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As Apple's growth slows, media questions if 'patience' & 'resolve' of Wall Street investors will... - Page 3

post #81 of 129
Apple in the last 10 to 12 yeas has released 1 game changing product ever 3 to 4 years!
What innovation slow down.
Innovation slowdown is nothing but media fud. ! Most probably started by samdung and alike !
post #82 of 129

Here's a thought. Why doesn't Wall Street just go f*ck themselves. This is getting so old it's covered in moss....

post #83 of 129
It's insane how Apple gets graded on a curve that no other company can compare to all the while they are being incredibly profitable. At the same time other companies get a free pass for increasing market share without showing a profit. Definitely a double standard that questions the twisted logic of Wall Street.

The good news is that Tim Cook recognizes the value of always delivering customer value and leading the customer to places their customers didn't know could exist, much less exist in the grandeur of Apple design excellence.

The true leaders are those who can move us forward with a sense of purpose in the face of uncertainty and doubt and not be swayed by the fat cat naysayers who are looking for a quick fix to their insatiable need for immediate gratification. Too many Wall Street analysts behave like heroin addicts in need of a fix - right now.

So no matter the level of whining exhibited by the financial crack heads and doomsday analysts I expect Apple to stay the course and do what they do best on their own terms. So far so good.
post #84 of 129
[
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopeless View Post

Hardware, though I assume there's software to go with it, but my sources are hardware.
Very interesting. Thanks.
post #85 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


It was 3 years between the iPhone, and iPad. We are now going on 4 years since the iPad. That's hardly every 6 months.

1) Show me what standard you're holding any other manufacturer to that is in any way similar, or who has come anywhere close to Apple. (And don't say 'Glass'... don't want my milk to shoot out of my nose.)

2) Weren't the same critics who are currently counting iPad in the 'revolutionary' category the same ones who were calling it 'just a big iPad touch' when it came out?

post #86 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

 

Tesla, Google, Facebook, Amazon, Netflix are all 15-20% below their all time high.

 

Fact is in the Tech sector prices go up and down.  If you can't take it don't invest heavy in tech.

Hmm, Nasdaq Went up 32% in last 1.5 years, Dow up 24%, Google up 52%, Amazon up 32%, Netflix up 528%, Tesla up 613%, S&P500 up 30%, While Apple down 23%. (Same last 1.5 years)

It was one of the best 1.5 year for Tech stocks in a decade.

It's not fair to compare bad timing of Apple stock with best time in a decade for Tech and overall stock market, but still that argument is not correct. There are reasons for tech stock or any other stock for that matter to go up and down.

Apple performed best from 2004 to 2012 (For that 8 years and beating every other company out there), and there was reason for that as well.

post #87 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


WS will always fill in any gap, no matter the size. How long after the iPhone was release were there rumors of everything.
Slow innovation wise? I guess only new product lines count as innovation. Six year btw iPod and iPhone. 3 years btw iPhone and iPad.
Actually Sept 2011, Apple was at 400

My mistake. Thanks for pointing it out.

 

AAPL
Sept 2012 - $700
April 2014 - $526

post #88 of 129
Does it really matter ??? Expectations and reality are two different things. No tech company has ever been at the top of its game forever. And WallStreet will always find something that they think has more probability of having a $$$$ reward
post #89 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by shahhet2 View Post

Hmm, Nasdaq Went up 32% in last 1.5 years, Dow up 24%, Google up 52%, Amazon up 32%, Netflix up 528%, Tesla up 613%, S&P500 up 30%, While Apple down 23%. (Same last 1.5 years)
It was one of the best 1.5 year for Tech stocks in a decade.
It's not fair to compare bad timing of Apple stock with best time in a decade for Tech and overall stock market, but still that argument is not correct. There are reasons for tech stock or any other stock for that matter to go up and down.
Apple performed best from 2004 to 2012 (For that 8 years and beating every other company out there), and there was reason for that as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ Web View Post

My mistake. Thanks for pointing it out.

AAPL
Sept 2012 - $700
April 2014 - $526

Why are we choosing an arbitrary point in time?
post #90 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post
 

 

Like what? Watches? TVs? Cars? Airplanes? What exactly? You don’t know do you. All you know is they’ve got to do something, anything, right? Just pick something and do it because Steve is dead?

 

FYI the wearables market is proving to be non existent. Lots of hype but the public isn’t buying. Google is buying everything in sight, robots, drones, self driving cars but what have they actually DONE? Nothing. Chromecast a game changer? Nope. Google TV defining a new paradigm? Nope. Chrome OS and Chromebooks taking over? Nope. 

 

The iPod was released in 2001. SIX YEARS LATER came the iPhone. SIX YEARS! Apple did nothing then either except bring out newer iPod models and updated Macs. Not a single mind bending, world changing product until the iPhone. And THREE YEARS later came the iPad. 

 

But Steve was alive then so it was okay, right?

+1

post #91 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post



Why are we choosing an arbitrary point in time?

I already said that this is not fair comparison in my comment. But it is latest 20 months of time-frame, Where Overall stock market was at its best in a decade while Apple stock decided to go other way, but again, this is not fair comparison.

post #92 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

1) Show me what standard you're holding any other manufacturer to that is in any way similar, or who has come anywhere close to Apple. (And don't say 'Glass'... don't want my milk to shoot out of my nose.)
2) Weren't the same critics who are currently counting iPad in the 'revolutionary' category the same ones who were calling it 'just a big iPad touch' when it came out?

Show me a company that's wowed the world time and time again. Apple has created many paradigm shift, and people expect that trend to continue. You shouldn't be surprised at the 'boos' when there's a lull in the action.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #93 of 129
OK, Let's take a tally of what Apple has accomplished in the 2 years since Steve Job's death. Remember that until next year, they are still executing plans produced by Steve:

1. Polishing:

OS-X Mavericks, the Retina Macbook Pro, and even the iPad Air

Not exactly new - but they completed Steve's vision. In particular, the rMBP took Apple's leadership position in laptops to new heights.

2. Game changers:

The new Mac-Pro: Apple completely re-designed the desktop workstation, and while not everyone was pleased, Apple actually became the #1 selling Desktop vendor because of it.

The A7 chip and 64-bit iOS-7: This is as big a deal as OS-X, even if it's not felt yet. Apple upended the industry by creating a 64-bit phone with true desktop power, and it means iOS software is now a full fledged platform.

3. Late but not out...

-> They bungled Apple Maps, but Apple Maps is still a big deal. SJ could have bungled it too.
-> Apple TV is late because they really do need Steve Jobs for the politics - to get the video content owners on board. But I believe their tech is in place.
-> iWatch: It could have been delayed under SJ, and I think this would be hard to mess up - it's such an obvious killer platform.


All in all, not bad for just 2 years. *IF* Apple TV and iWatch get off the ground, that will be a huge source of new growth.
post #94 of 129

Big Beat!:smokey:

 

I sat out on this earnings, but congrats to all the APPL longs!

post #95 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Why are we choosing an arbitrary point in time?

It's called cherry-picking data/info in order to make his point.

In any, case I don't think anyone is arguing that Apple has underperformed the market recently.

But the most important point is not past performance, but future performance - time will tell.

One more thing he forgot to mention was that Apple started dividends in 2012...therefore adding cash to those existing shareholders.

post #96 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post
 

Big Beat!:smokey:

 

I sat out on this earnings, but congrats to all the APPL longs!

Sweet!

post #97 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by nkhm View Post

This does make me laugh.  Of course growth slows.  You reach a point where everyone has an iPod, then iMac, then iPad, and then apple TV and iWatch - if a company is still making huge profits, then what difference does it make if the rate of growth slows. Profit is profit. And once you're into the billions, the actual amount is irrelevant.

Analysts and investors are pointless to this arena.  Apple need to de-list, become a private company again and do what they do best.  Make great products that people want and make a shed load of money doing so.

DEAD ON TARGET!

Wall Street can bite my shiny metal ass. The smartest thing any public company could do is to go private and snub Wall Street. Wall Street is what destroyed the global economy. In the old days, speculators were frowned upon. Because people had sense.

But greed, and the capitalist obsession with the utterly impossible fantasy of perpetual growth/perpetual profit increases, will keep us trapped in a dangerously unstable anti-economy driven by insanity and foolishness.
post #98 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post
 

Big Beat!:smokey:

 

I sat out on this earnings, but congrats to all the APPL longs!

Results are good(Beat revenue by 5% from projection and earnings by 10%), but stock will move based on outlook from Call. They are doing stock split as well and increased dividend and stock buyback.

That should give some jump to stock price.

post #99 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by shahhet2 View Post
 

Results are good(Beat revenue by 5% from projection and earnings by 10%), but stock will move based on outlook from Call. They are doing stock split as well and increased dividend and stock buyback.

That should give some jump to stock price.

Yeah, I heard about the 7:1 split. Should be interesting.

post #100 of 129
I wish Apple would have bought back $150b in shares when they were under $400. IMHO, Apple will earn $25/share this Xmas qtr. These numbers are staggering for the qtr after Xmas, especially with no new products.
post #101 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post
 

Big Beat!:smokey:

 

I sat out on this earnings, but congrats to all the APPL longs!

 

Thanks! ;)

post #102 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by AjbDtc826 View Post

I feel the same way. Their last major product was the ipad. [...]

 

Having seen and used the Mac Pro in real life in a Mac shop a few weeks ago, I would argue that that was their last major product, engineering-wise.

post #103 of 129

2 pm.  4/32/14.  Apple announces blowout iPhone, services, and Mac sales, with only iPads plateauing for the previous quarter.

 

Apple alludes to major new products and categories coming, while splitting the stock.

 

Facts of Apple's success do not line up with popular meme of Apple's demise.

 

Convo in this thread goes mysteriously silent lol!

 

 

Doesn't matter how much people rag on Apple.  2014 is going to be a great year for the company and its stock.

post #104 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

One thing for sure, at least they aren't STUPID in making Google Glass.  As much attention as that POS was/is making, I think it's going to flop.  I don't think products will be that successful when it's already getting banned at public places BEFORE it actually starts selling.  :-)

Glass has strategic value: it earns Google vital "geek cred" with the slashdotters. That and perpetuating the "open" myth.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply
post #105 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by basjhj View Post

Having seen and used the Mac Pro in real life in a Mac shop a few weeks ago, I would argue that that was their last major product, engineering-wise.
I agree that the new MP is a game changer for desktops, but it's still a desktop. A hell of a computer no doubt.

But how often do u deal with stuff through out the day and say "man, if only Apple can make this and do it right"? I say it a lot, there's so much they can move into. There's blips on the radar but jeez, the whole waiting approach gets annoyingly frustrating at some point.
post #106 of 129
Who gives a **** what the big institutional investors think? My only concern is who's making the best products, and it sure isn't Samsung or Dell or Sony or HP or any of the others in this sector. And I'm not sure what the "next big thing" could possibly be. Wearable computing? Yawn. Something in the TV area? Yawn. Just keep pushing the envelope of portable and hand-held IT equipment and associated software, and I'll be able to do what I want to do. Toys I don't need.
post #107 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


Glass has strategic value: it earns Google vital "geek cred" with the slashdotters. That and perpetuating the "open" myth.

 

I think the only people that have really done anything because of Glass was it gave the media something to write about. I always thought people would get their Glass stolen from them.  There was a recent article about how a journalist got his Google Glass stolen and then destroyed.  I though that would have happened a lot sooner and more often.

 

Oh well, at least I know it's one device I will never buy.   Yeah, it's novelty/fad product. 

post #108 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bwana_Dik View Post

Who gives a **** what the big institutional investors think? My only concern is who's making the best products, and it sure isn't Samsung or Dell or Sony or HP or any of the others in this sector. And I'm not sure what the "next big thing" could possibly be. Wearable computing? Yawn. Something in the TV area? Yawn. Just keep pushing the envelope of portable and hand-held IT equipment and associated software, and I'll be able to do what I want to do. Toys I don't need.

Well, every Apple employee is most likely a shareholder, and a lot of working class people have their retirement money with a lot of these institutional investors with their 401K or some kind of investment program.  Do you own any mutual funds?  If so, many of the better ones have a significant investment in Apple stock, so a LOT of people actually own Apple stock either directly or indirectly through a mutual fund or some sort of retirement program like what a lot of State and Federal employees have, so it's part of our economy and how people can retire when they get at that age.

 

Apple does need to diversify into what they see are new growth areas.  Sure, they need to keep up the pace with what they already have, but they can certainly go after new growth markets wether it's the auto industry, SmartTVs, TV boxes, wearables, etc. etc.

 

Before the iPad, we didn't have anything similar to that at that size, but Apple kind of made tablet computing a reality for a lot of us, that was their insight.  Now they have to look at that next big new trend in computing.

post #109 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bwana_Dik View Post

Who gives a **** what the big institutional investors think? My only concern is who's making the best products, and it sure isn't Samsung or Dell or Sony or HP or any of the others in this sector. And I'm not sure what the "next big thing" could possibly be. Wearable computing? Yawn. Something in the TV area? Yawn. Just keep pushing the envelope of portable and hand-held IT equipment and associated software, and I'll be able to do what I want to do. Toys I don't need.

I don't know if you are aware, but the SmartTV market has grown tremendously over the past few years.  SmartTVs are growing at a very fast rate and it's bound to quadruple and Apple isn't in this market, yet Google/Samsung/Vizio/Sony, etc. are.  If Apple got at LEAST a 1080p line of TVs in the $1500 to $3500 price range and were able to make decent profit margins, which they could since it wouldn't cost Apple that much to add the functionality, they could easily capture 10% of that market very quickly.  That could represent BILLIONS in added revenue and profits and it would OBVIOUSLY migrate the other products Apple currently sells, so it would be adding more functionality to what we already have if we own Apple products.  They could at least do 1080p now and then 4K when it becomes a little more relevant as more 4K content becomes available and prices for panels come down.  

 

The biggest problems these other TV mfg have is they cater to a wider audience which includes the dumb TVs that essentially make no profit.  A 32in TV that sells for $250 makes almost nothing.  All they use it for is to dump cheap panels to people to gain their "market share", which is similar to what Samsung does in the phone market. But Apple's not stupid enough to go for just "market share", they would target a specific market sweet spot where they can play in and make money.  They are just nervous because they THINK that people don't replace TVs that often.  Well, the problem with that thinking is that applies to dumbTVs, but over the years, people have actually replaced their TVs, on average, more quickly than we used to.  I think SmartTVs would eventually become as replaced as computers/tablets since it's more reliant on the computing power and what can be done with faster processors, more RAM, more storage, etc.  I still think if done correctly, Apple could DEFINITELY add more gross sales, more profits, and give Apple users more ways to connect their products.  Apple just has to go after that money that IS sitting there waiting for Apple.  I've seen the Google TVs and I'm not impressed by them, but that's primality because I use Apple products, but that's why Apple has to really hit one out of the park if and when they do enter that market, which I think they should.

 

Wearables is another market and that's coming, it's just a matter of when and how much they stand to make, but I look at wearables as a fairly necessecery thing if they do it properly.  One of the biggest problems companies have is not whether they go into the market or not, but execution.  If it's not executed well, then it's a mistake, if executed well, it can pan out for the better.

post #110 of 129
Do you have a link for SmartTV sales? I know Creepy Eric predicted something about GoogleTV but how did that turn out.
post #111 of 129

Another FUD story put to rest with Apple's latest earnings which show just the opposite. Go write your FUD about Microsoft where it belongs, not Apple!

post #112 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by AjbDtc826 View Post

I feel the same way. Their last major product was the ipad. Everything else is just spec bumps. Don't get wrong, I love my apple stuff n I'm a very happy customer, I just wish they would get involved with other stuff n make them better.

Lets not forget the 2013 Mac Pro.  Its a major engineering feat and I own one.  It is an amazingly fast and compact computer.

post #113 of 129

Counting issue.  Almost 5 months in to the year? Er, um, this is the fourth month.  We are 23 days into it.  So 3 and 3/4ths months it is now.  Yes, we all want the stuff.  Glad to know you are also impatient, though--enough to rush your counting along, too!

post #114 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvigod View Post
  iPad will flatten out and see margin erosion from competition and lower sales.  iPhone will have a huge 2014 boost and maybe 2015 as the mega upgrade to the very late large screen format takes hold.  You'll get two more years of sales roughly where they have been in the last two years as iphone goes up but ipad goes down.  

 

After the mega iphone upgrade cycle competition and lack of innovation on iphone along with no needle movers will mean a continued stagnant market cap.  Apple will make lots of money but won't do much with it.

The iPad is replacing many Laptops,there are  lots more to replace.

The larger screen iPhone moves Apple into a market Samsung has owned.  I know many iPhone users who got a Samsung because of the larger screen, but I also know they  will switch back to the larger screen  iPhone at the end of their contract.

post #115 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by drewys808 View Post

One more thing he forgot to mention was that Apple started dividends in 2012...therefore adding cash to those existing shareholders.

Yes my investment account loves those significant Apple dividends!

post #116 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkyMarc43 View Post
 

Here's a thought. Why doesn't Wall Street just go f*ck themselves. This is getting so old it's covered in moss....


As an active investor I don't take any comments or predictions from Wall Street seriously.

They don't even know when they have screwed up their accounting or sold toxic bonds.

They aren't giving good advise to anyone, just trying to fill their pockets in any way they can.

post #117 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by DewMe View Post

The good news is that Tim Cook recognizes the value of always delivering customer value and leading the customer to places their customers didn't know could exist, much less exist in the grandeur of Apple design excellence.

The true leaders are those who can move us forward with a sense of purpose in the face of uncertainty and doubt and not be swayed by the fat cat naysayers who are looking for a quick fix to their insatiable need for immediate gratification.

Like many I was a bit concerned when Cook took over Apple, without Steve at his side.

However Cook has impressed me many times, he's one of the best business leaders out there!

post #118 of 129
Apple EPS up 15% while the media and wall street sweetheart Google increased EPS by 1%.

No growth?

My asss

Google made $5 profit per share at $530 share price
Apple made $11 profit per share at $530 share price
post #119 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by shahhet2 View Post
 

Hmm, Nasdaq Went up 32% in last 1.5 years, Dow up 24%, Google up 52%, Amazon up 32%, Netflix up 528%, Tesla up 613%, S&P500 up 30%, While Apple down 23%. (Same last 1.5 years)

It was one of the best 1.5 year for Tech stocks in a decade.

It's not fair to compare bad timing of Apple stock with best time in a decade for Tech and overall stock market, but still that argument is not correct. There are reasons for tech stock or any other stock for that matter to go up and down.

Apple performed best from 2004 to 2012 (For that 8 years and beating every other company out there), and there was reason for that as well.

You  are taking far to seriously that Apple peak price of $700+ in 2013. That was caused by hedge fund play.

If you take that big peak out, Apple has been on a steady uptrend in price for several years.

post #120 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechanic View Post
 

Lets not forget the 2013 Mac Pro.  Its a major engineering feat and I own one.  It is an amazingly fast and compact computer.


Also it's selling well, by my observation of of seeing business people carrying one or even two out of the Apple store.

I wouldn't know what to do with it's very high power, else I'd get one.

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