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Hyundai's CarPlay-equipped 2015 Sonata will likely be costly - Page 2

post #41 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post
 

Your smartphone requires a monthly fee.

 

...which you are already paying, so this is a silly argument. Further, if you are unhappy with any given Map application, you can switch to another one. I have Apple Maps, Google Maps, and Waze all ready to go at a moment's notice. As such, I do not think built-in auto navigation systems can hold a candle to an iPhone (or iPad or whatever portable device you choose) navigation solution, at least as far as cost and versatility go. The one area I'll give in-dash navigation the edge is ease-of-use. But boy do you pay for that. It wasn't worth $2000 to me given that I know where I am going 99% of the time.

post #42 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by zroger73 View Post
 

The "top of the line" Accord is the Touring model which is not available without navigation which means you are at least two models below the "top of the line". Assuming you got an EX-L V6, then there are two models above what you purchased - the Touring and the EX-L V6 with navigation.

 

You are assuming sedan. I got the 2014 EX-L V6 Coupe, no nav.

post #43 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktappe View Post
 

 

You are assuming sedan. I got the 2014 EX-L V6 Coupe, no nav.

True. My assumption was based on withering demand and sales of mid-size coupes. Another example of Honda clinging to the past. :)

 

So this means more than a few features are missing by not having "factory" navigation:

 

"Dead reckoning" - This is the ability of the vehicle to use yaw and speed sensors to keep the vehicle's position on the map updated while driving through a tunnel or during other conditions when the GPS signal is lost. A smartphone or portable GPS system will simply "freeze" when the signal is lost. It doesn't have any way of knowing if the vehicle is moving or in what directions if the GPS signal is lost.

 

Doesn't require a cell signal or data plan to function (vs. smartphone navigation)

 

Climate control - Most Honda and Acura models with automatic climate control and factory navigation (including the Accord) use the solar angle obtained from the navigation system to tweak the outlet temperature and fan speeds of the HVAC to increase occupant comfort.

post #44 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post
 

What do you base your first opinion on?  Have you ever owned a car with Navi and updated it?  Sounds like you never have.  Map updates were easy, and when on sale, inexpensive.  I bought Honda DVDs when they were on sale for $99 (instead of $149).  I sold my old Map DVD on eBay and recouped half the cost or more of the new DVD.  Install the new DVD and your update is done automatically.  How hard is that?  Current Hondas no longer use DVD drives.  They are flash-memory.  Map upgrades are now purchased as a USB flash drive.  Plug in the flash drive and the new data is uploaded to the stereo.  Why do you think that is hard to do?  Map updates are not necessary every year.  I bought one in 2007, and another in 2011.  Your smartphone requires a monthly fee.

 

You confirmed the failure of smartphone navigation.  No cell service, no navigation.  My OEM navi would still work perfectly because it does not require cell service to operate.  People who claim smartphone nav is better are full of themselves.  They all get to the same address.  My Honda Navi did a better job than a Garmin, which prompted multiple turns to get to one location instead of a more direct route guided by my Honda's Navi.

 

Portable Navis get stolen all the time because people are too lazy to remove them from the windshields.  The OEM dash stereo is unlikely to ever get stolen, which is another benefit.

If you're satisfied with your built-in nav system, that's great. I'm happy it's working out for you. And yes, I have owned cars with nav systems and I've owned standalone auto GPS units. Based on my experiences and for my purposes, using an iPad to navigate and support other needs and interests while we're driving works best for me.

 

Your math assumes, however, that I'm buying wireless cellular data service for the sole purpose of navigating. I'm not. I have other, higher priorities for staying connected while traveling. If you're talking about economy, for some years I used the same Garmin and moved it from one car to another, rather than go the high cost paying for the factory nav option whenever I bought another new car. Some in-car nav systems are user friendly, but some still haven't figured it out after 25 years in the marketplace. Why should I put up with systems that aggravate me when I try to use them, plus having to deal with different user interfaces when I switch from one car to another, no matter how good those nav systems may be?

 

Even though flash drive updates are more convenient than DVDs and dealer service appointments in the old days, why bother and why pay extra for them, especially when those versions are - as you say - revised only quarterly or annually? With Apple Maps or Google Maps, the data is cloud-sourced and is always current. Why should I have to worry about manually implementing updates? I want that taken care of for me. I shouldn't have to mess with updates.

 

So cell mapping data was lacking for 50 miles out of our thousand-mile-plus trip around Lake Michigan. That doesn't exactly label it a failure. The back reaches of the UP can be pretty desolate. If you're heading into the back country, use a GPS for sure. But driving U.S. Hwy. 2 between Naubinway and Manistique isn't exactly rocket science. We were there to enjoy the scenery - not to have our noses perpetually pressed into a nav screen. On a trip like the one we took, would a built-in nav system have provided both the location and background info for an artisan glassblowing shop in Cross Village, Michigan? Or a Mexican restaurant in Milwaukee that serves several great traditional molé sauces? That's the benefit of tablets and the impending evolution into CarPlay capability. Users get nav systems plus so much more info-gathering capability.


Edited by Kibitzer - 4/16/14 at 6:25pm

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post #45 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by zroger73 View Post

Honda has been experiencing problems up top for a few years now and it's only going to get worse before it gets better. The "redundant-screen" setup in the Accord has been drawing criticism for usability and reliability. Honda has lost their mojo. Their transmissions, engines, quietness (or lack thereof), refinement, and fuel economy have all been outclassed by the competition - they're riding along on their reputation for reliability and resale value from years ago.

Really? What is better, if you don't mind my asking?

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post #46 of 58
I certainly don't mind paying a little extra for Apple HW, and if I felt the need to replicate my man-cave in my car, I'd expect to pay for that too.
post #47 of 58
I just replaced my stock Toyota radio with a Pioneer touch screen system. 7" screen, Bluetooth, iPhone controls, SiriusXM, HD Radio, USB Aux inputs, Backup camera and more. I installed it myself. Total cost: $525. How manufactures charge $3,000 for is beyond me.
post #48 of 58
carplay enabled(coming in a summer pioneer firmware release) aftermarket indash is only $550 on ebay

carplay is coming in the summer with the Pioneer NEX series firmware update.Just buy a unit for your current car.I'm getting one for my 2003 car :-)

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Car/DVD-Receivers/AVH-4000NEX
post #49 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post
 

The biggest ripoff in terms of inflating car costs are dealerships.Have you evel looked at the dealer added costs on a car? I read that dealers actually add anywhere from 10 to 30% to the cost and for what?  It is unfortunate that we can't simply log on to a manufacturer website, customize the car to our liking and buy it from them directly. I think the only company that currently allows this is Tesla. New jersey actually just passed a law I believe to prevent Tesla from selling direct in that state which staggers the mind. Imagine if states told Apple they were not allowed to have their own Apple stores and instead had to sell through BestBuy, Target, etc...Apple's growth over the last several years was partly attributable to the fantastic experience you can get at an Apple store that added a huge value to the brand. 

From a troll, that's a rarely good post.

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post #50 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


As previously mentioned, it's because the way you get a large color tochscreen in today's cars is by getting the package that includes navigation. It's not because CarPlay requires the car to have its own navigation system,
We know that 3rd-party icons can show up on the CarPlay UI so I hope that Apple will not force everyone to use Apple Maps with CarPlay.

But in London, taxi drivers sometimes use an iPad mini hooked up next to the steering wheel.

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post #51 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrance View Post

I just replaced my stock Toyota radio with a Pioneer touch screen system. 7" screen, Bluetooth, iPhone controls, SiriusXM, HD Radio, USB Aux inputs, Backup camera and more. I installed it myself. Total cost: $525. How manufactures charge $3,000 for is beyond me.

Your post answers itself.

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post #52 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post
 

You confirmed the failure of smartphone navigation.  No cell service, no navigation.  My OEM navi would still work perfectly because it does not require cell service to operate.  People who claim smartphone nav is better are full of themselves.  They all get to the same address.  My Honda Navi did a better job than a Garmin, which prompted multiple turns to get to one location instead of a more direct route guided by my Honda's Navi.

 

 

Just a matter of time before a smart developer (like Apple) uses predictive intelligence to cache maps to the CarPlay device in a 100 or 200 mile radius around a car to be used for offline situations when cell service drop outs (and updates as soon as it finds a good signal). As a matter of fact, I already run a map program that allows you to load maps for the whole country so that you don't ever have to worry about losing cell service.

 

oth, I would love to hear about you dragging your in-auto GPS to the hotel room to watch movies and tv streamed off the web so that you can maximize that yearly subscription ...

post #53 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by elehcdn View Post

Just a matter of time before a smart developer (like Apple) uses predictive intelligence to cache maps to the CarPlay device in a 100 or 200 mile radius around a car to be used for offline situations when cell service drop outs (and updates as soon as it finds a good signal). As a matter of fact, I already run a map program that allows you to load maps for the whole country so that you don't ever have to worry about losing cell service.

oth, I would love to hear about you dragging your in-auto GPS to the hotel room to watch movies and tv streamed off the web so that you can maximize that yearly subscription ...

The CarPlay device is your iPhone. The display in your car's dash is just a second monitor that will allow the CarPlay UI from your iPhone to be displayed. Now Apple might be able to do what you say but it will be all within iOS on your iPhone, but I doubt they will since a 126,000 sq mile area of route and location information would take a long time to download just to store on your iPhone just in case you lose your internet connection for an extended period of time. If that ever becomes a real issue TomTom makes a great product for iOS.

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post #54 of 58

Stop with the “overpriced” bull crap will you all. Nothing is overpriced if somebody is willing to pay for it. And as for the unwashed masses, that’s what Android and McDonalds are for. 

post #55 of 58
I think they are pricing it high simply because they know that high-end smartphones (like the iPhone) have better functionality then their own systems. Car manufacturers are probably worrying that a key revenue stream is on borrowed time.
post #56 of 58
Just read a "hands-on with CarPlay" article over at The Verge. Short but informative.
http://www.theverge.com/2014/4/17/5622006/apple-carplay-volvo-hyundai-mercedes-benz-hands-on
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post #57 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

I think they are pricing it high simply because they know that high-end smartphones (like the iPhone) have better functionality then their own systems. Car manufacturers are probably worrying that a key revenue stream is on borrowed time.

There is no additional cost for having an iPhone. You need to have a console that can handle CarPlay which is why the base model Sonata with a 2-line monochrome display for the AM/FM radio isn't going to work.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #58 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

I think they are pricing it high simply because they know that high-end smartphones (like the iPhone) have better functionality then their own systems. Car manufacturers are probably worrying that a key revenue stream is on borrowed time.

Nothing is being priced high, this is pretty much standard pricing for in-car navigation systems.

 

Most people have a misconception about the price: the option might cost $2000, but that's for a control unit and screen that integrates with & controls several different systems of the car. Navigation happens to be just one of those systems. Can you control steering feel, suspension, coming home / leaving home lighting, ambient lighting, entry / egress seat position . . . with your phone? And that's just to name a few controllable items!

 

Navigation is the tip of that $2000 iceberg.

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