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Apple 'considered' buying mobile payment firm Square, but Google deal seen as more likely - Page 2

post #41 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilution View Post

I can't see Square being a worthwhile investment unless they have some IP that Apple can't find an alternative for and Square wouldn't licence. Considering there are other companies doing the same thing and Square aren't suing, I'm guessing the IP is elsewhere and Square just licence it themselves.

All Apple need to do is package their version of PayPal Here, make it work nicely and they'll be away. If they could do a tie in with PayPal so you could iMoney to a PayPal account and vice versa, they'd have it all sewn up.
I wonder if we'll be saying "all Apple needs to do is..." this time next year.
post #42 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post


I don't think so. I see Square everywhere I go. I don't see another payment system anywhere. Every vendor I talk to about it is happy with it. Having it fall into Google's hands rather than Apple's hands would be a major shift. So yes, the implications are mind boggling.

 

Hmmmm... now you change the use of your term "mind boggling".

 

Makes me wonder.

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post #43 of 127
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Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

yeah I don't get why people are so eager to see Google buy everything up. I figured Apple would never acquire Nest because they don't need the hardware expertise and probably weren't interested in having Tony Fadell back. But if Apple was looking at Square there's obviously something they felt was valuable. And in the current climate you're not going to get a company for cheap. So you either pay up or someone else will.

That's basically it. Apple doesn't need $200 billion, which they will have by the end of the year. I'd much rather they spend some of that on companies than throw it down the black hole of share repurchases, which is money burnt,.
post #44 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Hmmmm... now you change the use of your term "mind boggling".

Makes me wonder.

I'm just giving some reasons for it. Nothing to make a big deal of on your part, really! I mean, if this is all you've got, then you're wasting it on this.

But for your sake, I'll explain it further since you didn't understand what I was saying, and why the use in both posts was about the same thing.

It's mind boggling that Apple would need to do something that has already been done, and that they could get, if they wanted to, whereas, by letting it go, Google would get it instead.

It's the entire concept that's mind boggling. It doesn't even need to be applied to this particular situation.
post #45 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Apple would be crazy not to acquire Square, especially with Cook suggesting one of the reasons for Touch ID was getting into the mobile payments space.

Or Apple just does it's own payment system, or buys a company that does something similar for a fraction of the cost.  Why buy a company at their highest point?  8 Billion is quite a bit.

 

That said- it's way more valuable than WhatsApp.  Especially at 40% the price.  And def. twice as good as Nest.

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post #46 of 127
I'm glad to see @melgross posting more often.

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post #47 of 127
I doubt Apple would pay that much for a card reader company, Square is a brand and process thru others. Apple has iBeacon wireless technology without using card reader, the key is customer experience, ease of use and security for Apple products. Apple could achieve all and better than Square, Square seems like an intern solution on iPayment vision for Apple, let Google burn another shareholder's 8 billions in the name of "innovation"
post #48 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post


I'm just giving some reasons for it. Nothing to make a big deal of on your part, really! I mean, if this is all you've got, then you're wasting it on this.

But for your sake, I'll explain it further since you didn't understand what I was saying, and why the use in both posts was about the same thing.

It's mind boggling that Apple would need to do something that has already been done, and that they could get, if they wanted to, whereas, by letting it go, Google would get it instead.

It's the entire concept that's mind boggling. It doesn't even need to be applied to this particular situation.

 

All I've got.

 

This from a guy that believes that Apple doesn't have the ability to do it's own payment system. That it's "mind boggling".

 

I guess Apple should have just sold the other guy's computers, used the other guy's mobile os, used the other guy's mobile phone etc. etc. etc.

 

Give me a break.

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post #49 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

Or Apple just does it's own payment system, or buys a company that does something similar for a fraction of the cost.  Why buy a company at their highest point?  8 Billion is quite a bit.

That said- it's way more valuable than WhatsApp.  Especially at 40% the price.  And def. twice as good as Nest.
Why do it? To stop somebody else from doing it, that why.
post #50 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilution View Post
 

All Apple need to do is package their version of PayPal Here, make it work nicely and they'll be away. If they could do a tie in with PayPal so you could iMoney to a PayPal account and vice versa, they'd have it all sewn up.

Ichan has been pushing for eBay to split up PayPal.  Last I heard just 20% to an IPO.  But I would think you get get Paypal for around $10bn.  They have a $2bn Ebita.  Of course- I've only looked at purchasing companies with 10-200k ebita... so this is quite a bit above my head.  :\

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post #51 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob53 View Post

Does Square own any patents or would this purchase only give them customers? If the latter, then $8B is crazy.

They've already implemented a working, elegant solution. It's easy to think a company like Apple could do the same but it all comes down to the staff they have to cover a particular area. Before they had MobileMe, it would be easy to suggest that they could do it themselves rather than buy the DropBox team but look how it turned out doing it in-house.

Look at the features of Square's POS system, how long would it take Apple to build, test and deploy all that:

https://squareup.com/features

The supplementary hardware is all designed for iPad.

They currently process $15b of transactions per year (excluding Starbucks for some reason):

https://squareup.com/news/releases/2013/square-reinvents-the-register-with-square-stand

"While Square usage continues to grow on smartphones, it is growing at a faster rate on iPads: iPad customers now represent nearly 50% of total payments processed by Square. The average payment volume processed by these customers is more than double the average volume processed by Square customers using smartphones."

$8b is a lot to spend because they'd only make 2.5% of the transactions as gross profit, although they could make some on the hardware too but Tim Cook blew $12b in a share buyback in 2 weeks. This certainly seems like a better way to be spending their cash as it has some growth potential. US retail alone topped $100b:

http://www.pwc.com/us/en/press-releases/2014/pwc-retail-consumer-ma-deal-press-release.jhtml

That's a good recurring revenue stream as they make money even when customers buy other products.

Touch id is just one part of the payment system and they can add support in themselves. Everywhere you see a Square stand, they'll support touch id payments.
post #52 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Many stay for years. That's all Apple needs. They aren't needed forever. And once a company is established, with technology that works, it isn't the founder that's needed anyway, because Apple has a different direction for that company than the founder did as an independant factor. Sometimes, keeping the founder is a hinderance.

Many stay for years? Huh.

Agree with the basic premise of your post tho. Apple may not need (or want) most of 'em after the deal is done and the tech absorbed.
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post #53 of 127
I'd like to buy physical goods with my phone and my fingerprint, and maybe a password. In other words, just like how I buy digital goods.

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post #54 of 127
I know 4 friends with business that use Square now.

The only thing they have of worth is the customer base who already is using iPads, iPhones and iPod touches to interface with the product.

Apple's customers.

I can't imagine they have any technology Apple could not replicate. Its a credit card reader with syncing. Its piggy backs off the iPhones wireless for christ sake.

If Apple made a better product, they just might switch if the hardware costs to dont set them back.
post #55 of 127
If Apple wants a payment system, they should buy an already established one. I feel like Apple is trying to expand too far out. Instead, buy Square or something similar and just integrate it. Trying to build their own may not work out or take a while to gain traction
post #56 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I'm glad to see @melgross posting more often.

Thanks!
post #57 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

All I've got.

This from a guy that believes that Apple doesn't have the ability to do it's own payment system. That it's "mind boggling".

I guess Apple should have just sold the other guy's computers, used the other guy's mobile os, used the other guy's mobile phone etc. etc. etc.

Give me a break.

You're making up what I said. Where did I say that "Apple doesn't have the ability to do its own payment system"? I didn't say that anywhere. You're having a bad day.1hmm.gif
post #58 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Nope! This would transfer all of the good will Apple has received from companies and individuals using Square with Apple products to Google. Bad idea. If Google moved everything g to Android, no matter what people here think of Android, all of those companies and individuals would eventually have to move from Apple products to Google related products, which is likely one major reason why Google might buy this. It would be a seismic shift. Right now, Apple is the one moving into the payments area through Square, but that will end. And when will Apple,s own solution be ready? Who knows?

But Square's is simple, easy and elegant.

From a business owner's perspective I think it has been unwise of Square to only develop for iOS. Unless there are overriding security concerns. They should also extend their product to Android. One never knows when a bidding war might break out.

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post #59 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


From a business owner's perspective I think it has been unwise of Square to only develop for iOS. Unless there are overriding security concerns. They should also extend their product to Android. One never knows when a bidding war might break out.

They support Android- feature sets are identical for Android and iPhone.  The only thing that has more options are iOS for iPad.

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post #60 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post


You're making up what I said. Where did I say that "Apple doesn't have the ability to do its own payment system"? I didn't say that anywhere. You're having a bad day.1hmm.gif

 

I just thought I'd follow your lead.

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post #61 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

They've already implemented a working, elegant solution. It's easy to think a company like Apple could do the same but it all comes down to the staff they have to cover a particular area. Before they had MobileMe, it would be easy to suggest that they could do it themselves rather than buy the DropBox team but look how it turned out doing it in-house.

Look at the features of Square's POS system, how long would it take Apple to build, test and deploy all that:

https://squareup.com/features

The supplementary hardware is all designed for iPad.

They currently process $15b of transactions per year (excluding Starbucks for some reason):

https://squareup.com/news/releases/2013/square-reinvents-the-register-with-square-stand

"While Square usage continues to grow on smartphones, it is growing at a faster rate on iPads: iPad customers now represent nearly 50% of total payments processed by Square. The average payment volume processed by these customers is more than double the average volume processed by Square customers using smartphones."

$8b is a lot to spend because they'd only make 2.5% of the transactions as gross profit, although they could make some on the hardware too but Tim Cook blew $12b in a share buyback in 2 weeks. This certainly seems like a better way to be spending their cash as it has some growth potential. US retail alone topped $100b:

http://www.pwc.com/us/en/press-releases/2014/pwc-retail-consumer-ma-deal-press-release.jhtml

That's a good recurring revenue stream as they make money even when customers buy other products.

Touch id is just one part of the payment system and they can add support in themselves. Everywhere you see a Square stand, they'll support touch id payments.

Exactly the point I was making, though you fleshed it out extremely well. Somehow, some people think that all Apple has to do is snap their corporate fingers, and it will appear. While Apple can do this, if they want to, it's a major investment in time. Just like they buy other smaller companies so they won't have to invest the time, they could do that here.

But here, there is a leader in the field with actual income coming in, and a great deal of growth potential along with continued industry leadership (which is why the price would be so high). So far, paypal's own service and readers have been flat.
post #62 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

From a business owner's perspective I think it has been unwise of Square to only develop for iOS. Unless there are overriding security concerns. They should also extend their product to Android. One never knows when a bidding war might break out.

Have you not been following Apple ]['s (it's such a pain to type that) posts? Android users are too broke to even pay attention. 1wink.gif
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post #63 of 127
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Originally Posted by dmarcoot View Post

I know 4 friends with business that use Square now.

The only thing they have of worth is the customer base who already is using iPads, iPhones and iPod touches to interface with the product.

Apple's customers.

I can't imagine they have any technology Apple could not replicate. Its a credit card reader with syncing. Its piggy backs off the iPhones wireless for christ sake.

If Apple made a better product, they just might switch if the hardware costs to dont set them back.

Read Marvin's post.

Everyone here should read Marvin's post.
post #64 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

They support Android- feature sets are identical for Android and iPhone.  The only thing that has more options are iOS for iPad.

That's what I get for commenting on a subject about which I know almost nothing. Thanks for the info.

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post #65 of 127
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Originally Posted by melgross View Post

.....income coming in....

Have you been socializing with Android users? lol.gif
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post #66 of 127
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Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

From a business owner's perspective I think it has been unwise of Square to only develop for iOS. Unless there are overriding security concerns. They should also extend their product to Android. One never knows when a bidding war might break out.

It's true. But over the years, though less so now with the latest OS upgrade, Android hasn't been stable enough for this purpose. And the hardware hasn't been as good. For the most part, that's still true.

And, of course, a company's philosophy has be be regarded as well. Many developers just develop for one platform. Don't forget that iOS devices have a connector that's much more useful than the USB connector on other OS devices too. Not that that's needed here, but still...

iOS is also much more secure than Android, though it's not perfect.
post #67 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

I just thought I'd follow your lead.

Good luck on that. My day has been great.
post #68 of 127

... and now it's okay to question Tim Cook's decision making?

 

Hmmmmm...

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post #69 of 127
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Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Have you been socializing with Android users? lol.gif

Ah, no comment!
post #70 of 127
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Originally Posted by melgross View Post


Good luck on that. My day has been great.

 

So has mine.

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post #71 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

... and now it's okay to question Tim Cook's decision making?

Hmmmmm...

It's always been ok, just as it was ok to question that of Jobs, who made some questionable calls.
post #72 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post


It's always been ok, just as it was ok to question that of Jobs, who made some questionable calls.

 

Oh, I know it's okay... but you sure as hell wouldn't believe that for a minute after reading a few threads on AI.

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post #73 of 127
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Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Ah, no comment!

That's not a 'no' lol.gif
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post #74 of 127
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Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Oh, I know it's okay... but you sure as hell wouldn't believe that for a minute after reading a few threads on AI.

Yeah, we can agree on that. I find it to be true in a lot of places, not just on Apple boards. That's is, not questioning the "leader" of any particular organization that has a fan base. You should go to RED's site, sheesh! Just question a feature, and not only are you insulted by the fans there, which are a higher percentage than even here, but the owner himself comes on and insults you!
post #75 of 127
Jack would make an excellent addition to the Apple e team.
post #76 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

That's not a 'no' lol.gif

No comment.
post #77 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


Why do it? To stop somebody else from doing it, that why.

 

That's got to be the worst reason for buying any company. So you think that they should drop $8Billion (and contrary to popular belief, 8bill is a lot of money in anyone's book, including Apple's) on a company that will hang around the company's neck, swallowing resources until they can sell it for a fraction of what they bought it for?

 

When folk press Apple to drop huge amounts of money on companies because everyone else is doing it, they forget one thing: Apple doesn't buy companies for their products, it buys companies for their talent and expertise. I remember when Apple bought PA Semi, and folk thought it was for the PowerPC chips they were working on. 

 

What happened next?

 

They dumped PPC and moved to Intel. What they wanted from PA Semi was expertise in power-efficient mobile processors.

 

Did Apple buy Anobit so they could make memory chips, or did they buy them for their expertise in extending the life of NAND chips?

 

When Apple bought Authentec, did they just stick their product on the iPhone? No, they used Authentec's talent and expertise to build a kick-arse biometric reader that will form the basis of their payment system.

 

This is the simple question that folk fail to ask when wondering why Apple hasn't bought this company or that company: Is there any expertise here that Apple doesn't already have?

 

They aren't interested in anything Square makes, because Square doesn't actually make anything; they resell Apple iPads. Yes, they have a nice line in payments, but that doesn't come anywhere close to the half billion credit cards that Apple already has on record.

 

Square is great, I'm sure, but there are other payment systems (you can buy them at your local Apple store) that are great too.

 

If Apple hasn't bought Square already, then they don't think that they have a particular skill that the company needs.

 

I think there's a bigger chance that Apple would have bought Burberrry, just to get hold of their CEO.

post #78 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post


Yeah, we can agree on that. I find it to be true in a lot of places, not just on Apple boards. That's is, not questioning the "leader" of any particular organization that has a fan base. You should go to RED's site, sheesh! Just question a feature, and not only are you insulted by the fans there, which are a higher percentage than even here, but the owner himself comes on and insults you!

 

... and, to tell you the truth, my initial reaction to the sale of Square would be for Apple to buy it. Maybe Cook is too concerned about the purchase price, which is hard for me to believe because, from everything I have read, he is a long range planner.

 

I guess that's the question to ask...   Why would Cook/Apple grow soft on the idea of buying Square?

 

Does Apple already have a system nearing completion and Square doesn't fit in with that vision? That would be my first guess.

 

Is Tim Cook just making a bad decision? Honestly, I've never felt comfortable with Cook as a long term planner/innovator.

 

Is it the price? Is Cook tripping over dollars to pick up dimes (see what I did there)?

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post #79 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Oh, I know it's okay... but you sure as hell wouldn't believe that for a minute after reading a few threads on AI.
I suppose it's one of those things where people are OK when the criticizing is over something they don't agree with/like (e.g. iPhone 5C).
post #80 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


That's what I get for commenting on a subject about which I know almost nothing.

Hey- I do it all the time! :lol:

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