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Apple's Schiller was 'shocked' at ad agency's suggestions for branding turnaround, documents show - Page 2

post #41 of 76
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Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post
 
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Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Oh my god... the grammar.

:/

Couldn't agree more. Sounds like breathless Valley-speak from a poorly-educated teenager.

I sincerely believe that the senior management, starting with CEO, of the most valuable company in the world -- from an English-speaking country -- needs to learn to articulate their thoughts in a more precise, a more grammatical, better punctuated fashion.

Get some speech/English coaches, guys. This is embarrassing. SJ would never put up with such crap.

doubt there is much issue parsing through the grammar for most people. However,  "breathless Valley-speak"  we could do without.   His response could have been 1/10 as long and more to the point without all the dancing. 

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post #42 of 76
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Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


The ad agency -- which apparently has an aversion to capital letters --
 

 

Ah! The little gems that make AI such a pleasure to read!

post #43 of 76

2 things of that have been revealing during this trial that are of note to me:

 

1. Apple acknowledges the need for bigger and cheaper phones.

2. Apple knows Samsung's media blitz does generate some negativity towards Apple.

 

It really makes me happy to see this because it proves that:

 

1. Apple is not blind to changing trends.

2. Apple is looking at target demographics that we usually think it isn't worried about.

3. Apple strives hard to project itself as the best.

4. Apple has pride in itself and dislikes people (and ads) making fun of it, its products, or its customers.

5. Behind that magic curtain is a bunch of actual humans with fears and emotions that come out with the products that I love so much.

post #44 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by BestKeptSecret View Post
 

2 things of that have been revealing during this trial that are of note to me:

 

1. Apple acknowledges the need for bigger and cheaper phones.

2. Apple knows Samsung's media blitz does generate some negativity towards Apple.

 

It really makes me happy to see this because it proves that:

 

1. Apple is not blind to changing trends.

2. Apple is looking at target demographics that we usually think it isn't worried about.

3. Apple strives hard to project itself as the best.

4. Apple has pride in itself and dislikes people (and ads) making fun of it, its products, or its customers.

5. Behind that magic curtain is a bunch of actual humans with fears and emotions that come out with the products that I love so much.

 

It seems only the AI Apple fans are blind to changing trends.
How many times haven't they posted that bigger size is wrong, that cheaper is wrong, that Apple has the best ads, ...

post #45 of 76
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Originally Posted by Blitz1 View Post

How many times haven't they posted that bigger size is wrong, that cheaper is wrong, that Apple has the best ads, ...

How many times have they not posted something? 1confused.gif

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post #46 of 76
I have to say that this shows that despite jobs not being there that there is still a hardball attitude in Apple to things not being done right. If anything it gives me more confidence that they are taking the bull by the horns and dealing with issues.
I do find it strange that these docs seem to find their way out into the public domain and that such a big deal is made of them.
post #47 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitz1 View Post
 

It seems only the AI Apple fan boys are blind to changing trends.
How many times haven't they posted that bigger size is wrong, that cheaper is wrong, that Apple has the best ads, ...

Don't forget "you don't get it" and "you don't understand how Apple works".

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post #48 of 76
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Originally Posted by MJ Web View Post

Great Apple advertising? Haven't seen a great Apple ad since Apple became a predictable boring company. That'd be since Tim Cook took the reigns. In 2014 Apple hasn't done a f-ing thing -- just like in 2011 -2013! Shiller is wrong, the the Mad boys are right. But why listen to the very people you pay to be experts? Apple needs to get off its self righteous ass and do anything remotely surprising, original, or creative. AAPL is a featherless peacock under Tim Cook!

 

 


Edited by piot - 4/8/14 at 2:33am
post #49 of 76
Schiller shouldn't believe everything he reads. This memo betrayed his insecurity.
post #50 of 76
These releases of erstwhile confidential communiques would possibly make me, were I an Apple employee, think twice about what I write.
post #51 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

Lobbying power, you ask? Yes, the large advertising companies own the best lobbyist in DC... They pay their rent and provide their furniture. In turn they get access to the very highest political offices. If TBWA had been doing their job, Apple wouldn't have went out and hired a lobbyist of their own, as they did recently.

The recent hire you mention, Washington insider Amber Cottle, is a replacement for their previous chief lobbyist Catherine Ann Novellim who had left for a job with the State Department after serving with Apple since 2007. Having a lobbyist isn't anything new for Apple. By the way they don't call them a lobbyist. The position is VP of Worldwide Government Affairs. Fancy huh?
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post #52 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post

IMO Apple could use a good dose of light-hearted humor at this point in time... even if they decided to laugh at themselves a little. Something that could take the steam and punch out of the serious obnoxiousness and digs that Samsung and others like to use to paint a picture of Apple.

Self-effusing humor could work wonders towards pulling back the view of the mega serious computer beheamoth that Apple has become, and bring it back down "touchable" size... 1smoking.gif
I'd love if this WWDC Apple would open with a parody of the product video intros they do. Maybe pull together funny out takes or something. Last year was great because they did make fun of themselves a few times. And these product videos have essentially become parodies of themselves, so I think it would be a gold way for Apple to show it doesn't take itself too seriously.
post #53 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by BestKeptSecret View Post

2 things of that have been revealing during this trial that are of note to me:

1. Apple acknowledges the need for bigger and cheaper phones.
2. Apple knows Samsung's media blitz does generate some negativity towards Apple.

It really makes me happy to see this because it proves that:

1. Apple is not blind to changing trends.
2. Apple is looking at target demographics that we usually think it isn't worried about.
3. Apple strives hard to project itself as the best.
4. Apple has pride in itself and dislikes people (and ads) making fun of it, its products, or its customers.
5. Behind that magic curtain is a bunch of actual humans with fears and emotions that come out with the products that I love so much.
Regarding the first #1, that slide deck was produced by someone in sales and Phil Schiller said on the stand that he didn't agree with much of it and it wasn't official Apple policy/viewpoint. An Apple sales employee does not equal Apple the company and certainly isn't driving Apple policy.
post #54 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by pembroke View Post

These releases of erstwhile confidential communiques would possibly make me, were I an Apple employee, think twice about what I write.
I hope Steve's "holy war" with Google is worth it in the end.
post #55 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post


1) who cares what Samsung said?

2) the article stated that the size would likely be 55" panels at around 10,000/month... about right for a roll out into this space for Apple.

3) did you happen to notice the thinness? Which happens to back up my statement a couple of days ago of "... not much more than a few millimeters of glass or other material" with not much more that a couple of connectors and a wifi chip.

4) no speakers for you to bitch about their quality... including those that you obsessed about in the new iMacs. I'm thinking synchronized wifi-bridged 5.1 surround sound or 3d sound bars/boxes ala Sonos for the future... or even BT speakers for "simple and inexpensive" purposes.

5) never forget, Apple hates wires and cords... unless they're going to an ugly break-out box or device that can (and should be) shoved in a closet or be hidden somewhere out of sight.

6) Also Apple hates sharing "shelf space" or their logo with anything else in view. I wouldn't be at all surprised if a new AppleTV wouldn't be much thicker than an iPhone, maybe 1.5x15x15cm and there be a slot dock on the back of a panel like the one in the article to essentially "hide it" as well.

Carry on worrying and complaining about today's tech challenges and shortcomings... and I'll continue dreaming and envisioning about what the future may hold.... 1smoking.gif

 

Well, if they launch a 65" display initially into the market as a very high-end product and intend to bring out a more reasonably sized model in due course as companies like LG ramp then 65" may perhaps make sense. And yes, I am gonna "bitch" about the product if the speakers are not built in. An Apple television product where you have to add-on speakers out of the box? Wireless speakers as standard? Have you lost your mind? And yes, the iMac speakers now suck big time, too right I'm gonna mention that. The iMacs whole selling point for me was its all-in-oneness. Adding on speakers fucks that up! But the worst part about the late 2013 model iMac with regard its speakers is the previous models sounded great. Form over function if I've ever seen it.

 

In a way the iMac is probably the perfect case that they will build unremovable speakers into iTV. If they do it for their main desktop computer they'll certainly do it for their TV. I just hope to God when it comes to the TV experience that they do consider audio quality as an important factor. I want Apple to save us from the dreaded situation we have now which is buy a TV and suffer shit speakers or having to buy another product to fix the sound problem, while often adding one more plug and one more remote control to the mix. It's bad out there.

 

Quote:
 Buy a soundbar.

 

**** off.

 

The whole thing is kind of an embarrassing case for TVs.


Edited by Ireland - 4/8/14 at 5:56am
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post #56 of 76
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Originally Posted by hmm View Post

Schiller seems overly sensitive and weird here. What you describe isn't a problem with ad agencies. A company can be explicit in the message they want to send. In the case of the ad agency executive, he referred to narratives. They're just an issue of what kind of message is conveyed. If they're so far apart on message that seems more like a meeting topic than one to be discussed via email.

Look at the email portion with the first suggestion, where the ad guy says:

"advertising can absolutely help to begin to change this chilling negative narrative to a more positive one, particularly if they are seen as part of a broader effort within the company"

- company behavior - how should we behave? (lawsuits, china/usa workers, too rich, giveback)
- product roadmap - whats our next innovation? (bigger screens, new look software, maps, product cycles)
- advertising - changing the conversation? (iPhone 5 difference, competitive depositioning, apple brand slipping)
- sales approach - new tactics? (carriers, in-store, spiffs, retail approach)

Then he calls for an emergency meeting to "help pull Apple through".

He may have been describing narratives but he was also validating them by suggesting they needed a response and that portion as a whole was way out of line. Schiller's response was totally appropriate:

"to come back and suggest that Apple needs to think dramatically different about how we are running our company is a shocking response."

The ad guy's suggestions are in brackets where he's saying 'innovate don't litigate', spend more cash, sort out working conditions in factories, suggesting that big screens, maps etc qualify as big innovations for Apple, competitive depositioning - basically doing what Samsung does by trying to badmouth the competition, spiffs - sales bonuses to retailers for pushing the iPhone, again what the likes of Samsung does.

That one section instantly showed that the ad agency representing them didn't have a clue what they're about and that is shocking from a company that has helped define a lot of their best marketing.

Sometimes people go off on tangents so a single email isn't grounds for ditching a whole agency but Schiller was right to call them out on it and if it turned out to be representative of the whole agency's feelings towards Apple then that is cause for concern.
post #57 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I'd love if this WWDC Apple would open with a parody of the product video intros they do. Maybe pull together funny out takes or something. Last year was great because they did make fun of themselves a few times. And these product videos have essentially become parodies of themselves, so I think it would be a gold way for Apple to show it doesn't take itself too seriously.

I know what you're getting at... although "taking themselves too seriously" can't and shouldn't be said about their work and endeavors behind the scenes and I don't think they should stop that trait.

Take the ad "Your Verse" as an example of what I see needs to be lightened up. I thoroughly enjoy it and we as Apple fans "get this" bow to the cultural arts, since Apple devices have been traditionally used by creative pros everywhere for decades. However, with the implied statement, "we are cultured and you can be too if...", you cause a whole slew of potential fans to simply gag on the whole idea, and many will vociferously push back if you try to force these ideals onto them. Not everyone wants.. or can be a hero to the world or even for themselves for that matter.

The word I was looking for in my original post was "approachable". Humor of the self-effacing kind helps to do just that, and to break the icy "I've got it... and you'll be lucky if you ever do" type of stress that an ad like Your Verse can cause... for some people.

Just like a glamorous model or actress*** that has a great smile and elegant poise, she also needs to be aware that it is she that needs to be outgoing and break the ice if she's ever going to be asked out for a date. Best way to do that is poke fun at yourself, even if it's facetious and "unbelievable"... insecurity is being "human". Apple showing this side of themselves... even at this inopportune time and way... makes them "human and approachable", as a few folks have already commented in this thread.

*** The analogy comes from first hand experience with a number of models and actresses in my younger years. You'd be surprised how lonely many are, and just how scared a lot of the machos are to approach them. I developed my gift-of-gab, fearlessness and a sense of humor early on, because my mom said I was otherwise a rather homely sod... which I thank her dearly for being so brutally honest(!) How else would I've developed "other means" to enjoy a few arm trophies in my day?!... 1smoking.gif
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post #58 of 76

So Apple high paid Brand and Ad company solution was to start marketing the future idea Apple was working on.  They knew no other way other than to undo what Steve put in place which is never let your competitor know what you are doing until it is too late. Even that did not work well when you have a company like Samsung who has no issue with turning on the copy machine and cranking out a competing product in a few months. This company wanted to make Samsung and Google job even easier. What a bunch of idiot, Apple need to fire this company and find some new and fresh mind to work on Brand and Ad campaigns for them.

post #59 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Well, if they launch a 65" display initially into the market as a very high-end product and intend to bring out a more reasonably sized model in due course as companies like LG ramp then 65" may perhaps make sense. And yes, I am gonna "bitch" about the product if the speakers are not built in. An Apple television product where you have to add-on speakers out of the box? Wireless speakers as standard? Have you lost your mind? And yes, the iMac speakers now suck big time, too right I'm gonna mention that. The iMacs whole selling point for me was its all-in-oneness. Adding on speakers fucks that up! But the worst part about the late 2013 model iMac with regard its speakers is the previous models sounded great. Form over function if I've ever seen it.

In a way the iMac is probably the perfect case that they will build unremovable speakers into iTV. If they do it for their main desktop computer they'll certainly do it for their TV. I just hope to God when it comes to the TV experience that they do consider audio quality as an important factor. I want Apple to save us from the dreaded situation we have now which is buy a TV and suffer shit speakers or having to buy another product to fix the sound problem, while often adding one more plug and one more remote control to the mix. It's bad out there.


**** off.

The whole thing is kind of an embarrassing case for TVs.

I hate to tell ya... but you're going to be seriously disappointed with anything Apple or anyone puts in that small glass panel, which will more than likely be behind it.

I'm not an audio engineer, but I believe I know enough to say that any speaker will be starved for air to output anything than the weakest of sound waves. And I doubt they'll add a "sound chin"... which also would be starved for air and space to push a serious bass or midtone.

Re: wireless speakers -- no I have not lost my mind or my hearing yet, and I thoroughly love my Sonos boxes, as does everyone else where we have installed them.

Re: iMac speakers -- sorry, but AFAIC they've always been a "last resort" just as those on the MacPros. I'm still blown away by the small speakers and big sound inside MBP's, and my 17" MBP of old blew away most internal speakers on any PC or Mac. But that's not really saying much if you're a sound hound as you claim to be. The iMac speakers (both old and new models) work just fine in office/studio settings and gloriously well if you tether them to a Teufel system for everything else (tooting the horn there 1smile.gif )

Re: aTV vs. iMac built-in speakers -- not the same general usage, so they don't compare. I wouldn't expect Apple to make the mistake of pairing a visually stunning picture, with a tin-can sound system and then being audacious enough to call it the "living-room entertainment center you've all been waiting for".
Quote:
I just hope to God when it comes to the TV experience that they do consider audio quality as an important factor.

Absolutely agree... and that's why the sound system will be external.

Apple needs to rip the TV apart, breaking it down as they so often have in the past with other devices, and throw away what is not needed going forward and what doesn't provide the ultimate experience. In fact... it very well may not even be called a TV anymore after Apple is done stripping it down to it's essence.

1) View Port = a "moving picture" that is so glorious you think you're looking out of a window at live action, and you can get close or far enough away at your desire and you will not see a pixel.

2) Brains = in a box that will control everything that plugs into it, and control everything that makes it's way to "the picture panel".

3) Controller = possibly a cheap additional "remote", but more likely it will be assumed that you will have an iDevice and Apps that will segue into the "Brains" intuitively and/or with a little help from Siri.

4) Sound = satellite boxes sold separately or in partnership with any number of "sound engineering professional" manufacturers... or with what you already own.

5) Content = controlled and queued up from anywhere, any device, any app, and any "thing" plugged into the Brains.

NOTE 1 = from the linked article if it was TL;DR for ya, pointing to a long wait for 65" aka too long for Apple to get their feet wet and assuage the naysayers. I'm afraid TC wouldn't last that long:

LGD's upcoming M2 Gen-8 fab (which is scheduled to start producing panels towards the end of 2014) will have a capacity of 26,000 substrates - or about 150,000 55" OLED panels per month. LGD's yield is still very low, so even if they committed all of their capacity for Apple (which is not very likely) they will only be able to produce a few tens of thousands of TV panels per month.


NOTE 2 = this from Quartz pointing out my theory, but claiming it to be impossible in the near future. If anyone can do it though... Apple can.

Apple, Google, and Amazon’s quest for one remote control is futile – Quartz
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post #60 of 76
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Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Well, if they launch a 65" display initially into the market as a very high-end product and intend to bring out a more reasonably sized model in due course as companies like LG ramp then 65" may perhaps make sense.

According to a document Comcast filed with the FTC it's not a TV that Apple is working on but instead a new set-top box.
http://corporate.comcast.com/comcast-voices/comcast-and-time-warner-cable-file-applications-and-public-interest-statement-with-fcc
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post #61 of 76
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Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

According to a document Comcast filed with the FTC it's not a TV that Apple is working on but instead a new set-top box.
http://corporate.comcast.com/comcast-voices/comcast-and-time-warner-cable-file-applications-and-public-interest-statement-with-fcc

 

Well we already knew they were working on a new box. At least it was common sense. We're speculating on an additional TV product. Even with a TV they would keep the Apple TV box around. That much is obvious.

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post #62 of 76
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Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post
 

What a bunch of idiot, Apple need to fire this company and find some new and fresh mind to work on Brand and Ad campaigns for them.

 

I disagree. This company has proven itself very clever in the past, and given the recent ads they appear to be still clever. That was one person at said company throwing it out there. If anything, the fact that Schiller saw the situation totally different to them is a healthy thing. Otherwise Apple simply do its own marketing.

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post #63 of 76

This is one of the worst ads ever shot! I won numerous Cleos so I have an inkling. What was Apple's directive to the agency? Target non white immigrants and 1 Percenters who can't afford the 5S and make the 5S owners feel superior to them? That's how the ad plays and lots of people besides me consider this spot to be ignorant, ill advised, and racist. Not to mention that the 5C is Apple's worst new product in decades.

 

 


Edited by MJ Web - 4/8/14 at 10:00am
post #64 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post

I hate to tell ya... but you're going to be seriously disappointed with anything Apple or anyone puts in that small glass panel, which will more than likely be behind it.

 

Perhaps, but we'll have to wait and see.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post

I'm not an audio engineer, but I believe I know enough to say that any speaker will be starved for air to output anything than the weakest of sound waves. And I doubt they'll add a "sound chin"... which also would be starved for air and space to push a serious bass or mid-tone.
 

If my 8-year old Pioneer TV with its sound-chin can have awesome sound and still manage to look elegant I don't see how Apple can't improve upon that. Is my current TV well designed? Yes, it looks beautiful. Does it sound very good for a TV with no additional speakers? Yes. Could Apple do better if they were focused to achieve attractive looks and great sound quality in equal measure? Yes.

 

When watching a good TV show or good movie sound is absolutely crucial. Having to add on products to achieve the desired affect is bad design. Think about it, what is crucial needs to be added to said product after unboxing? That makes no sense in an Apple's world.

 

Why do people suggest adding on a soundbar? Because they have no idea what they are talking about. They are enthusiast. They're not regular people. Regular people should never be calling Apple to ask them which sound-bar they should add on. Apple should sell them a finished product where everything they need is built in.

 

The ideal Apple television will be one that has an App Store, a bundled bluetooth remote with Siri, very nicely designed optional hardware games controllers, exquisite hardware set design, 802.11n, movies for rent at a good price, an iTunes TV subscription service, calibrated colour reproduction, Kuro-level blacks, top-quality motion performance, and also crucially, great sound quality. If Apple can't do all that with their TV then perhaps they shouldn't bother trying. Their focus according to themselves is to make the best products in the world, to do so they need to do all that. Although, given just how tricky it's going to be for them to get content owners to ink that iTunes TV deal, maybe they should just unleash this product at full price alongside their regular Apple TV product and continue to work on ways to add that iTunes TV 2-year contract. If there ever came a day where they did ink a descent iTunes TV deal then they could simply continue to offer iTV on their website at full price without a contract, but also now subsided with a 2-year contract. Just like the way they offer iPhones at full price on Apple.com alongside subsidised units. The only difference in this case being that they'd be fulfilling the entire deal. The whole banana.

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post #65 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ Web View Post
 

This is one of the worst ads ever shot! I won numerous Cleos so I have an inkling. What was Apple's directive to the agency? Target non white immigrants and 1 Percenters who can't afford the 5S and make the 5S owners feel superior to them? That's how the ad plays and lots of people besides me consider this spot to be ignorant, ill advised, and racist. Not to mention that the 5C is Apple's stupidest product in decades.

 

 

 

Foreign accents are racist now? Colourful here meant variety, not skin tone. Besides, when you include every colour human who are you being racist towards?

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post #66 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post
 

 

I disagree. This company has proven itself very clever in the past, and given the recent ads they appear to be still clever. That was one person at said company throwing it out there. If anything, the fact that Schiller saw the situation totally different to them is a healthy thing. Otherwise Apple simply do its own marketing.

Read the rest of what I wrote, it was not one person at the ad company it was the person at the ad company who runs the show throwing his hands up saying apple as tied their hands and will not allow them to market the future things apple is doing. It obviously he know what they are up to, but apple as usually will not allow them to market which is not already in the market place. Schiller comment is they have great product in the market already and this company can not think of a better ad campaign then to focus on what is coming next. Schiller comment about Samsung commercial was point at their next big things is already here. 

 

You need to read between the line here, there is no way apple will allow emails to leave the company which have any comments about future products. They are talking in code and inferences.

post #67 of 76
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

The whole thing is kind of an embarrassing case for TVs.

 

They’re TVs. Not sound systems.

Originally Posted by Marvin

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post #68 of 76
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Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


Look at the email portion with the first suggestion, where the ad guy says:

"advertising can absolutely help to begin to change this chilling negative narrative to a more positive one, particularly if they are seen as part of a broader effort within the company"

- company behavior - how should we behave? (lawsuits, china/usa workers, too rich, giveback)
- product roadmap - whats our next innovation? (bigger screens, new look software, maps, product cycles)
- advertising - changing the conversation? (iPhone 5 difference, competitive depositioning, apple brand slipping)
- sales approach - new tactics? (carriers, in-store, spiffs, retail approach)

Then he calls for an emergency meeting to "help pull Apple through".

He may have been describing narratives but he was also validating them by suggesting they needed a response and that portion as a whole was way out of line. Schiller's response was totally appropriate:

"to come back and suggest that Apple needs to think dramatically different about how we are running our company is a shocking response."

The ad guy's suggestions are in brackets where he's saying 'innovate don't litigate', spend more cash, sort out working conditions in factories, suggesting that big screens, maps etc qualify as big innovations for Apple, competitive depositioning - basically doing what Samsung does by trying to badmouth the competition, spiffs - sales bonuses to retailers for pushing the iPhone, again what the likes of Samsung does.

That one section instantly showed that the ad agency representing them didn't have a clue what they're about and that is shocking from a company that has helped define a lot of their best marketing.

Sometimes people go off on tangents so a single email isn't grounds for ditching a whole agency but Schiller was right to call them out on it and if it turned out to be representative of the whole agency's feelings towards Apple then that is cause for concern.

I just re-read the citation to better respond to this, and I still think it's a very heavy discussion for email. The two of them have obviously worked together for a lot of years. I thought the use of 1997 related to that in the sense that it was the last time they really needed an aggressive advertising stance. The agency contact is referring to an overall narrative after receiving an email concerning negative PR. As for the emergency meeting, look at Schiller's initial email. "We have a lot of work to do to turn this around." It's scary to get a line like that from a client, so he reacts big. I'm not sure if you've ever experienced the awkwardness of responding to something that ominous via email. It really is more of a meeting topic.

post #69 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post
 

YOU CAN'T BUY A TV WITH A DECENT SET OF SPEAKERS BUILT IN. IT'S A JOKE!!!!

 

http://www.panasonic.com/business/plasma/index.asp

Buy one of the panasonic commercial displays that don't have speakers, and then add your own speakers (wall mount or floor standing).  They are cheaper than the ones with speakers, and they have plug in modules for inputs (so you can switch dvi, hdmi, etc).

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post #70 of 76
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Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Get a sound bar.

Sound bars suck.
 
Where's the new Apple TV?
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Where's the new Apple TV?
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post #71 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by pazuzu View Post

Sound bars suck.


You could get something from Paradigm:

http://www.paradigm.com/products-current/type=inwall

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post #72 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post
 

 

Foreign accents are racist now? Colourful here meant variety, not skin tone. Besides, when you include every colour human who are you being racist towards?

Didn't see that ad yet and it is a bit idiotic...

 

Colorful? Racism? I might have used other words. "Color... for the Vibrant" for instance (as silly a tagline as the ad. Just to show that a tagline can be construed without any possible reference to racism)

post #73 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Perhaps, but we'll have to wait and see.

If my 8-year old Pioneer TV with its sound-chin can have awesome sound and still manage to look elegant I don't see how Apple can't improve upon that. Is my current TV well designed? Yes, it looks beautiful. Does it sound very good for a TV with no additional speakers? Yes. Could Apple do better if they were focused to achieve attractive looks and great sound quality in equal measure? Yes.

When watching a good TV show or good movie sound is absolutely crucial. Having to add on products to achieve the desired affect is bad design. Think about it, what is crucial needs to be added to said product after unboxing? That makes no sense in an Apple's world.

Why do people suggest adding on a soundbar? Because they have no idea what they are talking about. They are enthusiast. They're not regular people. Regular people should never be calling Apple to ask them which sound-bar they should add on. Apple should sell them a finished product where everything they need is built in.

The ideal Apple television will be one that has an App Store, a bundled bluetooth remote with Siri, very nicely designed optional hardware games controllers, exquisite hardware set design, 802.11n, movies for rent at a good price, an iTunes TV subscription service, calibrated colour reproduction, Kuro-level blacks, top-quality motion performance, and also crucially, great sound quality. If Apple can't do all that with their TV then perhaps they shouldn't bother trying. Their focus according to themselves is to make the best products in the world, to do so they need to do all that. Although, given just how tricky it's going to be for them to get content owners to ink that iTunes TV deal, maybe they should just unleash this product at full price alongside their regular Apple TV product and continue to work on ways to add that iTunes TV 2-year contract. If there ever came a day where they did ink a descent iTunes TV deal then they could simply continue to offer iTV on their website at full price without a contract, but also now subsided with a 2-year contract. Just like the way they offer iPhones at full price on Apple.com alongside subsidised units. The only difference in this case being that they'd be fulfilling the entire deal. The whole banana.

Well at least you have a discerning and good taste in quality TVs as we know them now.

Here's an article why taking the "brains" out of a TV is also a good thing now and in the future as technology is progressing at a torrid pace. Apple and/or a manufacturer that get's this right is doing us all a favor.

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/04/just-having-a-4k-tv-isnt-enough-to-see-netflixs-4k-streams/

What you're describing and desire is a "big iMac". An "all-in-one" that you describe is a product that could have seen a certain amount of success 6 or 7 years ago.

In those years I was using an iMac as my main TV with an EyeTV box which included a CI slot for a premium subscription to Sky and Arena before them (a now defunct provider for mostly American sports, ESPN, etc.). This setup is still being run by a friend of mine on a MacMini with a Sony screen and 7.1 setup, and it is easily the best DVR/entertainment system I have ever seen or used. Basically... you get everything entertainment related in any format or with any service that you could desire, mainly because of the browser. That's not to forget full iTunes, iPhoto, software of all kinds, whatever. Also, the whole thing is controlled from an iPad these days with any number of remote apps.

My theory (hope) has been for a long time for Apple to marry their devices together in a home cloud server the size of a Time Capsule or smaller. Add an ATV-type module or allow apps to be played in a window or directly from iTunes. Add Safari... and I think Apple would not only have the absolute best entertainment system, but the easiest configurable security backup device and NAS on the market.... by a long shot. Suffice it to say I think this type of device would benefit from iOS "Pro" or a "iOS Server" version.

The device that I envision is IMO what is missing in the Apple line-up between iOS and OSX... or even families and individuals that have no "real" need going forward for anything OSX at all. Also, if it could do all that I mention above, including hooking up to a sound system, OLED panel (or immediately rendered "Dumb TV"), and 2-4 HDMI inputs for other devices, I could see Apple selling boatloads for slightly less than $1000.-... and it being worth it.

NOTE: there is one interesting aspect to your all-in-one, and also something that I haven"t seen discussed: an Apple all-in-one TV being subsidized by a cable provider.

Let's be honest, iPhone is as big as it is in America and select countries because of it's carrier subsidized contracts. People that purchase their phones in other countries with PAYG don't purchase iPhones because of the large up front cost of the device, which is more than many folk expect to pay for a full PC or laptop. Also, at the end of a contract, you can keep the phone, or trade up to a new one that has all of the new bells and whistles and is faster (of course) and pass down the "old" phone to a loved one, SO, etc.

Imagine Apple partnering with a cable provider and doing the same thing, including data and channel packages at preferred-customer speeds. All hell would break loose due to net neutrality being sabotaged... but hey... when hasn't Apple released a major storm of one kind or another with a re-visioning of a new/old product?

What IF a new ATV is "just a (subsidized) giant iPad or monster-size iPhone"...? ... 1smoking.gif
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post #74 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by pazuzu View Post

Sound bars suck.

Not compared to the speakers that most TVs come with.
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post #75 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post

The agency contact is referring to an overall narrative after receiving an email concerning negative PR. As for the emergency meeting, look at Schiller's initial email. "We have a lot of work to do to turn this around." It's scary to get a line like that from a client, so he reacts big.

I agree that Schiller's initial email sounded like they were worried but it's not appropriate for any ad agency to tell a company how to conduct itself, especially when those suggestions are based on 3rd party reports. He had every right to suggest marketing strategies but never to say they should stop suing people, sort out their workers in China, stop hoarding cash, look at making better products, give out incentives to sales staff and so on - the ad guy said the marketing changes had to come with a broader effort within Apple. Phil made it clear beforehand that the problem lay with their marketing - their public communication about who they are, which had been sullied. That put the the entire blame on the ad agency and they tried to turn it back on Apple. Not cool when they're one of their biggest and most important clients.

They must have patched things up though as their recent ad campaigns are really well made:

http://theinspirationroom.com/daily/tag/tbwamedia-arts-lab/
post #76 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


I agree that Schiller's initial email sounded like they were worried but it's not appropriate for any ad agency to tell a company how to conduct itself, especially when those suggestions are based on 3rd party reports. He had every right to suggest marketing strategies but never to say they should stop suing people, sort out their workers in China, stop hoarding cash, look at making better products, give out incentives to sales staff and so on - the ad guy said the marketing changes had to come with a broader effort within Apple. Phil made it clear beforehand that the problem lay with their marketing - their public communication about who they are, which had been sullied. That put the the entire blame on the ad agency and they tried to turn it back on Apple. Not cool when they're one of their biggest and most important clients.

They must have patched things up though as their recent ad campaigns are really well made:

http://theinspirationroom.com/daily/tag/tbwamedia-arts-lab/

 

Yeah they did a nice job on those. I initially typed a longer response, but it came down to the issue that I think the ad agency guy was focusing on narrative there. They saw a less positive narrative in headlines and wanted to fix that before it got any worse. I suspect part of it was lip service to appease a potentially disgruntled client. When a client feels the need to forward an article like that with such a brief and negative line attached, it can be disconcerting. I've been on the receiving end of that, so I know it's not fun.

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