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post #81 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

That's assuming Steve's "editing" was alway right. We're not there so we don't know if there were good things Steve shot down and bad things he approved. And let's not forget that Steve initially faught porting iTunes to Windows, videos on iPods, an App Store for the iPhone, etc. In all those cases he has to be pushed and persuaded that it was the right idea. So this idea that Steve always new best is a fallacy. As far as Ive goes, there is now way he could become good in this role if he only has one foot in or didn't have total control. Now he has that control. And if he fails it's all in him and he has to take the fall for it. Cook gave him the responsibility, now he needs to own it.

 

Actually, that's part of what made Apple so successful. If an idea was so darned good that it survived such "editing" by Jobs, then it was practically guaranteed to be a success; in part because it was such a worthwhile idea, in part because those who thought it was a good idea kept after it, and in part because those who had the idea had to keep polishing and improving it to get Steve to accept it. If any old half-baked idea could get through, the resulting products will be half-baked, like Samsung phones. ;)

post #82 of 118

Well I, for one, love iOS 7. Always have. It took me less than half an hour to get used to it. When I went back to using my iPhone 3GS which was running 6, I annoyed at it for not being iOS 7. Apple does well in training users how to quickly get used to their OSes.

 

I think the rumor is a lot of hoopla over possibly nothing. Drama, drama. Who knows what really went down or whether there was really politics over UI at work here? Move along, folks. Seems like rumor bait to me.

post #83 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retrogusto View Post

Yeah. But my biggest complaint is the way the white borders with controls seem to be there when I don't want them, and not there when I do. For example, if I'm looking at a photo in landscape mode, bars at the top and bottom of the screen obscure part of the picture, and I don't know how to make them disappear. You'd think they'd vanish after a few seconds, but they don't. At least not usually. On the other hand, if I'm looking at a web page, the bar at the bottom that includes the "back" and "close" buttons seems to appear and disappear with some logic that I still don't understand, so if I want to close the page or go back a page, I have to fidget with it at random until the navigation bar appears. I'm sure there's some logic to the way it works, but it's not intuitive. Also, the way the controls obscure the frame when you're taking a picture makes it hard to frame pictures well. I normally think of Apple as being at the forefront of usability, but this stuff is definitely a step backwards from iOS 6. This may be due to the fact that I'm using iOS 7 on a 4S, but it still shouldn't be that bad.

That said, I was recently on vacation and borrowed a friend's old spare Samsung phone running Android from a few years ago, and was shocked at how unusable the thing was. Friends sometimes tease me for being pre-Apple, but I still can't believe how much worse it was than my already low expectations.
As others mentioned just tap the photo to remove the top/bottom bars.

In Safari you can tap the very bottom of the screen after the bottom and top bars go away and the navigation bar at the top and the navigation arrow/share/tabs buttons on the bottom show up immediately.
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post #84 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by alcstarheel View Post

As others mentioned just tap the photo to remove the top/bottom bars.

In Safari you can tap the very bottom of the screen after the bottom and top bars go away and the navigation bar at the top and the navigation arrow/share/tabs buttons on the bottom show up immediately.
Try tapping something at the bottom of the Safari window while the bar is hidden (like a link) without having to tap twice (or swipe). Oh wait, you can't. Genius! Such attention to detail!
post #85 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sporlo View Post


Try tapping something at the bottom of the Safari window while the bar is hidden (like a link) without having to tap twice (or swipe). Oh wait, you can't. Genius! Such attention to detail!

Works for me.

 

Maybe it's the Cheetos dust causing your issues?

post #86 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sporlo View Post

Try tapping something at the bottom of the Safari window while the bar is hidden (like a link) without having to tap twice (or swipe). Oh wait, you can't. Genius! Such attention to detail!
You can't which is fine with me. If the link isn't at the very bottom of the page (most aren't) then continue swiping until the link is above the "hidden" area. Pretty simple. Once you know it you're used to it.

It actually stops you from tapping those pesky ads that appear at the bottom of most web pages.
You can't spell appeal without Apple.
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You can't spell appeal without Apple.
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post #87 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky King View Post

My My.  this fellow known as Tallest Skil seems to have little to say except that he persistently and consistently disagrees with anyone who writes unfavorably about IOS-7 or Mavericks.  Further, his vocabulary seems a little limited.  "Shut up," is hardly a helpful comment.  I wonder, Tallest, can you accept the concept that not everyone likes whatever it is that you like about IOS-7 and Mavericks?  Can you accept the idea that a good number of long time Apple users are disheartened at the direction the company is taking?  Or are you simply related to Mr. Ive?

He gives your posts the due diligence they deserve.
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"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
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post #88 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Napoleon_PhoneApart View Post

Agreed. As a 58-year-old with several eye surgeries under my belt, I could use a little more contrast with my UIs, especially iOS 7.

I fear that the eye surgeries won't have had much effect if they were under your belt.
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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post #89 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sporlo View Post

I agree with those saying Apple no longer pays attention to detail. The details they care about are completely useless crap. My beef with iOS 7 is not that I just don't like how it looks. I've actually grown to appreciate some of the new aesthetics (keyword: some), but its problem is the ridiculous and pretentious changes to the actual UX and UI.

Now we're hearing that Ive just kicked out the guy in charge of the "Human Interface team"? The "Human Interface" is EXACTLY what's wrong with iOS 7.

So by your logic, kicking out the guy in charge of the human interface is a good thing.
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
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"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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post #90 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Sebastian View Post

This IU is horrible to the sensibilities of aesthetics...... It look like DOS 3.1 and the circle continues!!!!

At least it don haf the grammar of a jon sebastien
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"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
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post #91 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by poke View Post

I don't mind the look of iOS 7 but it's riddled with usability issues, whereas iOS 1-6 was fantastic usability-wise. Did iOS need an updated look? Sure, but it took a hit in usability in the process. I have no idea what's going on inside Apple but the fact is that two people who worked on iOS since its inception and who knew usability inside and out and were obviously responsible for the success of the project have left. The guy who has replaced them has no background in software at all. There are rumours of clashes. Taken together it all paints a bad picture.

I'm not going to pass judgement until I see iOS 8, but this whole sequence of events is disturbing.

Your post is pribbling, leptus-leering and dissembling.
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
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post #92 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by dorkus maximus View Post

I'm not ready to write off Apple just yet; but I too am afraid they will embrace theoretical design principles at the expense of real-world human needs and preferences. A pure white slab of a couch that rises instantaneously from the floor to meet my backside as I sit down may be theoretically pure--free from structural adornment, only there when it's time for it to function, and of a hue that is not biased toward any hue but is a combination of all--but such a couch would be uncomfortable to sit in, a pain to keep clean, and never used since I'd be too worried I'd wind up falling to the floor.

Human use isn't the final test of good design, it is the essential starting principle.

Your fear is unwarranted.
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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post #93 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sporlo View Post

Why impose this false dichotomy? I'm a critic of both of those guys.

Also, there's another false dichotomy in the idea that anyone who dislikes iOS 7 must be longing to return to the good old days of iOS 6. No no no. Is it not possible to make good improvements, yet in the process screw up a lot that never needed to be messed with? That's how I see iOS 7. I'm not looking to go back (in fact there's plenty to complain about in versions 5 & 6 too), I'm just frustrated at the silly new design paradigm (keyword: paradigm. I'm not complaining about specific aesthetics) that seems to be here to stay.

Either stop using Apple or stop posting vacuous comments.
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
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"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
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post #94 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post
 
Are you the biggest dick ever, as your user name suggests? It would explain your posts.

 

The last time I sold one of my computers, the buyer arrived knowing a fair bit about me. I asked how he knew so much and he replied that he did a Google search on my name to see if anyone had any experience buying stuff from me. A potential employer did the same thing, so he already knew more about me than what's on my resume. People outside group participants can see what we write.

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post #95 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

Either stop using Apple or stop posting vacuous comments.
You're right, all criticisms of iOS 7 are vacuous.
post #96 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

So by your logic, kicking out the guy in charge of the human interface is a good thing.
You're correct that I poorly explained my reasoning. It's my understanding that Christie would have just accepted the changes proposed by Ive, but that he doesn't want to keep going along with it, which is why he's out. Meaning Ive doesn't even have anyone to oppose him now.

Again, this is lots of speculating and probably oversimplified and possibly not even true. But that's my impression from what I've read.
post #97 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfc1138 View Post

Works for me.

Maybe it's the Cheetos dust causing your issues?
I'd be the one complaining to other people about getting food on their phones…
post #98 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by alcstarheel View Post

You can't which is fine with me. If the link isn't at the very bottom of the page (most aren't) then continue swiping until the link is above the "hidden" area. Pretty simple. Once you know it you're used to it.

It actually stops you from tapping those pesky ads that appear at the bottom of most web pages.
An example is this very website. I tap the quote button, it brings up a "Quote and Reply" button. I tap that. … I tap it again. Then I type my reply.

I don't deny its benefits, but in my experience I'm consistently bothered by how often it gets in my way. Yes I can swipe (in only 1 of 2 directions…) instead of tapping, but that's the same thing anyway: a hindrance to usability. This is surely not the way Apple used to design interfaces.
post #99 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

Cue the comments on how Ive will continue to ruin the Apple UI like he did with iOS 7....

What? That's what the trolls on other sites are saying....

Why is that trolling? There are many people who feel that way. I wouldn't go as far as how you put it but I hate what he's done with iOS. Forstall may have been a jerk but he got iOS right. Everyone claims to have disliked his fondness for skeuomorphic design but it made iOS very user friendly and charming.

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post #100 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by poke View Post

I don't mind the look of iOS 7 but it's riddled with usability issues, whereas iOS 1-6 was fantastic usability-wise. Did iOS need an updated look? Sure, but it took a hit in usability in the process. I have no idea what's going on inside Apple but the fact is that two people who worked on iOS since its inception and who knew usability inside and out and were obviously responsible for the success of the project have left. The guy who has replaced them has no background in software at all. There are rumours of clashes. Taken together it all paints a bad picture.

I'm not going to pass judgement until I see iOS 8, but this whole sequence of events is disturbing.

100% agree. Hopefully iOS 8 is better. 7 has been disliked by most people (except fanatics that never dislike anything.)

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post #101 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by oneaburns View Post

100% agree. Hopefully iOS 8 is better. 7 has been disliked by most people (except fanatics that never dislike anything.)

Source? You != most people.
post #102 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Source? You != most people.

While it is true most people I know don't care for the changes made in iOS 7, a quick search of google would show it's not been well-received. Would you rather I say "a significant amount of people" instead of "most?" Are we really getting that nit picky?

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post #103 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by oneaburns View Post

While it is true most people I know don't care for the changes made in iOS 7, a quick search of google would show it's not been well-received. Would you rather I say "a significant amount of people" instead of "most?" Are we really getting that nit picky?

You can say "many". Google searches aren't scientific. People usually post to complain. The avg consumer isn't going to post if they like something.
post #104 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by oneaburns View Post

100% agree. Hopefully iOS 8 is better. 7 has been disliked by most people (except fanatics that never dislike anything.)

100% disagree. 7 has been loved by everyone (except the usual Apple-haters that dislike everything Apple).
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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post #105 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by oneaburns View Post

While it is true most people I know don't care for the changes made in iOS 7, a quick search of google would show it's not been well-received. Would you rather I say "a significant amount of people" instead of "most?" Are we really getting that nit picky?

A quick search of Google tells you whatever you want to believe. The truth doesn't come into it.
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- African proverb
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post #106 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

A quick search of Google tells you whatever you want to believe. The truth doesn't come into it.

One of the harshest places on the internet is Twitter and a quick search there can locate an insurmountable number of tweets that praise iOS 7… Or maybe I created millions of accounts years ago and posted to them dozens of times a day each just so I could lie about other liking iOS 7. MWHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAhahahahhahaha

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post #107 of 118
Originally Posted by oneaburns View Post
Why is that trolling?

 

Because it’s a blatant lie.

 
There are many people who feel that way.

 

No. There are not.

 
…I hate…

 

Yep. You. Not “everyone” and not even “many”.

 
Everyone claims to have disliked his fondness for skeuomorphic design…

 

NOPE. 

 

Originally Posted by oneaburns View Post
While it is true most people I know

 

Yep. The people YOU know.

 
…a quick search of google would show its not been well-received.

 

 

A quick search of anything only shows how stupid people are for thinking it shows anything.

 
Would you rather I say "a significant amount of people" instead of "most?"

 

I’d rather you just stop lying entirely. Is that really so hard?

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #108 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Because it’s a blatant lie.

No. There are not.

Yep. You. Not “everyone” and not even “many”.

NOPE. 


Yep. The people YOU know.




A quick search of anything only shows how stupid people are for thinking it shows anything.

I’d rather you just stop lying entirely. Is that really so hard?


You perfectly illustrate groupthink and confirmation bias in this forum every day. It's sad that you can't recognize it and are so threatened by dissenting views that you bully even other Apple fans.

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post #109 of 118
Originally Posted by oneaburns View Post
You perfectly illustrate groupthink and confirmation bias in this forum every day. It's sad that you can't recognize it and are so threatened by dissenting views that you bully even other Apple fans.

 

Well, if you had any sort of proof whatsoever for your claims, then our “groupthink” wouldn’t be called fact.

 

Seems pretty simple.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #110 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by oneaburns View Post

You perfectly illustrate groupthink and confirmation bias in this forum every day. It's sad that you can't recognize it and are so threatened by dissenting views that you bully even other Apple fans.

You're the one who claimed that everyone hates iOS 7.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #111 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Well, if you had any sort of proof whatsoever for your claims, then our “groupthink” wouldn’t be called fact.

Seems pretty simple.

I don't have the time to search the internet for something that any rational person is aware of. You cannot tell me you have not seen more critical postings and reviews of this version of iOS than ones in the past.

Do you run this website? If you do then you're doing yourself a disservice by alienating viewers. I used to come here daily until I just couldn't stand the bullying of everyone anymore. The comments section is like Fox News. It doesn't matter how much a person loves Apple, if they say one negative word then they must be squashed by you and a few others here. That or they have to write a dissertation supporting their views. I mean, really, I need to go find a few hundred sources of instances in which iOS 7 is criticized for my observations to be valid to you? I'm not wasting my time. The only reason I've wasted this much is because I'm at home with a cold.

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post #112 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

You're the one who claimed that everyone hates iOS 7.

I said most and then changed that to "a significant amount" because it upset some sensitive people here. I mean, I don't want to upset the guy I saw posting here yesterday stating those guilt of leaking iphone 6 images should be executed.

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post #113 of 118
Originally Posted by oneaburns View Post
I don't have the time to search the internet for something that any rational person is aware of.

 

If any rational person was aware of it, there wouldn’t be any dissent whatsoever. You’re either too lazy to prove your point, which makes me too lazy to care about what you’d have to say, or you don’t have a point whatsoever because you’re wrong. Which you are.

 
You cannot tell me you have not seen more critical postings and reviews of this version of iOS than ones in the past.

 

More in intensity or more in volume? Why am I asking? I doubt either.

 
The comments section is like Fox News.

 

No, we tend to leave politics out of places they don’t belong.

 
I mean, really, I need to go find a few hundred sources of instances in which iOS 7 is criticized for my observations to be valid to you?

 

Nope. You need to back up your actual claims, not this goalpost moving you’ve just done.

 
I'm not wasting my time.

 

Then, again, I’m not wasting my time believing anything you say.

 

iOS 7 is at, what, 85% adoption now? I guess 85% is a “minority” portion of 100%.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #114 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

iOS 7 is at, what, 85% adoption now? I guess 85% is a “minority” portion of 100%.

 

I'm no longer sure adoption rates are indicative of satisfaction. After my experience with 7 my wife was going to stay with 6, but then there was some critical security patch and her choices were move to 7 or be vulnerable.

 

She now shows up as an iOS7 statistic but not because she preferred it per se.

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post #115 of 118

You guys sound ridiculous. I don't understand how one could be so offended by criticism, and I am personally a little confused by the unconditional praise, but that doesn't mean I want to silence anyone with something positive to say about iOS 7...

post #116 of 118
Two words: shift key. Ive is an industrial designer, not. UI designer.

One is Apple's biggest mistakes.
post #117 of 118
Originally Posted by johnfromberkeley View Post
Two words: shift key. Ive is an industrial designer, not. UI designer.

One is Apple's biggest mistakes.

 

I don’t get it.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #118 of 118

These stories are really tricky, because it is impossible to know what conversations occurred inside Apple. Any reaction to stories like this is going to be limited by definition.

 

In terms of the broader discussion about iOS design; I personally like iOS 7's design and I think it provides a great foundation to build on. The previous iOS design was also great, but it was aging very significantly. With iOS 7, Apple managed to strike a very careful balance where they produced something unquestionably new while also maintaining familiarity - this is a very difficult feat to achieve.

 

I'm also sure that the design will evolve over time, given end user feedback.

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