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Nest suspends sales of Protect smoke & carbon monoxide alarm over safety concerns - Page 2

post #41 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post

You should have known that geniuses don't go around creating usernames named after dumb farm animals with a title.

Nod. I should make it about a car that I don't own so I can pretend to be a street racer.
post #42 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercow View Post
 

 

Kind of like using an aluminum band on a phone when you are explicitly told it interferes with reception.  

 

Well, if you really want to dig up that old chestnut, it was actually a stainless steel band.

FEAR GOOGLE
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FEAR GOOGLE
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post #43 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercow View Post

Nod. I should make it about a car that I don't own so I can pretend to be a street racer.

 

http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/150159/steve-jobs-wanted-to-build-icar-apple-board-member-says/40

 

Post 49

 

I've proved I'm a 'street racer' (:lol:).

 

Now you prove you're a cow.

post #44 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercow View Post
 

 

Kind of like using an aluminum band on a phone when you are explicitly told it interferes with reception.  

 

Tell us about this aluminium band.

Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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post #45 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercow View Post


Nod. I should make it about a car that I don't own so I can pretend to be a street racer.

 

Do you know Gregory Thomas Ramirez?

 

He didn't want to use his full name...

 

...doh!

Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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post #46 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercow View Post

Nod. I should make it about a car that I don't own so I can pretend to be a street racer.

Who says he's pretending?



PS: No, @Crowley, I don't actually believe @GTR turns into a car.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #47 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Who says he's pretending?

PS: No, @Crowley, I don't actually believe @GTR turns into a car.

 

Not since the operation, anyway.

 

;) 

post #48 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post
 

 

http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/150159/steve-jobs-wanted-to-build-icar-apple-board-member-says/40

 

Post 49

 

I've proved I'm a 'street racer' (:lol:).

 

Now you prove you're a cow.

 

Bit rough on the Aussie cars there, now if only I could transplant the motor from this into a Mustang when the Falcon dies.

 

 

They give those Skylines a bit of what for, too.

 

 

Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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post #49 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phone-UI-Guy View Post

What is dumb is how easy the logic would be to ensure this didn't happen. Basically any trigger must sound for a minimum time before you could allow it to be waved off. If it had not gone off, it shouldn't be suppressing the alarm at all regardless of a possible wave detection. Shouldn't let a stupid feature make it not safe.

1) I'm not sure Wave will ever be good. Perhaps a physical button -and- access via an app will be enough.

2) I think the Nest Thermostat is great but I was never sold on Nest Protect at any price because what I've been lead to believe are differences in how the effectiveness of the smoke and CO detectors decrease over time, and at different rates. If these sensors were swappable (like a carbon water filter) and the Protect would alert you when it was time (like print SW with printer cartridges) I could get behind that.

Maybe if another company does it right. I do not want google to be able to reach into my house and chancge the settings on my smoke detector. It doesnt matter to me if why they did it was right or not. They should not be able to do that.
post #50 of 66

I don't think many of you that are saying the wave feature is stupid have ever actually used the Nest Protect.  The wave feature is actually very useful, and it isn't as easy to silence the alarm as many of you seem to think.  Also, as far as I know the wave feature only works after an initial voice warning has been sounded such as "smoke detected in kids room" or "carbon monoxide detected in basement".  Its not like you can just stand below the Nest at any time and wave your arms and then the smoke detector is shut off.  Also, I believe the wave feature does not silence the alarm for good.  Once you wave to silence the alarm, the alarm's sensors still keep tracking what is going on.  If the smoke or carbon monoxide levels don't start going down it will go off again a few minutes later, and you won't be able to silence it by waving.

 

I have 2 Nest Protects in my house, one in my bedroom and one in the babies room.  We have had two instances where it has gone off and the wave feature was great.  What actually happens is the alarm doesn't sound immediately, first it gives you a verbal warning.  In our instance it came on in the middle of the night and said "smoke detected in the kids room, alarm will sound in 10 seconds", or something like that, this immediately woke my wife and I from our sleep.  I ran down the hall to our babies room and opened the door and saw the issue, the humidifier we had in the room was set too high and it had made the entire room fill with fog.  I was able to stand below the Nest protect and wave my arm back and forth and silence it before the actual alarm tone started going off.  The alarm said "alarm silenced" or something like that to let me know that it wouldn't go off.  I then walked across the room and shut off the humidifier, and kept the door open for a bit to help clear the room.  A few minutes later the Nest spoke again and said "smoke clearing" or something like that.  My baby was able to sleep through this entire ordeal without any problem.  With any other smoke detector they would have started going off and woke her up and been much more of a hassle.  The same thing happened a few weeks later with the same results.

 

Anyway the main point to my story was the actual wave feature.  It wasn't like I was able to stand below the Nest and wave my arm back and forth once and it was done.  I had to stand below it and purposely move my arm back and forth quite a few times for probably 5 or 6 seconds before it announced that it had been silenced.  It actually took quite a bit more effort than I originally thought it would for it to work.  It is still much simpler than trying to find a stepstool or a broomstick to hit the tiny reset button on other smoke detectors though.  I am actually quite suprised that they have found an issue with this.  I can't think of anything that could cause it to silence inadvertently other than maybe a dog standing below it wagging its tail?  But even if that happened I would think a person should have still heard the verbal warning before the dog silenced the alarm.

post #51 of 66
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post
A safety alarm with an off switch which can be accidentally and silently triggered.
Sounds like a winner. 1biggrin.gif

 

*Simpsons ’Silent Alarm Activated’ clip here. Because it doesn’t seem to be posted on the Internet anywhere*

 

Originally Posted by acslater017 View Post
...be aware that the original intent was to combat the "crying wolf" effect of overly annoying, hard-to-silence alarms.

 

Yeah, we know that. Here’s an idea:

 

MAKE AN ALARM THAT ISN’T SO STUPID THAT IT GOES OFF WHEN THERE ISN’T A FIRE.

 

How’s that difficult to get? This problem wouldn’t even exist.

 

Originally Posted by bulk001 View Post
Apple fired the Maps guy for refusing to apologize while many on these type if boards where trying to defend his poor work prior to Tim Cook coming out and saying that there was room for improvement with Maps.

 

Not sure Slurpy ever defended Forstall for that. But I’ll enjoy seeing his reply to this drivel.

 
Apple gave out free bumpers to those affected by "antenna gate" etc. 

 

To shut up the whiners and nothing more.

 

Originally Posted by mistercow View Post
Nod. I should make it about a car that I don't own so I can pretend to be a street racer.

 

Thanks for pretending you know what vehicles he owns.


Edited by Tallest Skil - 4/4/14 at 7:51am

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #52 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

Yeah, we know that. Here’s an idea:

 

MAKE AN ALARM THAT ISN’T SO STUPID THAT IT GOES OFF WHEN THERE ISN’T A FIRE.

 

How’s that difficult to get? This problem wouldn’t even exist.

 

Boy, why don't they do that, maybe because it is pretty much impossible.

 

To make a fire detector you usually have to rely on one or two things.  Detecting heat, or detecting smoke.

 

It is pretty dangerous to rely on a detector that looks for heat.  If the fire is in another room, inside a wall, under a floor, in the attic, etc. the heat detector can't really see it.  That means the house can completely fill up with smoke and people can die without the detector ever going off.

 

Instead most rely on detecting smoke.  It is very difficult to distinguish between smoke caused by burning something when cooking, excessive steam/fog, and smoke caused by a fire.  So they tend to go off when they see things like excessive steam or smoke caused by cooking.  This annoys people so they take the batteries out, or get rid of the detector.  The Nest was hoping to make it easy so you can go ahead and disable the alarm before it starts making that loud shrill noise, when you know that it is only going off because of smoke from cooking or steam/fog.  That way people would keep their smoke alarms up and powered rather than disabling them.  Personally I think this is a great feature and one of the reasons I ended up getting the Nest Protect (along with them being interconnected without having to be hardwired which my home doesn't have).

 

Admittedly I think they are a little overpriced and probably wouldn't have bought them on my own, but I got them as gifts and really am happy with them.

post #53 of 66
Originally Posted by Beerstalker View Post

Boy, why don't they do that, maybe because it is pretty much impossible.

 

And that’s the attitude that hasn’t seen one yet. Come on.

 
To make a fire detector you usually have to rely on one or two things.  Detecting heat, or detecting smoke.


Why not do both? Oh, hey, and a third thing. LIGHT. Fire tends to be pretty bright. Look for light of the right spectrum for fire.

 

Why not make the detector cheap? Why not make it unobtrusive? Nay, STYLISH. Make it “cool” to have one in every room of the house, then, instead of one per floor.

 

Look at that. I solved the problem. I guess I’m impossible. In before “Yes, you are.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #54 of 66
That's a pretty significant thing to miss. Makes me worry what else Nest forgot to consider in their product in their rush to make something cute and stylish and convenient? It's a smoke/fire alarm! Not a clock radio!
My suggestion... for a life-or-death emergency device/alarm, DO NOT make a convenient feature for deactivation. If you can't make the trigger an unmistakable, non-accidental, physical human action, it will fail horribly one day.
post #55 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

And that’s the attitude that hasn’t seen one yet. Come on.


Why not do both? Oh, hey, and a third thing. LIGHT. Fire tends to be pretty bright. Look for light of the right spectrum for fire.

 

Why not make the detector cheap? Why not make it unobtrusive? Nay, STYLISH. Make it “cool” to have one in every room of the house, then, instead of one per floor.

 

Look at that. I solved the problem. I guess I’m impossible. In before “Yes, you are.

 

Some do both, but they still tend to have false alarms because they still sound hte alarm if they see smoke.

 

As far as looking for light, again that doesn't work if the fire is in walls, floors, or attics.

 

The more features you add to something the more expensive it is.  Have you looked into similar detectors?  They aren't exactly cheap either.  They aren't as expensive as the Nest, but they don't offer all the same features either.  Just wifi interconnected and talking to tell you where the alarm is set.

http://www.amazon.com/First-Alert-SCO501CN-3ST-SCO500-Combination/dp/B000EVO7C2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1396629072&sr=8-2&keywords=wireless+smoke+and+carbon+monoxide+detector

 

As far as design goes, I think it looks pretty nice, but that isn't why I bought it (and looks wouldn't have kept me from buying it either) I got it for its functionality.

 

Nest recommends you follow national fire code for placement.  That is one in every bedroom, hallway, kitchen, and at least one per level I believe.  They aren't telling you to have one for every room, and it's not like it doesn't work if you only have one or two either.  Like I said I only have 2 even though I have 3 bedrooms, a hallway, and a basement, so to meet code I should technically have 6 I think.  Unless you are selling your home, or having a contractor do work you don't really need to worry about meeting code.

 

Would I like to see them drop the price to $80 or lower, of course.  I also realize this is a new product and they have to start somewhere though.

 

Finally, your post above didn't solve anything.  You can't claim to have solved anything until you actually build a working unit and have it tested/UL listed, etc.  If it were really that easy don't you think Kidde, First Alert, or one of the other big manufacturers wouldn't have made 100% accurate alarms a long time ago.  The first company to do so would make a killing.  Instead they try to limit false alarms as much as possible, while keeping costs where they want them.

post #56 of 66
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Not sure Slurpy ever defended Forstall for that. But I’ll enjoy seeing his reply to this drivel.

 

See you can't argue the facts so you revert to insults. Again. So let me give you some facts:

 

In an AppleInsider post entitled: Scott Forstall's refusal to sign iOS Maps apology letter contributed to departure, sources say

 

You, Tallest Skil, post the following about Scott's refusal to sign:

---

"AND RIGHTLY SO!

Screw that. They don't have to apologize for ANYTHING. He  [Scott Forstall] knows how good it WILL be; why would he [Scott Forstall] apologize for that? That's like Einstein's parents apologizing because their two year old was 'unruly'. Put it in context and it's not really important."

---

Source: http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/153872/scott-forstalls-refusal-to-sign-ios-maps-apology-letter-contributed-to-departure-sources-say

 

Slurpy defends Forstal's too btw:

 

On 10/29/12 Slurpy wrote:

 

"Scott Forstall??! Holy. Fucking. Shit. My heart literally skipped a beat when I read this. This better not be solely about maps. Besides Steve, Forstall has always struck me as a visionary in the company, and he's responsible for the inception and continued success of iOS. It's insane that he's being booted. I would hope that Cook did not base this on the hyper-sensationalized maps hysteria, which for many works perfectly, is one of the most ambitious and impressive software initiatives Apple has ever done, and which was a move they were forced to make for their longterm benefit and that of their users. I honestly saw Forstall as Apple's next CEO, and someone who always 'got' Apple more so than anyone else at the company (besides Ive), not to mention seeing so many characteristics in him that reminded me of Jobs and his unrelenting drive. 

 

I'd love to know why this move was made, and who's decision it was. Honestly it just seems to completely wrong, seeing the successes the guy has had and the trust that SJ gave him. If there was a 'next Steve Jobs' att he company, the only person I could point to is him. I mean, ****. This is..depressing."

 

Source: http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/153856/apple-execs-scott-forstall-and-john-browett-to-leave-company-u


Edited by bulk001 - 4/4/14 at 11:46am
post #57 of 66

double

..... the greatest fame comes from adding to human knowledge, not winning battles.
Paraphrased from Napolean Bonaparte, 1798
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..... the greatest fame comes from adding to human knowledge, not winning battles.
Paraphrased from Napolean Bonaparte, 1798
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post #58 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post
 

 

Bit rough on the Aussie cars there, now if only I could transplant the motor from this into a Mustang when the Falcon dies.

 

 

They give those Skylines a bit of what for, too.

 

 

Meh, Skylines are not bad.  I don't have any experience with the XR6.

They were really big on the Fast and the Furious series (which I did really like), however GTR, have you ever been on Triumph (Bonneville, Speed Triple whatever) screaming down the coast road?  It's the most fun you can have with your clothes on.  ;)

 

Anyway, back to the thread.  Personally I lost any and all interest in Nest after they sold out to the Goog.  I was looking at them pretty seriously too, but the privacy risk is too high now.

..... the greatest fame comes from adding to human knowledge, not winning battles.
Paraphrased from Napolean Bonaparte, 1798
Reply
..... the greatest fame comes from adding to human knowledge, not winning battles.
Paraphrased from Napolean Bonaparte, 1798
Reply
post #59 of 66
Originally Posted by Beerstalker View Post

Finally, your post above didn't solve anything.  You can't claim to have solved anything until you actually build a working unit and have it tested/UL listed, etc.

 

… Wow.

 
The first company to do so would make a killing.

 

Isn’t that phrase a faux pas?

 

Originally Posted by bulk001 View Post
See you can't argue the facts so you revert to insults.

 

Is ‘drivel’ an insult? What part of you does that insult?

 

Slurpy defends Forstal's too btw:

 

Oh, cool. Mea culpa, then. ‘Course, everyone would be out on the street if their “poor work” was as good as Apple Maps.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #60 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

… Wow.

Isn’t that phrase a faux pas?


Is ‘drivel’ an insult? What part of you does that insult?

Oh, cool. Mea culpa, then. ‘Course, everyone would be out on the street if their “poor work” was as good as Apple Maps.
Haha. Caught you with your own words and this is all you got? If you posted more thoughtful responses you would not get caught in a flat out lie.
post #61 of 66
Originally Posted by bulk001 View Post
Haha. Caught you with your own words and this is all you got? If you posted more thoughtful responses you would not get caught in a flat out lie.

 

What is any of this supposed to mean?

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #62 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

What is any of this supposed to mean?
I use too many big words? It you just don't want to understand? You try insult people and get caught in a lie of your own making.
post #63 of 66
Originally Posted by bulk001 View Post
I use too many big words? It you just don't want to understand? You try insult people and get caught in a lie of your own making.

 

Nope. It remains drivel.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #64 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

Nope. It remains drivel.

Back to that again Liar? Just can't get out of the fact that you were caught out by your own words can you?


Edited by bulk001 - 4/4/14 at 8:13pm
post #65 of 66
Originally Posted by bulk001 View Post
Back to that again Liar? Just can't get out of the fact that you were caught out by your own words can you?

 

Apple Maps wasn’t how you’ve made it out to be at launch. You’re the liar. It’s pretty simple. “Caught out”? I already apologized for my mistake. Get over it.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #66 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

Apple Maps wasn’t how you’ve made it out to be at launch. You’re the liar. It’s pretty simple. “Caught out”? I already apologized for my mistake. Get over it.

Apology accepted. 

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