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Apple vs. Samsung docs reveal Galaxy Tab was a flop and Samsung knew it

post #1 of 165
Thread Starter 
Top secret sales data revealed during the Apple vs. Samsung trial this week shows that Samsung knew that the Galaxy Tab sales figures (and overall Android tablet sales) it and various market research groups had fed to the media were not even remotely true.

Galaxy Tab


Over the past three years, IDC, Gartner and Strategy Analytics have generated data on the global tablet market which specifically conveys the idea that Apple's iPad business has been dropping into minority market share while Samsung and other Android tablet makers have been shipping astronomical millions of units.

Samsung's internal documents indicate that the company's own public representation of its competitive position in the tablet market was not true, and that the company appears to have intentionally misled its own investors and the analysts covering its business with false statements about the health of its tablet sales.

Android 39% of Tablets 2012


A slide (above), from Samsung's June 2011 chief executive presentation on the 2012 market, presented the company's understanding of the tablet market as increasing from 10.4 million in 2010 to 28.3 million in 2011 and estimated 41.2 million in tablet sales for 2012.

But of the Total Addressable Market, Samsung portrayed all Android devices as being a minority in the tablet market dominated by Apple's iOS iPad. For 2012, Samsung's data estimated that Android would make up 39 percent of the tablet TAM. In terms of dollar revenue, Apple's iPad market share was even higher, reflecting real world results in the form of profits earned.

Samsung's U.S. Galaxy Tab sales were even behind the Nook



A second "top secret" Samsung document from February 2012 (below) detailed the "strong competition from both the high end iPad and low tiered [Amazon Kindle} Fire/[B&N] Nook" in the U.S. market. In tablet units, Samsung spelled out Galaxy Tab quarterly sales in the low hundreds of thousands, adding up to total 2011 U.S. Tab sales of around 1 million.

Samsung made a sliver of tablet unit sales and revenue in 2011


Samsung contrasted Apple's 2011 U.S. sales of 17.4 million iPads, Kindle Fire sales of 5 million units, and 1.5 million Nook sales. That means Samsung itself knew it was selling fewer Galaxy Tabs than even the low end Nook, an embarrassing fourth place sales position one wouldn't expect from the world's leading electronics company with top volume sales in other mobile devices.

Samsung's tablet sales were behind the entry level attempts of a couple of bookstores to bang out a tablet device they could sell as a way to develop a market for ebooks. And Samsung not only had a year head start over them in building Android tablets, but also had a decades long legacy of building Windows tablets and all kinds of other hardware.

Samsung wasn't on the ball



Globally, Apple sold over 32 million iPads in 2011, so Samsung's U.S. iPad numbers indicate that just over half of those were sold in the U.S. that year. Those 32 million iPads were also larger than the total number of tablets (28.3 million) Samsung had expected everyone to sell globally in 2011 in a document from the middle of that year.Samsung's tablet sales were behind the entry level attempts of a couple of bookstores to bang out a tablet device they could sell as a way to develop a market for ebooks

Samsung wasn't just unable to make a tablet device that consumers wanted to buy; it was actually asleep at the wheel, failing to fully respond to the iPad in part because its leadership didn't even anticipate how quickly the market for iPads was increasing.

In terms of revenue, Samsung was also well aware that Apple's iPad was eating everyone's lunch, collecting over $10 billion in iPad U.S. revenues that year while Samsung earned less than $560 million on its own tablet sales, nearly half as much as Amazon brought in (and then lost) during just during the winter quarter alone. Even the low priced Nook was beating Samsung in both tablet unit sales and in revenues.

Samsung's "quite smooth" tablet data spread by "researchers"



In early 2011, IDC's Loren Loverde made headlines by contradicting Steve Jobs' contention that iPad had claimed 90 percent of the tablet market in its first year. Instead, IDC insisted that Samsung by itself had taken a 17 percent share of the tablet market in the final quarter of 2010, based on Samsung's announcement that it had shipped 2 million Galaxy Tabs.

Neil Mawston, a director at Strategy Analytics, also repeated Samsung's 2 million figure for winter quarter 2010 tablet shipments, announcing that "the Samsung Galaxy Tab was the main driver of Android success," because it made up 2 million of the 2.1 million tablets that were said to have shipped with Android. Virtually all of them!

Strategy Analytics also assigned Samsung a 22 percent share of the entire tablet market, somehow reaching a different number than IDC even though both were working with just two significant numbers: Apple's officially reported iPad sales and Samsung's double-speak mumbling of an evasive answer given to analysts during an earnings call.

However, as the Wall Street Journal later reported, Samsung's "2 million" number for 2010 was merely shipments of initial inventory sell-in designed to fill the channel, not actual sales to actual buyers, a concept that has a casual nexus with the idea of a "market" one could have "share" in.

That 2 million figure was presented during Samsung's quarterly earnings call with investors, making the "quite smooth" slip not just misinformation for blogs to repeat, but a deception of the company's investors that led them to think that Samsung was enjoying strong tablet sales when it wasn't.

In fact, over the next year Samsung's entire U.S. tablet sales were on par with other major flops such as Microsoft's Zune and Surface, or Google's Honeycomb tablets, Google TV or Chromebook Pixel.

And as Samsung itself depicted in the above chart, it knew internally that in 2010, the full range of iPad competitors were barely a blip, rather than Samsung alone having the 17 to 22 percent share market researchers had advertised.

Galaxy Tab 2011 sales


Previous Samsung tablet sales documents (above) which leaked during the first trial in 2012 harmonize with the U.S. numbers Samsung presented in the documents above: across all of 2011, Samsung sold just under 1 million tablets in the U.S.

A White Box in the Bermuda Triangle



None of the major market research firms appear to have issued U.S. market share data for tablet sales since the iPad was released, preferring to instead publish global market figures that incorporate vast numbers of "white box" devices built by unnamed "other" companies in unspecified markets. This is a marked departure from their PC industry reports, which detail both U.S. and global sales.

Tim Cook


However, as noted by Apple's chief executive Tim Cook, there is no evidence among web usage stats or app sales that support the idea that vast numbers of unbranded tablets are eclipsing the iPad globally. Instead, iPad shows up in web logs as making up an astounding 84 percent of all tablet traffic.

"If there are lots of other tablets selling," Cook said on the subject, "I don't know what they're being used for. Because that's a pretty basic function: web browsing."

Instead, there is strong evidence supporting the idea that Apple's iOS continues to dominate as a mobile device platform, including Microsoft's decision to release Office as an exclusive title for the iPad first.

It also calls into question why IDC, Gartner and Strategy Analytics seem to carefully avoid mention of U.S. market share figures that would provide valuable insight into the domestic market for mobile apps and accessories and illuminate the threat iPads might pose to conventional PCs.

It certainly appears that these market researchers, just like every Android tablet manufacturer, doesn't want to talk about specifics because the facts have nothing good to say about the Android or Windows platforms that indirectly pay the bills of said market research groups.
post #2 of 165
It just goes to show what we all already know, Apple rocks! The rest are just business hacks.
post #3 of 165
"Galaxy Tab quarterly sales in the low hundreds of millions"!!!!
post #4 of 165
So if the tab range was a complete disaster and selling an embarrassing amount in the US then by showing it isn't Apple undermining their own argument on how it has lost billions in profit and irreparable harm?
post #5 of 165

> In fact, over the next year Samsung's entire U.S. tablet sales were on par with other major flops such as Microsoft's Zune and Surface, or Google's Honeycomb tablets, Google TV or Chromebook Pixel.

 

Only DED can out such gems !

 

Hat tip Sir !

post #6 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by singularity View Post

So if the tab range was a complete disaster and selling an embarrassing amount in the US then by showing it isn't Apple undermining their own argument on how it has lost billions in profit and irreparable harm?

 

Apple wants Samsung to stop using its technologies and designs. The lawsuit is an attempt to stop Samsung, or at least attach a price to stealing so it will slow down or stop. Apple has to argue that it has lost profits and/or that Samsung should be dinged for profiting illegally from Apple’s work. That’s how the patent system and courts work.  

post #7 of 165

I hope that was a joke.

post #8 of 165
Thanks again DED for a well researched post.

This question stands out for TL;DR crowd:
Quote:
It also calls into question why IDC, Gartner and Strategy Analytics seem to carefully avoid mention of U.S. market share figures that would provide valuable insight into the domestic market for mobile apps and accessories and illuminate the threat iPads might pose to conventional PCs.

I wonder if the bloggers and analytic teams also realize, that by their coercive misrepresentation of the markets, they may very well wake up some day and find their hero companies bankrupt. Thus depriving themselves of the very devices that they so desire and dote upon endlessly. You can't subsidize a product endlessly, losing millions in the process.

Denying the truth of the markets is dangerous, even if you're in the business of manipulating them. Allowing them to be manipulated is criminal.

Again, I don't understand Samsung's competitors in the PC/Android market why they are so docile in pointing out the unfair advantage that a convicted cheater is allowed to continue to harm their businesses. They have the most to lose in this fight, not Apple.
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post #9 of 165

This just goes to show that the perception of Android owning 80% of the smartphone market is a complete and utter lie. How can an OS with that much share have such low usage numbers? And no, I don't buy that bullsh*t argument of Android users changing their browser identifier or not using their phones to surf the web, that's nonsense!

post #10 of 165

Well done DED. Its time someone called out Samsungs lies!

post #11 of 165

Those years of Fandroid sheeps giving wonderful praises to their Samsung overlord, while knowing the Galaxy tablets were complete trash.

All the stores I walk into that have Galaxy Tabs show them gathering dust, not working, and simply just neglected.  The saddest ones are at the Costco stores in my area.  They place them fairly close to the entry of the warehouse, and each time I pass by it, not a soul in the area.

It's bad enough that Samsung tries to lie to everyone about it.  We know that's the only thing they do best.  What's really sad and pathetic, not to mention shameful, are the Fandroid kook-aid drinkers that always thought Samsung was the best-of-the-best.

How's that humble-pie tasting?

post #12 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

Apple wants Samsung to stop using its technologies and designs. The lawsuit is an attempt to stop Samsung, or at least attach a price to stealing so it will slow down or stop. Apple has to argue that it has lost profits and/or that Samsung should be dinged for profiting illegally from Apple’s work. That’s how the patent system and courts work.  

If as you say Samsung isn't selling them anyway, they're only dust magnets, where's the loss to Apple or the profit to Samsung they want a piece of?

/s
Edited by Gatorguy - 4/11/14 at 4:02am
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post #13 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supafly View Post

This just goes to show that the perception of Android owning 80% of the smartphone market is a complete and utter lie.

IDC claims that there were 284 million smartphones shipped last quarter.

But the only manufacturer that gives any number is Apple.

From IDC's website:

IDC's Worldwide Quarterly Mobile Phone Tracker® is built on the foundation of IDC's network of country-level mobile phone tracking services, and its bottom-up methodology delivers an accurate view of the mobile phone market from those closest to it.

Can they be trusted? Who knows. Don't they get paid for their data?

I think IDC tracks tablets as well... but we see what happens when a company actually presents their numbers...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Supafly View Post

How can an OS with that much share have such low usage numbers? And no, I don't buy that bullsh*t argument of Android users changing their browser identifier or not using their phones to surf the web, that's nonsense!

I think part of the problem is that any phone that runs a version of Android gets counted in these numbers.

That includes flagship Android phones.... and the ultra-cheap Android phones sold in parts of the world that barely have internet. Those low-end phone are replacing flip-phones and might only be used for voice and text.

I actually do believe that there are "smartphones" out in the world that run some version of Android but don't surf the web too much. So if you consider that... Android's market share looks less impressive.

It could be that 8 out of 10 smartphones sold today are running Android... that would be the 80% market share.

BUT... it could be that only 2 out of those 8 are actually used for apps and internet. Who knows.

There's obviously something going on, though.

That might explain why developers still focus on making apps for the iPhone with its 17% market share... while ignoring Android's 80% market share.

Clearly that 80% isn't all it's cracked up to be. It might a big number on paper... but it doesn't get the results.
post #14 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

Apple wants Samsung to stop using its technologies and designs. The lawsuit is an attempt to stop Samsung, or at least attach a price to stealing so it will slow down or stop. Apple has to argue that it has lost profits and/or that Samsung should be dinged for profiting illegally from Apple’s work. That’s how the patent system and courts work.  
Ah, so Apple doesn't really believe they're owed billions due to lost sales but they have to argue it that way because that's how patent trials work?
post #15 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post


IDC claims that there were 284 million smartphones shipped last quarter.

But the only manufacturer that gives any number is Apple.

From IDC's website:
 
IDC's Worldwide Quarterly Mobile Phone Tracker® is built on the foundation of IDC's network of country-level mobile phone tracking services, and its bottom-up methodology delivers an accurate view of the mobile phone market from those closest to it.

Can they be trusted? Who knows. Don't they get paid for their data?

I think IDC tracks tablets as well... but we see what happens when a company actually presents their numbers...
I think part of the problem is that any phone that runs a version of Android gets counted in these numbers.

That includes flagship Android phones.... and the ultra-cheap Android phones sold in parts of the world that barely have internet. Those low-end phone are replacing flip-phones and might only be used for voice and text.

I actually do believe that there are "smartphones" out in the world that run some version of Android but don't surf the web too much. So if you consider that... Android's market share looks less impressive.

It could be that 8 out of 10 smartphones sold today are running Android... that would be the 80% market share.

BUT... it could be that only 2 out of those 8 are actually used for apps and internet. Who knows.

There's obviously something going on, though.

That might explain why developers still focus on making apps for the iPhone with its 17% market share... while ignoring Android's 80% market share.

Clearly that 80% isn't all it's cracked up to be. It might a big number on paper... but it doesn't get the results.

You make some fair points. However, I have to ask one question. If Samsung are doing SO well and outselling iPhones like they claim, why on earth are they so scared to release actual sales numbers for the world to see? This post by DED is a classic example of why they don't. They're simply a bunch of liars. This is a case of fake it, before you make it.

post #16 of 165
If this the truth, and Samsung fudged the figures to its shareholders, then there is greater at stake. Firstly the stockmarket would collapse the shares, indictments may commence against those who lied and manipulated the figures and shareholders generallly wont be too pleased so a general cleaning of house of upper management would occur. the company would be turned upside down and the stockmarket would take a while to trust the company again. This doesnt really seem to happening so the truth and veracity of all this of it may never be known.
post #17 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by singularity View Post

So if the tab range was a complete disaster and selling an embarrassing amount in the US then by showing it isn't Apple undermining their own argument on how it has lost billions in profit and irreparable harm?

The article doesn't say who is presenting the evidence, Apple or Samsung. Apple, however, can use the information to show Samsung was copying Apple because it was desperate for sales.
post #18 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

The article doesn't say who is presenting the evidence, Apple or Samsung. Apple, however, can use the information to show Samsung was copying Apple because it was desperate for sales.

Also Apple doesn't have to show Samsung made a profit, only that Apple lost sales.
post #19 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark6051 View Post

If this the truth, and Samsung fudged the figures to its shareholders, then there is greater at stake. Firstly the stockmarket would collapse the shares, indictments may commence against those who lied and manipulated the figures and shareholders generallly wont be too pleased so a general cleaning of house of upper management would occur. the company would be turned upside down and the stockmarket would take a while to trust the company again. This doesnt really seem to happening so the truth and veracity of all this of it may never be known.

I would love it if the scenario you described came true. Lets hope.

post #20 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

The article doesn't say who is presenting the evidence, Apple or Samsung. Apple, however, can use the information to show Samsung was copying Apple because it was desperate for sales.
Obviously their desperation didn't work. 1biggrin.gif
post #21 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

Also Apple doesn't have to show Samsung made a profit, only that Apple lost sales.

If Sammy wasn't selling those Tabs they certainly wouldn't have been taking sales away from Apple. 1hmm.gif It does seem to be a very odd piece of evidence if it was Apple that wanted it entered.
Edited by Gatorguy - 4/11/14 at 4:59am
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post #22 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by singularity View Post

So if the tab range was a complete disaster and selling an embarrassing amount in the US then by showing it isn't Apple undermining their own argument on how it has lost billions in profit and irreparable harm?

This documentation illustrates the initial conditions under which, I'm betting, Apple will now go on to show how Samsung then scrambled to copy elements of iOS in an effort to close the gap with the iPad. Patience, patience. We'll get to that point soon enough.
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post #23 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark6051 View Post

If this the truth, and Samsung fudged the figures to its shareholders, then there is greater at stake. Firstly the stockmarket would collapse the shares, indictments may commence against those who lied and manipulated the figures and shareholders generallly wont be too pleased so a general cleaning of house of upper management would occur. the company would be turned upside down and the stockmarket would take a while to trust the company again. This doesnt really seem to happening so the truth and veracity of all this of it may never be known.

When the story was first reported a couple years ago Samsung executive Ms. Lee Young-hee clarified "those figures (2M in unit sales) don’t represent actual sales to consumers. Instead, they are the number of Galaxy Tab devices that Samsung has shipped to wireless companies and retailers around the world since product’s formal introduction in late September" according to a report by the Wall Street Journal. (Edit: In her comments, she used the terms “sell-in” to reflect Samsung’s sales to distributors and “sell-out” to reflect the distributors’ sales to consumers.)

This isn't a new story to Apple, Samsung investors, news media or long-time regular readers of AppleInsider.
http://appleinsider.com/articles/11/01/31/samsung_admits_its_ipad_rival_galaxy_tab_sales_were_actually_quite_small
Edited by Gatorguy - 4/11/14 at 7:38am
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post #24 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post

Thanks again DED for a well researched post.

This question stands out for TL;DR crowd:
I wonder if the bloggers and analytic teams also realize, that by their coercive misrepresentation of the markets, they may very well wake up some day and find their hero companies bankrupt. Thus depriving themselves of the very devices that they so desire and dote upon endlessly. You can't subsidize a product endlessly, losing millions in the process.

Denying the truth of the markets is dangerous, even if you're in the business of manipulating them. Allowing them to be manipulated is criminal.

Again, I don't understand Samsung's competitors in the PC/Android market why they are so docile in pointing out the unfair advantage that a convicted cheater is allowed to continue to harm their businesses. They have the most to lose in this fight, not Apple.

I'll bet the majority of analysts who excoriate Apple at every turn actually carry iPads and iPhones. Just like all those others who receive paid sponsorships from Samsung (Ellen Degeneres, David Beckham, David Ortiz, et el).
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post #25 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


If Sammy wasn't selling those Tabs they certainly wouldn't have been taking sales away from Apple. 1hmm.gif It does seem to be a very odd piece of evidence if it was Apple that wanted it entered.
 
Perception is reality

As is evidence in Samsung's advertising and of the third party market/anecdotal research, as well as just asking any of your friends, colleagues or anyone you meet who have purchased the tabs, the most common response from them is, "It's outselling Apple, [so it must be better]."

 

The same has been declared for Samsung's smartphones. 

 

Interesting that the iOS gets such significantly high internet usage with such a smaller market? 

 

Obviously, one is myth, the other math. And for the ignorant, myth outsells math.

post #26 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Powell View Post

Happy with my Note 10.1

Yes, you would be after Samsung/Google implemented a whole host of Apple innovations into the software that runs it. Even if it turns out that some of Apple's innovations are not patentable (i.e, if Samsung successfully contests the validity of some Apple patents) and therefore Samsung and Google are legally allowed to adopt Apple's innovations, the evidence seems to be mounting that it's Apple that is the innovation leader where it counts in this space and not Samsung.
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post #27 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

Apple wants Samsung to stop using its technologies and designs. The lawsuit is an attempt to stop Samsung, or at least attach a price to stealing so it will slow down or stop. Apple has to argue that it has lost profits and/or that Samsung should be dinged for profiting illegally from Apple’s work. That’s how the patent system and courts work.  

If as you say Samsung isn't selling them anyway, they're only dust magnets, where's the loss to Apple or the profit to Samsung they want a piece of?

/s

Ah, I see the Androidefender is back again....
post #28 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onhka View Post

As is evidence in Samsung's advertising and of the third party market/anecdotal research, as well as just asking any of your friends, colleagues or anyone you meet who have purchased the tabs, the most common response from them is, "It's outselling Apple, [so it must be better]."

The same has been declared for Samsung's smartphones. 

Interesting that the iOS gets such significantly high internet usage with such a smaller market? 

Obviously, one is myth, the other math. And for the ignorant, myth outsells math.

I'm not aware of anyone ever claiming even Samsung's entire lineup of tablets outsold any single iPad model. In addition if consumers weren't buying an iPad it wouldn't appear to be that they were buying a Samsung Tab instead. This report doesn't in any way help show Samsung stealing significant sales from Apple.
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post #29 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Ah, I see the Androidefender is back again....

And I see you're back with the one-liners on a subject I'll guess you'd say you have no opinion on anyway and didn't care about in the first place based on your recent responses. 1hmm.gif
Edited by Gatorguy - 4/11/14 at 5:34am
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post #30 of 165
Thanks, DED. Everyone except the trolls here have known what these numbers are confirming for us: That Samsung tablets are a joke. It was quite obvious when they stopped reporting volume shipments, and have refused to give out channel data.

Such evidence from the trial is worth its weight in gold. More than makes up for Shiller's sophomoric memo to the ad agency, or SJ's email about the 'holy war'.
post #31 of 165
THEY'RE ALL LACKAYS OF VILLAIN !


Not Only IDC, Gartner and Strategy Analytics but All Other, What You Call " Wall-Street-Related but World Widely Professional Reserch & Analystic Firms " Are SAME KIND OF KIN !!!!!!

They're ALL Working FOR THE SAKE OF VILLAIN !

Look at THIS !




Kantar Research U.K. Published Regularly Report on World-Wide Smart Phone Market Share Especialy Elaborating 12 Significant Countries and/or Regions in The World Respectively This January Wrapping Up The Entire Annual Result of 2013.

http://www.kantarworldpanel.com/global/News/news-articles/Android-ends-the-year-on-top-but-Apple-scores-in-key-markets/


But Oddly Enough, As You See This Table of SpreadSheet, However They Claimed They Had Researched 12 Countries/Regions Including " JAPAN ", OF COURSE JAPAN is One of The Most Significant Country in The World Not Only As Hi-Tech Parts Suppliers but As Mega-Consumption Mecca of Finished Goods, THERE'S NONE DESCRIPTION ABOUT JAPAN NOWHERE IN THE TABLE !

What's Happened ?

The REASON is

The Total Result of JAPAN in 2013 REALLY SEEMS

" ADVERSE TRUTH " to Them !!!

Because All The Pundits & Wall Street Pro Analysts Backed by VILLAIN HAVE INSISTED " Only in North America, Especially in U.S., i-Phone Sold As Well As Android Cheap Phones Geographically in The World.
So They Want to Say Android Cheap Phones Are Kicking i-Phone Out Of The Almost of ALL World's Significant Markets Only EXCEPT in U.S.

Kanter ALSO CONCLUDED THE SAME VIEW in SUMMARY OF TEXT.

Although They Cited About JAPAN's Rather Strong Tendency for i-OS Devices Very Lightly in Summary of Text, As You See in The Table THERE's NO TRUE CHART & FIGURES, NUMBERS about JAPAN.


TRUE CHART IS HERE :





If You Look at Annual Total Result of Smart Phone Market Share in JAPAN in 2013, VERY LOOK LIKE U.S.
Even Only This Fact Overturns LACKAYS of VILLAIN's Assertion, " i-Phone Sells As Well As Android Cheap Phones ONLY IN U.S. U.S. is Very Peculiar Region."

But MORE IMPORTANTLY, Look at This Chart !



This is The Chart which Shows The Market Share of i-Phone VS Android After NTT DoCoMo ( JAPAN's Biggest Carrier Equivalent to " China Mobile " in China ) Joined The Sales of i-Phone Since The End of September in 2013 EVENTUALLY AFTER LONG LONG STRUGGLE & TURMOIL OF SALES BECAUSE OF ABSENCE of i-Phone.

And This Tendency Keeps to Date.
That Means, i-Phone's Share ( in Smart Phone Market ) in JAPAN is NOW

Approximately 70% !


WHO SAID AT THE END OF 2012, " i-Phone Era is Over. Android PREVAIL NEXT YEAR in Japan. " HA, Ha !!!!!!
lol.giflol.giflol.gif
post #32 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


And I see you're back with the one-liners on a subject I'm sure you'll say you have no opinion on anyway and didn't care about in the first place. 1hmm.gif

Your regular pro-Android, pro-Samsung, pro-Google, anti-Apple posts in a pro-Apple forum are not worth much more than one line by way of response.

Here's a bonus second line: see above for my 'opinion.' 1cool.gif
post #33 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

When the story was first reported a couple years ago Samsung executive Lee Young-hee clarified "those figures (2M in unit sales) don’t represent actual sales to consumers. Instead, they are the number of Galaxy Tab devices that Samsung has shipped to wireless companies and retailers around the world since product’s formal introduction in late September" according to a report by the Wall Street Journal.

This isn't a new story to Apple, Samsung investors, news media or long-time regular readers of AppleInsider.
http://appleinsider.com/articles/11/01/31/samsung_admits_its_ipad_rival_galaxy_tab_sales_were_actually_quite_small

And thus began the great "shipped vs sold" meme.
post #34 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post

No... that voice in your head telling you that your nothing more than a worthless troll... is real! 1smoking.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Supafly View Post

 
You're a complete and utter moron! If you had a brain cell it would die of loneliness.


Alright kids... to the corner... both of you!  It's Time-Out for you two!

Nonsense. There is no equivalency between the two posts.
post #35 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


Ah, I see the Androidefender is back again....

No, this is not about defending Samsung. It's just logic. How could Apple claim billions in lost sales if Samsung's Tab sold so poorly? Money doesn't just disappear into thin air. It has to end up in someone's hands. If not Samsung's, then whose?

post #36 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheUnfetteredMind View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

When the story was first reported a couple years ago Samsung executive Lee Young-hee clarified "those figures (2M in unit sales) don’t represent actual sales to consumers. Instead, they are the number of Galaxy Tab devices that Samsung has shipped to wireless companies and retailers around the world since product’s formal introduction in late September" according to a report by the Wall Street Journal.

This isn't a new story to Apple, Samsung investors, news media or long-time regular readers of AppleInsider.
http://appleinsider.com/articles/11/01/31/samsung_admits_its_ipad_rival_galaxy_tab_sales_were_actually_quite_small

And thus began the great "shipped vs sold" meme.

No great 'meme' there. Just actual facts.

The two can be reconciled only with channel inventory data. Apple is the only company to provide that. Don't you wonder why....
post #37 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Your regular pro-Android not-anti-Google-enough-for-you, pro-Samsung, 1rolleyes.gif , anti-Apple 1rolleyes.gif posts in a pro-Apple forum are not worth much more than one line by way of response.

Here's a bonus second line: see above for my 'opinion.' 1cool.gif

You obviously don't read what I actually post then.
melior diabolus quem scies
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melior diabolus quem scies
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post #38 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Ah, I see the Androidefender is back again....
No, this is not about defending Samsung. It's just logic. How could Apple claim billions in lost sales if Samsung's Tab sold so poorly? Money doesn't just disappear into thin air. It has to end up in someone's hands. If not Samsung's, then whose?

Um... You do know that this lawsuit is more than just about tablets, right? Did you read Hauser's testimony? Any clue what device it dealt with? 1rolleyes.gif
post #39 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


I'm not aware of anyone ever claiming even Samsung's entire lineup of tablets outsold any single iPad model. In addition if consumers weren't buying an iPad it wouldn't appear to be that they were buying a Samsung Tab instead. This report doesn't in any way help show Samsung stealing significant sales from Apple.

I did not say, "outsold".

 

Quote: From this article
Over the past three years, IDC, Gartner and Strategy Analytics have generated data on the global tablet market which specifically conveys the idea that Apple's iPad business has been dropping into minority market share while Samsung and other Android tablet makers have been shipping astronomical millions of units.

 

Remember, Perception is Reality!

post #40 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supafly View Post

You make some fair points. However, I have to ask one question. If Samsung are doing SO well and outselling iPhones like they claim, why on earth are they so scared to release actual sales numbers for the world to see? This post by DED is a classic example of why they don't. They're simply a bunch of liars. This is a case of fake it, before you make it.

The estimates are that Samsung sold 82 million smartphones last quarter. It's gotta be somewhere in the ballpark.

But Samsung doesn't tell us which models those actually were.

All that anyone ever talks about are their flagship phones... Galaxy S, Galaxy Note, etc. And with good reason... those are nice phones that get a lot of attention. Those models are the face of the company. The image of Samsung. Their halo products.

But if I was to guess... I'd say that the bulk of their sales are actually made up of their much cheaper models... Galaxy Y, Galaxy Ace, Galaxy Duo, etc.... sold in places like China and India.

There's certainly nothing wrong with that.... but it's just not sexy to promote that fact.

Samsung stopped reporting actual numbers about 4 years ago for probably that reason. Now they only talk about certain milestones like this:

200 million Galaxy S since 2010

That makes for a nice headline... a big number... but there's not much of a story after that. So how many non-Galaxy S smartphones have they sold since 2010? That would be an even bigger number! But it's not sexy to talk about non-flagships.

Apple doesn't break down their numbers either. But all estimates are that Apple's sales are something like this:

85% - current model
10% - 2nd tier model
5% - 3rd tier model

In Apple's case... the newest and most expensive iPhone makes up an overwhelming majority of their smartphone sales. Sure... we don't have any hard proof of that.... but let's be real. Do we really think the 5C is outselling the 5S? Or that the 4S sold anywhere close to the 5 in its day? Hell no.

You'd think if Samsung was actually selling 30-40 million of their newest flagship phone every quarter... that they'd be shouting from the rooftops. Instead... they simply add up the cumulative sales of ALL the Galaxy S models for the last 4 years and print a headline.

Maybe Honda should add up all the sales of the Honda Accord since 1976. That would be a huge number 1smile.gif
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