exploit race to sleep and get the device into a low power state as quickly as possible. The other problem I see is that although Cyclone is incredibly forward looking, it launched in devices with only 1GB of RAM. It's very likely that you'll run into memory limits before you hit CPU performance limits if you plan on keeping your device for a long time."

The overall impression from this text is that Cyclone, and the iPhone/iPad, are somehow unbalanced -- that there is a lot of performance potential that isn't being fully realized, and might never be fully realized in existing devices. Yet also contained in this text is the explanation for why Cyclone makes perfect sense: "Cyclone's performance is really used to exploit race to sleep and get the device into a low power state as quickly as possible." Anand makes it sound like this is a second or third order concern, but in the context of a mobile device, it's actually one of the most important concerns. Apple is trying to design a chip that gets its work done quickly, using as little power as possible. Given the physics confronting CPU designers, that means that you'd rather have more transistors running at a lower clock speed than the reverse. And given the nature of the software run on mobile devices, you'd rather have greater instruction level parallelism than thread level parallelism.

So the A7 is the perfect mobile SOC -- low clockspeed, high ILP, low TLP. it is perfectly balanced for its job. The fact that the cyclone core could also be the basis for a very credible desktop CPU is what's secondary here.

 

It called Apple spending R&D money wisely as usual, the A9 or A10 chips will be in a Mac laptop or Mac desktop in the future.

post #112 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post

This is what I have been saying and some people said that it was not possible. I believe Apples next move is put their own processors in to their laptop products. They do not need Intel at this point. I would not be surprise if they did not have a OSX port for their processors already.

 

Apple does, this is the same company that had OS X running on Intel chips for nearly 10 before switching to them. When Steve Jobs said OS X on the phone in 2007, I don't he was lying most (tech people) didn't want to believe it, just like Apple building their own chips has constantly derided.

post #113 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danox View Post

It called Apple spending R&D money wisely as usual, the A9 or A10 chips will be in a Mac laptop or Mac desktop in the future.

Will be? Do you have proof?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danox View Post

Apple does, this is the same company that had OS X running on Intel chips for nearly 10 before switching to them. When Steve Jobs said OS X on the phone in 2007, I don't he was lying most (tech people) didn't want to believe it, just like Apple building their own chips has constantly derided.

WWDC 2008. This was before after most of us were calling it iOS for the sake of brevity but a year or two before Apple officially named it iOS.


"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #114 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


1) Not everyone, but plenty did.

2) From what I've seen they aren't. Within Anand's device testing higher-clocked devices with more core, etc. are not beating the new Apple iDevices. But I think this is all beside the point if we don't specifically talk about a performance-per-Watt when it comes to a mobile device.

3) Regarding CPU performance that has mostly been true because we're mostly comparing vendor systems that use a different vendor's CPU. With ARM there are different kinds of licenses. Apple first did what everyone did, but then slowly moved to add more and more of their own designs which became the A-chip to make an SoC that was designed to work with Apple's other HW and OS. This is key and I think Samsung is the only one vendor that could follow Apple here unless Qualcomm wants to starts releasing their own smartphones and tablets. (Anand explains this much better than I ever could… looking for article)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Will be? Do you have proof?
WWDC 2008. This was before after most of us were calling it iOS for the sake of brevity but a year or two before Apple officially named it iOS.


 

Geek Rage love it, happens every time Apple moves forward by the way GTAT and LQMT are still cheap, and so is AAPL.

post #115 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danox View Post


Geek Rage love it, happens every time Apple moves forward by the way GTAT and LQMT are still cheap, and so is AAPL.

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #116 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Exactly. PowerPC–>Intel made a ton of sense. Intel–>ARM doesn’t, and won’t, for a very long time without drastic changes.

You are probably correct in thinking that Mac OS X will not run on ARM CPUs anytime SOON.

However I don't think it is outside the realm of possibility for Apple to introduce a desktop computer that only runs iOS (not a Mac).
I think this forward looking design shows that Apple is thinking about the future. We could also see ARM CPUs in a next gen server design and definitely if AppleTV is going to be the powerful gaming console we all want.
post #117 of 198

Here's what I think...

 

The iPhone 6 will have an A8, but it will still be dual core. I don't care what anyone says, having more than two cores in a device so small is overkill. You only need one for processing and one for user interaction.

 

The next iPad will have an A8X, and it will be quad core. Once apps start appearing that can take full advantage of the power, then Apple will release an iOS based laptop and desktop (all-in-one).

 

​This will happen by the end of 2015. 

Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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post #118 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about.

GTAT is GT Advanced Technologies and LQMT is Liquid Metal. No clue what he's saying though. Lol

2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

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2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

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post #119 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrashMyTstDummy View Post

We haven't seen an update to the Mac Mini for awhile... nor have we seen an update to the Apple TV for awhile...
I wonder if Apple is developing an ARM based Mac Mini/ATV combo.

Time will tell.

I think a desktop computer that looks like an iMac but runs iOS and has a 15-17" screen would be more likely. The main difference would be that it comes with a keyboard and no mouse and the stand allows the screen to fold down almost flat.

85-90% of the worlds desktops run Windows and many are looking for an alternative.
post #120 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosslad View Post

My work pc is an intel core 2 duo and runs several demanding program's at the same time: all of the MS office suite, web browser and several GIS systems. Are you suggesting this is not powerful enough for the average home user?

 

Yes.  It's slow for iLife even maxed out on ram.  

 

"Several" GIS systems?  Right.  ArcGIS will make a core 2 duo cry even with a SSD and maxed ram.  It's not exactly teh snappy even on a Core i7 with lots of raster layers and working with high rez DEMs.  Some open source ones are okay for very light duty but once you do anything significant you're bogged down.  The usual geotools stuff and geoserver will run on a Core 2 Duo but not under any sort of volume (either users or dataset size) without wasting a huge amount of time.  Your company is penny wise and pound foolish.  It is outright stupid to put any GIS user on a Core 2 Duo.

 

As hardware advances so does software and its demand for CPU cycles.  There's a reason that Apple specs the Core i5 as the minimum for a Mac.  

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