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Apple staffing up for 'very, very serious' mobile payments push - report

post #1 of 74
Thread Starter 
iPhone owners may soon be able to use their device to purchase goods and services at brick-and-mortar businesses as Apple has reportedly begun interviewing senior-level candidates to build an iTunes-backed mobile payments business.



Apple executive Jennifer Bailey, who previously ran the company's online stores, is said to have been meeting with "senior payments industry executives" about joining the iPhone maker to lead the initiative. Word of the talks was first reported by Re/code.

Apple's "ambitions are very, very serious," one source told the publication, though they likely will not come to a head in the near future. Both positions that Apple is attempting to fill -- heads of product and business development -- are usually foundational roles that are filled early in a product development process.

Whispers of an Apple-built mobile payment system designed to leverage the hundreds of millions of credit card-backed accounts in iTunes have been circulating for years, but took on a new urgency earlier this year with a report that Apple was "laying groundwork" for such a move. At the time, it was said that Bailey had been tabbed to spearhead the project and that Apple was in talks with payments giant PayPal as a partner.

According to Monday's report, those talks have been ongoing and conversations were held as recently as last month. PayPal was previously thought to be willing to white label large swaths of its infrastructure for Apple, including logistically challenging areas like fraud prevention.

Earlier this year, AppleInsider discovered an Apple patent filing detailing a touchless secure e-wallet system. Apple CEO Tim Cook has also said that mobile payments were "one of the thoughts behind Touch ID," adding weight to the rumors.
post #2 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

iPhone owners may soon be able to use their device to purchase goods and services at brick-and-mortar businesses . . .

soon. (adverb; in or after a short time)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Apple's "ambitions are very, very serious," one source told the publication, though they likely will not come to a head in the near future.

just not in the near future soon.

how many tick thingies in an appleinsider "soon"?
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post #3 of 74

BOOM.

 

No more standing in line at stores. WOW.

 

Game changer.  Since Android so so unsecure the retail store will not allow simular payments.

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post #4 of 74
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Originally Posted by Pooch View Post

how many tick thingies in an appleinsider "soon"?

In terms of the cosmos (both the physical realm and the TV show) anything within the scope of humanity endeavors is barely a blip on the radar. 1tongue.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

Since Android so so unsecure the retail store will not allow simular payments.

Possibly, but I'm thinking it will be like iBeacons and CarPlay where Apple's devices are better suited but there will be no reason why other OSes won't be able to use the same basic systems that iDevices will need to connect to.

I will also be more shocked if NFC isn't utilized between your iDevice and the retailer's HW. So far there is nothing else that offers a more secure option as NFC's short-range local loop. That doesn't mean BT isn't utilized but the actual exchange needs to be done over something that can't be picked up secretly by any number of people within a 40 foot radius.

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post #5 of 74

Goto Fail, GnuTLS, HeartBleed.   Now isn't the best time to push this. 

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post #6 of 74
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

No more standing in line at stores.

 

I first outlined a plan for that in… ’10, I think it was. Can’t wait to see if it actually happens. I’d love to retire the concept of a cashier from human society.

 

Oh, don’t fret. Menial jobs will still exist. Instead of registers there will be bins at the front of the store where you can place any items you changed your mind on before leaving (which automatically confirms payment). People will still be needed to put those back on their proper shelves.

 

At least until we get a humanoid robot that can carry things and recognize location. Oops, already do.

 

Originally Posted by snova View Post
Goto Fail, GnuTLS, HeartBleed.   Now isn't the best time to push this. 

 

But Apple products aren’t affected. What do they care about anyone else’s systems?

post #7 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
Since Android so so unsecure the retail store will not allow simular payments.

 

I don't recall security concerns ever being a reason why Google Wallet didn't take off.  The most common reason I hear is due to phone carriers blocking it as they wanted a competing solution, Isis, to be the one that people used.  I suspect Apple has paid close attention to where Google Wallet has struggled and will learn from Google's mistakes.

post #8 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

But Apple products aren’t affected. What do they care about anyone else’s systems?

Go To Fail was all Apple. But your point still stands. Apple shouldn't not work for a future product because there were recently some bad security holes made public and patched. There were security holes in the past and there will more in the future. There is potentially bad luck by announcing a product that is then considered unsafe soon after. All Apple can do is try their find solutions to potential problems before they happen, but there will always be the risk of something happening that was completely unexpected.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DroidFTW View Post

I don't recall security concerns ever being a reason why Google Wallet didn't take off.  The most common reason I hear is due to phone carriers blocking it as they wanted a competing solution, Isis, to be the one that people used.  I suspect Apple has paid close attention to where Google Wallet has struggled and will learn from Google's mistakes.

I seem to recall that the NFC or Wallet could be hijacked by another device remotely.

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post #9 of 74
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Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

In terms of the cosmos (both the physical realm and the TV show) anything within the scope of humanity endeavors is barely a blip on the radar. 1tongue.gif
Possibly, but I'm thinking it will be like iBeacons and CarPlay where Apple's devices are better suited but there will be no reason why other OSes won't be able to use the same basic systems that iDevices will need to connect to.

I will also be more shocked if NFC isn't utilized between your iDevice and the retailer's HW. So far there is nothing else that offers a more secure option as NFC's short-range local loop. That doesn't mean BT isn't utilized but the actual exchange needs to be done over something that can't be picked up secretly by any number of people within a 40 foot radius.
I think they'll use BT. And as I stated some time ago (too lazy to repeat it all or search for it), I think your iPhone will be the POS terminal. No need for your personal information to be transferred to the store at all. Your iPhone will send a reference number (generated by Apple who will process payments directly without needing a middle-man like Moneris) to the store that the store can verify via an internally stored encryption key.

There's zero benefits to tapping your iPhone to make a payment over a regular credit card, and there's actually increased risk. Apple can reduce the risk and reduce merchant fees providing real advantages to everyone.
post #10 of 74

~~Apple's "ambitions are very, very serious," one source told the publication

 

Wow, cant wait till they are very, very, very, very, very serious.  Because, you know, very very serious is not, well, as serious as very very very very serious.   8-)/s

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post #11 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I seem to recall that the NFC or Wallet could be hijacked by another device remotely.

 

I never heard that one before.  One thing that's for certain though is that the Google Wallet service was blocked on the two major phone carriers and so consumers weren't able to use it even if they wanted to.  However, you could use Isis on those carriers.

post #12 of 74
Will I be able to classify a purchase and enter comments about what I bought at the time of purchase? If not, my iPhone will just be a heavier, clumsier version of the credit card I already have.
post #13 of 74

Really looking forward to Apple knocking this one out of the park.

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post #14 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inkling View Post

Will I be able to classify a purchase and enter comments about what I bought at the time of purchase? If not, my iPhone will just be a heavier, clumsier version of the credit card I already have.

 

so you don't take your phone with you when you go shopping?

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post #15 of 74

"Staffing up".

 

So 2015 then.

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post #16 of 74
I would like to Apple able to bypass credit card companies entirely. Square is having difficulty, so reported today, since they have to make a profit and pay credit card fees above that.
post #17 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

I would like to Apple able to bypass credit card companies entirely. Square is having difficulty, so reported today, since they have to make a profit and pay credit card fees above that.

 

Same here. I'd rather pay using my iPhone or cash for everything. If Apple can simultaneously figure out a usable Bitcoin implementation at the same time, so much the better. Right now, a person using Bitcoin to pay for a cup of coffee has to report capital gains to the IRS!

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post #18 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooch View Post

how many tick thingies in an appleinsider "soon"?

In terms of the cosmos (both the physical realm and the TV show) anything within the scope of humanity endeavors is barely a blip on the radar. 1tongue.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

Since Android so so unsecure the retail store will not allow simular payments.

Possibly, but I'm thinking it will be like iBeacons and CarPlay where Apple's devices are better suited but there will be no reason why other OSes won't be able to use the same basic systems that iDevices will need to connect to.

Apple iBeacons tech and implementation, likely, will be better than the competition. Samsung has already announced a competing technology named FlyBells. *

http://www.iosrumor.com/2014/02/21/samsungs-ibeacon-is-called-flybell/

* Aside: I used to use FlyBells, but now I wear big boy pants 1biggrin.gif

Quote:

I will also be more shocked if NFC isn't utilized between your iDevice and the retailer's HW. So far there is nothing else that offers a more secure option as NFC's short-range local loop. That doesn't mean BT isn't utilized but the actual exchange needs to be done over something that can't be picked up secretly by any number of people within a 40 foot radius.

I think Apple will add NFC for those societies who already use it for boarding trains, etc.

Apple could also use NFC to quickly establish a secure WiFi or Bluetooth LE connection for more robust data exchange.
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post #19 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Apple could also use NFC to quickly establish a secure WiFi or Bluetooth LE connection for more robust data exchange.

With the connection requires the devices be no more than a couple inches away from each other I'm not see how. BT is typically used to assist with NFC data before the link is made.

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post #20 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inkling View Post

Will I be able to classify a purchase and enter comments about what I bought at the time of purchase? If not, my iPhone will just be a heavier, clumsier version of the credit card I already have.

 

Maybe you will, but even if not, it will save you having to wait in line with all the legacy shoppers and their plastic-that-has-to-be-physically-swiped credit cards.

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post #21 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post
 

"Staffing up".

 

So 2015 then.

I'm not so sure of that.

 

It took Apple nearly a year and a half to integrate Siri into iOS; they acquired that company in its entirety including a functional app.

 

They are trying to hire two senior level managers for very early positions (product director, first biz dev person). They would have to create a roadmap, find key business partners, then hire a team to create the architecture, build the software and framework, write an API, and incorporate with the rest of the operating system following a likely timetable for new functionality which would be a major iOS/OS X release.

 

I don't know if the fourteen months until WWDC 2015 is enough time to get all of that done. It seems unlikely. 

 

It's not like the US mobile payments market is mature. There are a handful of markets (like Japan) where certain mobile payment systems are now entrenched, but that is not the case for most of the world.

post #22 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I seem to recall that the NFC or Wallet could be hijacked by another device remotely.

The 'hijacker' would have to be in real close proximity. Basically a digital form of pickpocket.
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post #23 of 74
Apple, take your time and get this right. There is no imminent threat. Google Wallet has been a massive failure. Square is still pretty niche, and is only a system for accepting payments. If Apple does this right, they can near instantly dominate the space and become a defacto standard.
post #24 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpantone View Post

I'm not so sure of that.

It took Apple nearly a year and a half to integrate Siri into iOS; they acquired that company in its entirety including a functional app.

They are trying to hire two senior level managers for very early positions (product director, first biz dev person). They would have to create a roadmap, find key business partners, then hire a team to create the architecture, build the software and framework, write an API, and incorporate with the rest of the operating system following a likely timetable for new functionality which would be a major iOS/OS X release.

I don't know if the fourteen months until WWDC 2015 is enough time to get all of that done. It seems unlikely. 

It's not like the US mobile payments market is mature. There are a handful of markets (like Japan) where certain mobile payment systems are now entrenched, but that is not the case for most of the world.

Just because it look them that long to include Siri doesn't meant it wasn't ready. And Siri is still in beta so it's not a great analogy. Touch ID was a very fast turn around and helped lay the groundwork for authenticating payments via your fingerprint for ease of use.
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post #25 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadarTheKat View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inkling View Post

Will I be able to classify a purchase and enter comments about what I bought at the time of purchase? If not, my iPhone will just be a heavier, clumsier version of the credit card I already have.

Maybe you will, but even if not, it will save you having to wait in line with all the legacy shoppers and their plastic-that-has-to-be-physically-swiped credit cards.

I suspect you will have the option, during purchase, of selecting/categorizing/identifying certain items:  gift for John;  for church outing (reimbursable);  etc. Other, non-selected items can be categorized after the fact based on SKU. Then, at checkout, you will have the option of ingesting a full itemized receipt either wirelessly or via email.

In the case of grocery shopping (lots of items), you should get the UPC and price/discount/tax for each item. These could be matched against an available industry database for purposes of budget/expense reporting, comparison shopping, etc.
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post #26 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

The 'hijacker' would have to be in real close proximity. Basically a digital form of pickpocket.
Using my suggested system there's nothing to hijack since no personal information or credit card information is ever transmitted.
post #27 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Just because it look them that long to include Siri doesn't meant it wasn't ready. And Siri is still in beta so it's not a great analogy. Touch ID was a very fast turn around and helped lay the groundwork for authenticating payments via your fingerprint for ease of use.

Siri is a great analogy, since we don't know how well the first generation of any new technology/feature will work, whether it be Google Wallet, Siri, Apple's mapping service, FaceTime, etc. Amusingly, you imply that Siri might have been ready before its actual launch, then in the following sentence you claim Siri is still beta although Apple itself does not describe it as such.

 

Touch ID still took a year after Authentec's acquisition, and like Siri, it was a shipping product. Note that Touch ID doesn't need to communicate to anyplace else, unlike a mobile payment system. Plus, if Touch ID fails, one still has the option of using the standard PIN.

 

As far as I know, Apple has not yet opened up Touch ID identification to third party developers for use with their apps. It is mostly valid for unlocking the screen, and optionally available for iTunes/App Store/iBookstore purchase identification. Touch ID cannot be used to valid purchase identity for the Apple Store app right now.


Edited by mpantone - 4/21/14 at 2:35pm
post #28 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

BOOM.

No more standing in line at stores. WOW.

Game changer.  Since Android so so unsecure the retail store will not allow simular payments.

In other news today, the New York Times, who's traditionally been anti-Apple (and likely sucking at Samsung's teat), released a comparison between the new Samsung Galaxy S5 and the seven-month-old Apple 5s announced the following results:

According to The New York Times, the brand new Galaxy S5 really doesn’t complete on any level with the iPhone 5s, which is nearly seven months old at this point.

“By just about every major measure you’ll care about, from speed to design to ease of use to the quality of its apps, Samsung’s phone ranks behind the iPhone, sometimes far behind,” Manjoo wrote. “If you’re looking for the best phone on the market right now, I’d recommend going with the iPhone 5S.”
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post #29 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

I think they'll use BT. And as I stated some time ago (too lazy to repeat it all or search for it), I think your iPhone will be the POS terminal. No need for your personal information to be transferred to the store at all. Your iPhone will send a reference number (generated by Apple who will process payments directly without needing a middle-man like Moneris) to the store that the store can verify via an internally stored encryption key.

There's zero benefits to tapping your iPhone to make a payment over a regular credit card, and there's actually increased risk. Apple can reduce the risk and reduce merchant fees providing real advantages to everyone.

How is BT more secure than NFC?

BT's range is 10 meter versus NFC's 10 centimeter or 0.1 meter. That's a radius difference of 100 which makes the area of NFC 0.031 sq meters v. BT's 314.16 sq meters. That doesn't even consider height which isn't an issue with NFC but with BT that could mean someone on a floor or two above or below being able to capture BT data.

All the other features about encryption or using unique tokens instead of the card number can be done regardless of wireless connectivity.

PS: There is no tapping with NFC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

I would like to Apple able to bypass credit card companies entirely. Square is having difficulty, so reported today, since they have to make a profit and pay credit card fees above that.

That is already part of the iTunes Store bubble with being able to use PayPal and debit cards. It wouldn't be difficult for Apple to add a checking or saving account directly which would also bypass American multinational financial services such as Visa MasterCard, Discover, etc. However, I don't think they will do that. I think they'll work with them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

The 'hijacker' would have to be in real close proximity. Basically a digital form of pickpocket.

With NFC, yes. I'm not sure if it was done via NFC or with BT to Google Wallet but in either case each should be unaccessible remotely by anyone. That should never be accessible until the user has verified their credentials and is actively trying to use it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Just because it look them that long to include Siri doesn't meant it wasn't ready. And Siri is still in beta so it's not a great analogy. Touch ID was a very fast turn around and helped lay the groundwork for authenticating payments via your fingerprint for ease of use.

I think Apple designed the Secure Enclave on their A-series chips to handle more than just your fingerprint.

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post #30 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpantone View Post


As far as I know, Apple has not yet opened up Touch ID identification to third party developers for use with their apps. It is mostly valid for unlocking the screen, and optionally available for iTunes/App Store/iBookstore purchase identification. Touch ID cannot be used to valid purchase identity for the Apple Store app right now.

You are absolutely correct. In fact, Apple's traditional path to allowing a new feature, like Siri or Touch ID, to be available to third-party apps is to open them to Apple apps first. I'm curious to see what WWDC announcements regarding Siri or Touch ID may be made on June 3rd.
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post #31 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

How is BT more secure than NFC?

BT's range is 10 meter versus NFC's 10 centimeter or 0.1 meter. That's a radius difference of 100 which makes the area of NFC 0.031 sq meters v. BT's 314.16 sq meters. That doesn't even consider height which isn't an issue with NFC but with BT that could mean someone on a floor or two above or below being able to capture BT data.

All the other features about encryption or using unique tokens instead of the card number can be done regardless of wireless connectivity.

PS: There is no tapping with NFC.
Nothing wireless is truly secure, so why not use the technology with extended range to allow additional features (like knowing you're approaching the cashier)?

My point is all current systems operate the same. You provide information to the merchant (and their POS terminal) to authorize the purchase. You can swipe your card, insert a chip card or tap your card. In all cases your credit card information is passed to the merchants terminal which then contacts the necessary processor to approve the payment. This requires you to trust the merchant and their system with your data.

In my system your iPhone is the POS terminal. A transaction looks like this:

- As you approach the cashier a connection is established over BT between you and the store.
- The store sends it's merchant ID and purchase price to your iPhone over BT.
- You authorize the purchase using TouchID and select which CC card (if you have several) you want to use.
- Your iPhone establishes a secure connection with Apple. Utilizing the encryption performance (800% faster than previous processors) of the 64bit A7 a very complex encrypted connection can be made. It should be noted that POS terminals often use ARM processors, but add a separate encryption processor to handle the math.
- All that gets sent to Apple is an identifier of which device is calling in, the merchant ID and price, and a token to identify which CC card to use.
- Apple approves the transaction and sends back an encrypted string of data which includes the merchant ID, the price and a reference number.
- Your iPhone sends this string to the merchant.
- The merchant terminal has a stored encryption key that only the store and Apple knows.The store decrypts the data to extract the reference number and verify that Apple did, in fact, authorize the payment. For further security, the store could make a request from Apple to check the reference number. Or, Apple could send one over the Internet at the exact same time and the terminal only has to compare the one from your iPhone to the one Apple sent.
- You leave with your goods.

Now if you can think of any way a hacker in the store is going to be able to get data by listening in to all the BT traffic so they can somehow fool the system to make purchases (which is always the end goal - to steal money) then I'd like to hear them.
post #32 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

Nothing wireless is truly secure, so why not use the technology with extended range to allow additional features (like knowing you're approaching the cashier)?

BT can still be used for additional features, like finding what are essentially iBeacons in your scenario, but that doesn't mean a wireless technology with a 10 meter radius is a better option than 10 centimeter range on a technology designed with a secure loop.

Again, using NFC doesn't mean that BT can't be used as an assist for the less secure part of the transaction.
Quote:
My point is all current systems operate the same.

These technologies work very differently so it's irreverent to whatever PoS system may be in place. Would you be OK with WiFi being used over this system you envision? I wouldn't be. BT is more secure because it's more limiting in range and NFC limits this down to a near impossibility thus making it the best option for a secure wireless transfer of protected data between two points.

Just because Google and other Android-based vendors jumped on NFC before Apple doesn't mean we need to trash the technology.

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post #33 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post

Goto Fail, GnuTLS, HeartBleed.   Now isn't the best time to push this. 

But let me guess: now is the right time to push Bitcoin?

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post #34 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

Now if you can think of any way a hacker in the store is going to be able to get data by listening in to all the BT traffic so they can somehow fool the system to make purchases (which is always the end goal - to steal money) then I'd like to hear them.

 

"- Your iPhone establishes a secure connection with Apple. Utilizing the encryption performance (800% faster than previous processors) of the 64bit A7 a very complex encrypted connection can be made. It should be noted that POS terminals often use ARM processors, but add a separate encryption processor to handle the math.
- All that gets sent to Apple is an identifier of which device is calling in, the merchant ID and price, and a token to identify which CC card to use.

...

- Your iPhone sends this string to the merchant."

 

These would likely be the exploitable steps.  Giving the purchaser that much of a crucial role in the transfer of data is a major drawback.  Your system relies on the iPhone sending data to Apple and then the iPhone sending data to the merchant.  These two processes give room for a hacker to make changes to what is being sent in order to exploit the system.  As a merchant I would be hesitant to agree to a payment system which used the customer as the middle man in such a manner.


Edited by DroidFTW - 4/21/14 at 3:44pm
post #35 of 74

What's the big deal about using an iPhone to pay at a brick and mortar store? If Apple accepts a payment, they just have to turn around and bill your credit card through VISA or whoever. Why complicate matters? I can just use my VISA to start with.

 

Perhaps it makes sense for digital stuff you buy from Apple using Touch ID but groceries or gas…why?

 

If something goes wrong with fraud or stolen card, you still have to contact the bank. Why should people want to make Apple the middleman? And please don't tell me that you won't have to carry a wallet. You'll probably need to carry a wallet for as long as you live.

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post #36 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

What's the big deal about using an iPhone to pay at a brick and mortar store? If Apple accepts a payment, they just have to turn around and bill your credit card through VISA or whoever. Why complicate matters? I can just use my VISA to start with.

Perhaps it makes sense for digital stuff you buy from Apple using Touch ID but groceries or gas…why?

If something goes wrong with fraud or stolen card, you still have to contact the bank. Why should people want to make Apple the middleman? And please don't tell me that you won't have to carry a wallet. You'll probably need to carry a wallet for as long as you live.

Using a digital wallet means:
  • It's centrally stored which means you can erase it all at once thereby making stealing it less fruitful.
  • Instead of giving a retailer your CC or debit number Apple could allow for unique ID for 1) that device, 2) that card/accunt, and 3) even that transaction thereby making stealing it less fruitful.
  • Even if the cards are stored directly on the device in the secure enclave they are more secure than simply printed on a card with your name and expiration date thereby making stealing it less fruitful.


So basically you get the convenience of having no exposed numbers or names, being able to not have to cancel cards if stolen and/or be able to do it in single swoop without trying to remember what was in your wallet and who issued them to you.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

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post #37 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post
 
Using a digital wallet means:
  • It's centrally stored which means you can erase it all at once thereby making stealing it less fruitful.
  • Instead of giving a retailer your CC or debit number Apple could allow for unique ID for 1) that device, 2) that card/accunt, and 3) even that transaction thereby making stealing it less fruitful.
  • Even if the cards are stored directly on the device in the secure enclave they are more secure than simply printed on a card with your name and expiration date thereby making stealing it less fruitful.

VISA is already universal. I'll keep using it until retailers start telling me they don't accept it. If it gets stolen they refund any fraudulent charges anyway.

 

Digital wallet might be convenient for governments, banks and retailers. It does nothing for regular citizens except take them on step closer to being chipped.

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post #38 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

VISA is already universal. I'll keep using it until retailers start telling me they don't accept it. If it gets stolen they refund any fraudulent charges anyway.

Digital wallet might be convenient for governments, banks and retailers. It does nothing for regular citizens except take them on step closer to being chipped.

If you're using any sort of electronic transaction you're purchase is already tracked. If you're using a cellphone the whereabouts of that device are tracked. These technologies can't work without their locations being known. In fact, one of the safe guards in place with credit and debit cards is your card's number being used in strange place, in several places over a large distance in an unreasonably short time, and unusual purchase types that make these companies aware that your card may have been compromised.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #39 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post

Goto Fail, GnuTLS, HeartBleed.   Now isn't the best time to push this. 

But let me guess: now is the right time to push Bitcoin?

those that want to play with fire, are welcome to it.  My understanding is that this is intended to be mainstream.

"Building for the future?! They should be running around reacting to the present!" -John Moltz
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post #40 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post
 
Using a digital wallet means:
  • It's centrally stored which means you can erase it all at once thereby making stealing it less fruitful.
  • Instead of giving a retailer your CC or debit number Apple could allow for unique ID for 1) that device, 2) that card/accunt, and 3) even that transaction thereby making stealing it less fruitful.
  • Even if the cards are stored directly on the device in the secure enclave they are more secure than simply printed on a card with your name and expiration date thereby making stealing it less fruitful.

VISA is already universal. I'll keep using it until retailers start telling me they don't accept it. 

Not sure if you travel the world much, but there are many places which don't accept ANY credit cards.  And places that do accept credit cards, often require the kind you don't have.  For those reasons,  I wouldn't call VISA universal. 


Edited by snova - 4/21/14 at 4:33pm
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