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Apple's Tim Cook encourages US House to pass sexual orientation nondiscrimination act - Page 3

post #81 of 245
The topic is about a law that would only affect larger organizations, which typically have code of behavior, code of ethics, dress codes, etc. There are lots of different degrees of gayness. For example some people are gay and others are GAAAAY! If you want to work in the corporate world you are generally going to be expected to follow some accepted norms and represent your company in a businesslike and professional manner. If someone behaves in an extreme way such as catty, flirtatious or uses emphasized gay speaking characteristics and mannerisms, it will probably make many of the co-workers uncomfortable. So long as the person does their job and blends into the corporate culture, no one should care what they do on their own time.

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post #82 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario View Post


I am a long time citizen and it troubles me when Christian bigots use their political position to push their religious agenda on everyone (remember, religion is now debunked bunch of bronze age lies).

So anyone who opposes this legislation is a Christian....? Boy that comment doesn't sound prejudice at all......you know, since the commentor never actually identified himself as a Christian.
post #83 of 245
Good for Apple! And good for Tim Cook.
post #84 of 245

Can we just not have threads like this?

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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post #85 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Can we just not have threads like this?

Sure- tell Tim Cook to behave less like Sheryl Sandberg and more like Steve Jobs. What's next - a book?
 
Where's the new Apple TV?
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Where's the new Apple TV?
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post #86 of 245
Absolutist: There are absolutes we all must adhere to.
Relativist: There are no absolutes.
Absolutist: You just made an absolute statement, and therefor self contradicted yourself.

All relativists are relative relativists. They are ok with everybody believing whatever until what someone else believes infringes on what they believe.

Relativist: What is right for me is right for me, and what is right for you is right for you.
Absolutist: I believe it is ok for me to steal from you.
Relativist: No it isn't.

Who defines morals then? Who says what is right, and what is wrong? The government, individuals, majority, minority, etc? All of these are falible and are prone to mistakes. I cant expect the goverment to always do the right thing. There are some very intelligent and unintelligent people out there, so we can't rely on any given individual. Even the intelligent ones can make mistakes. I can't rely on someone else to do right by me. When you have a group of people (majority, minority, etc), they tend to be very dumb, regardless if they are smart individually or right collectively. So what can we rely on for morality? Who defines the standard? Left to our own devices we make stupid choices about morality regardless of how you look at it. We cannot depend on any group or individual to come up with the correct standard.

So who does that leave to define a standard? Evolution? Nay, absolutes don't happen by chance. Besides, evolution is about survival of the fittest. So by that mindset we should kill the elderly, the sick, and people with disabilities. We should take what we want. Its all about being ahead. Progress must ensue. But you may argue it is beneficial for us to show compassion or empathy towards others because it makes us more fit to survive. That would allow characteristics to persist within the species that may not necessarily be good traits for survival.

There is only one answer:

God has set the standard.

My job is not to judge others. That is not my place. I cant condem others for the things they have done, because I myself was just as condemned. It is God's job to judge. My job is to spread the word about the gospel. God has a perfect standard, and we all fall short of it. We are all destined for hell. It doesnt matter how much good you've done. Would a judge be a good judge if someone without a doubt committed murder and and he didn't sentence the criminal to prison? The criminal may argue, "but look at all the good I've done!" Many good deeds do not pay for the crime. It was still committed regardless. What are we to do then if we can't save ourselves from hell by doing good or promising to be better? God provided a way to save us from hell. He really doesn't want us to experience His wrath for eternity, but as a perfect judge he has to, unless there is a substitue. Only someone who is perfect (followed God's law perfectly) can be a suitable substitue. For if that substitue had their own transgressions, how could they pay for the transgressions of others? That substitue is the Lord Jesus Christ. The only thing you are required to do is accept and believe that He took your place for the sentence God had set forth.

That is what Christianity is ultimately about. People are going to do what they are going to do, whether the government permits it or not.

W. Pauli, winner of the Nobel prize in physics, said that all scientific methods fail when questions of origin are involved.


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z6kgvhG3AkI

http://www.answersingenesis.org...

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W. Pauli, winner of the Nobel prize in physics, said that all scientific methods fail when questions of origin are involved.


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z6kgvhG3AkI

http://www.answersingenesis.org...

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post #87 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

[Abolitionists] have no problem with discrimination. They had no problem with [a plantation owner] being forced out because of his personal beliefs on [slavery]. But if, say, another [person] is forced out [of the South] because they [didn't support forced servitude, Abolitionists] would be enraged. You see because they're all for free speech so long as it's speech they agree with.

Perhaps with that simple change of a few words you'll see that the issue is not with free speech, but with civil rights. The Mozilla CEO has the right to be a bigot and the right to state his bigoted views to the world, but from your comments it's clear that those that disagree with Eich's denial of civil liberties should be allowed to reply in kind. Why don't think that free speech should go both ways?

Personally, I don't use a Mozilla product but if I did I would have stopped using it as soon as I found out about the CEO's bigoted beliefs. That said, I don't think he should be fired because of those beliefs, in-and-of themselves, but, rather, fired because he's not good for Mozilla's business which means Mozilla is at fault for not learning that Eich wasn't a good fit for their revenue and profit potential which is why I agree with Andrew's Sullivan's comments on this week's The Colbert Report.

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post #88 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExceptionHandler View Post

It is God's job to judge. 

Some might argue, he is not doing his job very well.

 

In your soliloquy, you claim all people are less than perfect and not capable of judging, so why does the Bible say in the Book of Judges that God appointed human judges to establish justice over the people? Why didn't he just do it himself? I have a pretty good idea, but I'll let you answer that.

 

There is also this bit in Deuteronomy where it states that the town elders were apparently judging as well.

Quote:
If any man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey his father or his mother, and when they chastise him, he will not even listen to them, then his father and mother shall seize him, and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gateway of his home town. And they shall say to the elders of his city, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey us, he is a glutton and a drunkard." Then all the men of his city shall stone him to death; so you shall remove the evil from your midst, and all Israel shall hear of it and fear.  

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post #89 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

How would one know if they were denied a position based on sexual orientation? Should we also ban companies for discriminating based on hair color, tattoos, facial piercings, looks etc.

 

The same way as one knows if he or she were denied a job based on race or gender, for example.

 

Employment law -- look into it.

post #90 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9secondko View Post
 

 

LOL

 

They are choices. Nothing more.

 

The greatest deception of recent times is that homosexuality is like being caucasian, hispanic, asian, etc.

 

It's a complete fallacy. 

 

It's a lifestyle choice. 

 

Not immutable. Not by birth. 

 

So you choose to be heterosexual?

post #91 of 245

Sad to see so much homophobia and transphobia on AI. :(

post #92 of 245
Far better to shame bigots, ruining their reputation, than to use the violence of the state.
post #93 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post
 

Sad to see so much homophobia and transphobia on AI. :(

 

But, sadly, not surprising.

post #94 of 245
Quote:

God has set the standard.
 

 

 

There is now strong evidence that theistic gods i.e. gods that care about human beings, that interfere in their lives, that tell you what you should do, what you should eat, on what days, who you may sleep with and in what position, gods who break the known laws of nature for their people, god who stops the motion of the sun around earth so certain people in the Bible can finish their work, god who takes "our" side in a war, a god that gives itself body so it can kill it to save the humanity are man made invention.

 

Religion comes to us from other human mammals who not only know there is a god, but they also know his mind what he wants us to do. And how do they know? Revelation of course, god told them something often times contradictory what he told others. And you never even seek evidence for their extraordinary claims. But revelation is useless and unreliable as a way to discover truth

Revelation can only ever be relevant to the person to whom something is revealed. As soon as that person shares and relates the revelation to someone else, it becomes a testimony at that point. And then it becomes a matter of trusting that person for the claim they are making. Also, the person to whom something is revealed should be apprehensive and wonder which is more likely that laws of nature have been bent in their favor no less, or if perhaps they are under apprehension.

 

Revelations are dime a dozen. Numerous people have claimed that something has been revealed to them. Even worse different people have claimed same god has revealed things that are contradictory to the things god has revealed to other people. In Christianity god reveals himself as a human, he dies on the cross, and resurrects. In Islam, Jesus is not only not the son of god, he never died on the cross and never resurrected. Believing otherwise will have you condemned to hell. In Christianity god says love your enemies, in Islam he says kill your enemies and apostates. Yes it's the same god, and yet both sides claim divine revelation for the "wisdom" they preach.

 

Content of revelation paints a picture of a god who is quite frankly incompetent, stupid and has morals lesser than average decent human being today. And most importantly he leaves it to chance what you will believe about him and if you will be damned to eternity.

 

What religion you get indoctrinated into has very little to do with its truthfulness, but everything to do with where you were born. If you were born in Saudi Arabia for example you would be a Muslim defending Islam right now. Yet both Islam and Christianity and Judaism (the three desert dogmas) all claim to posses the true and perfect words of the creator of the universe. Yet how many sleepless nights have you spent worrying that Islam could be right? And why is that?

 

And isn't it incredibly stupid of a supreme, intelligent, omnipotent, omnipresent being to demand belief in him without evidence? God would presumably know that people would invent scientific method as the only sure way to discover truth. Yet he leaves such important things as if you will be damned for eternity to belief without evidence leading to three desert dogmas that teach completely opposite things about him. Yahweh himself besides being stupid is rather evil god. Look how he behaves exactly as you would expect the people of that age that invented him to behave (he orders genocide of neighboring tribes that worship other gods, enslavement of women and children etc, just read random book of old testament). By the way he was never meant to be god of all, he was meant to be a god of a single tribe (otherwise a lot of stuff god says and orders makes no sense). Evolution of competing religions and the fact we have multiple religions like this is exactly what you would expect to see if religion were man made.

 

All metaphysical claims and especially all physical claims made by religion were proved to be wrong. And would you expect it any other way really? Religion was our first approximation of cosmology, medicine etc. But like all first approximations it proved to be completely wrong. Jesus casts out demons to heal people, he heals lepers instead of healing leprosy, no germs ever mentioned in the Bible (naturally no germ theory of disease either).

 

But now we know better. We know how solar systems are formed, we know how planets are formed, we know how life evolves, we even know how a universe can come from nothing. We really don't need god to kick off any of these things any more. Besides positing an intelligent god capable of creating universes, god that always existed, or that spontaneously came into being is assuming a lot more than assuming the same about the universe itself i.e. dumb matter. Occam's razor cuts him out of existence as superfluous assumption that does not explain anything.

 

And besides, look at the absurdity of belief themselves: we are all supposed to believe that god impregnated his virgin mother in order that he could die on the cross for what he condemned the humanity to and so he could make himself forgive the transgressions he invented, performed by the beings created in his own image. And his followers are required to eat his flesh, soul and divinity in a form of a cookie which magically turns into him after a few incantations. All that so that we could join him one day in a celestial North Korea, praising the dear leader incessantly,

 

So, in light of that saying silly things like god sets the standard is really saying let's not use the very thing that makes us human, our reason to decide what is right and what is wrong, but let's rely on superstitions of our bronze age ancestors one chromosome away from chimpanzee and uses their judgement as what is right and wrong.

 

You see morals are just codified behavior and customs expressed in language. Morals like language are also products of our wills and minds and therefore also a technology. We can decide slavery is not a good idea (despite endorsement from Yahweh). We can decide that fairly applied laws, rather than nepotistic favoritism, is a good idea. We can outlaw certain punishments with treaties. We can encourage accountability with the invention of writing. We can consciously expand our circle of empathy. These are all inventions, products of our minds, as much as lightbulbs and telegraphs are. People who insist on absolute biblical morality are really insisting on using bronze age technology absolutely.

 

And besides god's morals are not absolute either. God in the old testament orders killing of innocent people time and time again. Explicit general prescriptions are given by god in what circumstances it is OK to kill people. God in the new testament says it is not OK to kill at all. So god changed his mind, therefore moral teaching on murder is relative. Just one example.

 

So, the only way the religious can claim their morals are absolute is to define absolute to mean "what ever we believe now".

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post #95 of 245
I wonder if this would have helped the guy from Mozilla. He was discriminated against
post #96 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by lanceh5 View Post

I wonder if this would have helped the guy from Mozilla. He was discriminated against

 

Of for the love of ...

 

Ah, well.  These threads are always good for one thing: Helping me expand my ignore list.

post #97 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9secondko View Post

And yet the first bash comes from you against Christians with this label of "basher." 

He's got ya there. The person who yells "I'm tolerant" is often the least. Bashing Christians is no worse or better than bashing gays.

Gays shouldn't be discriminated against. Period. I don't worry about gay pastors because they'll never be hired- it would be an awful hire for the church boards to make so they won't make it. It literally doesn't have to be about intolerance as much as the best qualified. I'm not qualified to be a hooters waitress. I'm ok with that.

Now as far as transgender... I'm with Apple ][- that's a mental condition. Just be gay. Only hermaphrodites should be able to "change" gender and not be labeled a loony.

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post #98 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

I'm sorry, if it's a choice, who would choose it?  Who would choose to face bigotry, have unequal rights etc?

Couldn't one say the same about Christians in China?

I don't disagree with you, but that's a poor argument.

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post #99 of 245
Private companies should be able to discriminate against anyone, just like individuals should. If people don't want to do business with them, so be it. What happened to freedom of association you tyrants? If a gay-run company doesn't want to do business with conservative Christians, more power to them. It's amazing to see how many people go along with fascism as long as it has a "liberal" "progressive" or "gay" face. Shame on you bastards.
post #100 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

What else would you expect from a bunch of racist and intolerant liberals?

Are all Conservatives hypocritical idiots? Should businesses have the right to make decisions that are in the best interest of their business or not? If the Mozilla CEO was at hobby lobby, he would still be there. However, if you make a product designed to appeal to a younger demographic, you might not want to publicly espouse an unpopular view amongst that same demographic. Geez, I thought conservatives understood this and thought the companies should be able to protect their image by making certain their employees don't make controversial statements. If I'm the CEO of Pepsi and start talking about aliens and lizard people, should that be a 1st amendment issue or should Pepsi protect their brand? Maybe the Mozilla ex CEO should go work at a company where his views don't hurt the company, like a religiously affiliated organization? It's not a first amendment or tolerance issue. It's business.
post #101 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Some might argue, he is not doing his job very well.

In your soliloquy, you claim all people are less than perfect and not capable of judging, so why does the Bible say in the Book of Judges that God appointed human judges to establish justice over the people? Why didn't he just do it himself? I have a pretty good idea, but I'll let you answer that.

There is also this bit in Deuteronomy where it states that the town elders were apparently judging as well.

Can I PLEASE cut this off at the pass? Let's not use scripture in this thread. It's useless in convincing non Christians. It's useless in unconvincing Christians. Completely useless

Please please please please please.

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post #102 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

Now as far as transgender... I'm with Apple ][- that's a mental condition. Just be gay. Only hermaphrodites should be able to "change" gender and not be labeled a loony.

You clearly understand that someone can be born with both male and female genitalia and from the context of your post you seem to be fine with them choosing the gender of the sex they most identify with, but you draw the line with someone being born a certain sex but identifying with the other sex? If one can have both sexes at once why can't one identify with a different sex? IOW, why does genitalia have to match the physical brain development that would make someone see themselves as being a different sex? it seems to me that nature is has a wide range of natural variances.

Now I do agree that it's a mental condition, but so is being gay, lesbian or straight. It's how you mentally see yourself.

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post #103 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

You clearly understand that someone can be born with both male and female genitalia and from the context of your post you seem to be fine with them choosing the gender of the sex they most identify with, but you draw the line with someone being born a certain sex but identifying with the other sex? If one can have both sexes at once why can't one identify with a different sex? IOW, why does genitalia have to match the physical brain development that would make someone see themselves as being a different sex? it seems to me that nature is has a wide range of natural variances.

I just differ with you that the brain determines sexual orientation. Steve Irwin doesn't watch an alligator to see how it behaves to determine its gender. He sticks his finger in his anus.

Kindergarten cop said it best "boys have a penis, girls have a vagina". The fact people make it more complicated than that is unsettling.

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post #104 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

I just differ with you that the brain determines sexual orientation. Steve Irwin doesn't watch an alligator to see how it behaves to determine its gender. He sticks his finger in his anus.

How do alligators determine the sex of potential mates?
Quote:
Kindergarten cop said it best "boys have a penis, girls have a vagina". The fact people make it more complicated than that is unsettling.

1) You're talking about genitalia, but you've now ignored the hermaphrodite as an option. That certainly complicates thing but it's a part of nature. I hope we're past the point of thinking these rarities in nature are not actually natural and such children should be euthanized because it's too unsettling to think about.

2) Odette Annabel as grown up to be a looker. Kindergarten Cop reference, not a hermaphrodite reference as far as I know.

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post #105 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post
 
 Let's not use scripture in this thread. It's useless in convincing non Christians. It's useless in unconvincing Christians. Completely useless

Got it! Scripture is completely useless.

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post #106 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Got it! Scripture is completely useless.

I don't think he's saying that, I think he's saying that quoting any religious text won't be helpful with this civil rights issue. If that's the case, I agree. It would be like quoting fortune cookies; perhaps there are some decent statements in some of them but as an argument it's not going to help make one's point. I'd think a rational atheist or agnostic could fine plenty of salient and sagacious statements in the Bible and every other religious books, and I think that any rational person of any region could also find salient and sagacious comments in another religion's sacred texts.

I think if one were to form their statement in their own words even if based on a fair and balanced comment from the Bible but without quoting it I think that would be fine.

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post #107 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

How do alligators determine the sex of potential mates?
1) You're talking about genitalia, but you've now ignored the hermaphrodite as an option. That certainly complicates thing but it's a part of nature. I hope we're past the point of thinking these rarities in nature are not actually natural and such children should be euthanized because it's too unsettling to think about.

2) Odette Annabel as grown up to be a looker. Kindergarten Cop reference, not a hermaphrodite reference as far as I know.
No clue. Let's use dogs instead- they're mammals. They can tell by balls. Although my dog has gone after my leg before....

1- duh. Although, if I'm not mistaken, most were "turned" female by default.
2- I'm not a hermaphrodite expert. If I'm not mistaken (without research and from asking an OB 4 years ago)- they have a vagina, but also testes. Not a vagina and a penis- hence why almost all become by default, females.
Again, I'm not expert enough to know about this- and doubtful anyone on this forum is. That's why I gave the hermaphrodite a "not-loony" pass.

But when you're born with balls and a penis. And you want to cut them off and get a vagina. That's insanity. I mean seriously, what's the point? You like boys? Cool- be gay. Vice versa, if you're a girl, don't get a penis if you like girls (as if lesbians have sex anyway- only half joking here).
Something is seriously wrong in your head when your born a man or woman but think you aren't. I'm not intolerant of that person, but definitely intolerant of that act.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Got it! Scripture is completely useless.
In this context, on this forum- abso-firickin-lutely
One of my pet peeves from both sides 1wink.gif

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post #108 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post
 
I don't think he's saying that, I think he's saying that quoting any religious text won't be helpful with this civil rights issue. If that's the case, I agree. It would be like quoting fortune cookies; perhaps there are some decent statements in some of them but as an argument it's not going to help make one's point. I'd think a rational atheist or agnostic could fine plenty of salient and sagacious statements in the Bible and every other religious books, and I think that any rational person of any region could also find salient and sagacious comments in another religion's sacred texts.

Sure I know what he meant. I just find fault with the original Bible lecturer. A lot of these types of religious fanatics just spout off whatever they heard on the sermon TV and haven't even read their own Bible and fail to understand that it is completely full of nonsense. Sorry if I am a bit jaded but going to church a couple times a week for my entire youth was a huge waste of time, but at least I know almost every verse in the Bible by memory so when these holier than thou fanatics start preaching I can quote them verse for verse to counter any argument they make.

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post #109 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

That's why I gave the hermaphrodite a "not-loony" pass.

But when you're born with balls and a penis. And you want to cut them off and get a vagina. That's insanity. I mean seriously, what's the point? You like boys? Cool- be gay. Vice versa, if you're a girl, don't get a penis if you like girls (as if lesbians have sex anyway- only half joking here).
Something is seriously wrong in your head when your born a man or woman but think you aren't. I'm not intolerant of that person, but definitely intolerant of that act.
In this context, on this forum- abso-firickin-lutely
One of my pet peeves from both sides 1wink.gif

Why are hermaphrodites given a pass? They, too, were born with a male genitalia in some form so why is it OK if they identify as female and actions to make that a reality, but it's not OK if someone is born identifying as the opposite sex (not feeling like they are gay) but feeling their whole life as if their mind was but into the wrong body.

In my life I've never once had such an ordeal to contend with but that is how I see the scenario which is why I see such a decision to be more difficult than any I've ever made and likely more difficult than I'll ever have to make. I think it's courageous for people to be their true self when society isn't ready to accept you for who you are. I consider you to be a reasonable and intelligent person so I do hope you try to consider what these fellow people must have to go through to make such a decision.

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post #110 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Sure I know what he meant. I just find fault with the original Bible lecturer. A lot of these types of religious fanatics just spout off whatever they heard on the sermon TV and haven't even read their own Bible and fail to understand that it is completely full of nonsense. Sorry if I am a bit jaded but going to church a couple times a week for my entire youth was a huge waste of time, but at least I know almost every verse in the Bible by memory so when these holier than thou fanatics start preaching I can quote them verse for verse to counter any argument they make.

Oh, well as a rebuttal to scripture I think quoting scripture is perfectly acceptable.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #111 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Why are hermaphrodites given a pass? They, too, were born with a male genitalia in some form so why is it OK if they identify as female and actions to make that a reality, but it's not OK if someone is born identifying as the opposite sex (not feeling like they are gay) but feeling their whole life as if their mind was but into the wrong body.

In my life I've never once had such an ordeal to contend with but that is how I see the scenario which is why I see such a decision to be more difficult than any I've ever made and likely more difficult than I'll ever have to make. I think it's courageous for people to be their true self when society isn't ready to accept you for who you are. I consider you to be a reasonable and intelligent person so I do hope you try to consider what these fellow people must have to go through to make such a decision.
Hermaphrodites at least had some form of both genetalia, so I can comprehend them having confusion.

But In essence I attribute it to a mental disorder. You yourself said "their mind". So were in agreement it's mental, just in disagreement if it's reasonable or not. I don't doubt they think it- that's not an issue- neither is their courage. It can't be proven they are telling the truth or if they have a disorder. I just don't agree with "their" reality- and I don't think we should be forced as a society to. This "accept everything" mentality is ridiculous.
Schizophrenics think they're all sorts of things- why is sexual orientation given a pass but thinking youre from outer space isn't?
Note: not saying they are schizophrenics, just making a point with another disorder.

If someone has a penis but want a vagina- that's fine- you should Get one. Just don't tell me you're a girl and expect me to believe it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Oh, well as a rebuttal to scripture I think quoting scripture is perfectly acceptable.
I so disagree. Just have none of it. Then we see the same crap for both sides "love everyone" is rebutted with "can't eat cows" (Paraphrasing).

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post #112 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

But In essence I attribute it to a mental disorder. You yourself said "their mind". So were in agreement it's mental, just in disagreement if it's reasonable or not.

I also said that being straight is in "your mind." You consciously know you identify yourself as male but you didn't consciously choose that identification.
Quote:
Schizophrenics think they're all sorts of things- why is sexual orientation given a pass but thinking youre from outer space isn't?

I am surprised that you wrote that. That is some Apple ][ thinking; both the person and the timeframe when that computer was last for sale.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #113 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I also said that being straight is in "your mind." You consciously identify yourself as male but you didn't consciously choose that identification.

I can look in my pants and see what I was born with to know in a male. If I get amnesia and forget if I'm a guy or girl, I'll just glance in my underwear or look at my birth certificate and clear things up.

More than genitalia. Ovulation, breast tissue, body type, risk of gender-sensitive disease, prostate cancer, muscularity, fat needs, EVERYTHING in your body works like a male or female. The only thing that doesn't is their mind. Hence- a mental disorder.

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post #114 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post
 
I so disagree. Just have none of it. Then we see the same crap for both sides "love everyone" is rebutted with "can't eat cows" (Paraphrasing).

Refuting scripture with scripture  is just a more socially acceptable version of calling someone a moron. "Oh yeah, so you say the Bible is infallible?" What about this [quote]? Sure, it usually ends as agree to disagree but I don't give these Bible thumpers a pass on anything because the contextual continuity of the Bible text is bogus in my opinion, not to mention the scientific contradictions.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #115 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

I can look in my pants and see what I was born with to know in a male. If I get amnesia and forget if I'm a guy or girl, I'll just glance in my underwear or look at my birth certificate and clear things up.

More than genitalia. Ovulation, breast tissue, body type, risk of gender-sensitive disease, prostate cancer, muscularity, fat needs, EVERYTHING in your body works like a male or female. The only thing that doesn't is their mind. Hence- a mental disorder.

You honestly think you interests, personality, mentality and everything else about that make you sound male to someone that can't check out your "junk" is because you looked down at your crotch one day as a child and said, "Huh, I guess I need to start acting like a male because I have male genitalia." I don't think that was the case. I think you just happen to fall into the majority where your physical sex organ match your physical brain.

I can tell you I have never had to make a decision about such things. There was crossroad or turning point or any decision to be made.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

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post #116 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I am surprised that you wrote that. That is some Apple ][ thinking; both the person and the timeframe when that computer was last for sale.

I was simply re-enforcing my belief it's a mental disorder. I don't know if it's a learned or an inherited disorder- maybe both- but I believe it is a disorder nonetheless.

I believe they think they are the opposite gender. And I also believe are incredibly courageous. I just think they're brain isn't right. Again- the brain is the only thing telling them they aren't the gender they were born- so what's wrong? Every single part of their body all the way down to their chromosomes? Or their brain?

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post #117 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Refuting scripture with scripture  is just a more socially acceptable version of calling someone a moron. "Oh yeah, so you say the Bible is infallible?" What about this
Quote:
? Sure, it usually ends as agree to disagree but I don't give these Bible thumpers a pass on anything because the contextual continuity of the Bible text is bogus in my opinion, not to mention the scientific contradictions.

You grew up in church- so you know Jesus said scripture is only the living word to those who believe.

So yes, when a Christian comes in touting scripture, he is being idiotic- because he's trying to convince a non believer- all the while, not believing what Jesus said. So head spinning. The whole thing annoys me to no end. 1smile.gif

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post #118 of 245

A lot of people in this thread are saying WAY more about themselves and their ignorance than they realize.

 

I'm outta here.

post #119 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

You honestly think you interests, personality, mentality and everything else about that make you sound male to someone that can't check out your "junk" is because you looked down at your crotch one day as a child and said, "Huh, I guess I need to start acting like a male because I have male genitalia." I don't think that was the case. I think you just happen to fall into the majority where your physical sex organ match your physical brain.

I can tell you I have never had to make a decision about such things. There was crossroad or turning point or any decision to be made.

Huh? How does a male act? Look- a male can wear a dress, work on an engine, or stay at home with the kids. I disagree with "gender specific" actions. It's primative. People should play to their strengths- whether male or female.
In fact, by saying "I think I'm a female" reinforces that ridiculous premise. You were born with a penis. You're a male. Period. Throw all that "how a male acts" crap out the window. If we don't define that having a penis means you're a male- then how in the hell do we define it? If you can bench 225?

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post #120 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

I was simply re-enforcing my belief it's a mental disorder. I don't know if it's a learned or an inherited disorder- maybe both- but I believe it is a disorder nonetheless.

I believe they think they are the opposite gender. And I also believe are incredibly courageous. I just think they're brain isn't right. Again- the brain is the only thing telling them they aren't the gender they were born- so what's wrong? Every single part of their body all the way down to their chromosomes? Or their brain?

1) Gender and sex should not be conflated. Gender is cultural and has nothing to do with sex organs even though there is an overwhelming association within nearly all cutlers.

2) Based your comments then you'd have to think being gay is some sort of mental disorder, and not just a variation in nature? It certainly doesn't allow for the procreation of a species, but why does nature have to be so explicit? Clearly it's not or hermaphrodites wouldn't exist. If a fetus moving from female to male doesn't have the right on/off switches for the genitalia then why can't the same be true of the brain?

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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