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JP Morgan sees Apple further eating away at Windows PC market with sub-$1000 iOS notebook - Page 2

post #41 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Why would they use iOS when they already have Mac OS X with all the components that are needed for a desktop OS? That "full-featured" version of iOS for a notebook is Mac OS X. I would have given JP Morgan more credit if they said that Apple could leverage future A-series chips by compiling Mac OS X to run on it either as Mac OS X or as a new OS name.

IDK, the idea of an expanded iOS running, with kb/touchpad, on a somewhat more powerful device than an iPad intrigues me.

There are several no-man's-lands separating iOS and OSX -- the file system and multiple, overlapping windows. The touch UI on the iPad could handle these -- but I think a mouse/touchpad would provide a superior experience.

Consider a device with 4-8GB RAM 128-256GB SSD.


Aside: My iMac 27" is awaiting service and I am typing this on a Mac Mini -- 2.2GHz Core 2 Duo, 4GB RAM, 320GB HDD ... It is pure agony compared to using a iPad 4 -- even though the Mini has a BT KB/Mouse and a 23" Cinema Display.
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post #42 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post

(Thread officially WAY off track)

One could say it was put through the Shredder.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #43 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

IDK, the idea of an expanded iOS running, with kb/touchpad, on a somewhat more powerful device than an iPad intrigues me.

There are several no-man's-lands separating iOS and OSX -- the file system and multiple, overlapping windows. The touch UI on the iPad could handle these -- but I think a mouse/touchpad would provide a superior experience.

Consider a device with 4-8GB RAM 128-256GB SSD.


Aside: My iMac 27" is awaiting service and I am typing this on a Mac Mini -- 2.2GHz Core 2 Duo, 4GB RAM, 320GB HDD ... It is pure agony compared to using a iPad 4 -- even though the Mini has a BT KB/Mouse and a 23" Cinema Display.

1) I'm not opposed to that option but it's been done before with awful results. But so had the tablet until Apple came along.

2) I'd still think it would be very close if not the same as the Aqua UI with the proper frameworks as an option for that type of setup, not unlike CarPlay being a separate UI that gets called, albeit a much larger one.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #44 of 134
And these are the guys who want to help us invest our live's savings. Sure...........
post #45 of 134
The ~$500 laptop price point is the largest part of the traditional PC segment and although post-pc devices are selling in huge amounts, over 300 million PCs are sold per year. It doesn't require iOS to target this though. Apple's entry Macbook Air uses a $315 processor. They could use one of those Atom or Celeron processors around $100. That would easily shave off $200 from the retail price to hit $799. It might even be possible to hit $699.

Although these processors are lower powered, computers hit an acceptable level of performance for basic use years ago and SSDs and larger amounts of RAM have boosted overall performance. That allows them to target 16% of the laptop sales they aren't right now, which would be around 30m units per year. Say they take 1/5th of that, that's 6m per year or 1.5m units per quarter on top of their ~5m Mac units already. The Mac makes up 12.5% of their revenue ($21b) so 6m x $799 = ~$5b increase (under 3% overall).

That's just revenue too and there's the effect of people buying cheaper models than before rather than just new buyers. I think it would help boost the Mac userbase but it's not going to do much for Apple's profits. Still, someone buying a Mac laptop might then be inclined to buy an iPhone and iPad. 1.5m per quarter is hardly anything though.

It is a shame that Apple sells 150m iPhones per year but only 16m Macs. Macs are upgraded less often now but even if a Mac user upgrades their iPhone 3 times as much, more than 2/3 of their iPhones are being sold to Windows users. That's no good at all. Given that the Mac side isn't making much money anyway, I reckon a lower laptop entry price would be the best route to go. Just as long as they keep the performance reasonable.
post #46 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

👩 Megan Fox

She's probably the only good thing in the movie.
post #47 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

IDK, the idea of an expanded iOS running, with kb/touchpad, on a somewhat more powerful device than an iPad intrigues me.

There are several no-man's-lands separating iOS and OSX -- the file system and multiple, overlapping windows. The touch UI on the iPad could handle these -- but I think a mouse/touchpad would provide a superior experience.

Consider a device with 4-8GB RAM 128-256GB SSD.


Aside: My iMac 27" is awaiting service and I am typing this on a Mac Mini -- 2.2GHz Core 2 Duo, 4GB RAM, 320GB HDD ... It is pure agony compared to using a iPad 4 -- even though the Mini has a BT KB/Mouse and a 23" Cinema Display.

1) I'm not opposed to that option but it's been done before with awful results. But so had the tablet until Apple came along.

2) I'd still think it would be very close if not the same as the Aqua UI with the proper frameworks as an option for that type of setup, not unlike CarPlay being a separate UI that gets called, albeit a much larger one.

Ha! The potential is kind of piquing your interest too.

Imagine iCloud with a special format/access, like dropbox, for these crossover devices and Macs.

If PCs are trucks and iPads are cars -- then these devices would be SUVs.

I don't know that Apple needs to make a lot of money with this device but it certainly needs something between OS X and iOS.

Elegantly typed and dictated on my iPad 4.
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post #48 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

The ~$500 laptop price point is the largest part of the traditional PC segment and although post-pc devices are selling in huge amounts, over 300 million PCs are sold per year. It doesn't require iOS to target this though. Apple's entry Macbook Air uses a $315 processor. They could use one of those Atom or Celeron processors around $100. That would easily shave off $200 from the retail price to hit $799. It might even be possible to hit $699.

Although these processors are lower powered, computers hit an acceptable level of performance for basic use years ago and SSDs and larger amounts of RAM have boosted overall performance. That allows them to target 16% of the laptop sales they aren't right now, which would be around 30m units per year. Say they take 1/5th of that, that's 6m per year or 1.5m units per quarter on top of their ~5m Mac units already. The Mac makes up 12.5% of their revenue ($21b) so 6m x $799 = ~$5b increase (under 3% overall).

That's just revenue too and there's the effect of people buying cheaper models than before rather than just new buyers. I think it would help boost the Mac userbase but it's not going to do much for Apple's profits. Still, someone buying a Mac laptop might then be inclined to buy an iPhone and iPad. 1.5m per quarter is hardly anything though.

It is a shame that Apple sells 150m iPhones per year but only 16m Macs. Macs are upgraded less often now but even if a Mac user upgrades their iPhone 3 times as much, more than 2/3 of their iPhones are being sold to Windows users. That's no good at all. Given that the Mac side isn't making much money anyway, I reckon a lower laptop entry price would be the best route to go. Just as long as they keep the performance reasonable.

Apple doesn't cater to the lowest common denominator. If the customer doesn't care about performance and would settle for a underpowered laptop, perhaps they actually need an iPad. Apple makes those.
post #49 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukefrench View Post
 

In Steve own words : We dont ship junk / We don't offer stripped down lousy products

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu0qeb_rJYU

 

Amazing, that absolutely nothing has changed. The same morons, cynics, trolls, opportunists, liars, and douchebags are still drumming on "marketshare", and the same answer applies 100% today. Back in 2008, Apple had a sliver of the marketshare it had today- yet, it is still doomed today because of "marketshare", as if Apple hasn't proven itself yet. Unbelievable. 

post #50 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

The ~$500 laptop price point is the largest part of the traditional PC segment and although post-pc devices are selling in huge amounts, over 300 million PCs are sold per year. It doesn't require iOS to target this though. Apple's entry Macbook Air uses a $315 processor. They could use one of those Atom or Celeron processors around $100. That would easily shave off $200 from the retail price to hit $799. It might even be possible to hit $699.

Mmm... A while back,on researching Intel, I discovered that Intel takes the CISC instructions of the x86 and through a proprietary process, real-tine converts them to RISC instructions which are executed.
Quote:
Starting with Pentium 4, Intel redesigned it's microprocessors and used internal RISC core under the old CISC instructions. Since Pentium 4 all CISC instructions are divided into smaller parts and then executed by mentioned RISC core.

At the beginning it was clear for me that Intel decided to hide new internal architecture and force programmers to use "CISC shell". Thanks to this decision Intel could fully redesign microprocessors architecture without breaking compatibility, it's reasonable.

However I don't understand one thing, why Intel still keeps an internal RISC instructions set hidden for so many years? Why wouldn't they let programmers use RISC instructions like the use old x86 CISC instructions set?

If Intel keeps backward compatibility for so long (we still have virtual 8086 mode next to 64 bit mode), Why don't they allow us compile programs so they will bypass CISC instructions and use RISC core directly? This will open natural way to slowly abandon x86 instructions set, which is deprecated nowadays (this is the main reason why Intel decided to use RISC core inside, right?).

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5806589/why-does-intel-hide-internal-risc-core-in-their-processors
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post #51 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Ha! The potential is kind of piquing your interest too.

Imagine iCloud with a special format/access, like dropbox, for these crossover devices and Macs.

If PCs are trucks and iPads are cars -- then these devices would be SUVs.

I don't know that Apple needs to make a lot of money with this device but it certainly needs something between OS X and iOS.

Elegantly typed and dictated on my iPad 4.

If Apple can't even allow a guest account on the iPad or work/play environment, like on BBX, I wonder if they would seriously consider such a thing.

I had thought we discussed this back with the Motorola Atrix came on the market and again when the Asus PadFone arrived. It's one of those "no compromise" ideas that seems to be nothing but a compromise but with ARM and Apple's advancements in SoCs, and Apple controlling the OS if anyone can pull it off I think it's Apple.

Recently I talked about how I think Mac OS X (or something like it) on an A-series chip could work for Apple on an inexpensive notebook but that was just a single desktop OS on ARM. That seems more plausible to me than Apple making a dual-UI system because of the potential issues of getting the user to comprehend the difference.

We have no problem with that and oft it seems Apple says 'no' to something I think wouldn't have been an issue but we need to think about what Apple would likely do. For that reason I think Apple is more likely to grow and streamline their Cloud so that discreet devices can better interact with each other. I find Apple's documents in the cloud to be a great start.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

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post #52 of 134
A virtual semi transparent keyboard will solve the iPad screen real estate problem.
Make the iPad 12 to 13 inch and it can be used as a full fledged computer.
Arm CPU/GPU power isn't a problem, that's already equivalent to the best supercomputers of 1993.
Adapting iOS shouldn't be a problem for Apple.
post #53 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Ha! The potential is kind of piquing your interest too.

Imagine iCloud with a special format/access, like dropbox, for these crossover devices and Macs.

If PCs are trucks and iPads are cars -- then these devices would be SUVs.

I don't know that Apple needs to make a lot of money with this device but it certainly needs something between OS X and iOS.

Elegantly typed and dictated on my iPad 4.

If Apple can't even allow a guest account on the iPad or work/play environment, like on BBX, I wonder if they would seriously consider such a thing.

I had thought we discussed this back with the Motorola Atrix came on the market and again when the Asus PadFone arrived. It's one of those "no compromise" ideas that seems to be nothing but a compromise but with ARM and Apple's advancements in SoCs, and Apple controlling the OS if anyone can pull it off I think it's Apple.

Recently I talked about how I think Mac OS X (or something like it) on an A-series chip could work for Apple on an inexpensive notebook but that was just a single desktop OS on ARM. That seems more plausible to me than Apple making a dual-UI system because of the potential issues of getting the user to comprehend the difference.

We have no problem with that and oft it seems Apple says 'no' to something I think wouldn't have been an issue but we need to think about what Apple would likely do. For that reason I think Apple is more likely to grow and streamline their Cloud so that discreet devices can better interact with each other. I find Apple's documents in the cloud to be a great start.

I agree with everything you say.

FWIW, the SUV device I was discussing would not have a dual UI. It would be an unique, non-touch UI -- more similar to the desktop.
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post #54 of 134

Seriously ?!? How much does this firm and this consultant make.... This has to be the most retarded piece of research yet ! Lets make a netbook... lol Are they familiar with the iPad ?

 

Obviously they JUST DONT GET IT.

post #55 of 134

I don't see how this guy's solution makes Apple any money at all...

 

The costs involved with "creating" a notebook of this type, plus all of the programming required to get iOS to be "full featured" and work optimally with mice and keyboards is astronomical.

 

And whats the benefit? To sell a notebook for a little less than the macbook air and a little more than the iPad?! 

 

Which only leads to Apple cannibalizing its own products for incredibly low profit margins... 

 

This guy really needs to be fired.

 

His iAnywhere concept is even more stupid considering that many Apple executives clearly stated that they will not be doing this.

post #56 of 134
Sounds like a bunch of old timers who know absolutely nothing about tech, like people who were on the board of Apple when they were about to go bankrupt.
post #57 of 134
Yeah, because the eMate did so well.
post #58 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by maccherry View Post

What a stupid piece of research. This is just a trigger to get investors hyped over nothing.
iPads are killing sales of full fledge pcs!!!!!

Exactly!
Enjoying the new Mac Pro ... it's smokin'
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Enjoying the new Mac Pro ... it's smokin'
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini.
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post #59 of 134
Google/Android are going to force Apple prices down. Not down to their levels, but down.

Do you know how many people would be perfectly fine with a $300 Chromebook? LOTS. So these days when a Dad can outfit a wife and two kids with Chromebook under the price of one MacBook Pro, that has to be tempting.

My wife doesn't need a MacBook Air. She needs a Mac 'Chrome' Book. An iOS laptop in the $500 range would make her very happy, with auto iCloud Time Machine backup.

Oh, and iCloud needs to be about $25 a year per terabyte. As YouTube demonstrates, that's an easy price to manage.

This is where things are going, whether we OS X purists like it or not.
post #60 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

Apple has said numerous times it was not going to put a touch screen on a traditional computer.

Which doesn't rule out a non traditional approach. Nor does it eliminate other product categories.


I can see Apple offering an expanded range of iOS devices such as a larger iPad, an Apple TV and the like. I can also see something somewhat laptop like. However there is little incentive for Apple to make iOS into another Mac OS.

As for an ARM based laptop, I'm all for it if it runs real Mac OS and doesn't skimp on support hardware (RAM and flash storage). ARM, especially in an upgraded A8 chip, could be very interesting for the type of laptop use I usually engage in.
post #61 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by macaholic_1948 View Post

Q: If this is such a great idea, why isn't Microsoft with its Surface and Windows 8 system capturing the market now?

A: Maybe, because they don't meet what consumers want.

Well no, Surface and even Windows 8 suck hard.
post #62 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukefrench View Post

In Steve own words : We dont ship junk / We don't offer stripped down lousy products
Fortunately technology allows companies like Apple to ship good quality at a lower price every year. Just look at the evolution of the Air from a high priced under performing machine into a market leading platform. The simple fact that it is possible to ship high quality at a lower cost demands that Apple shift some of its business into the sub $1000 range. The reality is that there are high quality sub $1000 laptops already on the market.

The other way to look at this is to dissect A7 and SoC in general. Being able to pack a good portion of all logic required onto one very low cost chip, leads to the possibility of huge reductions in hardware costs while still allowing fat margins for Apple. IPad is a perfect example here as it is a real computer and a quality device.
post #63 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Is JP Morgan's new Apple blog called iStupid? iOS isn't made for a mouse. Get over it.

Yet in the jailbreak community the mouse can work well. I'd go so far as to say a mouse could enhance certain types of iOS GUI operations with little if any changes to iOS.

Not that I think Apple needs to go this route, what it really needs to do is go full throttle with Artificial Intelligence with the goal of putting much of the AI right in the computing device. Again a mouse is about looking towards the past, it wouldn't be a bad thing to have mouse support in iOS, it is just that the future won't be written with the aid of a mouse.
post #64 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

IDK, the idea of an expanded iOS running, with kb/touchpad, on a somewhat more powerful device than an iPad intrigues me.
Done right it could be a desirable platform.
Quote:
There are several no-man's-lands separating iOS and OSX -- the file system and multiple, overlapping windows. The touch UI on the iPad could handle these -- but I think a mouse/touchpad would provide a superior experience.
Personally I'd rather see an ARM based device be built with real Mac OS but supporting iPad apps in a window. Obviously Apple is 99.9% of the way there with the XCode iOS emulation layer. What this does is gives the platform an immediate supply of good apps to work along with the greater world of Mac OS and UNIX apps.
Quote:
Consider a device with 4-8GB RAM 128-256GB SSD.
Please I'm in public, no wood producing suggestions please.
Quote:

Aside: My iMac 27" is awaiting service and I am typing this on a Mac Mini -- 2.2GHz Core 2 Duo, 4GB RAM, 320GB HDD ... It is pure agony compared to using a iPad 4 -- even though the Mini has a BT KB/Mouse and a 23" Cinema Display.

Why is that; speed or software behavior!
post #65 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

Amazing, that absolutely nothing has changed. The same morons, cynics, trolls, opportunists, liars, and douchebags are still drumming on "marketshare", and the same answer applies 100% today. Back in 2008, Apple had a sliver of the marketshare it had today- yet, it is still doomed today because of "marketshare", as if Apple hasn't proven itself yet. Unbelievable. 

You guys are missing the point here! Technology now allows Apple to build high quality hardware at a much lower cost. Since this reality also applies to the competition Apple has no choice but to lower prices over time. That doesn't mean that they compete dollar for dollar but rather the keep the perception in people's minds that an Apple device is worth a few hundred over the run of the mill hardware.
post #66 of 134

And this Virginia, is why most Apple analysts are considered imbeciles.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #67 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Personally I'd rather see an ARM based device be built with real Mac OS but supporting iPad apps in a window. Obviously Apple is 99.9% of the way there with the XCode iOS emulation layer. What this does is gives the platform an immediate supply of good apps to work along with the greater world of Mac OS and UNIX apps.

That makes sense ...

I keep falling into the trap: thinking that OSX needs to run on Intel so the user can optionally run Windows.


The problem with the Mini was speed (typing and switching) -- Mail and 18 Safari tabs. I have more running on the iPad (suspended).


Edit: The more I think about this the more I like it. A kb with a good touchpad and the ability to run multiple iPad apps receiving background updates, while running OSX apps.
Edited by Dick Applebaum - 4/8/14 at 5:44pm
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post #68 of 134
Brain dead on arrival.
post #69 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Is JP Morgan's new Apple blog called iStupid? iOS isn't made for a mouse. Get over it.

 

In his defense, he's never used an iOS. Or a mouse. He's an analyst.

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post #70 of 134
There is a fundamental argument to be made against the thought of a more fully-featured iPad or iOS device with a keyboard. iOS and the iPad was designed to be an easy to use and modestly yet powerfully equipped mobile computing device. And thing more is a PC. When all the power users and tech bloggers and journalists and analysts get on this kick that iOS and the iPad needs to be more "full-featured", I interpret that as they just want a smaller, touch screened MacBook. We all know that is the opposite of what the iPad and iOS is. So why force these demands? We all saw the videos and the digram that Schiller showed at the Gen 1 iPad Keynote. A touch screen laptop DOSENT WORK.

That's the first fundamental argument to make against and iPad-pro. Useage. What are you really needing an iPad for? If it really just work or using productivity apps that are powerful and not really meant for a 9" screen? Then you probably are better suited with a MacBook. You're only going to frustrate yourself into forcing an iPad to do something it really isn't intended for. Yes Apple thinks the iPad can work as a content creation device for the lowest common denominator of the customer base, but for the office and or/ power user, the iPad is just not it. So why force it? Unless there is inherently another hidden reason why we are hearing wild demands for an iPad-pro.

If you want a full featured desktop experience in a small for factor, Apple has the MacBook Air 11". It's faster than the iPad, not quite as light but light enough and it's the full-featured experience that everyone wants, that is bitching and whining for a full-featured iOS device. So what's the point?

The only point that makes any sense to me about the pro-iPad argument is the one argument this article finally admits inadvertently. PRICE.
this article basically is saying iOS and the iPad are great products and enormously successful, but what the power users and business users want is something like this but with a keyboard and pointing device, all at the same price point and size and weight as the current iPad airs if not slightly more after you add the keyboard and boosted hardware. Once again the analysts are saying they want Apple to either lower their prices or make a device at the price point of their most popular products to gain PC market share.

So Wall Street is basically saying Apple should make the MS Surface Pro. Which, not entirely a bad idea but bad implementation. Sure something like this is possible for Apple to do. But do they want to waste their time with a stop-gap like the surface or try to truly innovate? Not to mention there are tons of 3rd party options for a keyboard on the iPad. Yes, the productivity issue is still there, but now that we have MS office and much improved iWork apps, the only difference I can see between the iPad and the Mac now is the pointing method size, speed and weight. The UI being the biggest difference. And that's where my argument against and iPad-pro comes in. Even if they made and iOS device with a bigger screen, keyboard and pointing method other than touch, you basically have a laptop. So what is iOS doing for you that OSX on an ultra-light form factor not doing for you, other than size, weight and price?
post #71 of 134
Does anyone make any reasonable margin on a $599 laptop? No.
Would it cannibalise sales of the MB Air which AAPL do make money on? Yes.
Would it dilute AAPL's premium positioning and brand perception? Yes.

Therefore, analyst talking rubbish because they don't understand the difference between volume and profit. Again.
post #72 of 134
This is the reason why Wall Street analysts don't work for creative companies like Apple or whomever.

Wall Street looks at the bottom line. What's the price point, and works back to the type of product that might fill that price point to make the most profit and highest market share.

Apple starts at the product, then figures out how to get to the price point or nearly there, never compromising experience for cost.

It's two different ways of looking at product design and sales. Something tells me the Apple way is the better way, something Wall Street cold have never predicted.
post #73 of 134

What Apple needs is a netbook with BluRay, a matte screen, USB 3 and HDMI at sub $300...

 

...maybe then these analysts will f*ck off.

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post #74 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

There is a fundamental argument to be made against the thought of a more fully-featured iPad or iOS device with a keyboard. iOS and the iPad was designed to be an easy to use and modestly yet powerfully equipped mobile computing device. And thing more is a PC.  ...

 

There is a fundamental argument to be made for a more fully-featured iPad with a larger size.

The argument is that a larger iPad is the most minimalistic computer you can make in a traditional setting.

It is just a slab of glas attached to a computing layer and thats it. Its usage is also pretty close to traditional paper (A4 size should be perfect) and the way people worked for thousands of years using a reading desk and proven by evolution to be the best way to work.

So what hardware feature is missing from the iPad? Not a keyboard, that is solved by making it virtual and transparant, not the mouse because we have touch for that (thats the whole point). Its the pen (or stylus) a tool that enhances our drawing precision and reduces the object size, a tool thats also proven by evolution to be the best solution.  

post #75 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by knowitall View Post
 

 

<...>Its the pen (or stylus) a tool that enhances our drawing precision and reduces the object size, a tool thats also proven by evolution to be the best solution.  

 

 

OK, then I just have to wait for evolution to grow me a pen ? 

There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life.

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post #76 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by knowitall View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

There is a fundamental argument to be made against the thought of a more fully-featured iPad or iOS device with a keyboard. iOS and the iPad was designed to be an easy to use and modestly yet powerfully equipped mobile computing device. And thing more is a PC.  ...

There is a fundamental argument to be made for a more fully-featured iPad with a larger size.
The argument is that a larger iPad is the most minimalistic computer you can make in a traditional setting.
It is just a slab of glas attached to a computing layer and thats it. Its usage is also pretty close to traditional paper (A4 size should be perfect) and the way people worked for thousands of years using a reading desk and proven by evolution to be the best way to work.
So what hardware feature is missing from the iPad? Not a keyboard, that is solved by making it virtual and transparant, not the mouse because we have touch for that (thats the whole point). Its the pen (or stylus) a tool that enhances our drawing precision and reduces the object size, a tool thats also proven by evolution to be the best solution.  

Or, an inexpensive laptop running OSX optimized for 64-bit ARM -- a keyboard, touchpad, standard I/O ports and non-touch screen ...

Less expensive (no Intel tax) than a MacBook Air – more powerful than an iPad.

Run native iOS apps concurrently with native OS X apps.

Faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound.

Target a price range of $600-$800 -- I'm really starting to get jazzed about this!
Edited by Dick Applebaum - 4/9/14 at 4:25am
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post #77 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Apple doesn't cater to the lowest common denominator. If the customer doesn't care about performance and would settle for a underpowered laptop, perhaps they actually need an iPad. Apple makes those.

You can't manage bulk storage with an iPad, format drives, connect to USB peripherals, run all the productive software of OS X like Adobe Illustrator or XCode. These don't need huge amounts of performance and until an iPad can do that, a laptop will still be preferred.

The Celeron 2955U is over $200 less than the CPU used in the $999 Air:

http://ark.intel.com/products/75608/Intel-Celeron-Processor-2955U-2M-Cache-1_40-GHz

It's used in the Acer Aspire E1-532 and it scores like a 2009 dual-core Macbook Pro:

http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench2/2389949
http://browser.primatelabs.com/mac-benchmarks

That doesn't mean to say a Mac laptop with one would perform like a 2009 laptop because they use PCIe SSD now, have much faster and more memory and they don't heat up nearly so much. They don't need to use that particular CPU but there are options that would let them ship a solid Intel-based entry-level laptop for $799 without sacrificing any of the build quality of the Air.

People are buying iPads and iPhones anyway but most of those buyers are Windows users. It may not be worth doing if the additional sales don't increase marketshare enough to offset the lower price and it drives people away from the $999 price point but the stats show buyers at $499. Some of those would consider a Mac at $799 where they wouldn't at $999.

12" laptop, designed like the MBP styling with black bezels, 128GB SSD, 4GB RAM soldered, Haswell or Broadwell Celeron/Pentium/Atom at a performance level around a 2009/2010 Mac laptop, starting at $799.
post #78 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Apple doesn't cater to the lowest common denominator. If the customer doesn't care about performance and would settle for a underpowered laptop, perhaps they actually need an iPad. Apple makes those.

You can't manage bulk storage with an iPad, format drives, connect to USB peripherals, run all the productive software of OS X like Adobe Illustrator or XCode. These don't need huge amounts of performance and until an iPad can do that, a laptop will still be preferred.

The Celeron 2955U is over $200 less than the CPU used in the $999 Air:

http://ark.intel.com/products/75608/Intel-Celeron-Processor-2955U-2M-Cache-1_40-GHz

It's used in the Acer Aspire E1-532 and it scores like a 2009 dual-core Macbook Pro:

http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench2/2389949
http://browser.primatelabs.com/mac-benchmarks

That doesn't mean to say a Mac laptop with one would perform like a 2009 laptop because they use PCIe SSD now, have much faster and more memory and they don't heat up nearly so much. They don't need to use that particular CPU but there are options that would let them ship a solid Intel-based entry-level laptop for $799 without sacrificing any of the build quality of the Air.

People are buying iPads and iPhones anyway but most of those buyers are Windows users. It may not be worth doing if the additional sales don't increase marketshare enough to offset the lower price and it drives people away from the $999 price point but the stats show buyers at $499. Some of those would consider a Mac at $799 where they wouldn't at $999.

12" laptop, designed like the MBP styling with black bezels, 128GB SSD, 4GB RAM soldered, Haswell or Broadwell Celeron/Pentium/Atom at a performance level around a 2009/2010 Mac laptop, starting at $799.

Why does it need an Intel chip?

Couldn't it run on an ARM A8 or somesuch?
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
post #79 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

Apple has said numerous times it was not going to put a touch screen on a traditional computer.

Exactly.  But if Apple introduced a laptop than ran iOS with trackpad support for under £500 I would buy one tomorrow.

post #80 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosslad View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

Apple has said numerous times it was not going to put a touch screen on a traditional computer.
Exactly.  But if Apple introduced a laptop than ran iOS with trackpad support for under £500 I would buy one tomorrow.

Why iOS?

Why not 64-bit ARM-optimized OS X with native OSX and native iOS apps running concurrently?
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
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