or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPod + iTunes + AppleTV › Review follow-up: Gaming on Amazon's Fire TV and Fire Controller
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Review follow-up: Gaming on Amazon's Fire TV and Fire Controller - Page 2

post #41 of 62
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post
End of the day, controller shape is dictated by our hands anatomy.

 

Yep. And our hands default to thumbs up, not in, which is why the Sony design is inherently worse.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #42 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by mensmovement View Post
 

Yeah sure chief. Easy to say when

A) the company that you are a fanboy of doesn't offer comparable services.

B) your preferred company does not presently have competing hardware. 

 

Apple is the best at its very limited range of products precisely because those are the only products that they choose to focus on and market, and they market it at a very high price point. Knocking the offerings of companies who choose to offer a broader range of products and services and do so at price points that other people can afford is ignorant. If it weren't for the products and services that other companies offer, your own company wouldn't survive. That is what makes the knocking of other companies so foolish. Your company can't even manufacture its own I-Pads and I-Phones without Samsung's parts. And your company can't even offer its online streaming and storage services without Microsoft and Amazon's cloud. 

So fanboy, wait until your own company is able to deliver its own products and services without help from the competition first, OK? Without Samsung and other hardware suppliers, there would be no Apple. Without Microsoft's software, Apple would have never gotten off the ground in the 1970s. Without Amazon and other online infrastructure companies, no I-Cloud and no I-Tunes. Meanwhile, Samsung, Microsoft, Google, Amazon and all of Apple's competitors would still exist without Apple. Why? Because they offer products and services that Apple doesn't and can't. Apple can't even run their own business without being one of the biggest customers of their competitors, which makes your own company "someone who doesn't know any better", fanboy. Or more accurately, someone who can't do any better. 

 

It is funny ... the companies that Apple keeps suing over allegedly stealing their stuff need to just simply stop supplying Apple. It isn't as if they need Apple's business to stay in business. And without their suppliers providing products and services that Apple's narrow focus can't supply on their own or even upscale quickly or well enough to become competitive if they tried, in short order there would be no Apple. But they won't, because they make more money giving Apple what Apple needs to remain in business than they will ever pay out in any lawsuit judgment. Funny how that works isn't it?

 

For goodness sakes. I bought an Apple TV. I returned it when I saw that it A) didn't support Amazon and B) it didn't mirror my last generation I-Pod Touch. Yes, it works with I-Tunes, but I have bought much more stuff through Amazon than through I-Tunes (I had an Amazon account before I-Tunes even existed) so that didn't wasn't really a value to me. So basically, for me Apple TV was worthless, or at the very least worth LESS than my Roku and less than a Chromecast, which costs 1/3 as much. At this point, there are set top boxes that are better for everyone BUT those who have other Apple devices, and Fire TV is one of them. Right now, compared to the latest set top boxes, the Apple TV is half-baked for everyone but I-Pad and I-Phone owners. If that wasn't the case I wouldn't have returned the one that I bought.

 

And even when the new Apple TV comes and blows everyone away, big deal: Amazon, Samsung and the other companies that you will bash as inferior will still make money off it because Apple will need those companies to actually manufacture the thing and deliver content to it. That is the world that Apple exists in right now. Everyone knows it, which is why Apple doesn't get the glowing media attention or inflated media attention that is going to the companies that Apple needs to be able to do their business instead.

You can't seriously believe or expect anyone to fall for most of the nonsense that you wrote.

"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." Douglas Adams

Reply

"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." Douglas Adams

Reply
post #43 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by macslut View Post
 

There are only so many ways you can design a controller.  

 

It's fairly easy to tell the difference between the PS4 and Xbox One controllers.

post #44 of 62
Originally Posted by mensmovement View Post

…and do so at price points that other people can afford…


Great FUDge, by the way. Are those macadamia nuts?

 
Without Samsung and other hardware suppliers, there would be no Apple.

 

Oh, well, if you get to move the goalposts mid essay, then you may as well say, “Without the Sun, there would be no Apple.”

 

…can’t.

 

Hilarious.

 

need to just simply stop supplying Apple.

 

I AGREE ONE HUNDRED PERCENT. This needs to happen.

 

Because Samsung would be sued for $50 billion, lose instantly, and no other company would EVER contract components with them again. They would utterly destroy themselves.

 
It isn't as if they need Apple's business to stay in business.

 

Samsung does. Funny how that works, isn’t it?

 
…in short order there would be no Apple.

 

TOOT TOOT! All aboard the Delusion Express! Tickets, please.

 

…which is why Apple doesn’t get the glowing media attention or inflated media attention that is going to the companies that Apple needs to be able to do their business instead.  

 

This is perhaps the greatest gap in logic I’ve seen in the past year.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #45 of 62
I cannot for the life of me figure out how Amazon missed such an obvious name for this product: PrimeTime™ TV

It's so obvious since the box is intractably linked to their Amazon Prime video service.

Fire TV is a horrible name.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #46 of 62
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post
I cannot for the life of me figure out how Amazon missed such an obvious name for this product: PrimeTime™ TV

It's so obvious since the box is intractably linked to their Amazon Prime video service.

Fire TV is a horrible name.

 

Doubt they could protect the word ‘primetime’ in this field, though Prime TV makes sense.

 

Incidentally, “Fire TV” is exactly what Apple will be doing to existing services.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #47 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

Yep. And our hands default to thumbs up, not in, which is why the Sony design is inherently worse.


That's a thumbs-up to ergonomic controllers

 

...yeah, alright, that was terrible

post #48 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

You’re a moron for not doing any sort of research before purchasing a product. It’s not Apple’s fault you’re lazy. You obviously never owned one, so the fact that you’re actively pretending to be stupid and lazy is just funny.

 

 

I am have to agree on this one. If Amazon's steaming video (yes, I said steaming, as in steaming pile) is a deal breaker, he should have done some basic research (not hard to do, see Internet) before buying. Even if he's impulse buying at a retail store, he can look up the answer on his gigantic Samsung phone before entering the checkout line. We're not talking about finding out something esoteric, but a key feature. Some retail stores have the AppleTV connected and on display for you to try, and if he visited the Apple Store, any of the sales people could answer that basic question. There's no excuse for being uninformed about it.

 

I also conclude that it is possible he is being deliberately disingenuous in telling a story about how AppleTV "let him down" because it didn't have some imaginary feature that was never advertised nor promised by Apple. As your correctly pointed out, his lack of being well-informed about his purchases was what let him down, not Apple.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply
post #49 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by mensmovement View Post

Oh yes and what is with the mediocre hardware slam? Compared to what? An X Box, playstation or Wii U which are entirely other types of devices?

 

I actually found exactly what was written really useful. I'm not a gamer. I have no interest in becoming a hard-core gamer, but maybe I might be interested in some light, simple gaming if it was easy and affordable. The question then is whether "easy and affordable" is worth it or if it just winds up being "might as well not bother." The kind of information Mr. Campbell provided here is useful in that respect.

 

Since I suspect the target demo for a product like this is closer to guys like me than the Hyperion Nerd Militia, I'd say Mikey nailed it.

Lorin Schultz (formerly V5V)

Audio Engineer

V5V Digital Media, Vancouver, BC Canada

Reply

Lorin Schultz (formerly V5V)

Audio Engineer

V5V Digital Media, Vancouver, BC Canada

Reply
post #50 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


I'm well aware of that, and I'm not surprised that Amazon took that route. I am however surprised at Apple's guidelines. Surely there's another way to design a controller. I would expect more from Apple than just a slightly altered 'me too' design.

Those aren't Apple's guidelines!

 

Where is the link to Apple's guidelines that tells them to make it "X-boxesque"?  How about you don't give me a bunch of pictures from 3rd party manufacturers and tell me "See- Apple told them to make it like that"- when Apple mentions nothing about the controller layout in their guidelines- only what the function should be.  So Apple copies Microsoft because some 3rd party manufacturer from Korea decides to make a controller that looks like an XBox controller?

 

Something happened to you the past year or so- but can you throw your drivel around somewhere else- it's seriously getting old. 

2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

Reply

2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

Reply
post #51 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

Those aren't Apple's guidelines!

Where is the link to Apple's guidelines that tells them to make it "X-boxesque"?  How about you don't give me a bunch of pictures from 3rd party manufacturers and tell me "See- Apple told them to make it like that"- when Apple mentions nothing about the controller layout in their guidelines- only what the function should be.  So Apple copies Microsoft because some 3rd party manufacturer from Korea decides to make a controller that looks like an XBox controller?

Something happened to you the past year or so- but can you throw your drivel around somewhere else- it's seriously getting old. 

I can't find the page on Apple's site, but here's how AI reported it last year.

http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/157999/apples-ios-developer-guide-hints-at-dedicated-mfi-game-controller

While the exact shape is up to the manufacturer the button layout must follow Apple's guidelines.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #52 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


I can't find the page on Apple's site, but here's how AI reported it last year.

http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/157999/apples-ios-developer-guide-hints-at-dedicated-mfi-game-controller

While the exact shape is up to the manufacturer the button layout must follow Apple's guidelines.

You can't find it because it doesn't exist.


And that picture is absolutely nothing like the XBox controller.  So do care to retract this obvious mis-truth?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


You do realize that Apple's guidelines for a controller are very Xbox-esque

2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

Reply

2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

Reply
post #53 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

You can't find it because it doesn't exist.


And that picture is absolutely nothing like the XBox controller.  So do care to retract this obvious mis-truth?

Those diagrams were not pulled out of thin air, but from Apple's website. Did Apple have to label the buttons ABXY? There are 22 more letters in the alphabet. Even the AI article admits it's a mashup between the Wii and Xbox controller.

edit: i found it http://goo.gl/PF5kjv

Edit 2: if you want me to take anything back you have to take this back as well.
Quote:
It's nowhere near the same. In what world is having a 4" touchscreen in the middle of your controls the same as an xbox controller?

Edited by dasanman69 - 4/14/14 at 2:19pm
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #54 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Edit 2: if you want me to take anything back you have to take this back as well.

Fine.  But "It's nowhere near the same" clearly stands.

2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

Reply

2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

Reply
post #55 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

Fine.  But "It's nowhere near the same" clearly stands.

Personally I don't have a problem with Apple's guidelines. They smartly went with what's tried and true. At this point we going to have to respectfully agree to disagree I will however say that Apple's overall design is different from the Xbox controller.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #56 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by macslut View Post

The entire thread of "copying the controller" is silly.

The controllers for the Xbox, Playstation, iOS (guidelines) and Fire TV are all somewhat similar. The kind of have to be.  There are only so many ways you can design a controller.  More so, they're designing the controller based on what buttons the ported games are going to require.  The layouts aren't patented, and this is a good thing because it enables people to go from one platform to another without too much confusion.

The Fire TV remote has this similar layout in the sense of "let's not re-invent everything just for the sake of being different" while actually being a specific design for the device for what they needed.  Note that other controls on the device for video and other features.

All in all, I find it to work very well, and I was able to jump into game play quite easily thanks to the familiarity of the controls.

No, it copies the Xbox controller. The Playstation controller is a lot different. And there are multitudes of different ways to create controllers. It just happens that the Playstation spearheaded a particular definition that stuck.

You're not very perceptive.
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
post #57 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Yet people pay a lot more than that to play a few iOS games.

What he's saying is that not many people will plonk down $140 before even paying for the games. With iOS, it's free.
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
post #58 of 62

I'm seeing the Wii Classic Controller more than Xbox controller (save the coloured ABXY, which are definitely very Xbox-y).

 

 

 

The shape of the iOS diagram is a bit reminiscent of the Genesis controller

 

 

I think it's safe to say that in the field of joypad design there's a lot of copysharing going on.  The original Xbox controller was heavily inspired by the Dreamcast too.

 

Don't see much point in criticizing Amazon for it when all the other players are doing much the same thing.

censored

Reply

censored

Reply
post #59 of 62
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

I think it's safe to say that in the field of joypad design there's a lot of copysharing going on.

 

Most of it just being stolen from Nintendo.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #60 of 62
Can't imagine many people arguing with that.

censored

Reply

censored

Reply
post #61 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post


I thought the same thing. How is this any different than samsung copying the iPhone? That thing is a mirror of the Xbox controller.

 

Must be something in the water over in the Seattle metropolitan area. "Redmond start your copiers", anyone? 

post #62 of 62
Quote:

Originally Posted by Andysol View Post





I thought the same thing. How is this any different than samsung copying the iPhone? That thing is a mirror of the Xbox controller.





The difference is Samsung did a relatively good job, Amazon did not.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPod + iTunes + AppleTV
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPod + iTunes + AppleTV › Review follow-up: Gaming on Amazon's Fire TV and Fire Controller