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Amazon takes on Apple TV with new $99 fireTV streaming & gaming set-top box - Page 5

post #161 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleTechSpot View Post

Didn't Roku try to say Apple was losing money on ATV (not that I believe that)? If that were true, well, Amazon would be losing bigtime on this device.

Another day another loss leader copycat device from Amazon. When is Amazon ever going to make money?

Didn't ya hear? Amazon makes boatloads of money but invests it all back into growing their business. That's why they're worth a PE 200+, because "some day" you'll also make a windfall dividend when Amazon decides they have grown the business enough for a while.

When that day is coming, "nobody knows but the Shadow".... 1smoking.gif
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post #162 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post
 

When? Apple dropped the ball here. Big time.

 

Whenever the **** they deem it's ready. No ball has been dropped. Noone is currently dominating the set top box market. It's a device in which compelling content requires extremely complex and numerous deals with the providers. This is not something Apple can just program or design. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by saarek View Post
 

True, but Apple could have and should have released the App Store for the ATV years ago when they launched the ATV 2. They seriously dropped the ball for no reason on this one. 

 

Oh, instead of dropping the ball "for a reason"? Maybe try to think of a more original expression- or maybe a more relevant one?

 

Seriously, enough with the fucking self-righteous "I want my new shiny toy now" ADHD bullshit. By all accounts the Apple TV currently seems like the best selling set top box out there. Apple is OBVIOUSLY working on a major revamp, but maybe, just MAYBE they are waiting for everything to fall in place before replacing it, including content deals and otherwise. More than likely, it will vastly surpass this Amazon box, which is nothing more than a blip on the radar, and not something Apple needs to "react" to. Clearly Apple has been thinking and working on this segment for a long time, and they will release something when it's ready. This mindless panicking whenver company X releases X product is just so damn tiresome. Grow up. 

post #163 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by macinthe408 View Post
 

 

You're right: We've all been saying "gimme now"...for two years. 

 

Apple has released a shitload of new products in the past 2 years, both hardware and software, and if you were paying attention you'd know that. Oh wait, you require a new "product category" every year from Apple, even though no other company has created a new category besides Apple in the past decade. No, "we" haven't been all saying that. Many of us have actually purchased and have been enjoying many Apple products the past couple years. Apparently, in your fictional world these products don't exist, and you prefer to wait for your magical unicorn. Stop being so entitled and spoiled.

post #164 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seankill View Post
 

I do not intend to play games on my TV, as I have an xbox 360 that I rarely, if ever, use. There is a market for the TV gaming though. Much like smartphones have cut into the mobile gaming, Apple TV could cut into console gaming and I would like to see Apple hit this market, it is unlikely to break records doing so but it is better than nothing at all. 

 

I just see so much more potential in the AppleTV and I am willing to bet Apple does too. Just hope they get to it. I know a few people whom opted for the Chromecast simply because it does enough where they are unable to justify another 60 bucks for the AppleTV.

 

We shall see. BTW, a large screened phone is far from "a few people" trying millions of handsets worth, look at all of the Androids. It is just a good idea for Apple to offer something in the 4.5-5'' range. They will too, just look at the rumors.

 

your 'potential' appears to be 'it could play games natively and be cheaper.'  I see the potential more as an extension of the apple ecosystem with a compelling 'one remote' interface (people want to veg in front of their TV)

 

Why do you think console gaming is better than 'gaming that displays on a TV.'    Apple's strategy is a personal game player, that displays on a TV.     problem solved.

 

Chromecast:  I want netflix on my dumb TV and I own an android phone and I'm cheap, for a few people (your market research redux).  Hardly a strategy for profits.  It's a gapping feature.    And I see it's gaming strategy the same.

 

fireTV:  much more impressive... as it ties into the amazon marketplace, and can run standalone.  It's not ground breaking... but it's credible and tied to a singular ecosystem.

 

 

iPhones:

 

growing the iPhone market by 10 million (you said millions... not '10's of millions) a year is less than 5% YoY growth.    I agree that larger phones are a good niche... but it's just that.  a niche.  I see the niche as the over 50yo crowd with presbyopia and/or don't want to replace their desktop with a laptop/iPad.  It's a growing niche, and should be addressed, but it's not going to compete in Asia if it's over $700 ASP, and still be the quality of an iPhone.

 

Looking at rumors is hardly a predictor of what Apple will do....

post #165 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

Apple has released a shitload of new products in the past 2 years, both hardware and software, and if you were paying attention you'd know that. Oh wait, you require a new "product category" every year from Apple, even though no other company has created a new category besides Apple in the past decade. No, "we" haven't been all saying that. Many of us have actually purchased and have been enjoying many Apple products the past couple years. Apparently, in your fictional world these products don't exist, and you prefer to wait for your magical unicorn. Stop being so entitled and spoiled.

Well when someone refers to a new "product category" they don't mean a totally new product that never existed before, but a product that Apple never made before.

I have noticed a funny trend with the comments on this site. Whenever a analyst is critical of Apple for not innovating, or introducing new breakthrough products the comments are here tend to be "why does Apple have to be the only innovative company?, can't someone else innovate for a change?, Apple isn't the R&D department for the world", and when a company introduces a arguably innovative device the comments change to "Apple is falling behind, why didn't Apple do this?, Apple dropped the ball, the competition is passing Apple"

This device should be popular with people already invested in Amazon's ecosystem. People that own Kindles, and/or are Prime members, and rent or purchase TV shows/movies from them already.
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post #166 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff View Post

Why do you think console gaming is better than 'gaming that displays on a TV.'    Apple's strategy is a personal game player, that displays on a TV.     problem solved

I meant to ask you about this when you mentioned it in a earlier post. How is somebody supposed to use a iPod Touch/iPhone/iPad as a controller without looking down at it and away from the TV? A gaming controller has joysticks, buttons, and triggers that the user can feel around for without having to look down, but a iDevice has a flat surface with virtual joysticks, and buttons that the user has to actively look at in order to use effectively.
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post #167 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_128 View Post

This argument doesn't work here, since ATV is Apple's entry into the marketplace, and has been around for years, essentially unchanged, as a "hobby", while they have let others slowly eat away their marketshare. Unlike the iPod, iPhone and iPad, the ATV should operate invisibly. Currently it doesn't, and now Amazon has jumped well ahead of where Apple should have been with their product at this point. Perhaps Apple will do something revolutionary, but the reality is, these devices hold no tangible emotional attachment the way the previous iDevices do, and this will ultimately be about leverging infrastructure. Amazon is a good match for iTunes in the marketplace, and hardware is just a matter of fact. Both will have identical features because they have to. Apple's challenge now is putting together a better entertainment experience which has nothing to do with a piece of hardware.

This. Oh yes, this. Of all the things that frustrate consumers, it is the concepts of licensing and ownership. "I paid for it, so I can do what I want with it." Not all all. Buy a movie on ATV? It might not play on a non Apple device. Buy somehting from Amazon? Yeah, it might not work on your Apple device.

Pays your money, you takes your chances. But...it isn't clear there is large money to be made making products that help somone else sell their stuff. Or is there?
post #168 of 190
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post #169 of 190

Apple better do something. Could it be their competitors are pushing devices out the door so fast that Apple has to reevaluate their planned offerings? And it doesn't matter at this point how good the competitors' offerings are; they get mindshare and spec-share from just getting something out. 

 

Apple has been promising something big for a couple of years now, and rumor mills have been generating speculative crap non-stop in the interim. Apple is preparing the hardware for big changes in software and functionality in the mobile space with the A7, it seems. But at some point, and soon, they will have to deliver. 

 

My concern with Apple at this point is perhaps they cannot deliver on many of the pieces they thought they could. In particular, Apple probably needs to use their cash to buy content providers. This includes book publishers, movie companies, and recording companies, and cable companies. They need to own and control the stack top to bottom. 

post #170 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

Apple better do something. Could it be their competitors are pushing devices out the door so fast that Apple has to reevaluate their planned offerings? And it doesn't matter at this point how good the competitors' offerings are; they get mindshare and spec-share from just getting something out. 

You do realize Apple TV has been out for a few years. Plus Apple doesn't rush to beat someone to be first. And Apple is rarely first to begin with.

How'd that workout for the Galaxy Gear.
post #171 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Yes, only Apple dropped the ball. Roku and Chromecast get a free pass. And Microsoft better start dropping the price of the Xbox One because this Amazon thing has quad cores for $99! That's good enough to play Titanfall. Watch as EA and Ubisoft abandon the expensive consoles for the $99 quad core thing.
I hope your joking about it being able to play Titanfall. People are pointing out Apple dropped the ball because one, this is an Apple centric site and two, Apple has tons and tons of cash but decided to do nothing to improve a very popular product.

Frankly, since Amazon Prime started offering free shows and movies I have stopped using my ATV as much. I have so much content available through Amazon and have their app on all three of my game consoles and my TV. I don't understand why ATV doesn't have the Amazon app while they do have it on the iphone and ipad. Sure, I can stream from there to the ATV but I don't want to always use my battery to do that.

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post #172 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post
 

So I checked this out at Amazon.com and they have some nice features but they are definitely missing a few things:

  •  
  • No built-in power supply (wallwart power adapter)
  •  

 

I fail to understand why people think this is a big deal for a device that you set and forget. My Macbook pro on the other hand has an external PS which is a PITA. It would make more sense for a portable device to have a built in PS than a device that never moves.

 

Never moves?  I travel with my ATV (because hotel room TV content is crap) and some cheaply built wallwart power adapter is the last thing I want to have to account for.  The power cable for the ATV is small, durable, standard, and easily replaced if lost.  And generally I find wallwarts to be bad form, design-wise, YMMV.

   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

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   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

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post #173 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by oneaburns View Post

Frankly, since Amazon Prime started offering free shows and movies I have stopped using my ATV as much. I have so much content available through Amazon and have their app on all three of my game consoles and my TV. I don't understand why ATV doesn't have the Amazon app while they do have it on the iphone and ipad. Sure, I can stream from there to the ATV but I don't want to always use my battery to do that.

 

Personally, I find the "free" Amazon Prime content severely lacking.  It's certainly not something I'd be willing to pay for on an ala carte basis.

 

Add the fact that their Instant Video app still(!) won't stream over LTE (or any cellular data) and I'd say it's not yet ready for prime time.  To be fair, they did finally get the Airplay video working from the app, even if you do have to stand up a hotspot to trick the app into using cellular data.

 

If Amazon's streaming service is trying to figure out who their competition is, IMO they'd be better off emulating Netflix first, before trying to clone the ATV.

   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

  MA497LL/A FB463LL/A MC572LL/A FC060LL/A MD481LL/A MD388LL/A ME344LL/A

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   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

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post #174 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post

I fail to understand why people think this is a big deal for a device that you set and forget. My Macbook pro on the other hand has an external PS which is a PITA. It would make more sense for a portable device to have a built in PS than a device that never moves.

Building that MBP PSU into the Mac would be a horrible use of space and too much added weight. I take my MBP everywhere but my PSU and cables typically stays in one place. I take it with me for trips longer than a day but it just sits in my room plugged in waiting for the MBP. Is there even a single example of a notebook with a built-in PSU? Does it also have a retractable power cord like in some vacuum cleaners?¡

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post #175 of 190
 
Originally Posted by saarek View Post
 

Unfortunately Apple with it's US Centric view ...

 

I can see non US customers dumping their ATV's very quickly once this comes out in their country, Apples support for the international market with the ATV is a poor joke. 

 

Waited years for Apple to do something about it and they just sat there....

 
Originally Posted by saarek View Post
 

It's in the UK. Although the Amazon content may not be in your country there will be the ability on this box for local content providers to get in on the action, plus the channel list is far more extensive than what is on the ATV.

 

I wanted Apple to give a shit about the ATV and the users outside of America for years, 

 

The greatest ironies about your posts and the Fire TV are:

  1. The Amazon UK website doesn't even mention the Fire TV, much less say if or when it will be available in the UK.  In contrast Amazon US have the Fire TV in stock and on sale.  Apple TV is on sale in the UK yet you say Apple is the one with the US centric view.
  2. the info about the Fire TV on Amazon's website states: 
    Regional Support Certain services may not be available outside the U.S.
post #176 of 190
post #177 of 190
Quote:

Yikes! That device is much more incomplete than I had imagined.

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post #178 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


I meant to ask you about this when you mentioned it in a earlier post. How is somebody supposed to use a iPod Touch/iPhone/iPad as a controller without looking down at it and away from the TV? A gaming controller has joysticks, buttons, and triggers that the user can feel around for without having to look down, but a iDevice has a flat surface with virtual joysticks, and buttons that the user has to actively look at in order to use effectively.

http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/160390/moga-iphone-game-controller-outed-features-external-battery-pack

 

 

Something like this could be the best of both worlds with the right programmer/developer.  Imagine playing a 1st player RPG/Shooter/Adventure/etc on the TV screen with your physical controls, but your "backpack" is your screen on the iPhone.  Instead of "pausing" and going to your backpack, you just glance down and click.  Much more realistic and doesn't stop gameflow.  I know XBox has been trying this- not sure which games or if it even works yet.

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post #179 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Yikes! That device is much more incomplete than I had imagined.

Why am I not surprised? I'd like to know what all the 'Chicken Littles' of this thread have to say now.
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post #180 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post



http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/160390/moga-iphone-game-controller-outed-features-external-battery-pack


Something like this could be the best of both worlds with the right programmer/developer.  Imagine playing a 1st player RPG/Shooter/Adventure/etc on the TV screen with your physical controls, but your "backpack" is your screen on the iPhone.  Instead of "pausing" and going to your backpack, you just glance down and click.  Much more realistic and doesn't stop gameflow.  I know XBox has been trying this- not sure which games or if it even works yet.

I don't like the idea of needing 2 devices to play one game. What if you get a phone call in a critical part of the game?
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post #181 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Yikes! That device is much more incomplete than I had imagined.

I mean this sincerely: your comment is insightful. I think there is a huge difference between what consumers expect of their devices and what companies are willing to deliver. Both are interested in value, but they have contradictory intentions. For consumers, it is value for their expenditure. For manufacturers, it is about value for their shareholders. Some companies go with the "bilking idiots" plan, and do quite well. And then (IMHO) there is AAPL. AAPL seems genuinely interested in demonstrating consumer value. Many other companies look to me like they are always trying to sell me on their stuff.

post #182 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


I don't like the idea of needing 2 devices to play one game. What if you get a phone call in a critical part of the game?

Airplane mode ;)

 

Or iPod touch.  I think the XBox version uses your iPad or a tablet if I'm not mistaken

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post #183 of 190

After just a few days, Apple TV has a much better rating on Amazon than the Fire!

post #184 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

Airplane mode 1wink.gif

Or iPod touch.  I think the XBox version uses your iPad or a tablet if I'm not mistaken

Doesn't airplane mode turn off bluetooth?
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post #185 of 190
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post
Doesn't airplane mode turn off bluetooth?

 

You can reenable it once you’re in.

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post #186 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

You can reenable it once you’re in.

Huh? Once you're in what?
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post #187 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by eightzero View Post

AAPL seems genuinely interested in demonstrating consumer value. Many other companies look to me like they are always trying to sell me on their stuff.

It's unfortunate that more companies don't try to copy Apple in this way. It's the one thing Apple can't patent or copyright and it's the one thing that continually makes people measure their products against all others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MidwestAppleFan View Post

After just a few days, Apple TV has a much better rating on Amazon than the Fire!

The Verge has a different take on FireTV giving it an 8.8 in 2014 despite the Apple TV getting only a 7.8 back in 2012. I guess that CPU and RAM are nice but what's the point if you're not a gamer or are a gamer but would rather play "PC" games, or use an Xbox of PlayStation. It seems like an oddly narrow window for making that the deciding factor. It's certainly not because the Apple TV UI feels sluggish with only 1 core and 512MB RAM.

They also praise the voice search but also note it's limited. As much as I want it to be as simple as "Play season 7 episode 19 of The Big Bang Theory" or "Play the last night's episode of Elementary" or "Play the oldest unplayed episode of The Black List" I know that may still take some time but I would have thought that if they are showcasing voice commands that on the UI it would actually work for the entire UI. I find that to be a major shortcoming that I would think would have kept Apple from releasing it as is.
Edited by SolipsismX - 4/5/14 at 8:18am

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post #188 of 190
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post
Huh? Once you're in what?

 

Once you’re in Airplane Mode, you can reenable Wi-Fi/Bluetooth.

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post #189 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Once you’re in Airplane Mode, you can reenable Wi-Fi/Bluetooth.

Ahh gotcha. I forget that one can do that.
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post #190 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff View Post
 

 

your 'potential' appears to be 'it could play games natively and be cheaper.'  I see the potential more as an extension of the apple ecosystem with a compelling 'one remote' interface (people want to veg in front of their TV)

 

Why do you think console gaming is better than 'gaming that displays on a TV.'    Apple's strategy is a personal game player, that displays on a TV.     problem solved.

 

Chromecast:  I want netflix on my dumb TV and I own an android phone and I'm cheap, for a few people (your market research redux).  Hardly a strategy for profits.  It's a gapping feature.    And I see it's gaming strategy the same.

 

fireTV:  much more impressive... as it ties into the amazon marketplace, and can run standalone.  It's not ground breaking... but it's credible and tied to a singular ecosystem.

 

 

iPhones:

 

growing the iPhone market by 10 million (you said millions... not '10's of millions) a year is less than 5% YoY growth.    I agree that larger phones are a good niche... but it's just that.  a niche.  I see the niche as the over 50yo crowd with presbyopia and/or don't want to replace their desktop with a laptop/iPad.  It's a growing niche, and should be addressed, but it's not going to compete in Asia if it's over $700 ASP, and still be the quality of an iPhone.

 

Looking at rumors is hardly a predictor of what Apple will do....

A bit late but hopefully you will see this:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2598676/Apples-iPhone-6-bigger-cheaper-declining-sales-court-documents-reveal.html

 

Read this link and tell me that >4'' phones are small. Apple will release a 4.5+'' iphone and watch sales figures climb even further, proving me right. While Apple will never follow the cheaper phone trend, a larger phone is the way go to, along with a 4'' screen. I predicted with the release of the iPhone 5 that the iPhone 6 will mark a 4.5+'' screen, whether I was wrong or not remains to be seen. But market pressure is everything. Apple competes only in the high-end market and there is still more of it to be attacked by Apple. Additionally, surveys suggest a large iphone will help in China. Just too many factors for Apple to ignore, you watch, rumors so far are on my side. Grab some popcorn. Larger iPhone this year (hopefully along side a 4'' iPhone). These are internal documents directly from Apple. They are aware of the next segment to attack, defense won't help. The room for the iPhone to grow is shrinking and Apple needs to expand to raise profits, which afterall is always their task.

 

We shall see whom is correct.

 

 

As for the AppleTV, more than just games, apps, anything more than just a netflix machine. You refer to me a "cheap", seems a bit on the offensive, as though your argument can not stand on its own. Usually the side of a losing argument. It is actually more of a: buy what I need, not what I want kind of thing. I could take the 65 bucks and put it toward something else. Everyone has a system to justify what they buy and AppleTV failed mine. My macbook pro retina and iPhone did not. To attack my system is silly and rather stupid. One thing I would like us to teach in schools again is when to buy something because its needed (I use the needed word kind of losely because no one really needs a Chromecast) and what someone just wants for no reason. Saving is a beautiful thing.

 

 

Anyway, I will be back to check on this post, for a couple of days, and in September.

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