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Facebook said to be readying electronic payment system, could preempt Apple entry

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 
Social media behemoth Facebook is reportedly nearing a deal with Irish authorities that would allow the company to offer its European users electronic payment and remittance services ahead of Apple's hotly-anticipated entry into the market.

Touch ID


As part of the agreement, Facebook will be allowed to issue "e-money" to users, who can then transfer the funds to one another throughout Europe. News of the deal was first reported by the Financial Times.

Facebook is said to have approached a number of London-based financial startups -- including Azimo, TransferWise, and Moni Technologies -- about partnering on the effort. In an apparent sign of the seriousness with which Facebook is taking the rollout, the company reportedly offered $10 million for the right to recruit an Azimo co-founder.

"Facebook wants to become a utility in the developing world, and remittances are a gateway drug to financial inclusion," a source familiar with Facebook's thinking told the Times. The company is believed to have chosen platform partnership executive Sean Ryan to helm the e-money project.
Facebook already processes more than $2 billion in payments each year, mostly for social games
If Facebook does proceed with such a system, it would give the company -- with more than 1 billion users worldwide -- a head start in a market that Apple is widely believed to be targeting. In January, Apple CEO Tim Cook admitted that the possibility of a future iPhone-based payment system was one of the foundational assumptions behind the iPhone 5s's Touch ID fingerprint sensor.

"The mobile payments area in general is one we've been intrigued with," Cook sad in the company's January earnings call, adding that it was "one of the thoughts behind Touch ID."

"You can tell by looking at the demographics of our customers, and the amount of commerce that goes through iOS devices versus the competition, that it's a big opportunity on the platform a big opportunity on the platform," he continued.

At least one existing financial institution is thought to be willing to work with Apple to get such a system off the ground. World payment leader PayPal is reportedly "willing to white label parts of its payment service," including fraud detection and processing, to land a partnership with the iPhone maker.
post #2 of 27
Apple will be MasterCard, Visa and discover. Rest are trying to be bit coins of this payment industry 1eek.gif
post #3 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by helicopterben View Post

Apple will be MasterCard, Visa and discover. Rest are trying to be bit coins of this payment industry 1eek.gif

Fry: Do you take Visa?
Clerk: Visa hasn't existed for 500 years.
Fry: American Express?
Clerk: 600 years.
Fry: Discover Card?
Clerk: Sorry, we don't take Discover.

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post #4 of 27

Facebook's one billion or whatever users doesn't mean crap.

 

Any bum can sign up for Facebook, it doesn't cost anything. I see what kind of people use Facebook when I'm out and about on the subway or bus. 

 

Apple has nothing to worry about from any eventual Facebook electronic payment system.

 

Apple should introduce their long awaited payment system when the new iPhone comes out this fall.

post #5 of 27
I wouldn't make a transaction using Facebook if my life depended on it. Neither should anyone else.
post #6 of 27
Mark Zuckerburg will do anything to stay relevant. I work in education. No kids are using Facebook anymore. Everyone else will catch on eventually.
post #7 of 27

Prempt doesn't mean PREVENT.

 

Google built Glass... Apple didn't necessarily feel pre-empted. or even needing to enter in the market.

Lots of Tablets existed before the iPad... 

the iPhone... everyone said Apple couldn't catch up with the market 'leaders,'  because 'it's hard' to design a smartphone.

just about everyone built an MP3 player before iPod, pre-emption didn't affect Apple much.

 

In the end, for a secure payment system, everything from the device to the owner's identifier to the payee's identifier have to be controlled by one system (think credit card).   I only see 2 companies who can do that on a world scale for people who have the means to spend big bucks... Apple and Amazon.

 

Facebook doesn't have a device, so who owns the MiTM risk? and 2Billion a year... let's see  Apple is a little over 2Billion a week (well, total revenues)  isn't partnering with startups (hey great, let's partner with a company that has an 80% chance of failure for help doing e-payments....  yeah, that's seems like a safe bet...).  

 

Apple has built a secure system all the way from the chipset up, and have approaching a billion credit cards on file.  Amazon may or may not have the same, but people have committed to pay them for the stuff they want, and they've got kindle.

 

And I'm not saying it will be easy for Apple, but I can't see Facebook, unless they build their own phone,  be the Point of Payment anytime soon or at a scale that would be make Apple and their ilk to consider the market fully occupied.

post #8 of 27
Soooo secure, only idiots uses FB now..hey, wats the platform?
post #9 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post
[...]
"The mobile payments area in general is one we've been intrigued with," Cook sad in the company's January earnings call, adding that it was "one of the thoughts behind Touch ID."
[...]
At least one existing financial institution is thought to be willing to work with Apple to get such a system off the ground. World payment leader PayPal is reportedly "willing to white label parts of its payment service," including fraud detection and processing, to land a partnership with the iPhone maker.

Fraud detection is a totally different beast when you need a finger print to make a payment.   Processing?   I would argue at .99 per sale Apple is probably 'processing' as many or more transactions as Paypal.  looking at the numbers Paypal is probably passing 150B a year between buyers and sellers in 2013, I don't think the number of transactions are nearly the number that Apple is processing.

post #10 of 27

Right... I'm going to conduct financial transactions of any kind via a platform that 1) exists purely to leverage that info to sell me to more advertisers, and 2) is as likely as not to 'share' the facts of my purchase with all my friends if I slip up and don't explicitly say not to.

 

Right.

post #11 of 27

People hardly trust FB with random trivia.

Who's going to trust them with money?

Somebody, I imagine, but not me.

post #12 of 27

With the amount of data that Facebook already has, and with the rampant ID theft that I've seen on their system, no way would I trust Facebook with my financial transactions as well.

 

If anything, Apple has a long track record of safeguarding their customers' account information. In addition, Apple actually provides multiple ways of contacting them if you encounter an issue with a purchase. Just recently, I had a problem with an in-app purchase, and this was solved in 10 minutes using chat support. If I wanted to talk to somebody, Apple does not hide their phone numbers, and they also make it easy to e-mail or go to an Apple Store in person.

 

With Facebook, there are no easy ways to contact them if you have a problem with your account. You basically submit a report and wait for them to get back to you.

post #13 of 27
So let's see. They have no credit card information. Their customers don't trust them fully because of their privacy policies. And people are supposed to do financial transactions through? Laughable!

And you say they are going to "preempt Apple"???? ROFLOL
post #14 of 27
I hope Apple is ready to do battle (PR is the only part of Apple I don't have full faith in). Apple will more than likely have the most comprehensive, and importantly, secure, payment system when it's revealed, but there are a lot of companies, and the people who depend on those companies, that are going to go after them with misinformation/FUD: facebook, google, samsung, paypal, square.. to name a few.

   

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post #15 of 27
Why not bitcoin? It's secure, truly peer-to-peer and as anonymous as you want it to be. The only thing is it breaks the hold of large centralised services such as banks, as well as the PayPals, Facebooks, Googles and Apples of this world, which is why they're all trying to create their own, platform-locked payment alternatives.

I'll choose freedom, thanks.
post #16 of 27
Apple has 600 million credit card #s with their members in iTunes. Apple has been selling online to these 600 card holders so they already have complex software developed, Apple has iBeacons and related software, Apple has a patent on a mobile payment system with code developed or being developed, Apple was approached by PayPal for what I don't know.

Facebook has .... Er um .... well ... users and um users they sell advertisers to.
just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
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just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
Reply
post #17 of 27
LoL lol ha ha hahahaha ha hahha

That's the best joke i've heard for a long time
Great joke
post #18 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by NanoAkron View Post

Why not bitcoin? It's secure, truly peer-to-peer and as anonymous as you want it to be. The only thing is it breaks the hold of large centralised services such as banks, as well as the PayPals, Facebooks, Googles and Apples of this world, which is why they're all trying to create their own, platform-locked payment alternatives.

I'll choose freedom, thanks.

Thanks for posting that. I had a good laugh. lol.gif

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John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #19 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by NanoAkron View Post

Why not bitcoin? It's secure, truly peer-to-peer and as anonymous as you want it to be. The only thing is it breaks the hold of large centralised services such as banks, as well as the PayPals, Facebooks, Googles and Apples of this world, which is why they're all trying to create their own, platform-locked payment alternatives.

I'll choose freedom, thanks.

 

Choose BitCoin for our children's future!

 

/s

post #20 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by NanoAkron View Post

Why not bitcoin? It's secure, truly peer-to-peer and as anonymous as you want it to be. The only thing is it breaks the hold of large centralised services such as banks, as well as the PayPals, Facebooks, Googles and Apples of this world, which is why they're all trying to create their own, platform-locked payment alternatives.

I'll choose freedom, thanks.

Perhaps when gas stations and grocery stores start accepting Bitcoin it will have caught on, but at that point it will just be another currency, payment, credit system controlled by big banks. Once you see a major bank with a Bitcoin logo on their building, bank card, ATM or advertising you'll know it is safe. Until then, no thanks.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #21 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff View Post

Prempt doesn't mean PREVENT.

Correct. It does not.
post #22 of 27
Remittance and money transfer is not the same as making payments with a mobile device and FB is entering a business with many money transfer entities and the biggest of which I'd Western Union.

Can they beat Western Union in the trust factor I doubt so.

And also there many banks getting into this service and I doubt FB can win in this battle.
post #23 of 27
Quote:
 Facebook already processes more than $2 billion in payments each year

I really like AI highlight that part. Was it a joke because i find it funny. :D  Apple 2013 App Store Sales Top 10 Billion.

 

Secure payment system its an hard thing to do worldwide. I dont think Apple is quite up to the task yet.

post #24 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksec View Post

Secure payment system its an hard thing to do worldwide. I dont think Apple is quite up to the task yet.

That is sarcasm, right?

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #25 of 27
I've found the people who laugh the most at bitcoin are the ones who understand it the least.

It's a peer-to-peer, distributed, cryptographically secure means of transferring ownership tokens. It just so happens that the tokens have a value attached to them in traditional currencies. A complete transaction ledger is always available meaning every token can be tracked. There's a hard creation limit meaning no inflation of tokens once fully established. And the cryptographic private keys to claim the tokens belong to you, meaning you are your own bank.

Now, there's no denying it's in it's infancy right now, and some bad actors have removed some of its shine. But the underlying technology is already highly secure and trustworthy, without the need for corporate backing and central control.

You already trust AES256 encryption. You already believe in the power of P2P data transfers. You know an unforgeable public ledger of ownership makes a good way of recording possession.

So why not bitcoin.
Edited by NanoAkron - 4/15/14 at 3:40am
post #26 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by NanoAkron View Post

I've found the people who laugh the most at bitcoin are the ones who understand it the least.

It's a peer-to-peer, distributed, cryptographically secure means of transferring ownership tokens. It just so happens that the tokens have a value attached to them in traditional currencies. A complete transaction ledger is always available meaning every token can be tracked. There's a hard creation limit meaning no inflation of tokens once fully established. And the cryptographic private keys to claim the tokens belong to you, meaning you are your own bank.

Now, there's no denying it's in it's infancy right now, and some bad actors have removed some of its shine. But the underlying technology is already highly secure and trustworthy, without the need for corporate backing and central control.

You already trust AES256 encryption. You already believe in the power of P2P data transfers. You know an unforgeable public ledger of ownership makes a good way of recording possession.

So why not bitcoin.

Because all of the attributes that you cite amount to nothing if you view bitcoins as currency rather than a speculative commodity. Aside from a handful of businesses and websites, nobody takes bitcoins as payment for goods or services rendered. The gold rush right now is with ATMs, where those bitcoins actually become valuable because they get traded for dollars -- y'know currency that businesses actually accept. Yeah, you "choose freedom" -- tell that to your landlord or service provider or cashier when the bill arrives and you whip out your bitcoin vault on a stick.

post #27 of 27

Why do assets have to fall into one neat category or another? Gold and silver used to straddle two categories, why can't bitcoin? What's wrong with speculating on value during these early days of price discovery whilst the network effect is teaching more people about what money actually represents and how the current central banking-fiat system is broken to the core.

 

The fact that people can travel the world and spend their bitcoins in more than 4000 locations today means it has a use as a trans-national currency as well. This should grow further in the future.

 

As to your point regarding paying people in bitcoins, do you think I have all of my money in bitcoins? Why would I be paying my landlord in a currency they choose not to accept? If I wanted to pay my rent in Botswanan Pulos, he wouldn't accept them either, but they've still got value for the right people in the right place. So far, places which accept certain currencies are geographically defined. In the future, they might not be.

 

So instead, I've taken out a reasonable hedging position which relates my current finances to my belief in the future of the underlying value-transferring technology behind bitcoin.

 

And BTW, most bitcoin ATMs are for the purchasing of bitcoins for traditional currencies, not the other way around.

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