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Samsung's big bet on Android actually a covert strategy to replace Android - Page 3

post #81 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post
 

Excellent point. Android fans have invested heavily in Samsung hardware since it carries the flag for Android. If Samsung moves away from Android will Android fans move away from Samsung? Are Samsung customers Samsung fans or Android fans? We know Apple customers are Apple fans in general, not necessarily iOS fans.

 

What does Samsung do for Maps if they stop using Android?  Maybe they license someone else's? (Nokia/MS?)

post #82 of 111
Wow there really evil. From what I've read from the bottom it seems as I they would hang on to Android until they could built up their exposure as much as possible and then dumb Google as not many other Cellphone/tablet companies support Android as much as samsung and then go to there tizen platform. I think Apple would crush them and Google would join Apple against samsung. I hope this happens.
post #83 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeiP5 View Post

Wow there really evil. From what I've read from the bottom it seems as I they would hang on to Android until they could built up their exposure as much as possible and then dumb Google as not many other Cellphone/tablet companies support Android as much as samsung and then go to there tizen platform. I think Apple would crush them and Google would join Apple against samsung. I hope this happens.

honestly...I'd be down for that. I REALLLLLLLY do not like Samsung...I'm a Nexus buyer and I even avoided the Nexus program when they made the NS and the GN. I do not buy their monitors, their TVs, nothing.

 

I know all companies have skeletons in their closet but Samsung also has some in the Kitchen, the living Room, the bathroom, a skeletal totem pole in the front yard and a graveyard in the backyard.

 

How anyone can support them directly is beyond me (well, usually due to the general ignorance of tech related matters upon most people).

 

I disagree with your assertion that Google is dumb...Google put themselves in a position where Android could fail miserably and they will still make money...but I do think they've been shortsighted when it came to Android and are now scrambling to make it up.  I've been with Android since 1.0 and OMG was it a POS system. If it wasn't for JesusFreke rooting the G1 I would've returned it within a week and went with the iPhone.

 

I still may go iPhone...if the rumors of the iP6 are true. The Nexus is cheap enough to buy it for the hell of it regardless.

post #84 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jexus View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post
 

Aren't C#./.NET programs also run using a virtual machine (the Common Language Runtime)? What are the main advantages of C# over Java?

 



Yes they are.

As to immediate differences.

C# is compile before distribution vs Java's Compile at Run Time. Java is made more portable by that design but also incredibly generic and hardware limited in a way. C# and it's C bretheren compiling before distribution can lead to some portability problems because they compile for their target hardware, but they make MUCH better use of the hardware than Java does. It also means Java apps are slower on startup than C# equivalent apps.

The C's also because of the above have better low level access and functions.

C# is a lot friendlier with other languages than Java is. Java can't natively interact with other languages, it has to go through something like COBRA or JNI. Java is also fairly restrictive on elements and words that you can use in JNI. C#'s design made it incredibly friendly for cross language interoperability. It still needs extensions depending on the language, but nowhere near Java amount.

C# Evolves a lot faster than Java does. It is also more feature rich. Before C#/.NET 3.0 the opposite was true.

Java's Open Source Nature naturally gives it more reach than C# does, however thanks to the work of several open source projects such as Mono, C# has been extended past Windows, and onto platforms like Linux, BSD, Solaris and iOS.

C# has better support for Parallelism than Java does.

Also LINQ is one the greatest and most distinguishing features available to the .NET framework.(Though it has seen ports to other languages, Java included.)

Anything else would basically amount to throwing around pure technobabble words.

I'm sure there are advantages to Java depending on the application, but I'm personally not a big fan of the language.

I personally know an older lady friend who has to write her apps in Java first and then translate them over to C++ because she dislikes the syntax of the latter greatly.

Fair points, but I do have a comment about the first one regarding compile before distribution vs. just-in-time compilation. While it's true that JIT incurs a startup penalty, shouldn't that penalty apply only to the first few runs? Both Oracle's JVM and Dalvik cache the JIT compiler output. From Oracle's documentation:

 

"Additionally, the compiler can take advantage of Oracle JVM's class resolution model to optionally persist compiled Java methods across database calls, sessions, or instances. Such persistence avoids the overhead of unnecessary recompilations across sessions or instances, when it is known that semantically the Java code has not changed." (http://docs.oracle.com/cd/B28359_01/java.111/b31225/chnine.htm#BABDCIBH)


Edited by d4NjvRzf - 4/12/14 at 11:44pm
post #85 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Rather than seeing other Android makers as part of a collective family or alliance, Samsung saw HTC, once the world's leading Windows Phone maker then a pioneering adopter of Android, as a competitor to stop.

 

In other news, the Pope is Catholic.

 

Of course it did. Even for DED that is a ridiculous comment. Is Samsung supposed to have thought, "we won't compete against HTC because they're a fellow Android manufacturer - let's just let them take our marketshare"?

 

If you think multi-billion-dollar global corporations are motivated by this sort of ideology then you don't understand anything about the industry and should probably stop talking.

post #86 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphonious View Post

In other news, the Pope is Catholic.

I'm not so sure about that. 1biggrin.gif

Pope Francis is awesome!

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post #87 of 111
Only slightly off-topic:

I went to Staples yesterday to pick up some printer ink. Passing by the laptop display I heard this conversation between an elderly man and the fairly young Staples salesperson. The words may not be exact but here's the gist of it:

Salesman: Can I help you find something?
Customer: Just looking for a Chromebook.
Salesman: *laughs* . Why?
Customer: I need another computer for email and bills and my daughter suggested it. She has one.
Salesman: She uses a Chromebook? For what? *laughs again*
Customer: What do you think I should get?
Salesman: Personally I like Apple laptops.
Customer: Where are those?
Salesman: We don't carry them here. Some people think they're too expensive but if you can afford it that's what I think you should get.
Customer: Do you have anything here? I don't really want to spend a lot.

This is where I stuck my nose in:
Me: What do you want to do besides email?
Customer: That's mostly it. I pay bills and my wife uses it for recipes, pictures of the grandkids. Look at stuff for the house, medical stuff. Not a lot Shopping maybe.
Salesman: We have a basic laptop over here for less than $400, It might work. It's a Windows machine so it's slow but if you don't do much it's a good price.
Me: Why not a Chromebook? It costs less than that.
Salesman: *snickers* It doesn't do anything.
Me: Really? What doesn't it do?
Salesman: *makes believe he's looking at one of the computers as an excuse to look away* I don't really know. I've never used one myself. I've just heard about them. (Now he turning red)
Me: I think it will work for everything he said he needs it for. All his email and bills, shopping, keeping up with the kids pictures, editing pictures to send back, listening to music, research medical stuff. . . It's more secure, virus-proof as your Mac, always up to date, doesn't get hot so it won't burn his lap. Pretty much anything he'd do with the $400 laptop except the Chromebook is faster, doesn't cost as much, and easier. Anyway, sorry for butting in.
Salesman: *nervous laugh* Well anything is better than Windows.

This is where I walked away. I hope the customer did too before being misled any more by a supposedly trained computer salesman. No wonder Staples and stores like it are failing.
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post #88 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Only slightly off-topic:

I went to Staples yesterday to pick up some printer ink. Passing by the laptop display I heard this conversation between an elderly man and the fairly young Staples salesperson. The words may not be exact but here's the gist of it:

Salesman: Can I help you find something?
Customer: Just looking for a Chromebook.
Salesman: *laughs* . Why?
Customer: I need another computer for email and bills and my daughter suggested it. She has one.
Salesman: She uses a Chromebook? For what? *laughs again*
Customer: What do you think I should get?
Salesman: Personally I like Apple laptops.
Customer: Where are those?
Salesman: We don't carry them here. Some people think they're too expensive but if you can afford it that's what I think you should get.
Customer: Do you have anything here? I don't really want to spend a lot.

This is where I stuck my nose in:
Me: What do you want to do besides email?
Customer: That's mostly it. I pay bills and my wife uses it for recipes, pictures of the grandkids. Look at stuff for the house, medical stuff. Not a lot Shopping maybe.
Salesman: We have a basic laptop over here for less than $400, It might work. It's a Windows machine so it's slow but if you don't do much it's a good price.
Me: Why not a Chromebook? It costs less than that.
Salesman: *snickers* It doesn't do anything.
Me: Really? What doesn't it do?
Salesman: *makes believe he's looking at one of the computers as an excuse to look away* I don't really know. I've never used one myself. I've just heard about them. (Now he turning red)
Me: I think it will work for everything he said he needs it for. All his email and bills, shopping, keeping up with the kids pictures, editing pictures to send back, listening to music, research medical stuff. . . It's more secure, virus-proof as your Mac, always up to date, doesn't get hot so it won't burn his lap. Pretty much anything he'd do with the $400 laptop except the Chromebook is faster, doesn't cost as much, and easier. Anyway, sorry for butting in.
Salesman: *nervous laugh* Well anything is better than Windows.

This is where I walked away. I hope the customer did too before being misled any more by a supposedly trained computer salesman. No wonder Staples and stores like it are failing.

1) Is this what they told you post about in your weekly shillnanigans meeting at Google?¡ 1cool.gif (THIS IS JUST A JOKE)

2) I bet that happens far too often. The fact that the store doesn't sell Macs should mean the employee never bring it up. He shouldn't lie to the customer, but he shouldn't bring it up. He's getting paid to push products sold by Staples. I probably would have said something to the employee because it's not good for Staples or his job.

3) Staples sells iPads and based on his usage that may have been a better for his needs than Chromebook. It's only if someone needs to type a lot but doesn't need extensive access to desktop apps that I'd think Chromebook would be a better fit for the average user. I think a couple follow up questions on the type of device could have been asked. That said, if he currently uses Gmail, Picasa, Google Docs then Chromebook would weigh more heavily in such a decision but I'm guessing that isn't the case.
Edited by SolipsismX - 4/13/14 at 8:38am

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post #89 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post

Fair points, but I do have a comment about the first one regarding compile before distribution vs. just-in-time compilation. While it's true that JIT incurs a startup penalty, shouldn't that penalty apply only to the first few runs? Both Oracle's JVM and Dalvik cache the JIT compiler output. From Oracle's documentation:

 

"Additionally, the compiler can take advantage of Oracle JVM's class resolution model to optionally persist compiled Java methods across database calls, sessions, or instances. Such persistence avoids the overhead of unnecessary recompilations across sessions or instances, when it is known that semantically the Java code has not changed." (http://docs.oracle.com/cd/B28359_01/java.111/b31225/chnine.htm#BABDCIBH)

 



It's a fair point, and I will concede to it from the looks of it.
post #90 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

I went to Staples yesterday to pick up some printer ink.

This is where I walked away. I hope the customer did too before being misled any more by a supposedly trained computer salesman. No wonder Staples and stores like it are failing.

Few points:
Printer ink? Do people still print things? I thought we went digital as a culture, where things could be exchanged electronically. I even take paper invoices and checks I get and scan them for information archives. And Apple Stores will email your receipts. Ink jets and their consumables feel like an anachronism. I'm curious as to what people need to print these days.

The salesperson is obviously not there to be the source of sage advice when it comes to tech; he is instead there to push whatever tech they got to sell (Windows PCs). If he was a more skilled salesman, he would have been on top for the situation and been able to manipulate the "Dad" into a sale--and made "Dad" feel like he got a great deal for his money.

This is why I only to use salesmen as stock checkers. I never answer the "why?" question from salesmen. I am not there to justify my purchase decisions to them, I am there to conduct a retail transaction. They ask "why" to test whether you are firm or malleable about your buying decision--and most customers who walk into retail like the "Dad" are malleable. Malleable in the sense that the "ChromeBook" inquiry is really an unmet need "email, web etc." that the salesman could fill with his Windows laptops.

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post #91 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Few points:
Printer ink? Do people still print things? I thought we went digital as a culture, where things could be exchanged electronically. I even take paper invoices and checks I get and scan them for information archives. And Apple Stores will email your receipts. Ink jets and their consumables feel like an anachronism. I'm curious as to what people need to print these days.

Well, we're not quite to the point of an all-digital world yet. I still have customers that want a paper copy of an invoice as a receipt. or a paper receipt for a job deposit. Most people don't even have an e-mail address connected to their credit/debit card so that I can automatically forward an electronic receipt.

Besides, 80% of my business depends on folks needing printed materials (canvas, fabric, vinyl, paper) so I'd just as soon the need never went away. 1biggrin.gif Of course the 440cc cartridges I use for that don't come from Staples.
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post #92 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Well, we're not quite to the point of an all-digital world yet. I still have customers that want a paper copy of an invoice as a receipt. or a paper receipt for a job deposit. Most people don't even have an e-mail address connected to their credit/debit card so that I can automatically forward an electronic receipt.

Besides, 80% of my business depends on folks needing printed materials (canvas, fabric, vinyl, paper) so I'd just as soon the need never went away. 1biggrin.gif Of course the 440cc cartridges I use for that don't come from Staples.

I can top that 1smile.gif

I shoot video of dance recitals and stuff... and I sell DVDs.

But guess what.... I also PRINT on the surface of the DVD too!

It seems there's still a market for physical media and printing... even though I keep hearing that they are dying media 1biggrin.gif

post #93 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by NormM View Post
 

 

What does Samsung do for Maps if they stop using Android?  Maybe they license someone else's? (Nokia/MS?)

 

Who said they can't use Google Maps? I don't think Google will block Samsung from Maps. Samsung is the dominant smartphone manufacturer and in the Android space, they're the only one making money. Google isn't Apple or Microsoft. Google needs users' eyeballs looking at ads. Eyeballs are eyeballs. It doesn't matter if it's an iOS or Android user looking at ads. I doubt Google will refuse to allow Samsung to use Maps.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeiP5 View Post

Wow there really evil. From what I've read from the bottom it seems as I they would hang on to Android until they could built up their exposure as much as possible and then dumb Google as not many other Cellphone/tablet companies support Android as much as samsung and then go to there tizen platform. I think Apple would crush them and Google would join Apple against samsung. I hope this happens.

 

They're not evil. They're being smart business people. Google bought out Motorola, a smartphone manufacturer. Despite Google's assurances, Android OEMs weren't on a level playing field while Motorola was owned by Google. Maybe Google didn't give Motorola preference on Android updates but while owned by Google, Motorola was able to ring up loss after loss because Google was willing to eat them. HTC didn't have a Google to eat its losses. 

 

If Samsung does eventually dump Android altogether for Tizen, it will be even more proof that vertical integration is what really works, especially for the OEM. 

post #94 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post


I can top that 1smile.gif

I shoot video of dance recitals and stuff... and I sell DVDs.

But guess what.... I also PRINT on the surface of the DVD too!

It seems there's still a market for physical media and printing... even though I keep hearing that they are dying media 1biggrin.gif

 

What is that? a VHS duplicator? ;)

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post #95 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

What is that? a VHS duplicator? 1wink.gif

Worse... it's Betamax

lol.gif
post #96 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

DED thinks that Google bought Motorola Mobility for something other than its patents. lol.gif


For two reason actually (well that is what can be concluded by the resell) the patents and Motorola's Advanced Technology and Projects (ATAP) department (which it also kept).

post #97 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Manufacture and/or designer? Meaning, Apple seems to hire out every bit of their HW manufacturing but they excellent design teams, as noted by pretty much everything they sell, save for their standard headphones.


I would say both (when it comes to components), f.e. Samsung's displays (which it also designs itself) are really good. So are their RAM-modules, SoC's are a bit hit and miss (some were/are great others not so much), their storage solutions are also really good,....

post #98 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

What is this, SamsungInsider.com? 1oyvey.gif

No, this is Appleinsider.
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post #99 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Excellent questions. Though I don't think that there isn't a definitive answer.

Yeah, but I'm not entirely sure that you're not wrong when you say that you don't think that there isn't a definitive answer.
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post #100 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

The covert aspect is that Samsung’s volume play and its pointed eradication of HTC (which most Android fans will tell you makes much better phones than Samsung, as Samsung itself acknowledged above) are serving its plans to destroy Android from the inside out. 

Market research companies, however, continue to report that Samsung’s volume is supporting and leading Android as a strong competitor to Apple. Just because you read AI doesn’t mean the rest of the tech world is as well informed about what is happening. 

Not to mention Amazon: I can't imagine Google are too happy about their breakaway ecosystem.
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post #101 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jexus View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

 

Not because of "failure," but because of infringement issues: Google appears ready to ditch Android over its intellectual property issues

 



Which I'm all for. The sooner Java gets the boot the better.

C and it's derivatives will do so much more for developers and should have been something Google did in the first place like Apple and MS did by carrying C/C#/Objective-C over.

I hate Java and particularly its manifestation in cruddy cross-platform apps. I know there is a history as to why Google used it early on, but I think they have found it to their advantage, because Java can be easily used on very low-end Android devices. It was more important to Google that they seemed to have a large market-share. If they had jettisoned Java and gone with a proper native language from scratch, they could not have supported the low-end phones, and their market share would have suffered as a consequence.
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post #102 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

Huh?

There were over 200 million Android phones sold last quarter. But Samsung only sold about 80 million Android phones last quarter.

Samsung may be the largest Android manufacturer... but they're clearly not the only Android manufacturer.

But if you take Samsung out of the equation, you're left with an OS that loses money; hardly an attractive proposition for developers.
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post #103 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Only slightly off-topic:

I went to Staples yesterday to pick up some printer ink. Passing by the laptop display I heard this conversation between an elderly man and the fairly young Staples salesperson. The words may not be exact but here's the gist of it:

Salesman: Can I help you find something?
Customer: Just looking for a Chromebook.
Salesman: *laughs* . Why?
Customer: I need another computer for email and bills and my daughter suggested it. She has one.
Salesman: She uses a Chromebook? For what? *laughs again*
Customer: What do you think I should get?
Salesman: Personally I like Apple laptops.
Customer: Where are those?
Salesman: We don't carry them here. Some people think they're too expensive but if you can afford it that's what I think you should get.
Customer: Do you have anything here? I don't really want to spend a lot.

This is where I stuck my nose in:
Me: What do you want to do besides email?
Customer: That's mostly it. I pay bills and my wife uses it for recipes, pictures of the grandkids. Look at stuff for the house, medical stuff. Not a lot Shopping maybe.
Salesman: We have a basic laptop over here for less than $400, It might work. It's a Windows machine so it's slow but if you don't do much it's a good price.
Me: Why not a Chromebook? It costs less than that.
Salesman: *snickers* It doesn't do anything.
Me: Really? What doesn't it do?
Salesman: *makes believe he's looking at one of the computers as an excuse to look away* I don't really know. I've never used one myself. I've just heard about them. (Now he turning red)
Me: I think it will work for everything he said he needs it for. All his email and bills, shopping, keeping up with the kids pictures, editing pictures to send back, listening to music, research medical stuff. . . It's more secure, virus-proof as your Mac, always up to date, doesn't get hot so it won't burn his lap. Pretty much anything he'd do with the $400 laptop except the Chromebook is faster, doesn't cost as much, and easier. Anyway, sorry for butting in.
Salesman: *nervous laugh* Well anything is better than Windows.

This is where I walked away. I hope the customer did too before being misled any more by a supposedly trained computer salesman. No wonder Staples and stores like it are failing.

He needed an iPad.
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post #104 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

He needed an iPad.

I got the impression he didn't want to spend as much as $400 if he didn't need to. A refurbished mini might have been OK to get the price down into the same range as a Chromebook but certainly not as easy to type on as a dedicated keyboard.
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post #105 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

But if you take Samsung out of the equation, you're left with an OS that loses money; hardly an attractive proposition for developers.

If Samsung disappeared tomorrow... the other OEMs might sell more phones and start to become profitable selling their own Android phones. I thought that was part of the problem... Samsung having great marketing and people buying Samsung phones instead of other companies' phones.

But that's not really happening... since I showed that there are more non-Samsung Android phones being sold every day.

It might not help the situation with developers though. Even though there are significantly more Android phones sold than iPhones... the iPhone users actually spend more money on apps.
post #106 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post


If Samsung disappeared tomorrow... the other OEMs might sell more phones and start to become profitable selling their own Android phones. I thought that was part of the problem... Samsung having great marketing and people buying Samsung phones instead of other companies' phones.

But that's not really happening... since I showed that there are more non-Samsung Android phones being sold every day.

It might not help the situation with developers though. Even though there are significantly more Android phones sold than iPhones... the iPhone users actually spend more money on apps.

 

Yes, there are lots of Android phones sold.  No, they don't make any money (and actually lose money) selling them.  They are, apart from the flagship phones like S-series and the One, etc., low margin, cheap phones that are sold to buyers with little money.  Those buyers don't feed the ecosystem, consequently, which is why iOS users are always way ahead in spending, from apps to on-line shopping.

 

Remove the S-series, the Note-series, and the Galaxy Tab and the like, and you're left with multiple companies who haven't posted a profit on smartphones in years, if ever.  The Android marketplace -- apps, shopping, etc. -- would effectively be gone if Samsung left.

 

Whether people like it or not, Samsung IS Android when it comes to the marketplace.  Of course, Google doesn't care since if someone buys a Moto or a LG or a HTC, they are still going to see ads and thus Google will make money.  They don't care whether LG, Moto, or HTC are losing money (and frankly, I doubt that LG or Moto really care much, either, for obvious reasons).

post #107 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronJ View Post

Yes, there are lots of Android phones sold.  No, they don't make any money (and actually lose money) selling them.  They are, apart from the flagship phones like S-series and the One, etc., low margin, cheap phones that are sold to buyers with little money.  Those buyers don't feed the ecosystem, consequently, which is why iOS users are always way ahead in spending, from apps to on-line shopping.

Remove the S-series, the Note-series, and the Galaxy Tab and the like, and you're left with multiple companies who haven't posted a profit on smartphones in years, if ever.  The Android marketplace -- apps, shopping, etc. -- would effectively be gone if Samsung left.

Whether people like it or not, Samsung IS Android when it comes to the marketplace.  Of course, Google doesn't care since if someone buys a Moto or a LG or a HTC, they are still going to see ads and thus Google will make money.  They don't care whether LG, Moto, or HTC are losing money (and frankly, I doubt that LG or Moto really care much, either, for obvious reasons).

Yeah... that explains why Android's usage share is so low.

If the only people who actually use their Android phones as smartphones are the people with mid to high-end Samsung phones... that's not very many people in the grand scheme of things.

All those low-end Android phones (and there are a lot of them) are basically used as feature phones... rarely accessing the web or paying for apps.

No wonder developers tend to focus on the iPhone with 18% of the smartphone market... instead of Android with 80% of the smartphone market.

As it turns out... all that Android market share isn't really a benefit to developers... since it depends on the type of user and their economic status.

Who cares if 8 out of 10 smartphones sold today are running Android... if only 1 out of those 8 will actually spend money on your app?

I said this already in my previous comment: "Even though there are significantly more Android phones sold than iPhones... the iPhone users actually spend more money on apps."
post #108 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post



I hate Java and particularly its manifestation in cruddy cross-platform apps. I know there is a history as to why Google used it early on, but I think they have found it to their advantage, because Java can be easily used on very low-end Android devices. It was more important to Google that they seemed to have a large market-share. If they had jettisoned Java and gone with a proper native language from scratch, they could not have supported the low-end phones, and their market share would have suffered as a consequence.

 



But this makes no sense to me.(The low end part)

I'm not attacking your or anything so I hope this doesn't sound like that.

C, even Post ANSI and 13-14 years since the 2nd edition of "The C programming language" is still an absurdly small language and is up neck and neck with assembly for popularity within embedded development.

Nearly every usable machine worth using on the planet has a C compiler. I can't say the same for a JVM.

It gives direct machine/low level access, Java does not. This could've done wonders for optimization of the system.

The only possibly reasons I'm seeing are because

A. Java is more Modern, Where as C has aged quite a bit(but still does the job well)
B. Java is Object Oriented vs C's procedural nature. Meaning Java probably does a lot more for the programmer itself than C.
C. As you mentioned, Java is probably easier to get running with less effort. Most likely because of it's built in Garbage Collection(Which C does not have) and JVM.

But if the above were really a problem, then C++ could have probably served as a decent alternative. I mean, it can't be because Google is averse to C. ChromeOS is written in C/C++ from the Gentoo Fork.
post #109 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jexus View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post



I hate Java and particularly its manifestation in cruddy cross-platform apps. I know there is a history as to why Google used it early on, but I think they have found it to their advantage, because Java can be easily used on very low-end Android devices. It was more important to Google that they seemed to have a large market-share. If they had jettisoned Java and gone with a proper native language from scratch, they could not have supported the low-end phones, and their market share would have suffered as a consequence.

 



But this makes no sense to me.(The low end part)

I'm not attacking your or anything so I hope this doesn't sound like that.

C, even Post ANSI and 13-14 years since the 2nd edition of "The C programming language" is still an absurdly small language and is up neck and neck with assembly for popularity within embedded development.

Nearly every usable machine worth using on the planet has a C compiler. I can't say the same for a JVM.

It gives direct machine/low level access, Java does not. This could've done wonders for optimization of the system.

The only possibly reasons I'm seeing are because

A. Java is more Modern, Where as C has aged quite a bit(but still does the job well)
B. Java is Object Oriented vs C's procedural nature. Meaning Java probably does a lot more for the programmer itself than C.
C. As you mentioned, Java is probably easier to get running with less effort. Most likely because of it's built in Garbage Collection(Which C does not have) and JVM.

But if the above were really a problem, then C++ could have probably served as a decent alternative. I mean, it can't be because Google is averse to C. ChromeOS is written in C/C++ from the Gentoo Fork.

Apart that Java's Garbage Collection is flawed. Regardless of the legacy of C, etc., the real-world implementation of Java is just not optimised for apps and never will be.
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
post #110 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post



Apart that Java's Garbage Collection is flawed. Regardless of the legacy of C, etc., the real-world implementation of Java is just not optimised for apps and never will be.

 



I never argued such lol. I was arguing that I don't see logically in most cases why Google would take Java or C if "low end phones" was the reason. Seeing that C is itself one of the lightest programming languages around and can do a much better optimization job natively than Java can with JNI or COBRA.
post #111 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


Few points:
Printer ink? Do people still print things? I thought we went digital as a culture, where things could be exchanged electronically. I even take paper invoices and checks I get and scan them for information archives. And Apple Stores will email your receipts. Ink jets and their consumables feel like an anachronism. I'm curious as to what people need to print these days.

 

I still prefer to edit writing on paper (at least after the initial grammar/spelling pass), but of course I print that at work. And I tend to print anything else that absolutely has to be on paper at work and pay back the regulation 4c a page for it.

 

At home I only have an art printer (Epson R2880), but you can't buy ink for that at Staples. I haven't had a laser printer since my last HP LaserJet failed like 10 years ago. Or any other high-volume printer.

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