or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Carriers suggest a big-screen 'iPhone 6' could be a 'very special' success in China
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Carriers suggest a big-screen 'iPhone 6' could be a 'very special' success in China

post #1 of 124
Thread Starter 
Chinese branded smartphones are performing well in their home country, affecting sales of worldwide leaders Apple and Samsung, but buzz is said to be growing in China among customers who are holding out hope for an iPhone with a larger display.

China Mobile


Analyst Brian White of Cantor Fitzgerald is currently on a "tech tour" of China, the details of which were shared in a note to investors on Friday. On the fourth day of his trip, he met with two telecom carriers in China, as well as a smartphone vendor, where sources gave him inside info on the nation's mobile market.

People who spoke with White indicated that Lenovo, Huawei, ZTE, Coolpad, and Xiaomi have all seen recent momentum in China. Their success it said to be impacting sales of Apple and Samsung handsets.

According to White, there's been a sense of "disappointment" among some Chinese carriers regarding customer demand for the iPhone 5s. However, those same people suggested that some may be holding off for a rumored "iPhone 6," which rumors have claimed will sport a larger display sized closer to 5 inches.

"In our view, the iPhone 6 with a larger screen (e.g., 4.7-inch, 5.5-inch) has the potential to meaningfully accelerate Apple's growth trajectory in China during (the second half of 2014)," White said. "We have not heard this type of excitement in China around the iPhone in at least two years and thus believe this could be a very special iPhone launch for Apple."

Earlier this year, Apple's iPhone finally debuted on the world's largest carrier, China Mobile. Apple's handset helped to drive adoption of the company's new 4G network, but China Mobile declined to reveal any actual sales figures.

However, it's likely that Chinese brands are seeing momentum in the lower-priced smartphone market, a segment where Apple does not compete. Recent data suggested that the iPhone accounts for 80 percent of the premium smartphone market in China.

The Chinese market has been an area of particular interest for Apple Chief Executive Tim Cook, who was even on hand in January to hand out the first China Mobile iPhones.
post #2 of 124

So, *if* they make a larger screen iPhone it might help achieve the success that the 5s was supposed to?

post #3 of 124
I'll be curious to know how Apple announces and markets a bigger screen iPhone. Will there be something about it that makes people go 'ah, this is why Apple waited', or will it be more of, 'what took you so long?' if it's just like every other larger phone out there. Are there real technical reasons Apple waited or was it more stubbornness and thinking the big screen phone was just a fad that wouldn't last?
post #4 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I'll be curious to know how Apple announces and markets a bigger screen iPhone. Will there be something about it that makes people go 'ah, this is why Apple waited', or will it be more of, 'what took you so long?' if it's just like every other larger phone out there. Are there real technical reasons Apple waited or was it more stubbornness and thinking the big screen phone was just a fad that wouldn't last?

First of all....besides a bunch of blog whining nonsense, and the non stop flood of Android phones of all shapes and sizes, what ACTUAL DATA or information do you have in your possession that says Apple needs to make a larger iPhone, or FURTHERMORE should have done so a year or two ago?

 

I'll be waiting.

post #5 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

First of all....besides a bunch of blog whining nonsense, and the non stop flood of Android phones of all shapes and sizes, what ACTUAL DATA or information do you have in your possession that says Apple needs to make a larger iPhone, or FURTHERMORE should have done so a year or two ago?

I'll be waiting.

There's a discussion on that other thread which shows that outside the iPhone the top end of the market is all large phones. In the US. China seems to have an even greater predeliction to large phones.
I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
Reply
I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
Reply
post #6 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I'll be curious to know how Apple announces and markets a bigger screen iPhone. Will there be something about it that makes people go 'ah, this is why Apple waited', or will it be more of, 'what took you so long?' if it's just like every other larger phone out there. Are there real technical reasons Apple waited or was it more stubbornness and thinking the big screen phone was just a fad that wouldn't last?

 

It will be the usual “Android has had that for years. Welcome to the 21st century, Apple.” Personally I am not the least bit interested in a large screen phone. If the next iPhone model comes out with a larger screen and my only option would be last year’s model with the smaller screen then I will shop around to find something that fits my hand, can be carried in my pocket and not make me look ridiculous when holding it to my ear. I haven’t jumped on the smartphone bandwagon yet and I thought this would be the year. Maybe not.

post #7 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

First of all....besides a bunch of blog whining nonsense, and the non stop flood of Android phones of all shapes and sizes, what ACTUAL DATA or information do you have in your possession that says Apple needs to make a larger iPhone, or FURTHERMORE should have done so a year or two ago?

I'll be waiting.
I don't, and I'm happy with my 5S. But all signs are pointing to a larger screen iPhone, so I'll be curious how Apple announces and markets this bigger phone. When the 5 came out and it was taller but not wider, Apple said it was so you could see more content but still comfortably use it with one hand. Ok, did Apple somehow find a way to make the phone wider but still able to comfortably use with one hand? Or does that statement no longer matter?
post #8 of 124
Analysts, shmanalysts.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #9 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

It will be the usual “Android has had that for years. Welcome to the 21st century, Apple.” Personally I am not the least bit interested in a large screen phone. If the next iPhone model comes out with a larger screen and my only option would be last year’s model with the smaller screen then I will shop around to find something that fits my hand, can be carried in my pocket and not make me look ridiculous when holding it to my ear. I haven’t jumped on the smartphone bandwagon yet and I thought this would be the year. Maybe not.
That's why I'm curious how Apple positions a larger iPhone because we know the tech and financial media meme will be that Apple is either scrambling and desperate or the leadership team is stubbornly sticking to a certain pattern (design changes every 2 years) and not able to react fast enough to the changing market,
post #10 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post
 

First of all....besides a bunch of blog whining nonsense, and the non stop flood of Android phones of all shapes and sizes, what ACTUAL DATA or information do you have in your possession that says Apple needs to make a larger iPhone, or FURTHERMORE should have done so a year or two ago?

 

I'll be waiting.

 

I think there's an article in Apple Insider somewhere about a buzz that's growing in China about demand for larger-screened iPhones.  Doesn't that constitute "information" that Apple might be able to sell more iPhones if it offers a larger model?

post #11 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post
 

First of all....besides a bunch of blog whining nonsense, and the non stop flood of Android phones of all shapes and sizes, what ACTUAL DATA or information do you have in your possession that says Apple needs to make a larger iPhone, or FURTHERMORE should have done so a year or two ago?

 

I'll be waiting.

 

I'd be more interested to hear your views on why you think that a larger iPhone won't be as much of a success as any other top tier iPhone that Apple has made.

Hmmmmmm...
Reply
Hmmmmmm...
Reply
post #12 of 124
The 5s and 5c are Apple's phablets. 3.5in screen was the perfect size.
post #13 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post


There's a discussion on that other thread which shows that outside the iPhone the top end of the market is all large phones. In the US. China seems to have an even greater predeliction to large phones.

 

That should NOT be much of a surprise since until very recently (with the Sony Z(2?) Compact) there *where* no high end Androids around 4 inches. That is actually hard to do and most Android OEM's does not go for hard. They want quick. And the blessing of the whole Android market so far has been that ironically the *only* thing seen as "innovation" the last year or two has been.....a larger screen.

post #14 of 124
Originally Posted by Frood View Post
the 5s was supposed to?

 

Further implying that it “didn’t”. 

 

Ah, analysts. Need to be imprisoned.

post #15 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


That's why I'm curious how Apple positions a larger iPhone because we know the tech and financial media meme will be that Apple is either scrambling and desperate or the leadership team is stubbornly sticking to a certain pattern (design changes every 2 years) and not able to react fast enough to the changing market,

I am pretty certain that when/if Apple brings out a larger screened iPhone the marketing blitz will be all forward looking, talking about the great strides they have made to ensure minimal fragmentation and the fact that all regular apps will work out of the box. The main focus will not necessarily be on the fact that the screen is larger but instead more granularly on other specific advances made, perhaps directly linked to a larger screen size. There will always be critics and Apple has never really responded to them directly. Why would they?

post #16 of 124
How does he know the people aren't buying the domestic cellphones because they're domestic? Even if they have larger screens, maybe that's not the reason people are buying them, maybe they're just being patriotic.
post #17 of 124
I wonder how long this weird disconnect between display size and device size will last. As Just_Me's post (above) clearly shows he think the ideal size window is in relation to the display, and not the device itself. As we saw when Apple moved to the iPhone 5, despite the 4" display the device is a lower total volume and weights considerably less. This makes the older devices with 3.5" displays larger by comparison.

The only dimension the iPhone 5/5S is bigger is on the height, but since it still slides into a pocket with ease because they didn't make it extra thick or wide, which is something they would have had to do if they had attempted to make a device with a larger display before the technology allowed it.

I'm skeptical Apple can pull off another leap as well as it did from moving from the 4S to the 5 but I think the technology might finally allow them to minimize device bulk which could lead to volume and weight that is still inline with an earlier iPhone despite having a larger display.

This bot has been removed from circulation due to a malfunctioning morality chip.

Reply

This bot has been removed from circulation due to a malfunctioning morality chip.

Reply
post #18 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_Me View Post

The 5s and 5c are Apple's phablets. 3.5in screen was the perfect size.

Your handle says it all

“What would I do? I’d shut Apple down and give the money back to the shareholders”

Michael Dell - 1997

Reply

“What would I do? I’d shut Apple down and give the money back to the shareholders”

Michael Dell - 1997

Reply
post #19 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I'm skeptical Apple can pull off another leap as well as it did from moving from the 4S to the 5 but I think the technology might finally allow them to minimize device bulk which could lead to volume and weight that is still inline with an earlier iPhone despite having a larger display.

I agree it would be hard to be so smooth again. But would they consider making the iPod Touch bigger but not the iPhone? It solves the problem of holding something big up to your face, since it doesn't take calls.

post #20 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

I am pretty certain that when/if Apple brings out a larger screened iPhone the marketing blitz will be all forward looking, talking about the great strides they have made to ensure minimal fragmentation and the fact that all regular apps will work out of the box. The main focus will not necessarily be on the fact that the screen is larger but instead more granularly on other specific advances made, perhaps directly linked to a larger screen size. There will always be critics and Apple has never really responded to them directly. Why would they?
I'm not suggesting Apple respond directly to critics. I'm wondering, when Phil Schiller gets up on stage and announces the iPhone 6, how he does it. When the iPad mini came out he spent most of his time showing off web pages and how you can see more content on the mini than on 7" 16:9 devices. What's he going to do with a bigger iPhone?

Anyway these "analysts" always come out with noise based on their "checks" in Asia, but how often are they right? Business Insider is all over this story yet Google, Amazon and Microsoft are all down more than Apple today and one firm just raised their price target. Seems Mr. White's "checks" don't matter much to Wall Street.
post #21 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


I don't, and I'm happy with my 5S. But all signs are pointing to a larger screen iPhone, so I'll be curious how Apple announces and markets this bigger phone. When the 5 came out and it was taller but not wider, Apple said it was so you could see more content but still comfortably use it with one hand. Ok, did Apple somehow find a way to make the phone wider but still able to comfortably use with one hand? Or does that statement no longer matter?

It's simple. The market wants a larger screen so Apple will likely be obliging. I think they need to keep the current size of 4" as an option though. Lots of people don't want more width. Based on all the rumours and speculation, a 4", 4.7" and a 5.5" will be available at the end of this year. That way Apple can cover everyone's needs.

“What would I do? I’d shut Apple down and give the money back to the shareholders”

Michael Dell - 1997

Reply

“What would I do? I’d shut Apple down and give the money back to the shareholders”

Michael Dell - 1997

Reply
post #22 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

I am pretty certain that when/if Apple brings out a larger screened iPhone the marketing blitz will be all forward looking, talking about the great strides they have made to ensure minimal fragmentation and the fact that all regular apps will work out of the box. The main focus will not necessarily be on the fact that the screen is larger but instead more granularly on other specific advances made, perhaps directly linked to a larger screen size. There will always be critics and Apple has never really responded to them directly. Why would they?

Exactly. Apple will tout a bigger iPhone (<5") will have better battery life, better tech, etc.
post #23 of 124
It's funny; when mobile phones first came on the market, everyone tried to make them smaller and smaller and smaller. Now, since the iPhone everyone wants them bigger and bigger and bigger.
post #24 of 124
For Japan, we can only hope Apple keeps alive the iPhone 5s. Anything larger may bomb among half the public. A Japanese friend had a cell phone so small, I jokingly told her that it looked like a "Barbie doll phone." She liked it that way.

I wouldn't mind a slightly larger screen, but for many the iPhone is already almost too large.
post #25 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

I agree it would be hard to be so smooth again. But would they consider making the iPod Touch bigger but not the iPhone? It solves the problem of holding something big up to your face, since it doesn't take calls.

I don't think they'd just do the iPod Touch. They put very little R&D into their iPod line so i don't see them using a larger display just for it. On top of that, I really don't want to see that because it would then mean a larger display with the same pixels as the current iPod Touch. I'm hoping Apple goes all-in with a higher resolution which means a lot of back end updates to their OS and SDK for developer support. I wonder about the PPI for the display, too.

They might have to start all that scratch because of all the needed changes for going to a larger display on the same aspect ratio which means they could be considering a higher PPI simply because that part is now convenient and the HW can take it. I'm hoping and betting against 264 PPI at 4.94" that will allow them to do nothing with the OS or SDK. But they don't have to use the iPad Air's display.

They could go with, say, 4.5" display without changing anything else and that would be 290 PPI which is still Retina for nearly all the population. At 4.5" that would be a device that is 8.66 in sq (55.87 cm sq) compared to the 4" version at 6.84 in sq (44.14 cm sq) for the 4" version. To me that seems like a decent bump in size with little effort, especially if are working on a more complete, future-foward system which could still take a couple years to get right. And at 4.5" they may be able to keep the size and weight inline with the iPhone 5S if they can reduce the bezel, header and footer.
Edited by SolipsismX - 4/4/14 at 7:56am

This bot has been removed from circulation due to a malfunctioning morality chip.

Reply

This bot has been removed from circulation due to a malfunctioning morality chip.

Reply
post #26 of 124
The critics also said Apple should spin-off the Mac and license MacOS to clone makers because that formula worked so well for Microsoft and Windows 98 was on top of the goddamned world just do what Microsoft did and you'll be rich.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply
post #27 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by dorkus maximus View Post

It's funny; when mobile phones first came on the market, everyone tried to make them smaller and smaller and smaller. Now, since the iPhone everyone wants them bigger and bigger and bigger.

Most people didn't spend hours staring at the display of their Motorola Razr which is why smaller was a good thing back then.  People now spend a lot of time staring at the screen on smartphones which is why bigger is a good thing now. 

post #28 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


I don't think they'd just do the iPod Touch. They put very little R&D into their iPod line so i don't see them using a larger display just for it. On top of that, I really don't want to see that because it would then mean a larger display with the same pixels as the current iPod Touch. I'm hoping Apple goes all-in with a higher resolution which means a lot of back end updates to their OS and SDK for developer support. I wonder about the PPI for the display, too.

They might have to start all that scratch because of all the needed changes for going to a larger display on the same aspect ration which means they could be considering a higher PPI simply because that part is now convenient and the HW can take it. I'm hoping and betting against 264 PPI at 4.94" that will allow them to do nothing with the OS or SDK. But they don't have to use the iPad Air's display.

They could go with, say, 4.5" display without changing anything else and that would be 290 PPI which is still Retina for nearly all the population. At 4.5" that would be a device that is 8.66 in sq (55.87 cm sq) compared to the 4" version at 6.84 in sq (44.14 cm sq) for the 4" version. To me that seems like a decent bump in size with little effort, especially if are working on a more complete, future-foward system which could still take a couple years to get right. And at 4.5" they may be able to keep the size and weight inline with the iPhone 5S if they can reduce the bezel, header and footer.

That is a well thought out argument. And I agree with the bezel comment, because they really like one-handed operation, and 4" is pretty much the limit for that, so if they are going to go to 4.5" they must be going to reduce the bezel at the same time to allow the thumb to reach further.

post #29 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by GadgetCanadaV2 View Post

It's simple. The market wants a larger screen so Apple will likely be obliging. I think they need to keep the current size of 4" as an option though. Lots of people don't want more width. Based on all the rumours and speculation, a 4", 4.7" and a 5.5" will be available at the end of this year. That way Apple can cover everyone's needs.
Well if it's that simple, why are we getting it in 2014 and not 2012 or 2013? Unless Apple leadership thought the large screen phones were a fad that would die out?
post #30 of 124

If the iPhone 6 in addition to including a larger display improves upon battery life to a noticeable degree, includes an A8 and doubles storage to 32/64/128 it will be touted as the most revolutionary iPhone since the very first one. Pretty much all of that is likely with the exception of more storage. I haven't heard any rumors concerning whether they will stick with 16/32/64 or double that. Now that Android phones are beginning to offer  64GB and also allow an additional 128GB for a total of 192GB that makes 64GB maximum on the iPhone far less impressive than several years ago. A bigger display and doubling the storage might be a bit too much to hope for in one release but that would be fantastic. 

post #31 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by GadgetCanadaV2 View Post
 

It's simple. The market wants a larger screen so Apple will likely be obliging. I think they need to keep the current size of 4" as an option though. Lots of people don't want more width. Based on all the rumours and speculation, a 4", 4.7" and a 5.5" will be available at the end of this year. That way Apple can cover everyone's needs.

Agreed.  Apple did the same with the iPod, and the iPad.

 

I don't know if there will be 2 new phones however.  however, I'll wait until iOS8 is discussed at WWDC as to the methods for dynamically scaling apps across multiple screen resolutions and geometries.

post #32 of 124
the method for entering Chinese, Korean or Japanese characters is different than with roman characters. when you change the keyboard to using Chinese, Korean or Japanese, half of the screen on a pre-iphone 5 is taken up by the input area, so it seems to make sense that the Chinese, Korean and the Japanese desire a larger screen.
Edited by danielchow - 4/4/14 at 8:15am
post #33 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by dorkus maximus View Post

It's funny; when mobile phones first came on the market, everyone tried to make them smaller and smaller and smaller. Now, since the iPhone everyone wants them bigger and bigger and bigger.

 

Add enough features to your brick and people will buy it and carry it around in a shoulder-bag.

post #34 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post
 

If the iPhone 6 in addition to including a larger display improves upon battery life to a noticeable degree, includes an A8 and doubles storage to 32/64/128 it will be touted as the most revolutionary iPhone since the very first one. Pretty much all of that is likely with the exception of more storage. I haven't heard any rumors concerning whether they will stick with 16/32/64 or double that. Now that Android phones are beginning to offer  64GB and also allow an additional 128GB for a total of 192GB that makes 64GB maximum on the iPhone far less impressive than several years ago. A bigger display and doubling the storage might be a bit too much to hope for in one release but that would be fantastic. 

"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against Apple when you think Specs are on the line!"

 

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha.... <dead>.

 

Specs aren't where apple fights it's wars... performance on the job is the critical measure.

 

doubling storage goes against apple ecosystem model, esp. on the phone.  

 

Same reason why apple doesn't build a phablet.   

post #35 of 124
Surely storage is due for an update. Space on the larger screened device will be less limited internally.
I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
Reply
I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
Reply
post #36 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


Well if it's that simple, why are we getting it in 2014 and not 2012 or 2013? Unless Apple leadership thought the large screen phones were a fad that would die out?

You were right in an earlier post. Apple works in 2 year cycles. At least they have since the iPhone 3. Unless the iPhone 6 introduces some radical new display technology never before seen on any other device, that will prove the technology was available earlier. Was it available in large enough quantity last year? Who knows..

 

Apple touted one handed use as as a paradigm that no longer seems very important to most people or indeed app developers. Take a look at most of the top paid or free apps. The majority work either far better in landscape and many do not even offer portrait as an option at all. The number of people using the current iPhone in landscape suggest one handed is no longer king. The first iPhone was a phone that also had a few cool apps. The current iPhone is a computer that also offer phone calls as a much less used feature. Once that shift happened one handed use was much less important. Smartphones are now much more about 2 thumbs than one hand. 

 

But just because Apple was late to the party doesn't mean they won't make an awesome big display iPhone. The criticism will last about as long as the jokes about the name "iPad" lasted many years ago which is to say not long at all. Apple doesn't need to explain or justify it at all since people will be too busy throwing money at them. There is a lot you can copy from other phones but display size isn't one of them. 

post #37 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by dorkus maximus View Post

It's funny; when mobile phones first came on the market, everyone tried to make them smaller and smaller and smaller. Now, since the iPhone everyone wants them bigger and bigger and bigger.

We also used to make fun of those older brick-sized Motorola StarTAC phones as clunky and dated, but big is coming back with a goddamned vengeance, and you will like it goddamnit.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply
post #38 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff View Post
 

Specs aren't where apple fights it's wars... performance on the job is the critical measure.

 

doubling storage goes against apple ecosystem model, esp. on the phone.  

 

Same reason why apple doesn't build a phablet.   

 

That still hasn't stopped Apple from modifying its specs... upward.

Hmmmmmm...
Reply
Hmmmmmm...
Reply
post #39 of 124
It would be funny if Apple actually announced a smaller screen on their next iPhone.
post #40 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeaEarleGreyHot View Post
 

 

Add enough features to your brick and people will buy it and carry it around in a shoulder-bag.

exactly.     

 

What was the USAF description of the F-4:  "the F-4 was an engineer's proof that if you add enough thrust, even a brick can fly"

 

Let's see what hasn't been added

-hdmi port

-usb port

-java

-flash

-Ogg Vorbis

-removable battery

-sdram

-NFC

-a physical keyboard... or any buttons other than the home button and the power button

- a 6" screen

- a compiler on the phone

- a pony

 

If you need to carry 128gb of stuff... and have a huge screen or HDMI out, get a MBA (and the adaptor;-)).

 

If  you need to have a portable phone that keeps you always connected to your musics, your video, and the cloud... get an iPhone.

 

If you need something in between, get an iPad Mini with LTE and Skype (or like me a MBA and a iPhone and tether)

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPhone
  • Carriers suggest a big-screen 'iPhone 6' could be a 'very special' success in China
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Carriers suggest a big-screen 'iPhone 6' could be a 'very special' success in China