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JP Morgan sees Apple further eating away at Windows PC market with sub-$1000 iOS notebook - Page 3

post #81 of 134
Why do you need Intel?

On OSX, You can run MS Office, iWorks, iLife, Apple Pro apps, iOS apps and cloud apps.
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post #82 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

JP Morgan sees us riding robot dinosaurs to work, too. It all makes sense if you're as smart as they are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post

I'd buy a 12-13" ARM based rMBA. For extreme horsepower needs I'll use my rMBP 15". Don't need to lower price of the MBA to get my attention. Happy to trade x86 for ARM and Retina at the current price and battery levels.



What apps would you run on it? If iPad apps, then choose your favorite iPad keyboard and go! If OS X apps... you'll need a tidal wave of Mac developers saying they're willing to not merely make another CPU transition (remember how long PPC->Intel took?) but support TWO architectures indefinitely! (On top of ARM iOS if they already have those apps as well.) All that just for this "in-between" unloved hybrid option that few will choose. Not happening any time in the foreseeable future. iOS will keep gaining pro power, but ARM Macs? No.

I'll stick with a nice Intel retina MBA! And sometimes an iPad keyboard cover.

 

Which air model do you have? I didnt know they had one like that?! And having a stardard keyboard is like defining the use of it. Having different kinds of keyboards is a really BAD thing from UI perpectives. Why do you think apple only has one model of keyboard layouts (well 99% the same atleast) for the last 15 years. Why does VNC use suck on an ipad? bacause of the UIs and keyboard layouts. If you could nail that resolution to native resolution on an ipad I could have used the ipad for some work on my macs but it REALLY sucks now. I never use it now bacause of the lack of finess. I even sold my ipad and bought an 11" air instead. If apple doesnt bring it out someone else will deliver on this. Well microsofts RDC works like it should but to buy +100$ of software to power a RDC server on the mac really pisses off.

 

Nice for those ipad users that use windows computers :(

post #83 of 134
I think JP Morgan has been huffing paint thinner again.
post #84 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Both are Michael Bay vehicles so I'm not sure where the dumping occurred. Shia LaBeouf won't be in the next Transformers.

They must have patched things up then. Money can do that.
http://gawker.com/5358318/team-michael-bays-megan-fox-diss-letter-censored
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post #85 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

You can't manage bulk storage with an iPad, format drives, connect to USB peripherals, run all the productive software of OS X like Adobe Illustrator or XCode. These don't need huge amounts of performance and until an iPad can do that, a laptop will still be preferred.

The avg consumer doesn't care about that.
post #86 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

They must have patched things up then. Money can do that.
http://gawker.com/5358318/team-michael-bays-megan-fox-diss-letter-censored

That doesn't seem so bad. Using terms like Hitler and Nazi are stilly and I can see how that could affect you in Hollywood as a whole, but if I were Micheal Bay I personally wouldn't take offense to it. In fact, I now have more respect for Bay because Fox stated how much of being so driven in his work. I certainly don't see that side of him with his movies, although I did think Pain & Gain was hilarious for being based on a true story.

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post #87 of 134
(edited for clarity)

I'm a die hard Mac user and former professional since the 90s. I have got an iPhone, iPad and a MBA.

I don't think most of you are getting it and are reacting emotionally as you guys all love your Macs and the Mac is what you fought for for many years.

Yes the Mac is gaining over the PC but not to the unbelievable pace iOS is.

The point in question here my friends - and please don't burn me at the stake - is that Apple created an entire new platform that, contrary to Mac OS, has the chance at becoming the platform of choice as the people love it with a passion. We are not talking of Mac aficionados or geeks, we are talking regular folks. They just love the iOS platform.

There is a paradigm shift going on here, put simply - the world is transitioning to full on mobile, handheld.

You guys don't see that MacBooks are the compromise, not iPads.

You guys don't see that the PC/Mac paradigm is dead, it's a cancer patient with a deadline.

You guys don't see that the Mac platform is hardly pushing anyone to buy iOS devices, that it's the other way around.

It's a matter of time! And the software developers like Adobe and Microsoft already realized this - and they KNOW this is coming for a fact - so even today Lightroom and a few weeks back the entire Office suite are being presented as iOS Apps as independent as possible from PC. And they'll be full on self-sufficient soon.

The Mac/PC platform is living tied to a respiratory machine, it's in a coma guys, no matter how much you're attached to it. Sure there'll be Prosumers and Professionals still needing Macs for a transitional period and Apple built the Mac Pro for that.

No, what's coming up as a huge news very soon is Apple once again canibalizing itself because the iOS platform is growing between 10-100 times more than the Mac OS, because it has virtually limitless growth ahead.

iOS is the chance for Apple to becoming the dominant player, it is obvious in iPad dominance. Bluetooth keyboards work wonderfully with the iPad, add a touchpad to it and you've got a full fledged computer if you add a few bits to the iOS that make it a bit more powerful like the possibility of adding Wi-Fi external HD from within iOS. There are already solutions for it but they suck since they're hardly integrated into the OS.

This is the operating system that will be powering your car, opening your garage door, operating your wall screen TV set, your fridge, a multitude of home automation gadgets. You can be in the crapper with this computer and work with it still. I mean, I have slept with the iPhone on airplane mode as it monitors my sleep and wakes me up on the best possible moment to make for my best possible day! I don't sleep with Macs, I don't take the Mac to the crapper. I only use the Mac rarely now as most functions are covered by the iPhone and the iPad.

Guys it's a matter of time and Apple is famous for canibalizing itself not waiting for others to do it. Frankly I bought the MacBook Air cos I had to simply because the ecosystem is still much centered in the Mac and I got tons of movies and music I cannot put inside the iPad.

Why else do you think Apple spent so much R&D with desktop class A7 on the iPhone?

Look at the huge adoption rate of the AppStore versus the negligible adoption rate of the Mac AppStore!

Don't you see that the biggest software publishing houses would jump on the iOS bandwagon with excitment if it turned from a Mac peripheral to a full blown independent platform?

Don't you see that the iOS is Jobs' vision and dream come true of stopping being the better niche market company and finally becoming the dominant player?!

The smartphone market is really a distraction that Apple is letting Samsung play in and this is the reason why it's majorly investing in the lawsuits - so that as a magician it makes people not put their full attention on the next big thing which is the Apple iOS world.

With Mac OS you buy one machine that lasts 10 years. With iOS you buy all kinds of gadgets that all complement themselves effortlessly and elegantly and you buy them every couple of years.

The next step is making big time software houses transition their heavy weight Apps to iOS by giving them a platform that can perform well and do what the client wants with fun.

The Mac OS is a bunch of functionalities put together that still require a lot of struggle. iOS is an easy peasy thing. A beautifully achieved NEW APPLE PLATFORM that Apple knows is its future and its chance at dominating the market place while profiting from an almost infinite market potential.

People buy an iPhone and then they buy an iPad while trying to avoid going to obsolete grandpa Mac OS platform. The MacBook market is growing because if that but look at the iPad market and its potential.

It's the entire PC industry that's dying, folks, but not because of the iPad - the iPad was just brilliant Jobsy vision of the incoming future and he got there first in such a way that others are still scratching their heads - but it was inevitable!!!

It's obvious where this is going and trying to cling on to a dying platform for emotional attachment reasons is not the Apple way. It will kill its own products if it takes it to become the de facto number one computational platform supplier.

This is a multi-decade vision playing before your eyes. Jobs saw it and he set the plan that will in 30 years time still be valid.

Stop crying over the Mac OS, it's in comatose in an elder nursery home. Forget about it entirely! It's a platform trying to be what the iOS touch platform already is.

It is just a matter of time til the iOS platform becomes the powerhouse with which you'll do anything, Jobs has invested in the A# line of SoC chips buying more and more into that field that they may even shove Intel aside entirely for that purpose. Otherwise, why would *conservative* Apple invest so much and put too much power computing in the iPhone in their line of chips if not for what's coming up?!

And guys, Apple is the revolutionary, they won't wait - not this time - for others to try do it first, not this time as it would mean their chance at harming Apple from being the dominating platform. I mean, MS tried before with their tablets it but they didn't have 800 million enthusiastic highly invested users behind their effort, they had half a dozen geeks, not the regular folk.

Apple will announce it soon and put the entire industry in a tidal wave of ecstatic excitement making AAPL go through the roof when people realize what it really means.

It's not getting a dying PC platform another chance with a new life support machine. No.

It's the iOS coming of age, ceasing to be a fun however limited gadget people adore and becoming the de facto computing platform.

Look at Facebook, Adobe, astounding Microsoft move with Office. They know it's coming and most probably in June. Microsoft knows that Office on iOS after such iOS deluge announcement will be its survival air breathing pipe. They'll say "we are here from the start riding this tidal wave the same way we were with Apple with 150 million back in the day (we are not such bad dudes and Bill/monkey are gone, please love us Apple lovers)".

And Tim Cook will have had his day with a vengeance from all the crap they say of him.

This is also why Apple is quietly but firmly investing big time in Cloud server farms while they know they can subcontract to respond to explosive demand.

Compare the two platforms and their potential and it's really a no brainer.

Jobs was an unconditional visionary and creators KNOW they need to destroy in order to create. Look at Germany and Japan, almost totally destroyed and because of it where they are today, comparing to those that escaped harmlessly to war time destruction and where they are today. Think of Shiva, you know Jobs were in India studying spirituality, he knew.

Look at the PowerPC-Intel transition where Apple destroyed its former platform and with it gained such badly needed life force and momentum!

And the beauty of it all is that they don't need to kill the Intel based OS X platform at all, not even divesting from it, they just need to unleash the iOS platform's full potential, that's it. They'll probably have two Apple companies internally if they haven't got them already.

Guys, this is not about MacBook versus iPad + keyboard form function.

Key word is Platform.

And it is evident that with the numbers everyone sees, the Core of the platform is changing from Intel to Ax SoC, from PC to handheld and wearables and ubiquitous.

This is not even guess work, it's in your face given Apple's investment in chip making. And knowing this, rumor has it they may integrate baseband processing into their SoC making for an always on anywhere paradigm. Yes, even in the crapper ;-)

This Jobs knew 10 years ago and he built it quietly and deeply, structuredly.

Steer your boat to where the future is, it's really not about creating, it's about envisioning. Jobs did NOT create the smartphone, he implemented a vision, a vision of what the future would unfold. He just helped the future come to the present. And this vision is easy to see and it's still got 30 years ahead of successful implementations.

That's why Cook and people haven't been too worried about the bad media SameThing bought off and the attacks on AAPL, they are building it and people will come. They are coming!

Think of China and all those 100s of millions buying the iPhone first and then the iPad Pro. Think about it for a minute. 10-30x the number of machines with a solid future ahead, not a dealine.

The Apple versus SameSing trial was badly needed to inform the masses that SS is not the real deal but a cheap substitute that doesn't give people the full experience they can have, that they are copiers and not the creators. This conveys the message that "you'll want to be with the creators that others try to copy" for what the ecosystem can give you that others cannot. And the iPad Pro will be the nail in the wall to hang that painting.

The iPad Pro and the coming of a more powerful iOS is a matter of time. And I believe, given MS Office move etc, that the time is now. June is the time. A tidal wave will start, ALL Mac OS X and Windows developers jumping on board porting their Apps to iOS as it will not be a gadget OS any more!

I rest my case.

Written on an iPhone 5S 64!
Edited by XamaX - 4/9/14 at 8:27am
post #88 of 134
Full-featured iOS?! That's called OS X. iOS is only useful on a low-powered device with a touch-screen... no one wants the silly restrictions (like NO MOUSE support!) on a netbook. How about a stripped down OS X on a $400-$600 netbook from Apple rather than a beefed up iOS?

In any case I agree Apple needs a more affordable netbook, considering $1000 for the Macbook Air is way too expensive for some people / use-cases, and it's faster than some people need. A netbook could be slower than the MBA if necessary to reduce cost; but the most important points would be low price and fully featured (the latter of which iOS is NOT).

Converging a desktop OS with a touch screen OS is a Bad Idea; just ask WIndows 8. Different hardware, different use-cases, different requirements.
post #89 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Why does it need an Intel chip?

Couldn't it run on an ARM A8 or somesuch?

It could run on ARM but none of the iOS software is designed to be used with a mouse. It works ok with a mouse as the iOS simulator demonstrates but if they can get a cheap enough Intel chip, the ARM chip doesn't offer much advantage.

The only reasons to go with ARM are if they offer significantly better performance per dollar or performance per watt. This has been the case in the past but as time goes on, Intel's low power CPUs are becoming really good options and it saves the compatibility headache with software already design for a mouse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark 
The avg consumer doesn't care about that.

Maybe not those examples but the point is that people looking for a basic notebook can't always switch to an iPad. The fact that 100 million people are buying cheap laptops shows that. It's not that they are choosing between a laptop or a tablet either, they often have both but Apple's missing out on the laptop sale because they are too expensive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by XamaX 
You guys don't see that MacBooks are the compromise, not iPads.

You guys don't see that the PC/Mac paradigm is dead, it's a cancer patient with a deadline.

You guys don't see that the Mac platform is hardly pushing anyone to buy iOS devices, that it's the other way around.

You can't develop software for iOS using iOS. This is partly down to Apple's restriction of not allowing dynamic code to run except for their Javascript engine. Until this changes, iOS can never replace OS X.

Software needs to run dynamic code, especially higher end software. It needs to be able to generate executables and launch subprocesses.

Apple has stated they see both systems in their future as they serve different purposes. They said they didn't plan to merge them. I like the idea of being able to use touch with OS X but their preference here is via things like the trackpad and if it's expanded then it opens a lot of possibilities.

It seems clear that a lot of people who have bought PCs in the past have done so because there wasn't a more appropriate device for them so I reckon that a significant portion of the 300m+ PC buyers there still are every year will move to post-pc devices. I don't ever see that market going away until post-pc devices lift the restrictions. That goes for hardware too. There's no way a photographer will be able to use an iPad exclusively with 1GB RAM.
post #90 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by XamaX View Post

(edited for clarity)

I'm a die hard Mac user and former professional since the 90s. I have got an iPhone, iPad and a MBA.

I don't think most of you are getting it and are reacting emotionally as you guys all love your Macs and the Mac is what you fought for for many years.

Yes the Mac is gaining over the PC but not to the unbelievable pace iOS is.

The point in question here my friends - and please don't burn me at the stake - is that Apple created an entire new platform that, contrary to Mac OS, has the chance at becoming the platform of choice as the people love it with a passion. We are not talking of Mac aficionados or geeks, we are talking regular folks. They just love the iOS platform.

There is a paradigm shift going on here, put simply - the world is transitioning to full on mobile, handheld.

You guys don't see that MacBooks are the compromise, not iPads.

You guys don't see that the PC/Mac paradigm is dead, it's a cancer patient with a deadline.

You guys don't see that the Mac platform is hardly pushing anyone to buy iOS devices, that it's the other way around.

Think about your last statement -- why are iOS platform users buying OSX devices? Could be that they want/need more capability than they can get from their current iOS platform/devices?

Quote:

It's a matter of time! And the software developers like Adobe and Microsoft already realized this - and they KNOW this is coming for a fact - so even today Lightroom and a few weeks back the entire Office suite are being presented as iOS Apps as independent as possible from PC. And they'll be full on self-sufficient soon.

The Mac/PC platform is living tied to a respiratory machine, it's in a coma guys, no matter how much you're attached to it. Sure there'll be Prosumers and Professionals still needing Macs for a transitional period and Apple built the Mac Pro for that.

No, what's coming up as a huge news very soon is Apple once again canibalizing itself because the iOS platform is growing between 10-100 times more than the Mac OS, because it has virtually limitless growth ahead.

iOS is the chance for Apple to becoming the dominant player, it is obvious in iPad dominance. Bluetooth keyboards work wonderfully with the iPad, add a touchpad to it and you've got a full fledged computer if you add a few bits to the iOS that make it a bit more powerful like the possibility of adding Wi-Fi external HD from within iOS. There are already solutions for it but they suck since they're hardly integrated into the OS.

This is the operating system that will be powering your car, opening your garage door, operating your wall screen TV set, your fridge, a multitude of home automation gadgets. You can be in the crapper with this computer and work with it still. I mean, I have slept with the iPhone on airplane mode as it monitors my sleep and wakes me up on the best possible moment to make for my best possible day! I don't sleep with Macs, I don't take the Mac to the crapper. I only use the Mac rarely now as most functions are covered by the iPhone and the iPad.

Guys it's a matter of time and Apple is famous for canibalizing itself not waiting for others to do it. Frankly I bought the MacBook Air cos I had to simply because the ecosystem is still much centered in the Mac and I got tons of movies and music I cannot put inside the iPad.

Why else do you think Apple spent so much R&D with desktop class A7 on the iPhone?

Look at the huge adoption rate of the AppStore versus the negligible adoption rate of the Mac AppStore!

Don't you see that the biggest software publishing houses would jump on the iOS bandwagon with excitment if it turned from a Mac peripheral to a full blown independent platform?

Don't you see that the iOS is Jobs' vision and dream come true of stopping being the better niche market company and finally becoming the dominant player?!

The smartphone market is really a distraction that Apple is letting Samsung play in and this is the reason why it's majorly investing in the lawsuits - so that as a magician it makes people not put their full attention on the next big thing which is the Apple iOS world.

With Mac OS you buy one machine that lasts 10 years. With iOS you buy all kinds of gadgets that all complement themselves effortlessly and elegantly and you buy them every couple of years.

The next step is making big time software houses transition their heavy weight Apps to iOS by giving them a platform that can perform well and do what the client wants with fun.

The Mac OS is a bunch of functionalities put together that still require a lot of struggle. iOS is an easy peasy thing. A beautifully achieved NEW APPLE PLATFORM that Apple knows is its future and its chance at dominating the market place while profiting from an almost infinite market potential.


You do realize that Mac OSX and iDevice OSX (iOS) are 80%-90% the same under the hood. Basically, iOS removes unneeded components, substitutes a touch UI, adds stronger sandboxing and hides complexity from the user. Mac OSX could easily be presented to the user in a similar fashion to iOS.

Quote:

People buy an iPhone and then they buy an iPad while trying to avoid going to obsolete grandpa Mac OS platform. The MacBook market is growing because if that but look at the iPad market and its potential.

It's the entire PC industry that's dying, folks, but not because of the iPad - the iPad was just brilliant Jobsy vision of the incoming future and he got there first in such a way that others are still scratching their heads - but it was inevitable!!!

It's obvious where this is going and trying to cling on to a dying platform for emotional attachment reasons is not the Apple way. It will kill its own products if it takes it to become the de facto number one computational platform supplier.


I agree, that at some point, the iDevice and iOS (OSX) will be the platform for all but the most specialty users. But we are not there yet! I can see the laptop under discussion as a transitional product (hardware, OS, Aps) that will provide developers and users an orderly migration to a brave new world.

In the past, Apple used Rosetta to facilitate migration. Today, Apple has a much more powerful toolset: Xcode and a common OSX in its various flavors (Mac Desktop, Mac Mobile, iPad, iPhone, iPod Touch, iPod,AppleTV, and wearables).

Quote:

This is a multi-decade vision playing before your eyes. Jobs saw it and he set the plan that will in 30 years time still be valid.

Stop crying over the Mac OS, it's in comatose in an elder nursery home. Forget about it entirely! It's a platform trying to be what the iOS touch platform already is.

It is just a matter of time til the iOS platform becomes the powerhouse with which you'll do anything, Jobs has invested in the A# line of SoC chips buying more and more into that field that they may even shove Intel aside entirely for that purpose. Otherwise, why would *conservative* Apple invest so much and put too much power computing in the iPhone in their line of chips if not for what's coming up?!

And guys, Apple is the revolutionary, they won't wait - not this time - for others to try do it first, not this time as it would mean their chance at harming Apple from being the dominating platform. I mean, MS tried before with their tablets it but they didn't have 800 million enthusiastic highly invested users behind their effort, they had half a dozen geeks, not the regular folk.

Apple will announce it soon and put the entire industry in a tidal wave of ecstatic excitement making AAPL go through the roof when people realize what it really means.

It's not getting a dying PC platform another chance with a new life support machine. No.

It's the iOS coming of age, ceasing to be a fun however limited gadget people adore and becoming the de facto computing platform.

Look at Facebook, Adobe, astounding Microsoft move with Office. They know it's coming and most probably in June. Microsoft knows that Office on iOS after such iOS deluge announcement will be its survival air breathing pipe. They'll say "we are here from the start riding this tidal wave the same way we were with Apple with 150 million back in the day (we are not such bad dudes and Bill/monkey are gone, please love us Apple lovers)".

And Tim Cook will have had his day with a vengeance from all the crap they say of him.

This is also why Apple is quietly but firmly investing big time in Cloud server farms while they know they can subcontract to respond to explosive demand.

Compare the two platforms and their potential and it's really a no brainer.

Except, as far as the OS is concerned -- it really is a single platform. The new/reworked development for iOS has been ported back to OSX ...

Apple is a lot of things, but they aren't technically stupid!

Quote:

Jobs was an unconditional visionary and creators KNOW they need to destroy in order to create. Look at Germany and Japan, almost totally destroyed and because of it where they are today, comparing to those that escaped harmlessly to war time destruction and where they are today. Think of Shiva, you know Jobs were in India studying spirituality, he knew.

Look at the PowerPC-Intel transition where Apple destroyed its former platform and with it gained such badly needed life force and momentum!

And the beauty of it all is that they don't need to kill the Intel based OS X platform at all, not even divesting from it, they just need to unleash the iOS platform's full potential, that's it. They'll probably have two Apple companies internally if they haven't got them already.

Guys, this is not about MacBook versus iPad + keyboard form function.

Key word is Platform.

And it is evident that with the numbers everyone sees, the Core of the platform is changing from Intel to Ax SoC, from PC to handheld and wearables and ubiquitous.

And we are at the point where the Ax hardware is robust enough to run Mac OSX -- no need for an Intel chip to run native Mac OSX and iOS software.

Quote:

This is not even guess work, it's in your face given Apple's investment in chip making. And knowing this, rumor has it they may integrate baseband processing into their SoC making for an always on anywhere paradigm. Yes, even in the crapper ;-)

This Jobs knew 10 years ago and he built it quietly and deeply, structuredly.

Steer your boat to where the future is, it's really not about creating, it's about envisioning. Jobs did NOT create the smartphone, he implemented a vision, a vision of what the future would unfold. He just helped the future come to the present. And this vision is easy to see and it's still got 30 years ahead of successful implementations.

That's why Cook and people haven't been too worried about the bad media SameThing bought off and the attacks on AAPL, they are building it and people will come. They are coming!

Think of China and all those 100s of millions buying the iPhone first and then the iPad Pro. Think about it for a minute. 10-30x the number of machines with a solid future ahead, not a dealine.

The Apple versus SameSing trial was badly needed to inform the masses that SS is not the real deal but a cheap substitute that doesn't give people the full experience they can have, that they are copiers and not the creators. This conveys the message that "you'll want to be with the creators that others try to copy" for what the ecosystem can give you that others cannot. And the iPad Pro will be the nail in the wall to hang that painting.

The iPad Pro and the coming of a more powerful iOS is a matter of time. And I believe, given MS Office move etc, that the time is now. June is the time. A tidal wave will start, ALL Mac OS X and Windows developers jumping on board porting their Apps to iOS as it will not be a gadget OS any more!

I rest my case.

Written on an iPhone 5S 64!

Edited by Dick Applebaum - 4/9/14 at 9:38am
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post #91 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


Maybe not those examples but the point is that people looking for a basic notebook can't always switch to an iPad. The fact that 100 million people are buying cheap laptops shows that. It's not that they are choosing between a laptop or a tablet either, they often have both but Apple's missing out on the laptop sale because they are too expensive.

100 million users? Damn, how much profit are those guys making? Meanwhile Apple has 43% of the PC profits just by selling what they have.
post #92 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

100 million users? Damn, how much profit are those guys making? Meanwhile Apple has 43% of the PC profits just by selling what they have.

Apple's competitors don't have the same unique status so they have to hand over margins to retailers and rely on them to push the machines and they don't differentiate themselves enough from each other (only one manufacturer runs OS X). Apple making a more affordable laptop using a cheaper CPU simply hits a more accessible price point with no extra effort on their part and the same healthy margins they have now.

It might not increase their profits much but I don't see why having a $799 entry price for a laptop is such a bad thing.
post #93 of 134
Quote:
 What apps would you run on it?

 

Knowing Apple... it's one of the factors in their vision for the Mac App Store. Have everything running in sandboxes with key APIs which can be moved to ARM/iOS.

 

A 12" Retina Laptop thinner than a MacBook Air with iOS, Mac App Store & ridiculous battery life would not surprise me in the slightest!


Edited by Dazabrit - 4/9/14 at 10:24am
5-8" MultiTouch Mini Tablet would go down a treat if you're reading!
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5-8" MultiTouch Mini Tablet would go down a treat if you're reading!
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post #94 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

100 million users? Damn, how much profit are those guys making? Meanwhile Apple has 43% of the PC profits just by selling what they have.

Apple's competitors don't have the same unique status so they have to hand over margins to retailers and rely on them to push the machines and they don't differentiate themselves enough from each other (only one manufacturer runs OS X). Apple making a more affordable laptop using a cheaper CPU simply hits a more accessible price point with no extra effort on their part and the same healthy margins they have now.

It might not increase their profits much but I don't see why having a $799 entry price for a laptop is such a bad thing.

I can't find a BOM breakdown of the current low-end MacBook Air -- especially the 1.3GHz dual-core Intel Core i5 chip

Intel says the recommended customer price is $315:

http://ark.intel.com/products/75028/


I suspect that Apple's cost is $150-$200 ???

The A7 in the iPad Air cost $18.

Let's assume that Apple could make an A8 for a cost of $35-$50.

All else equal, the BOM savings on a ARM-only (no Intel) MacBookAir would be $100-$150 less that the current BOM of $600 ???

If so, this would make a $700-$800 ARM-only (no Intel) MacBookAir a viable, profitable product.
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post #95 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I can't find a BOM breakdown of the current low-end MacBook Air -- especially the 1.3GHz dual-core Intel Core i5 chip

Intel says the recommended customer price is $315:

http://ark.intel.com/products/75028/


I suspect that Apple's cost is $150-$200 ???

The A7 in the iPad Air cost $18.

Let's assume that Apple could make an A8 for a cost of $35-$50.

All else equal, the BOM savings on a ARM-only (no Intel) MacBookAir would be $100-$150 less that the current BOM of $600 ???

If so, this would make a $700-$800 ARM-only (no Intel) MacBookAir a viable, profitable product.

Sounds doable to me.

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post #96 of 134
I can't see Apple doing it. It would only take sales off the the higher price point macs. If they did it would be the slow death for the higher price point models. Most consumers would only see the lower price and wonder why buy a full price Mac when there is this budget model. A race to the bottom where Apple loses money to itself?
post #97 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazabrit View Post

Knowing Apple... it's one of the factors in their vision for the Mac App Store. Have everything running in sandboxes with key APIs which can be moved to ARM/iOS.

A 12" Retina Laptop thinner than a MacBook Air with iOS, Mac App Store & ridiculous battery life would not surprise me in the slightest!

That's how envision it, too. They'd likely make it very easy for developers and for customers if it shows up on MAS it'll work on your machine.

My questions are: If they go this route…
  • … will they still allow app installations that are downloaded outside MAS? (I would hope so)
  • … will they still call it Mac OS X or create a new name to help differentiate it? (MS has shown that using Windows for everything can be harmful).

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post #98 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by singularity View Post

I can't see Apple doing it. It would only take sales off the the higher price point macs. If they did it would be the slow death for the higher price point models. Most consumers would only see the lower price and wonder why buy a full price Mac when there is this budget model. A race to the bottom where Apple loses money to itself?

I wholeheartedly disagree. If it affects anything I'd think it would affect iPad sales, but people that want to buy a 15" MBP aren't going to be happy with a 12" iBook running on ARM. It would certainly lower the ARP of Macs as a result of selling a much cheaper Apple "PC" in higher volume, but their total unit sales, revenue, and profits would be much higher. Also, since they are saving a great deal on the CPU/GPU but still offering a performance level those customers would want it could end up having a high profit margin that could bring in more profit per unit than the base model 11" MBA at $999.

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post #99 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by singularity View Post

I can't see Apple doing it. It would only take sales off the the higher price point macs. If they did it would be the slow death for the higher price point models. Most consumers would only see the lower price and wonder why buy a full price Mac when there is this budget model. A race to the bottom where Apple loses money to itself?

Apple has traditionally lowered prices (usually with a new model) and/or offered increased capability at the same price.

Periodically, this is necessary to remain competitive and avoid a price umbrella.

If Apple can make a quality, profitable [in Apple's terms] product at competitive costs -- more power to them.

If somebody is going to disrupt Apple's higher price points -- it better be Apple!
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post #100 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazabrit View Post

Knowing Apple... it's one of the factors in their vision for the Mac App Store. Have everything running in sandboxes with key APIs which can be moved to ARM/iOS.

A 12" Retina Laptop thinner than a MacBook Air with iOS, Mac App Store & ridiculous battery life would not surprise me in the slightest!

That's how envision it, too. They'd likely make it very easy for developers and for customers if it shows up on MAS it'll work on your machine.

My questions are: If they go this route…
  • … will they still allow app installations that are downloaded outside MAS? (I would hope so)
  • … will they still call it Mac OS X or create a new name to help differentiate it? (MS has shown that using Windows for everything can be harmful).

Interesting questions ...

I suspect they will allow app installs outside of MAS.

The OS name depends on whether Apple wants to differentiate or consolidate -- I suspect the latter, to appeal to developers and users.
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post #101 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by singularity View Post

I can't see Apple doing it. It would only take sales off the the higher price point macs. If they did it would be the slow death for the higher price point models. Most consumers would only see the lower price and wonder why buy a full price Mac when there is this budget model. A race to the bottom where Apple loses money to itself?

I wholeheartedly disagree. If it affects anything I'd think it would affect iPad sales, but people that want to buy a 15" MBP aren't going to be happy with a 12" iBook running on ARM. It would certainly lower the ARP of Macs as a result of selling a much cheaper Apple "PC" in higher volume, but their total unit sales, revenue, and profits would be much higher. Also, since they are saving a great deal on the CPU/GPU but still offering a performance level those customers would want it could end up having a high profit margin that could bring in more profit per unit than the base model 11" MBA at $999.


Bingette 1biggrin.gif

This could be one of the most savvy moves Apple has ever made -- NetBooks done right (the Apple way) -- superior hardware, superior OS, superior apps (OSX and iOS) -- all in an inexpensive and usable package!
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post #102 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Bingette 1biggrin.gif

I don't know what that means.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

This could be one of the most savvy moves Apple has ever made -- NetBooks done right (the Apple way) -- superior hardware, superior OS, superior apps (OSX and iOS) -- all in an inexpensive and usable package!

Cue the "It's not a real computer" and "It's using a toy processor" comments.

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post #103 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Bingette 1biggrin.gif

I don't know what that means.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

This could be one of the most savvy moves Apple has ever made -- NetBooks done right (the Apple way) -- superior hardware, superior OS, superior apps (OSX and iOS) -- all in an inexpensive and usable package!

Cue the "It's not a real computer" and "It's using a toy processor" comments.
That's not a a real computer with its toy processor 1smile.gif:thumbup:
post #104 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Bingette 1biggrin.gif

I don't know what that means.

It's a diminutive of "Bingo".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

This could be one of the most savvy moves Apple has ever made -- NetBooks done right (the Apple way) -- superior hardware, superior OS, superior apps (OSX and iOS) -- all in an inexpensive and usable package!

Cue the "It's not a real computer" and "It's using a toy processor" comments.[/quote]

Oh, it'll be a real computer -- It'll run FCP, Logic, Office, iWorks, iLife, GarageBand, iMovie, Photoshop, etc. Likely much better than the Core 2 Duo I am running this on!

Just not legacy Windows app/crap or an emasculated Chrome OS.

This will hit a real sweet spot, IMO!
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post #105 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I can't find a BOM breakdown of the current low-end MacBook Air -- especially the 1.3GHz dual-core Intel Core i5 chip

Intel says the recommended customer price is $315:

http://ark.intel.com/products/75028/

I suspect that Apple's cost is $150-$200 ???

The A7 in the iPad Air cost $18.

Let's assume that Apple could make an A8 for a cost of $35-$50.

All else equal, the BOM savings on a ARM-only (no Intel) MacBookAir would be $100-$150 less that the current BOM of $600 ???

If so, this would make a $700-$800 ARM-only (no Intel) MacBookAir a viable, profitable product.

If Apple could get a discount like that on the i5 then the same would apply to the Celeron/Atom etc CPUs that have a price of ~$100 so closer to $50-60.

I don't think ARM has the advantage here at this point over a Celeron. These cheaper CPUs score around 1.6 in Cinebench:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K77qMkMRako

That's a desktop chip but is comparable performance and that is only $64:

http://ark.intel.com/products/53486

That's about 1/4 of a Macbook Pro performance or one of the cores.
post #106 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I can't find a BOM breakdown of the current low-end MacBook Air -- especially the 1.3GHz dual-core Intel Core i5 chip

Intel says the recommended customer price is $315:

http://ark.intel.com/products/75028/

I suspect that Apple's cost is $150-$200 ???

The A7 in the iPad Air cost $18.

Let's assume that Apple could make an A8 for a cost of $35-$50.

All else equal, the BOM savings on a ARM-only (no Intel) MacBookAir would be $100-$150 less that the current BOM of $600 ???

If so, this would make a $700-$800 ARM-only (no Intel) MacBookAir a viable, profitable product.

If Apple could get a discount like that on the i5 then the same would apply to the Celeron/Atom etc CPUs that have a price of ~$100 so closer to $50-60.

I don't think ARM has the advantage here at this point over a Celeron. These cheaper CPUs score around 1.6 in Cinebench:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K77qMkMRako

That's a desktop chip but is comparable performance and that is only $64:

http://ark.intel.com/products/53486

That's about 1/4 of a Macbook Pro performance or one of the cores.

Mmm ... Nothing so annoying as facts!

It's been about 4 years since I Jailbroke an iDevice -- an AppleTV. It was amazing how similar the iOS was to OSX -- and it ran really well on the ARM chip.

Time forward to today ... We have custom ARM (and supporting) silicon and highly-tuned iOS and OSX migrating towards each other.

I guess my point is that Apple could tune OSX to exploit their custom A8 or A9 silicon, while removing any x86 overhead. Doing this, I suspect that Apple could narrow the performance gap you mention.

A few years ago, I read that in one prerelease of iOS, Apple included all the ProRes codecs -- on ARM!

Video codecs are some of the most CPU/GPU processor-intensive users of the hardware. Why would Apple do that if the hardware wasn't capable?

Maybe the A8 is not capable of running OSX acceptably on the device/price point we have been discussing ... Sigh 1frown.gif
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post #107 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Bingette.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

It's a diminutive of "Bingo".

I was thinking they were dancers for Bing in another poor attempt at marketing by MS¡ 1biggrin.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

If Apple could get a discount like that on the i5 then the same would apply to the Celeron/Atom etc CPUs that have a price of ~$100 so closer to $50-60.

I don't think ARM has the advantage here at this point over a Celeron. These cheaper CPUs score around 1.6 in Cinebench:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K77qMkMRako

That's a desktop chip but is comparable performance and that is only $64:

http://ark.intel.com/products/53486

That's about 1/4 of a Macbook Pro performance or one of the cores.

Did you take into account performance per Watt and the overhead reduction Monsieur Applebaum mentions? Even with the A7 at 1.3GHz it's doing very well.

When I see things like this (below) and consider how far Apple has taken their A-series in such a short time I can't help but think this is definitely doable.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Anand Lal Shimpi 
At the launch of the iPhone 5s, Apple referred to the A7 as being "desktop class" - it turns out that wasn't an exaggeration.

Edited by SolipsismX - 4/9/14 at 1:17pm

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post #108 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Bingette.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

It's a diminutive of "Bingo".

I was thinking they were dancers for Bing in another poor attempt at marketing by MS¡ 1biggrin.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

If Apple could get a discount like that on the i5 then the same would apply to the Celeron/Atom etc CPUs that have a price of ~$100 so closer to $50-60.

I don't think ARM has the advantage here at this point over a Celeron. These cheaper CPUs score around 1.6 in Cinebench:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K77qMkMRako

That's a desktop chip but is comparable performance and that is only $64:

http://ark.intel.com/products/53486

That's about 1/4 of a Macbook Pro performance or one of the cores.

Did you take into account performance per Watt and the overhead reduction Monsieur Applebaum mentions? Even with the A7 at 1.3GHz it's doing very well.

When I see things like this (below) and consider how far Apple has taken their A-series in such a short time I can't help but think this is definitely doable.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Anand Lal Shimpi 
At the launch of the iPhone 5s, Apple referred to the A7 as being "desktop class" - it turns out that wasn't an exaggeration.

Thanks for the above -- pretty impressive!

I wonder if Apple would do a special Ax chip for an ARM-only OSX laptop -- more CPU and GPU Cores, Higher Clocking, More RAM, etc. With the larger device size, power, heat and battery are less restrictive.

As I mentioned elsewhere, I've been using a Core 2 Duo 2.6 GHz 4GB Mini running OSX 9.2 -- and it is pure agony compared to an iPad 4 doing more.
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post #109 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I wonder if Apple would do a special Ax chip for an ARM-only OSX laptop -- more CPU and GPU Cores, Higher Clocking, More RAM, etc. With the larger device size, power, heat and battery are less restrictive.

I don't see why not. That sounds like a great reason to being back the X version of their A-series chip with additional cores and performance.

Note they don't have to put the RAM package on the SoC. It could be discreet thereby allowing Apple to sell versions with different amounts of RAM without having to change the SoC. I'd also like to see, if this ARMBook happens, the use of PCIe SSDs, not NAND on the logic board. We're still taking about a small board with plenty of power savings over a traditional notebook design.
Edited by SolipsismX - 4/9/14 at 2:24pm

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post #110 of 134
I have to disagree, I don't think you'd be able to install anything outside of the Mac App Store. The APIs/sandbox in the MAS are the key as they're all designed and pre-approved by Apple so they can guarantee it will work and offer a smooth experience for the customer. Apps outside of that system could be incompatible with the architecture and wouldn't translate.
 
I literally have no idea what they would call the OS or whether they would spin it off (again) but I would lean towards the Mac OS X side of things due to the inclusion of the MAS ;)
 
If they did go this route I would expect to see:
* 12" Retina Display
* A8/A9 64-bit Processor clocked between 1.4GHz & 1.9GHz
* 4GB RAM
* ULTRA Ultra thin laptop (likely with very little port support)
* 24 hour battery life
* Non clickable touchpad design due to space constraints
* Some kind of new keyboard technology to reduce the size (leaving space for an adequate battery)
* New developments in OS X/iOS for further compatibility (iCloud file developments, iOS to OS X AirDrop etc)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


That's how envision it, too. They'd likely make it very easy for developers and for customers if it shows up on MAS it'll work on your machine.

My questions are: If they go this route…
  • … will they still allow app installations that are downloaded outside MAS? (I would hope so)
  • … will they still call it Mac OS X or create a new name to help differentiate it? (MS has shown that using Windows for everything can be harmful).

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


Interesting questions ...

I suspect they will allow app installs outside of MAS.

The OS name depends on whether Apple wants to differentiate or consolidate -- I suspect the latter, to appeal to developers and users.
 
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post #111 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazabrit View Post

I have to disagree, I don't think you'd be able to install anything outside of the Mac App Store. The APIs/sandbox in the MAS are the key as they're all designed and pre-approved by Apple so they can guarantee it will work and offer a smooth experience for the customer. Apps outside of that system could be incompatible with the architecture and wouldn't translate.

I literally have no idea what they would call the OS or whether they would spin it off (again) but I would lean towards the Mac OS X side of things due to the inclusion of the MAS 1wink.gif

I certainly wouldn't be surprised if that happened but I think they'd have to lock down a "desktop" OS pretty tight to keep it from being a possibility. I would hope they would have some semi-hidden setting that would allow this.

edit: This would keep Adobe Flash, Silverlight and perhaps even Java off these systems, but that might be a good thing.

If they aren't going to allow access to user-installed Apps they might finally get rid of Finder, Terminal, and rely much more heavily on iCloud, as you state. I could see the Desktop being the only "folder" users get access to. If any of that is true I think calling it a Mac or OS X would be a bad move. Not only does it add to the confusion between both Mac types but it also gives the Chicken Littles more reason to believe in a plunging firmament….Not that it matters, even if they named it OS Y and issued a statement saying that "Macs are the trucks of the computer world and so we understand that you need certain tools not available in OS Y" they would still fear the worst.
Quote:
If they did go this route I would expect to see:
* 12" Retina Display
* A8/A9 64-bit Processor clocked between 1.4GHz & 1.9GHz
* 4GB RAM
* ULTRA Ultra thin laptop (likely with very little port support)
* 24 hour battery life
* Non clickable touchpad design due to space constraints
* Some kind of new keyboard technology to reduce the size (leaving space for an adequate battery)
* New developments in OS X/iOS for further compatibility (iCloud file developments, iOS to OS X AirDrop etc)

1) I'm thinking it would be clocked quite a bit higher than 1.4GHz. Over 2Ghz is what I'd expect.

2) Those trackpad and keyboard patents fit in very nicely hear.
Edited by SolipsismX - 4/9/14 at 3:03pm

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post #112 of 134

Yes you're absolutely correct in terms of the OS choice muddying the waters. They probably would have to spin off a new converged OS that takes the best from both iOS and OS X.

 

1) I think you're being way too optimistic with the clock speed for this concept though, this is Apple we're talking about! :) They push for ultimate efficiency and their upgrade cycles would likely take care of 2GHz & beyond. A vocal minority? tend to feel the first gen of any new Apple product is lacking something (I don't for the record. I dive right in and upgrade with each key development). I wouldn't be surprised if a product such as this did land with 1.4GHz, 1GB RAM & 32GB of storage to be honest!! Haha :lol:

 

2) I remember small details from those trackpad/keyboard patents, they would fit very nicely indeed!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


I certainly wouldn't be surprised if that happened but I think they'd have to lock down a "desktop" OS pretty tight to keep it from being a possibility. I would hope they would have some semi-hidden setting that would allow this.

If they aren't going to allow access to user-installed Apps they might finally get rid of Finder, Terminal, and rely much more heavily on iCloud, as you state. I could see the Desktop being the only "folder" users get access to. If any of that is true I think calling it a Mac or OS X would be a bad move. Not only does it add to the confusion between both Mac types but it also gives the Chicken Littles more reason to believe in a plunging firmament….Not that it matters, even if they named it OS Y and issued a statement saying that "Macs are the trucks of the computer world and so we understand that you need certain tools not available in OS Y" they would still fear the worst.
1) I'm thinking it would be clocked quite a bit higher than 1.4GHz. Over 2Ghz is what I'd expect.

2) Those trackpad and keyboard patents fit in very nicely hear.
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post #113 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazabrit View Post

I have to disagree, I don't think you'd be able to install anything outside of the Mac App Store. The APIs/sandbox in the MAS are the key as they're all designed and pre-approved by Apple so they can guarantee it will work and offer a smooth experience for the customer. Apps outside of that system could be incompatible with the architecture and wouldn't translate.]I literally have no idea what they would call the OS or whether they would spin it off (again) but I would lean towards the Mac OS X side of things due to the inclusion of the MAS 1wink.gif

If they did go this route I would expect to see:
* 12" Retina Display[/CONTENTEMBED]
* A8/A9 64-bit Processor clocked between 1.4GHz & 1.9GHz[/CONTENTEMBED]
* 4GB RAM
* ULTRA Ultra thin laptop (likely with very little port support)
* 24 hour battery life
* Non clickable touchpad design due to space constraints[/CONTENTEMBED]
* Some kind of new keyboard technology to reduce the size (leaving space for an adequate battery)
* New developments in OS X/iOS for further compatibility (iCloud file developments, iOS to OS X AirDrop etc)


Good points! I think they will have to offer an SD card slot, and USB 2/3.

A little OT, but Apple is going to need to do something about the Lightening Connector -- If they don't, Europe is going to force MiniUSB on us. What I'd like to see is make Lightening both USB 2 and USB 3 compatible, then offer free licensing of the patent.


PS - it was a pisser to edit your post -- what's with all the embeds?

Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

That's how envision it, too. They'd likely make it very easy for developers and for customers if it shows up on MAS it'll work on your machine.
My questions are: If they go this route…
  • … will they still allow app installations that are downloaded outside MAS? (I would hope so)
  • … will they still call it Mac OS X or create a new name to help differentiate it? (MS has shown that using Windows for everything can be harmful).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Interesting questions ...


I suspect they will allow app installs outside of MAS.


The OS name depends on whether Apple wants to differentiate or consolidate -- I suspect the latter, to appeal to developers and users.
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post #114 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazabrit View Post

1) I think you're being way too optimistic with the clock speed for this concept though, this is Apple we're talking about! 1smile.gif They push for ultimate efficiency and their upgrade cycles would likely take care of 2GHz & beyond.

You might be right but I'd personally bet on it being faster than in an iDevice due to the extra load and utility it would have as a notebook.

Note that the Galaxy S4 has a 1.9 GHz CPU and the Galaxy S5 has a 2.45 Ghz CPU. Note that Samsung is a good measure of spec restraint but the S5 does have great battery life according to AnandTech's review. The Galaxy S5 does have 10.78 Whr battery which is getting close to 2x the capacity as the iPhone 5S's 5.96 Whr battery, but the battery life isn't poor with that CPU and comparing it to the 11.6" MBA which has a whooping 38 Whr battery I think the CPU increase would improve performance nautically and not be an issue for the size of the chassis (I'm assuming the battery capacity would be at least halved) with most of the power likely going to the display.

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post #115 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


Or, an inexpensive laptop running OSX optimized for 64-bit ARM -- a keyboard, touchpad, standard I/O ports and non-touch screen ...

Less expensive (no Intel tax) than a MacBook Air – more powerful than an iPad.

Run native iOS apps concurrently with native OS X apps.

Faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound.

Target a price range of $600-$800 -- I'm really starting to get jazzed about this!

Again (thinking back to my original post) I ask you...Why?  why does this netbook/ios/osx laptop do that the Macbook Air does not?  Is it really price?  Then if Apple does this, it will be underpowered for most people who want such a thing and will complain.  What do you really want in a mobile computing experience and what is wrong with the current line-up?  is it really price?  is it that you want a device that runs iOS and OSX together?  Why?  why is that so important?  You have yet to give anyone on this forum a legitimate reason why other than you want one.  If price is really the biggest concern, then why is that important?  because you want to upgrade every year?  isn't that extremely wasteful?  if i had even a Macbook that could run iOS apps (not that i'd want that because the UI is a totally different animal altogether and would be pointless) I would default to the Macbook over the iPad.  Yeah, a single device would be great but I just don't see a clear solution out there.  Not that Apple isn't working on something like this, but I just don't see how a product like this would be more successful over what's currently out there.

 

So let's say this device comes to be.  It's going to be less powerful than a macbook (any model) and more powerful (probably speed-wise) than an iPad.  What practical real-world use-case do you have that this device would do better than what's currently available?

post #116 of 134

Haha! Apologies, I have no idea what's going on with the embeds! :)

 

I'd love an SD Card slot but I just can't see it personally. I'm not sure what architecture & licensing issues (due to Intel's involvement) are involved but I imagine Thunderbolt and Lightning would be the perfect combination for a product like this. Dreaded adapters would be needed though ;) 

 

I HATE to bring up Samsung in this discussion but I happen to think they got one thing right (only one) when they cloned the MacBook air and that's the 'foot' at the back of their ultra book design leading into a much thinner enclosure. This is the kind of technique that would suit an ARMBook IMO albeit much smaller due to minimal/small ports!

 

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post #117 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Or, an inexpensive laptop running OSX optimized for 64-bit ARM -- a keyboard, touchpad, standard I/O ports and non-touch screen ...


Less expensive (no Intel tax) than a MacBook Air – more powerful than an iPad.


Run native iOS apps concurrently with native OS X apps.


Faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound.


Target a price range of $600-$800 -- I'm really starting to get jazzed about this!
Again (thinking back to my original post) I ask you...Why?  why does this netbook/ios/osx laptop do that the Macbook Air does not?  Is it really price?  Then if Apple does this, it will be underpowered for most people who want such a thing and will complain.  What do you really want in a mobile computing experience and what is wrong with the current line-up?  is it really price?  is it that you want a device that runs iOS and OSX together?  Why?  why is that so important?  You have yet to give anyone on this forum a legitimate reason why other than you want one.  If price is really the biggest concern, then why is that important?  because you want to upgrade every year?  isn't that extremely wasteful?  if i had even a Macbook that could run iOS apps (not that i'd want that because the UI is a totally different animal altogether and would be pointless) I would default to the Macbook over the iPad.  Yeah, a single device would be great but I just don't see a clear solution out there.  Not that Apple isn't working on something like this, but I just don't see how a product like this would be more successful over what's currently out there.

So let's say this device comes to be.  It's going to be less powerful than a macbook (any model) and more powerful (probably speed-wise) than an iPad.  What practical real-world use-case do you have that this device would do better than what's currently available?

I am looking at this from the perspective of an AAPL shareholder rather than as a potential customer (though I will likely buy one).


I don't need this, but it offers Apple the potential to earn a good profit in a sector of the marketplace in which they don't currently participate.

It would eliminate, or at least reduce, the $1,000 Apple price umbrella for non-tablet mobile.

It could potentially dominate the non-tablet mobile OS market setting a bar that could not be met by Windows, Chrome or any tablet OS.


To my mind, those are 3 pretty damned good reasons!
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post #118 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


I am looking at this from the perspective of an AAPL shareholder rather than as a potential customer (though I will likely buy one).


I don't need this, but it offers Apple the potential to earn a good prof in a sector of the marketplace in which they don't currently participate.

It would eliminate, or at least reduce, the $1,000 Apple price umbrella for non-tablet mobile.

It could potentially dominate the non-tablet mobile OS market setting a bar that could not be met by Windows, Chrome or any tablet OS.


To my mind, those are 3 pretty damned good reasons!

So basically you don't have a legitimate reason other than the bottom line.  that's completely the opposite of how apple works.  They look for a need and a solution to that need first...then enter the market at a competitive level.

 

Lot's of how Apple prices things are in a way self-inflicted.  Like the $100 up-charges for storage on the iPad for example.

post #119 of 134

Yep, they definitely 'could' clock an ARMBook that high and if they used a larger battery like you pointed out (one that is still way smaller than the MBA) then it would be a win win.

 

To try and address some of the 'Whys' as to this product's potential existence:

* Even thinner & lighter (beyond what is possible with current architecture)

* ARM/A Chips are developing at a faster rate (due to strong competition?)

* Massive potential with Imagination graphics chips

* Very little power usage

* Greatly increased battery life

* The Mac App Store caters for everything in terms of the regular joe? (Final Cut X, iWork, iLife, Evernote, Browser etc). I happen to need the grunt/Intel architecture for video editing at the moment but who knows what Apple has up their sleeve. They already demonstrated their hardware + software optimisation skills with the Mac Pro as it cuts through 4K like butter.

* Keyboard & trackpad works better/is preferable for a lot of productivity tasks. The laptop concept is still viable but can improve based on lessons learnt/technologies from the new platforms.

* Price is a real factor but I'm not convinced Apple would low ball. They're more likely to include new components such as the retina display whilst meeting a slightly lower price point ($899?).

* Probably 100 things we can't imagine

5-8" MultiTouch Mini Tablet would go down a treat if you're reading!
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5-8" MultiTouch Mini Tablet would go down a treat if you're reading!
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post #120 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I am looking at this from the perspective of an AAPL shareholder rather than as a potential customer (though I will likely buy one).



I don't need this, but it offers Apple the potential to earn a good prof in a sector of the marketplace in which they don't currently participate.


It would eliminate, or at least reduce, the $1,000 Apple price umbrella for non-tablet mobile.


It could potentially dominate the non-tablet mobile OS market setting a bar that could not be met by Windows, Chrome or any tablet OS.



To my mind, those are 3 pretty damned good reasons!
So basically you don't have a legitimate reason other than the bottom line.  that's completely the opposite of how apple works.  They look for a need and a solution to that need first...then enter the market at a competitive level.

Lot's of how Apple prices things are in a way self-inflicted.  Like the $100 up-charges for storage on the iPad for example.

I have been a customer, reseller, co-developer, supplier, developer, observer and shareholder of Apple spanning almost 36 years – I think I understand how Apple works.
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
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"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
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