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Samsung experts say Apple's patented features not valuable in trial - Page 2

post #41 of 132

So Samsung essentially admits it violated Apple's patents, and then fabricates the excuse that the patents weren't that big a deal to begin with?

I so hope the judge/jury see's through the smoke screen and drops a big, granite slab of a hammer right on Samsung's skull.

post #42 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by shahhet2 View Post
 

It seems it's in blood of Korean companies. Look at Samsung or Hyundai in their respective category. No doubt, they have better copy machine engineers to make replica at lower cost with quality HW, but not capable of any innovation on SW.  

Unfortunately cheating seems to also be part of the disposition. Samsung, LG cheated on benchmarks, while Huyndai and Kia cheated on MPG.

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post #43 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by richardk32 View Post
 

They are innovating in other areas, though. They even have a new voice interface. It's called Iris.

 

Har-har! Though Iris would be better as the name of Apple's forthcoming eye-tracking interface.  Right?  

post #44 of 132

If Apple's patents are so worthless, why did Samsung go to so much trouble to steal them, copy them and use them in their products?

post #45 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by richardk32 View Post
 

They are innovating in other areas, though. They even have a new voice interface. It's called Iris.

 

That's a better name than Ana Troc.

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post #46 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by bloggerblog View Post
 

Unfortunately cheating seems to also be part of the disposition. Samsung, LG cheated on benchmarks, while Huyndai and Kia cheated on MPG.

 

The important thing is to show up first on some bar chart. People tend to remember that and forget the rest. Really.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #47 of 132

Korean thieves should be banned from US market. They can sell their knockoff crap in Korea.

post #48 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_C View Post


So, are you on Samsung's payroll or Google's? Most people dislike seeing blatant wrong doing go unpunished...

I am on neither. Most people don't want to believe there beloved company(Google, Apple, Microsoft) can do wrong. What I see is Apple patents something that already existed, then sues whoever else uses it, and that to me is blatant wrong doing. 

post #49 of 132
The samsung are not my style. The apple are my style. I don't like cheap samsung plasitc phones.
post #50 of 132
To prove Apple's patents are worthless, Samsung has released an entirely new concept for the next Galaxy phone: youtube.com/watch?v=ILiLaRXHUr0

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post #51 of 132

I had to deal with Korean companies when I was in commercial banking. Lying is a part of their culture.

post #52 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by richardk32 View Post
 

They are innovating in other areas, though. They even have a new voice interface. It's called Iris.

 

Samsung's copying Dexetra now too!?  ;)

 

http://www.irisbot.com/

post #53 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Powell View Post

It's funny when people think if Apple/Samsung win, they win. Brand loyalty is pathetic.
The lack of brand loyalty is what is pathetic. People who love Apple products love their attention to detail and the investment that make in delivering features the public doesn't know they want but will actually enhance their experience. When companies are allowed to steal that innovation, and compete with Apple using their own designs and investments, it hurts Apple's real customers. The more Apple is distracted by trying to insure customers are not confused thinking they are getting the same features elsewhere, the less they can focus on pushing our platform forward. The Windows theft nearly killed Apple, because they were having to compete with their own tech while the thief sold poor replicas on the cheap.

We are loyal to Apple because they consistently put the end user experience first. The more successful they are the more they can focus on making more great stuff
post #54 of 132
"If these patents are as worthless as Samsung claims, then why don't they just drop them out of their products? They'd lose nothing of any value, by their logic."

You are confusing "patents" with "functionality".

Functionality are the things that are evolve and improve over time.
Software-patents are the things that kill that.
Try putting patents inside your phones instead of functionality, if you want a nice paper-weight.
post #55 of 132
"If these patents are as worthless as Samsung claims, then why don't they just drop them out of their products? They'd lose nothing of any value, by their logic."

You are confusing "patents" with "functionality".

Functionality are the things that are evolve and improve over time.
Software-patents are the things that kill that.
Try putting patents inside your phones instead of functionality, if you want a nice paper-weight.
post #56 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by genovelle View Post

The lack of brand loyalty is what is pathetic. People who love Apple products love their attention to detail and the investment that make in delivering features the public doesn't know they want but will actually enhance their experience. When companies are allowed to steal that innovation, and compete with Apple using their own designs and investments, it hurts Apple's real customers. The more Apple is distracted by trying to insure customers are not confused thinking they are getting the same features elsewhere, the less they can focus on pushing our platform forward. The Windows theft nearly killed Apple, because they were having to compete with their own tech while the thief sold poor replicas on the cheap.

We are loyal to Apple because they consistently put the end user experience first. The more successful they are the more they can focus on making more great stuff


Can I get a Amen!
post #57 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Powell View Post

I am on neither. Most people don't want to believe there beloved company(Google, Apple, Microsoft) can do wrong. What I see is Apple patents something that already existed, then sues whoever else uses it, and that to me is blatant wrong doing. 

Oh I get it.
The iPhone existed but nobody made one.
Apple patented the iPhone
Apple made the iPhone
People bought the iPhone
Now everybody gets to make an iPhone
Because it has always existed.

Right ; )
post #58 of 132

That's right S stand for something.. Samsung or is it Stealing..

post #59 of 132

I particularly love that they COMPLETELY STOLE LINEN from Apple here.

 

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post #60 of 132

Apple made a great product in the iphone and it's still great and took many years to develop.

 

what did Samsung  develop before the iphone came out in smartphone's ? 

 

what did Google develop before the iphone came out in smartphone's ? 

 

 

Both were ripping the blackberry and Windows phone's off....then went great idea let's rip the iphone off.

post #61 of 132
What's funny about that second slide about 'lock screen efficiency' is that Apple ended up stopping using the more rigid slider to allow swiping across the whole screen to unlock. From Apple's pov, sliding across the whole screen is now better. Samsung, who was only intent on copying Apple, didn't even think that their original implementation, or a variation of it, might have been superior to the slider. That's because they weren't actually looking at making stuff better.
Edited by ClemyNX - 4/19/14 at 1:16pm
post #62 of 132
"Samsung experts..." Ha ha ha
post #63 of 132

Samsung PAID experts.

post #64 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Modena360 View Post

I had to deal with Korean companies when I was in commercial banking. Lying is a part of their culture.

Just like banking in general so that's great!
Edited by ClemyNX - 4/19/14 at 1:29pm
post #65 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post

Okay I'll keep in mind that you're just another troll. The line goes back to S. S, S2, S3, S4....  What's after 4 Mr. Troll?

And when did they begin using the S? Oh right, the year the 3GS came out.
post #66 of 132

if you see stealing as competition then fair enough...did u say fair competition ?

post #67 of 132
When Samsung argues that such technology existed before in a different form, then why don't they implement that other form.
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post #68 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Powell View Post

Ok, saying brand loyalty is pathetic is harsh, I get annoyed when that brand loyalty causes you to bash and hate on the competition. Being a fan is great, being a fanboy isn't. In my opinion Apple is stalling innovation with these idiotic patent trials. They're trying to kill the competition in the courtroom instead of the marketplace. 
There is no innovation in using someone else's tech. Theft of innovative efforts is what kills it. Apple stopped innovating after being blindsided by the theft of their mac user interface by windows because of a poorly written license to Microsoft to continue Word and Excel development. It's hard was hard to justify the man hours and investment when there is little or no protection keeping a competitor from taking your efforts and appropriating them with little cost or effort. If Samsung was actually innovating, there would be not trial at all, because they would not be using Apple's tech in their products. They would be doing doing something different, not copying. The hate for Samsung and Google comes from their desire to Hurt Apple. It's evident in their plans to disrupt Apple's launch for instance. This is different from Apple's Approach which view them as partners in iPhone production. Notice that Apple's market plans look to expand the markets they enter. They are not based on trying to keep their competitors from making sales. They focus on selling more of their goods each quarter, competing with themselves.
post #69 of 132

We get a lot of contrarians who come here to tell other people how wrong they are.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #70 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Powell View Post

Ok, saying brand loyalty is pathetic is harsh, I get annoyed when that brand loyalty causes you to bash and hate on the competition. Being a fan is great, being a fanboy isn't. In my opinion Apple is stalling innovation with these idiotic patent trials. They're trying to kill the competition in the courtroom instead of the marketplace. 

Stalling?
Innovation?

Oh, I get
The iPhone costs too much
Innovation means $1.99 or maybe even free.
Can you afford that price?

But what about the pygmies in Africa?
Or the woogies in bajoobies?

The iPhone is too good an idea to belong to just one company!

I have it on good authority (wiki I think)
the UN was about to take over Apple!

Thank god g and S stepped in
and freed the iPhone for the good of all mankind.

Who can begrudge what paltry sums they may have gained for their efforts.
post #71 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatsSvensson View Post

"If these patents are as worthless as Samsung claims, then why don't they just drop them out of their products? They'd lose nothing of any value, by their logic."

You are confusing "patents" with "functionality".

Functionality are the things that are evolve and improve over time.
Software-patents are the things that kill that.
Try putting patents inside your phones instead of functionality, if you want a nice paper-weight.

 

Like the software that handles encoding and decoding streams of data sent and received over a network?

 

Great no more standards essential patents and no more FRAND royalties.

 

Try not using software patents if you want a nice paperweight.

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post #72 of 132
I had an exchange student from South Africa who attended a private, religious school in the US. Out of all the international students, the Korean students were in the majority. Unfortunately the school would constantly have issues with the Korean students disrespecting teachers and students and cheating on tests.

As I dug into this I discovered that the pressure for these students to achieve is incredibly high. In fact, they had to come to the US to pass high school so that they could have a chance to go to college. However I also learned that in Korean culture, it is perfectly fine to lie and cheat to create the illusion of success.

I'd like to say that this is a false stereotype, but after three years of high school and different students, the same scenario played out time and again. They feel no remorse since the ends outweigh the means when showing honor to their family.
post #73 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post
 

We get a lot of contrarians who come here to tell other people how wrong they are.

 

No we don't.

post #74 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by genovelle View Post


The lack of brand loyalty is what is pathetic. People who love Apple products love their attention to detail and the investment that make in delivering features the public doesn't know they want but will actually enhance their experience. When companies are allowed to steal that innovation, and compete with Apple using their own designs and investments, it hurts Apple's real customers. The more Apple is distracted by trying to insure customers are not confused thinking they are getting the same features elsewhere, the less they can focus on pushing our platform forward. The Windows theft nearly killed Apple, because they were having to compete with their own tech while the thief sold poor replicas on the cheap.

We are loyal to Apple because they consistently put the end user experience first. The more successful they are the more they can focus on making more great stuff

 

Brand loyalty is great for a company.  It's an insult to the consumer.  Brand loyalty means your purchasing products based on who is putting it on the market - not because it's the best item for you.  I have no brand loyalty.  I do my research and buy products which fit my need the most, not because of a symbol etched on the exterior.  Whoever has the best product gets my money.

post #75 of 132
Originally Posted by mistercow View Post

Brand loyalty means your purchasing products based on who is putting it on the market - not because it's the best item for you.

 

Not quite…

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post #76 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by DewMe View Post
 

Samsung's defense is like a carjacker stealing a car and after getting busted claiming that they should be let off the hook because they think it was an inexpensive car, "it was only a Ford and not a Mercedes." So the thief gets to assert the value of what they steal? I think a four year old cookie jar thief could come up with a better defense than this. Very pathetic, but with a jury trial you never know how lame of a defense will play to the emotions of the jury members.

 

Also, if all those Apple patented features have "no value" then Samsung should have no problem at all and not suffer any business losses by promptly removing all those "non valuable" features from all of their infringing products. That seems like a reasonable and equitable remedy. Oh, by the way that's exactly what Apple has been asking them and the Android community to do all along, "quit copying our stuff." Only after most of them collectively thumbed their noses and flipped off Apple did the lawyers have to get called in. Now it's all ugly and messy and stupid.

 

I wouldn't lump Samsung's sleazeball business practices and customer contempt (Apple was their biggest customer) with the ethics and morality of an entire nation of incredibly hard working, highly moral, and extremely dedicated people. The USA has had more than it's fair share of sleazeballs (e.g. Enron, most of the companies involved in the subprime mortgage crisis/crash of 2008) so no nation has exclusivity on morality or immorality. It's individuals and individual organizations like Samsung in its dealings with Apple that make you think that the whole system is broken, but it's not. Most people and most organizations play by the rules and respect their customers.

 

I'm still in shock that the greater Samsung organization would jeopardize its global reputation, public image,business relationships, and trustworthiness as a business partner by publicly violating their biggest customer. Being defiant and resorting to further denigration of their business partner and customer, not to mention their customer's customers, is not a way to save face. I hope that Samsung can rescue themselves from this moral crisis and get someone in the chief leadership position who can restore their reputation as a trusted business partner. Even if Samsung "wins" some of these tiny battles in court due to clueless and befuddled juries they'll never be able to get rid of the stink that they've attached to themselves as a trusted business partner. If Apple didn't have so many supply channel dependencies on Samsung they would have jettisoned them at the onset of this situation. No doubt that Apple is trying to exorcise the Samsung dependencies as quickly as they can. This should be a big red flag for all other product vendors looking to source components from Samsung. If you think you're dealing with a trusted business partner or even just a reliable supplier: think again - and watch your back.

Excellent post. I can only think that Samsung have too much pride. They really need to fall on their sword; they will gain more honour from that than from misplaced defiance.

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post #77 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Powell View Post
 

Ok, saying brand loyalty is pathetic is harsh, I get annoyed when that brand loyalty causes you to bash and hate on the competition. Being a fan is great, being a fanboy isn't. In my opinion Apple is stalling innovation with these idiotic patent trials. They're trying to kill the competition in the courtroom instead of the marketplace. 

Go away.

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post #78 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by DroidFTW View Post
 

 

No we don't.

Oh yes we...doh!

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post #79 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercow View Post
 

 

Brand loyalty is great for a company.  It's an insult to the consumer.  Brand loyalty means your purchasing products based on who is putting it on the market - not because it's the best item for you.  I have no brand loyalty.  I do my research and buy products which fit my need the most, not because of a symbol etched on the exterior.  Whoever has the best product gets my money.

I guess you show the same loyalty to your family.

"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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post #80 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Powell View Post

In my opinion Apple is stalling innovation with these idiotic patent trials. They're trying to kill the competition in the courtroom instead of the marketplace. 
The most idiotic post yet. Three lies that clueless posters always repeat about lawsuits: 1) lawsuits hurt innovation, 2) lawsuits cause higher prices, 3) lawsuits give consumers fewer choices. And you posted 2 out of 3. I guess you can't be perfect.

Stalling innovation? Outright lie. Patent lawsuits in the tech world have been around forever. Has innovation stalled the last 30 years? Not one bit. Look at any part of computer tech (processors, memory, displays, storage, cameras....). We have seen considerable advances in technology at a steady pace that hasn't let up. Ever. So much for stalling innovation.

Kill the competition? Another lie. At the end of this trial (like the last one) Samsung will have to pay Apple some money. Samsung isn't going out of business over a lawsuit and neither is anyone else. Even HTC (a much weaker company than Samsung) survived a major Apple lawsuit (and temporary sales ban) without any difficulty.

Now.....let's reverse Apple and Samsung.

Is Samsung or Google stalling innovation? More than Apple, that's for sure. Samsung and Google both have two things in common: 1) they steal IP without permision and 2) they try to minimize the value of others IP. If they are allowed to get away with IP theft, then they are hurting innovation. If companies aren't allowed to protect their IP then they will no longer invest billions in R&D. Patent lawsuits keep thieves in line and let others know IP theft is not tolerated.

Then we have Samsung who are trying to minimize the value of Apples IP. Another direct attack on innovation, and related to theft. If the value can be lowered, then the penalty for theft is also lowered. Nothing like saying those billions of R&D dollars only generated millions in "real world" value. Again, what company is going to invest in R&D without the ability to recoup their investment?

Google is also trying to create a "de-facto standard" to apply to patents. What this means is if I invent something, and it becomes popular, then I lose control of my IP. It will become a "standard" even if I don't want to declare it as part of a standard. Suddenly everyone can use my IP and I have no say over who uses it. And since it's like an SEP I'll get a fraction of licensing fees I could have received had the patent remained under my control.


It's not Apple that's hurting the industry - it's thieves like Samsung and Google.

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