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Traffic from Apple's unannounced iOS 8, OS X 10.10 remains steady ahead of WWDC 2014 - Page 2

post #41 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

1) How are they unclear? If you saw those would you not recognize the one as a US phone number and the other as a date?

2) It's not sound because this is not math. There are always an infinite number of .0's at the end as noted by 10.9.2 having a .2 after 10.9. If this was math it would be impossible as there is a single period (or comma, depending on your country/culture) used to separate whole from fractional integers. Again, if this was math you couldn't have multiple periods — unless you reverse the period and comma usage which would then mean they are thousands separators — or use letters as oft seen in version numbers.

1 There are various instances where numbers are used with dots 1.4.6.2, so no, the American phone number format isn't always obvious to me. No doubt it is to Americans. The date format, even less so.

2 What? No! In maths, 10.1 is the same as 10.10 or 10.100000000 etc. In software, 10.1 is different to 10.10. How is that not confusing?
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post #42 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

What? No! In maths, 10.1 is the same as 10.10 or 10.100000000 etc. In software, 10.1 is different to 10.10. How is that not confusing?

THERE IS NO CONFUSION BECAUSE IT'S NOT MATHS!

THEY ARE NOT DECIMAL POINTS!

EACH ARE WHOLE NUMBERS WITH A SEPARATOR!

IT DOESN'T DENOTE A SYSTEM OF ARITHMETIC BASED ON THE NUMBER TEN ANY MORE THAN A SENTENCE ENDING WITH A PERIOD DOES.

PERIOD!

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post #43 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


THERE IS NO CONFUSION BECAUSE IT'S NOT MATHS!

THEY ARE NOT DECIMAL POINTS!

EACH ARE WHOLE NUMBERS WITH A SEPARATOR!

IT DOESN'T DENOTE A SYSTEM OF ARITHMETIC BASED ON THE NUMBER TEN ANY MORE THAN A SENTENCE ENDING WITH A PERIOD DOES.

PERIOD!

I think you're missing the point, my agitated friend.

 

Software versions increase, generally by point updates. This appears to be done in algebraic fashion: 10.2 comes after 10.1, 10.3 after 10.2 and so on. So logically, 11 comes after 10.9, not 10.10, because if you were following the sequence of number correctly, that is what you would choose. It's all very well saying that it is a different numbering system; of course it is, and that's what's so irritating about it! Perhaps if they had used a hyphen instead of a full stop, it would be less confusing. 10-1, 10-2, 10-9, 10-10 etc.

 

Not intending to rattle you!

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post #44 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


PERIOD!

Maybe he never used Tiger:
Quote:
The combo update for PowerPC-based Macs updates Mac OS X (PowerPC) 10.4, 10.4.1, 10.4.2, 10.4.3, 10.4.4, 10.4.5, 10.4.6, 10.4.7, 10.4.8, 10.4.9, or 10.4.10 to 10.4.11.

http://support.apple.com/kb/TA24901
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_Tiger
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/Settings/Keyboard/Shortcut and paste in  which you copied from an email draft or a note. Screendump
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How to enter the Apple logo  on iOS:
/Settings/Keyboard/Shortcut and paste in  which you copied from an email draft or a note. Screendump
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post #45 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

I think you're missing the point, my agitated friend.

Software versions increase, generally by point updates. This appears to be done in algebraic fashion: 10.2 comes after 10.1, 10.3 after 10.2 and so on. So logically, 11 comes after 10.9, not 10.10, because if you were following the sequence of number correctly, that is what you would choose. It's all very well saying that it is a different numbering system; of course it is, and that's what's so irritating about it! Perhaps if they had used a hyphen instead of a full stop, it would be less confusing. 10-1, 10-2, 10-9, 10-10 etc.

Not intending to rattle you!

This really shouldn't hard to understand that 10.10.1 and 1.1.1 are decimal values since decimal values only ever have a single period to separate the whole number from the fraction. They also don't use letters unless dealing with special notion like with E notion so that 120,000,000,000,000 can be written more easily as 1.2e14.

If you see a phone number written as 800-555-1212 are not confused because it's not written as (800) 555-1212, which is more standard? Of course not! You aren't confused by this and you're not confused by 10.10.1 not meaning the same as 1.1.1.
Edited by SolipsismX - 4/19/14 at 10:17am

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #46 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Quote:
The combo update for PowerPC-based Macs updates Mac OS X (PowerPC) 10.4, 10.4.1, 10.4.2, 10.4.3, 10.4.4, 10.4.5, 10.4.6, 10.4.7, 10.4.8, 10.4.9, or 10.4.10 to 10.4.11.
Maybe he never used Tiger:
http://support.apple.com/kb/TA24901
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_Tiger

I guess I could understand people not seeing the logic of the common period being used as a whole number separator if there was no precedence to call but between Apple and countless others I can't understand why thiscommon and simply usage perplexes some people.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #47 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


This really shouldn't hard to understand that 10.10.1 and 1.1.1 are decimal values since decimal values only ever have a single period to separate the whole number from the fraction. They also don't use letters unless dealing with special notion like with E notion so that 120,000,000,000,000 can be written more easily as 1.2e14.

If you see a phone number written as 800-555-1212 are not confused because it's not written as (800) 555-1212, which is more standard? Of course not! You aren't confused by this and you're not confused by 10.10.1 not meaning the same as 1.1.1.


PS: Since when do you remove a zero from before a decimal point in maths? That's what you're doing when you make 10.10.0 10.1.0.

10.10.1 is not a number, though, whereas 10.1 is.

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post #48 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

10.10.1 is not a number, though, whereas 10.1 is.

10.10.1 are three different numbers. 10.1.1 are three different numbers. 1.1.1 are three different numbers. These are not used in mathematical notation I'm aware of. That's what you're doing when you turn 10.10.0 into 10.1.0. There is no Newtonian rule that says "when dealing with multiple decimal points in a number…"


edit: Are you getting hung up because 10.1 can be used as both a version number and as decimal notation? In what context would you ever confuse these two? Do you not see an image when people make ASCII art or use character-based emoticons? If you can understand the use of all those characters for different things you can understand the common use of a period character as a seperator.
Edited by SolipsismX - 4/19/14 at 10:26am

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #49 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post
 

10.10.1 is not a number, though, whereas 10.1 is.


And yet Apple has version OS X 10.9.2. Oh the confusion.

post #50 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


10.10.1 are three different numbers. 10.1.1 are three different numbers. 1.1.1 are three different numbers. These are not used in mathematical notation I'm aware of. That's what you're doing when you turn 10.10.0 into 10.1.0. There is no Newtonian rule that says "when dealing with multiple decimal points in a number…"


edit: Are you getting hung up because 10.1 can be used as both a version number and as decimal notation? In what context would you ever confuse these two? Do you not see an image when people make ASCII art or use character-based emoticons? If you can understand the use of all those characters for different things you can understand the common use of a period character as a seperator.

ASCII art is not identical to anything. 10.9 is a number and also a version number for OS X. 10.10 is not a number but is an upcoming version number for OS X. 

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post #51 of 63
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

So logically, 11 comes after 10.9, not 10.10…

 

THIS. IS. NOT. MATHEMATICS. YOUR LOGIC DOES NOT APPLY.

 

That’ll do, I think. :lol: 

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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post #52 of 63

In Unix software versions the first number incrementing means new features that break compatibility, and the second number incrementing means new features that don't break compatibility, and the third number incrementing means bug fixes. They are just 3 separate numbers not some sort of decimal.

post #53 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joefrank View Post

There's absolutely no indication of apple doing any sort of tick/tock cycle in OS X whatsoever, besides you are clearly misapplying the term here.

1) Sure there is. If you check out previous OS versions you see Apple focusing on major foundation changes with one revision and then major UI changes in the next revision, usually containing the same name as the previous revision.

2) Not sure how I can be misapplying the two separate but connected onomatopoeic sounds made by a clock. It's not literally ticking and tocking sounds, just as it's not literally ticking and tocking sounds with Intel's tick/tock method to represent die shrink/new architecture.
Edited by SolipsismX - 4/19/14 at 3:09pm

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #54 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


1) Sure there is. If you check out previous OS versions you see Apple focusing on major foundation changes with one revision and then major UI changes in the next revision, usually containing the same name as the previous revision.

2) Not sure how I can be misapplying the two separate by connected onomatopoeic sounds made by a clock. It's not literally ticking and tocking sounds, just as it's not literally ticking and tocking sounds with Intel's tick/tock method to represent die shrink/new architecture.

Lol. There's a Grandfather Clock in your computer.

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post #55 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

10.10.1 is not a number, though, whereas 10.1 is.
Only if the point is a decimal. Which it isn't in software versioning.

This isn't confusing, just fodder for would-be pedants.

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post #56 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

I think both the examples you cite are unclear. Using full stops in phone numbers and dates is confusing. We don't use them in England.
I've seen it, so that's not true. It's more common to use a forward slash though, so dates must be very confusing to you with the numbers all being divided by each other.

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post #57 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post


I've seen it, so that's not true. It's more common to use a forward slash though, so dates must be very confusing to you with the numbers all being divided by each other.

I've never seen full stops used in dates or phone numbers here. If they are used, then they are very rare. A forward slash is commonly used here for dates, so that's not confusing. I prefer the other symbol for division.

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post #58 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post


Only if the point is a decimal. Which it isn't in software versioning.

This isn't confusing, just fodder for would-be pedants.

There's no difference between a decimal and a full stop, which makes it confusing. That much is plain, even for the hard-of-understanding.

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post #59 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

There's no difference between a decimal and a full stop, which makes it confusing. That much is plain, even for the hard-of-understanding.

Punctuation have different uses so that the period used for a decimal is not the same as a period use to mark the end of a sentence. They are all just separators but they have very different meanings. Ten.Ten.One are three very distinct statements. Using Roman numerals, Arabic numbers, or Latin script in no way changes their very specific usage with software versioning, and as previously stated they can contain letters and an infinite humber of periods because they are not decimal points.

Again, if you're still having trouble wrapping your head around this foolishly simple concept add the appropriate [.0] to the end of every single software version you see because that is how they work. It's [.0] all the way down forever and ever and ever, we just truncate everything that is [.0] to infinity the way we truncate the leading 0's. That means you need to look at 10.9.2 as 10.9.2.0 with [.0] repeating. All software versions conceptually end this way! Google Chrome is 34.0.1847.116. They have 3 periods marking four distinct segments representing different aspects of the build.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #60 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

There's no difference between a decimal and a full stop, which makes it confusing. That much is plain, even for the hard-of-understanding.
An appreciation of context makes it simple and understandable even for the easily confused. If it's software versioning then the point is not a decimal, just like when it's a date the slash is not a division symbol. Totally imaginary problem totally solved.

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post #61 of 63
false
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

1) Sure there is. If you check out previous OS versions you see Apple focusing on major foundation changes with one revision and then major UI changes in the next revision, usually containing the same name as the previous revision.

2) Not sure how I can be misapplying the two separate but connected onomatopoeic sounds made by a clock. It's not literally ticking and tocking sounds, just as it's not literally ticking and tocking sounds with Intel's tick/tock method to represent die shrink/new architecture.

By the same token that you can misapply "onomatopoeic" which can be used as an adjective to sound as it literally means to create a (new) name.

In terms of the OS, I will maintain you are pulling the tick tock thing out of thin air. With the exception of snow leopard there has never been a clear cut tick and tock strategy for OS X. Ml and mavericks have both been tocks to Lion's tick, but they are also ticks for a further tock... It's a misapplied term to describe something that's not even taking place...
post #62 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joefrank View Post

false
By the same token that you can misapply "onomatopoeic" which can be used as an adjective to sound as it literally means to create a (new) name.

onomatopoeia |ˌänəˌmatəˈpēə, -ˌmätə-|
noun
the formation of a word from a sound associated with what is named (e.g., cuckoo, sizzle, tick-tock).

onomatopoeic |ˌänəˌmatəˈpē-ik, -ˌmätə-|
adjective
using or relating to onomatopoeia:

Just because an OS doesn't make an actual tick-tock sound doesn't mean I can't apply the sound from a clock. It also means that Intel isn't using wrong because their chips aren't making actual tick-tock sounds when the etymology of the term is clearly the imitative sound of a clock.
Quote:
In terms of the OS, I will maintain you are pulling the tick tock thing out of thin air. With the exception of snow leopard there has never been a clear cut tick and tock strategy for OS X. Ml and mavericks have both been tocks to Lion's tick, but they are also ticks for a further tock... It's a misapplied term to describe something that's not even taking place...

1) So when I say it it's pulling it out of thin air but you when you say it's fact with Snow Leopard it's fact?

2) I say it's taking place and I have used Apple's past releases to clearly show they change up their focus with Mac OS X. Your assertion that I can't use it because Apple hasn't made it clear to you is absurd, especially when you stated in that same sentence that it's clear to you for just SL, which is even more absurd because you can't have both a tick and tock strategy on one version of the OS.

3) They also do this with the iPhone as they keep the same casing for two years.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #63 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frood View Post
 

Hopefully they'll have some sort of variation or improvement on widgets or continuously letting apps run on a portion of the screen in iOS8.  Assuming they are releasing a bigger screen phone they need to take advantage of what you can actually do with more screen real estate.  Simply being able to cram 50 icons on the screen instead of 20 would just make for clutter.

They need to have an iOS emulator as well. Widgets on the Mac are similar to the javascript "wrapped" simple apps that small companies make (basically like a web page with a few scripts in it that links data to the web). So they could make a common reference platform for "web apps" "simple apps and games" and then desktop apps. Only the last one would be OS X only. 

 

It would allow for more cross-pollination -- just don't screw it up like Metro and not allow users to control the behavior. Gawd I hate Windows 8.

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