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Apple's $44 billion in stock buybacks have helped increase market cap by $100 billion - Page 3

post #81 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

5 years ago Apple was in a serious growth mode.  Those days are over and I've trying to explain this to you.  As they change from a growth state bringing in lots of yearly growth, the P/E ratios are higher, but since Appe's growth has slowed down (REMEMBER LAST YEAR WHEN THEY TOOK A DUMP) and they started paying dividends, the P/E ratios have DROPPED to know what Microsoft's P/E's look like because Apple's stock is becoming very similar to Microsofts, but you compare the last 12 month P/E ratio swing from high to low to see what the latest levels are at.  As you go from quarter to quarter, you can see how the P/E's are looking because it may change and it may not.  So, P/E's I would only look at their range within the last 12 months, but I would look at the price trends to see how they are trending from a share price perspective.

My reasoning makes sense, you just aren't LISTENING or READING what I'm saying.  Did I not say that Apple is no longer a high growth stock and it's more of a dividend stock?

A year ago, it was around $385 and went up and then took a nose dive because people like yourself get caught up in the frenzy and the professionals that control vast amounts of stocks are playing people like you that pay too much.  Just because the quarterly reports were good for last quarter does't mean they are going to do the same for the present quarter.  What was Cook's projections for the current quarter? And next quarter? Have you seen those?  What happens if Apple doesn't do well in June?  what happens if they don't do well in Sept,

So you are saying the dropped because people like me bought the stock. That makes no sense. The more buyers there are the higher the price gets not lower.

So did you sell your Apple shares yet? If its overvalued you should have sold by now.

You cant compare Microsoft to Apple. Microsoft is growing earnings at 5% while Apple is growing by 15-20%. Not all growth companies deserve the same PE ratio. Neither do all value or dividend companies deserve the same PE ratio. In my opinion i beleive that Apples earnings growth and high future dividend rate deserves a PE of 18. Making $42 of profit per share would put value at $750. Also Apple has considerable more cash and generates far more free cash flows than Microsoft.

Tim Cook himself said the stock is Undervalued. So who am i going to believe? You or Tim Cook? A dude on the internet or the CEO of the company who knows exactly what new products will be released and has thousands of pages of data and internal reports to back up his claims. Do you thing Apple will buyback $90 billion in stock if they thought it was over valued.
post #82 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post



1) Of course it's not down because there are so few companies throughout history that have been in Apple's position but, again, for the last time, THESE ARE NOT CONTRADICTORY EVENTS.



2) Anyone reading this thread, sans you, will see that Apple is a great buy. All you're doing is showing a) how fucking ignorant you are on this rudimentary subject, and b) your inability to educate yourself on the benefits of stock posits, buybacks, and dividends.



3) If you're goal is to keep people from buying Apple from a poorly contrived and invented argument then how can you say you're not trolling… not that I'd expect a troll to admit it.

 



When they bought shares a couple of days ago, it wasn't at a low point, it was at a high point. The 52 week low was under $400 a share, so they bought at closer to a high point for the 52 week range. I think they did it to prevent a massive selloff right when they announced the Stock Split.

No, my goal is to not have people buy when the stock is overvalued. I think it's overvalued or at least very close to that. Look at the stock price last year. It dipped lower during the summer months, so if I want people to maximize their profits for people trying to get into the stock, I would advise them waiting until they see a much lower P/E ratio, because they have traded at a much lower P/E, I think they've gone as low as 11 or slightly lower within the last year. Now, for those expecting the stock to reach $700 like it was last year, I would advise it's not going to happen that soon and they'd be better off just hanging on to the stock, do some dividend reinvestments and wait a few more years and HOPEFULLY it will hit $700 (equivalent).

I'm all for buying low and selling high, which is about as fundamental as possible. I don't see this as a low point moving forward, my gut feeling is that it will move lower within the next 6 months.

I think you are conjuring up misleading statements about MY intentions.. Your intentions are purely selfish ones, mine aren't. I just don't like it when people get suckered into thinking this stock is trading at a low point right now. What also concerns me is the Beta, it's traded at around 1 for many, many years, and it's not. It's at .7, that signifies a different level of stability. I don't like stocks that have erratic behavior. Apple bought stock because they didn't want a massive sell off the next day after their announcement, and I think that's artificially sending people the idea that this stock is going to take off like a rocket ship like it's trading at a low point. I don't think it is, that's all.

What I don't like is getting used to Apple just being the savior of the stock price THINKING they are always going to buy back shares forever when the stock is about to take a dump.

I personally have not been real thrilled with Cooks' method of handling certain things over the past couple of years. He has, IMO, room for improvement. I don't just prescribe to the "I LOVE EVERYTHING THEY DO", just because I'm a fan of the platform. I don't agree with everything that's been done, I do think there's room for improvement and I'm not just going to THINK Cook can't do no wrong, because he hasn't earned a solid A in my book yet. He's got a solid B, maybe B+, but right now, i think he's at a B for me.

Do you know that they haven't made a product announcement in about 7 months? That's a long time for Apple not to make a product announcement. Their last product announcement was in the beginning of Oct, so I could Oct, Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb, March and now April with no product announcements. That's a long time in the high tech industry with a product mix like them.

Holy crap your comments are fucking nuts. I honestly hadn't realized nor expected that eventually you'd come out with these "Tim Cook can't do anything write so anything he does is therefore wrong and anyone that likes Apple is just a fanboy" comments. I really thought this was about you not understanding basic economics whilst willfully trying to remain ignorant, when it's you just trolling against Apple. Shame on you for wasting everyone's time.

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post #83 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post




I told you why I think Apple is still over valued. You just bought at a price I wouldn't have suggested you buy in at and your getting pissed at the messenger. You out paid, IMO, too much. Look at the P/E over the past 12 months, the P/E will guide on being over or undervalued.

So have you sold your Apple stock or not?

If you think its OVER VALUED then you should sell.

I dont know why you are ignoring this simple question.
post #84 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Holy crap your comments are fucking nuts. I honestly hadn't realized nor expected that eventually you'd come out with these "Tim Cook can't do anything write so anything he does is therefore wrong and anyone that likes Apple is just a fanboy" comments. I really thought this was about you not understanding basic economics whilst willfully trying to remain ignorant, when it's you just trolling against Apple. Shame on you for wasting everyone's time.

What?  I have to agree with you on Cook's performance?  I just think he could be doing a better job.  I'm a long time Apple user since '77 with a II+, so I've probably used Apple products longer than probably 90% of the people on this board.  So how about you?  How long have you been an Apple user?

 

Be honest.

post #85 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post


So have you sold your Apple stock or not?

If you think its OVER VALUED then you should sell.

I dont know why you are ignoring this simple question.

I don't directly own any Apple shares, whatever shares I own are in various mutual funds, if they own them or not.  I don't always track every stock they invested in the mutual fund, just the mutual fund's growth rate.    I had Apple stock I purchased in the early 2000's, but I sold many years ago and made a bit of money from it.

post #86 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


1) You don't have to do anything but making irrational statements that you can't back up with nothing more than trollish anti-Apple comments doesn't help any valid criticism you may have once had.

2) Your "claims" of how long you've been using Apple's products and your "claims" of much longer than you've been using Apple product than other members here a) has absolutely no barring on your ability to make rational and/or sane comments, and 2) is as foolish and annoying as those that say, "I own every product Apple has ever made but Apple sucks. Buy Android."

What's YOUR problem?  I've never made a statement such that you are claiming. I own nothing but Apple products and HATE Android.  And?  I don't have to ALWAYS agree with upper management.   I don't always have to agree with every Apple user.  

 

If you can't handle someone being more honest about the current state  of affairs of Apple, then maybe you should look in the mirror.  I haven't said a thing that's anti-Apple..  And what's wrong with wanting products with certain features that they don't have, or having more frequent product releases and having products in market segments they haven't gone into yet?  

 

I can have my own opinion on whether or not a stock is a good value or not, people have the right to agree and disagree.  

 

What happened?  Did you buy stock right after the quarterly reports and you are afraid to admit that you did and that you might have paid too much for the stock?   The other member did, but he's still trying to figure out how he's going to make a profit on the stock purchase.

 

This quarter doesn't look like its going to be that great, so there might not be a 15% year to year quarterly growth rate when they do their reporting for this quarter.  Also, if the other post about the product announcement they plan on making are true and there isn't any other major announcements, it will probably signal a stock drop.  From what it sounds like they are only planning on releasing a new iMac and a lower end Mac, but no iPhone 6.  I'm hoping they announce the iPhone 6, but from the sounds of it, it will be in Sept.

post #87 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


1) You don't have to do anything but making irrational statements that you can't back up with nothing more than trollish anti-Apple comments doesn't help any valid criticism you may have once had.

2) Your "claims" of how long you've been using Apple's products and your "claims" of much longer than you've been using Apple product than other members here a) has absolutely no barring on your ability to make rational and/or sane comments, and 2) is as foolish and annoying as those that say, "I own every product Apple has ever made but Apple sucks. Buy Android."

 

My  "claims"?  I used a Apple II+ and it also had a C/PM card in it.  I didn't much care for C/PM, but I used Visicalc and taught myself how to use it and then later worked for a company out of high school while I went to college at night and used an Apple II+ and Visicalc was the program I used.  My father has also known Jobs PERSONALLY, and worked for a chip mfg that was a chip supplier to Apple for many years.  So, again. What's YOUR problem? 

 

You are really one of these people that are making it difficult to want to be associated with you.  You are making false statements, getting my nerves and becoming a REAL nuisance.

post #88 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post
 

I don't directly own any Apple shares, whatever shares I own are in various mutual funds, if they own them or not.  I don't always track every stock they invested in the mutual fund, just the mutual fund's growth rate.    I had Apple stock I purchased in the early 2000's, but I sold many years ago and made a bit of money from it.

 

So you don't own Apple shares.  Interesting.

post #89 of 137

Stock is at $583 now....

 

dont think its even close to being over valued

post #90 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

 

So you don't own Apple shares.  Interesting.

Not directly.  Again, I'm not trying to explain this from a biased perspective.   i used to when I wanted a long term high growth stock. But right now, Apple doesn't fit that mold.  In a diversified portfolio, I have other stocks and mutual funds at this time and to move some of them over would not make sense at this time because I would have to sell, pay commissions, pay taxes on the profits and it's sometimes better just to leave them where they are until I can save up other money to invest.  But, right now, my personal situation isn't in need of Apple's stock, but if someone came to me asking me my advice, as some have, I would tell them that if they are interested in a stock that gives decent dividends and they is turning into a stock that has some potential growth AND gives good dividends, they might take a look at Apple, but I would caution them just like anyone else about WHEN to buy.   Ultimately, everyone has their own situation, aversion to risk, age levels, etc. etc.  So, everyone will decide to buy/sell a stock for whatever reasons they have.

 

Would you want a stock analyst giving you advice that's using their own personal biases in their recommendations?  I try to remove my bias towards Apple products as much as possible when analyzing the company from an investment standpoint.  I've even caught myself once making the mistake of interjecting my own bias towards Apple and I forgot to really look at the numbers and in the process, I didn't catch a signal that the stock wasn't going to perform and the stock took a major drop, and I usually catch those.  So, just to give you a little perspective, don't get caught up in the excitement of new products, etc because you love the company, products, etc. effect your abilities to recognize flaws in the investment.  My biggest gripe is this.  If Apple was consistently meeting and exceeding decent growth rates (not just one or two months) but consistently having year to year growth in the modest 15% range, and they gave proper guidance as to how Apple was moving forward to give the analysts a better solid reason to always have a "BUY" recommendation, then maybe they wouldn't have to resort to buying blocks of shares to keep the stock price up.  I see these bulk purchases being used as a means to cover up the shortcomings of their ability to execute.  15% was great last quarter from the year before, but moving forward, can they repeat 15% each quarter over a year prior?  The analysts don't all think they can.  Plus, the biggest potential problem is relying solely on just iPhones and iPads as the cash cow. Microsoft had the same problem with Windows and Office, as these companies get bigger they have to get into new markets with new products to lessen the reliance on just iPhones and iPads for revenue.  They kind of want something substantial enough to say, this is the next big thing.  iWatches to me might take some of the slack that the iPods have done, but iPods shrunk to a small portion of the revenue pie.  I think they are looking for something a little more substantial than iWatches to get these guys excited.  They, like a lot of us, were hoping for a SmartTV, but Cook has basically said NO.  is the Apple TV going to be that next big thing this year? Or is it just going to be another small enhancement that won't bring in a substantial amount of new revenue?

 

 I think you are trying to put me down because I recognized that Apple is too expensive to buy right now and you are taking it out on me because you just bought some.  Instead of listening to solid advice by looking into dollar cost averaging, dividend reinvestment and thinking more of just holding on to the stock and kind of appreciating the fact that I would try to give you probably the best most solid advice anyone could give in this situation, you try to damage my reputation.  If you don't believe that the advice i gave you was to help you. Go talk to a PROFESSIONAL financial advisor and get their opinion on what to do. See if they give you better advice than I.  tell them what I advice I told you and get THEIR opinion.


I'm not the type of person that's going to just be a YES MAN and just agree with you.  If I think you are making a valid assessment, I'll let you know, if I think you raised an issue that I didn't see that proves your method is better, I'll let you know.  But I have learned my own way of analyzing a stock/company and if I really sat down with you, it would probably take about  a week of constant going back and forth to give you my full attention on this.   I don't have the time to do that kind of analysis, my time is limited to spend and when you just conjure up put downs and completely take one thing I told you and twist it around to use agaist me, then all i see is a snake.   I told you repeatedly certain things to look at and then you completely ignored them and the conjured up some other way of doing something and then you thought I was crazy. 

 

I will give you the example to refresh your memory.  I told you to evaluate a stock to be over or under valued, you have to look at the P/E and to see what the 12 month high/low was, but then you start comparing them to unrelated companies, then you look at 5 years ago when Apple was in hyper growth mode and I've told you repeatedly they aren't in hyper growth when they were at higher P/E ratios, since they aren't in high growth mode, their P/E won't trade in the 20's and 30's, they trade more in the teens, which is where they are.  But you have to look at their lowest and highest levels from a past 12 month period to see what the high is and what the low is.  When it's low, that's the best time to buy, when it's high, that's the best time to sell.  You bought your shares at around the highest point in the past 12 months.  And I told you that and you are trying to discredit me for buying 50 shares at what I believe to be a high point.  But for some reason, you seem to think that $570 is the new low.  Not yet it is.  Time will tell what the new 12 month low is, but it's certainly not $570.   But to help you look at ways to still make money, i gave you good advice and you never even bothered to thank me.  Well, shame on me for trying to help you and shame on me for even expecting one single acknowledgement of trying to give you some good advice.  So moving forward, please stop trying to attiack me first or twist around my words to suit your own level of whatever you want to call it.  I'm not invested in playing that game.

 

I can certainly go to other sites that have better class of people and maybe i will.  At least I know they don't treat people the way you've treated me.  Same goes with a couple of others here.

 

So if you want to at least thank me for trying to help you look at Apple from a different perspective, that would go a long way, but if not, don't waste my time anymore.  I've got better things to do and more appreciative people that respect my opinion and would be a lot more thankful because I don't like giving bad stock advice.  I may not know everything or make an honest mistake here and there, like ALL people do, but I won't PURPOSELY try to mislead someone.  That's not part of my upbringing and it's NOT part of how I do things.

post #91 of 137

Stock now at $590

 

Buying last week at $570 was a good idea after all.

post #92 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

Stock now at $590

 

Buying last week at $570 was a good idea after all.

Well, if you are a day trader and you actually sold it, you might make about $700 after taxes and commissions.  But, the real question is how long are you going to hold and what price are you going to get and what's your rate of return going to be?

You haven't sold it to make a profit, YET.  Be careful not to fall into the trap a lot of inexperienced traders fall into.  

 

Too bad you didn't know about Apple's big purchase before hand and buy at $535, which was at a lower P/E ratio.

post #93 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post
 

Well, if you are a day trader and you actually sold it, you might make about $700 after taxes and commissions.  But, the real question is how long are you going to hold and what price are you going to get and what's your rate of return going to be?

You haven't sold it to make a profit, YET.  Be careful not to fall into the trap a lot of inexperienced traders fall into.  

 

Too bad you didn't know about Apple's big purchase before hand and buy at $535, which was at a lower P/E ratio.

 

I actually did sell the shares this morning.

 

I still hold 150 shares with a cost basis of $513

 

I won't sell till $650-$750

 

I've been accumulating shares for the past year and a half and held anywhere from 100 shares to 300 shares. 

post #94 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

Stock is at $583 now....

 

dont think its even close to being over valued

Here's a recent Bloomberg article you might want to read.

 

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-04-28/why-apple-has-to-borrow-17-billion?cmpid=yhoo

post #95 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

 

I actually did sell the shares this morning.

 

I still hold 150 shares with a cost basis of $513

 

I won't sell till $650-$750

 

I've been accumulating shares for the past year and a half and held anywhere from 100 shares to 300 shares. 

 

I hate buying into stocks that have already had their 10+ year stretch.  I like to get in at the beginning or somewhere in the beginning of that stretch rather than afterwards. Oh well, two different approaches.

post #96 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post
 

 

I hate buying into stocks that have already had their 10+ year stretch.  I like to get in at the beginning or somewhere in the beginning of that stretch rather than afterwards. Oh well, two different approaches.

 

but such young companies are high risk and high reward.

 

Telsa for example is down 30% from recent highs.

Facebook is down 30%

Twitter down 30%

 

My style is more value instead of growth.  I buy stocks in companies that have under valued stock prices.

post #97 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

 

but such young companies are high risk and high reward.

 

Telsa for example is down 30% from recent highs.

Facebook is down 30%

Twitter down 30%

 

My style is more value instead of growth.  I buy stocks in companies that have under valued stock prices.

Well, I'm not looking at those stocks because they don't fit my mold either.  I have other stocks I'm looking at buying into that look like they have a long term upswing of high growth of at least 10 years.

 

See, there are certain companies that have long term high growth potential because of what they do.  Tesla is a tough call because they might be the first with these fast electric cars that get a lot of public attention, but there are other car mfg like Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar, Porsche, Audi, Lexus, etc. etc. that flat out sell more cars and have been around for a LONG time that have their loyal fan base, etc. that will eventually do the same thing only with their flare and they will eventually start eating at Tesla, and it's risky when it starts happening as Tesla may either grow to the point where they will stick around or they won't.  A new car company for the long term is risky just because it's hard to attract a lot of buyers to that brand to keep it going.


Twitter just doesn't know how to make money, at least the last time I checked.  That's one of these so-called internet stocks that may end up like MySpace.  I don't pay attention to those.  Facebook is just like MySpace only got more famous.  Again, I don't look at that.

 

I just have different criteria that I look at, so those don't fit.

post #98 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post
 

Well, I'm not looking at those stocks because they don't fit my mold either.  I have other stocks I'm looking at buying into that look like they have a long term upswing of high growth of at least 10 years.

 

See, there are certain companies that have long term high growth potential because of what they do.  Tesla is a tough call because they might be the first with these fast electric cars that get a lot of public attention, but there are other car mfg like Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar, Porsche, Audi, Lexus, etc. etc. that flat out sell more cars and have been around for a LONG time that have their loyal fan base, etc. that will eventually do the same thing only with their flare and they will eventually start eating at Tesla, and it's risky when it starts happening as Tesla may either grow to the point where they will stick around or they won't.  A new car company for the long term is risky just because it's hard to attract a lot of buyers to that brand to keep it going.


Twitter just doesn't know how to make money, at least the last time I checked.  That's one of these so-called internet stocks that may end up like MySpace.  I don't pay attention to those.  Facebook is just like MySpace only got more famous.  Again, I don't look at that.

 

I just have different criteria that I look at, so those don't fit.

 

so what stocks are you currently thinking of buying?   I'm honestly interested in what companies you think have a 10 year growth potential.

post #99 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

 

so what stocks are you currently thinking of buying?   I'm honestly interested in what companies you think have a 10 year growth potential.

No offense, but there are things I just simply won't divulge at this time.  I'm still very early in the analyzation process and I'm not 100% sure these are what I want to invest in.  I have to see how many ways I can knock their business model, their company's financials, product line, future direction, competition, etc.  I have certain criteria they have to have, but I don't want any surprises.  These are companies in lines of business I'm not familiar enough with and I'm still trying to see the growth potential. Some people tell me they have a HUGE growth, but I'm trying to figure out if they are full of it or not. Too early to tell.

 

I'm off to lunch, I didn't eat breakfast yet, so I'm in Starvin Marvin mode.  

post #100 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

What's YOUR problem?  I've never made a statement such that you are claiming. I own nothing but Apple products and HATE Android.  And?  I don't have to ALWAYS agree with upper management.   I don't always have to agree with every Apple user.

You think a blanket hatred Android makes you a rational and objective person? Oy vey!
Quote:
If you can't handle someone being more honest about the current state  of affairs of Apple, then maybe you should look in the mirror.  I haven't said a thing that's anti-Apple.

You're not coming across as being "honest" you're coming across as having an irrational hatred for Apple under Tim Cook. Of course, we see a lot of that around here but it's usually the same people that hated Apple under Jobs that are now say "Oh, Apple was great under Jobs, but now under Cook it's a sinking ship." That's how you sound! And, yes, making lying about Apple's current state of affairs is being anti-Apple.
Quote:
And what's wrong with wanting products with certain features that they don't have, or having more frequent product releases and having products in market segments they haven't gone into yet?  

Nothing wrong with wanting it. Here's an example of wanting something: "I wish I could use the government's land to allow my cattle to graze for free." Here's an example of sounding like irrational and crazy: "My cattle can graze wherever they want. I'm a patriot but I don't recognize the US government. Oh yeah, let me tell you what else is wrong with the █████."
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I can have my own opinion on whether or not a stock is a good value or not, people have the right to agree and disagree.  

What happened?  Did you buy stock right after the quarterly reports and you are afraid to admit that you did and that you might have paid too much for the stock?

This is what I'm talking about! Nothing in my statements have eluded to buying any stock recently and if I had bought recently. It just sounds nutzo or you're just not good at forming a coherent defense without trying to make a passive-agressive attack.
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The other member did, but he's still trying to figure out how he's going to make a profit on the stock purchase.

That's simple. You sell when it's higher than when you bought, which means if you bought anytime this year it would now be a profit.
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This quarter doesn't look like its going to be that great, so there might not be a 15% year to year quarterly growth rate when they do their reporting for this quarter.

You didn't think this past quarter was going to be good and it was. Have you ever thought Apple was going to have a good quarter under Cook? (rhetorical question)
Quote:
Also, if the other post about the product announcement they plan on making are true and there isn't any other major announcements, it will probably signal a stock drop.  From what it sounds like they are only planning on releasing a new iMac and a lower end Mac, but no iPhone 6.  I'm hoping they announce the iPhone 6, but from the sounds of it, it will be in Sept.

You mean like they were doing under Jobs? Um, yeah, especially considering there is no precedence for their flagship device to be shipped with the previous year's iOS version. Sure, they could release a new iPhone with iOS 7.x but do you think that's the best option for Apple? Also, is it not possible to think past a 3 month window? I would personally like their products to be spaced out throughout the year but that's just a wish that infers that all other aspects of the R&D, supply chain, and other aspects that make Apple successful have also fallen inline. I am not one to say "Apple should do yada yada because I want it and I know better than Apple but Tim Cook sucks"… as some people do.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #101 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post
 

The whole things is awfully strange and yes, I do believe buying shares to increase the share price and then increasing the number of share to decrease the share price is opposite.  I've never seen this before and I don't think others have either.

 

Well, whatever..

 

I agree with you drblank, it is unusual what Apple is doing. They are desperately trying to get the stock price up. They were hoping dividends and buybacks would be enough, but it wasn't. Apple is now hoping that splitting the stock will reduce the price enough so "new" investors will be interested in owning AAPL.

 

If you recall, March 2012 Apple announced dividends of $2.65 per share and allocated $10 billion for buybacks to be executed over 3 years. At that time AAPL was at $601.

April 2013 Apple increased dividends to $3.05 and buybacks to $60 billion. AAPL $406.

April 2014 dividends increased to $3.29 and buybacks $90 billion. AAPL $524.

 

Two months before both dividend and buyback increases, Einhorn and Icahn were demanding better returns for investors.

How many fanbois here chided them for it? They should be thanking them.

 

February 7, 2013 Einhorn filed a suit against Apple to release capital to shareholders.

February 9, 2014 Icahn pushed for Apple to buy back $50 billion of stock this year.

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post #102 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell View Post
 

 

The fanbois don't like it when someone questions what Tim et al are doing.

 

I agree with you drblank, it is unusual what Apple is doing. They are desperately trying to get the stock price up. They were hoping dividends and buybacks would be enough, but it wasn't. Apple is now hoping that splitting the stock will reduce the price enough so "new" investors will be interested in owning AAPL.

 

If you recall, March 2012 Apple announced dividends of $2.65 per share and allocated $10 billion for buybacks to be executed over 3 years. At that time AAPL was at $601.

April 2013 Apple increased dividends to $3.05 and buybacks to $60 billion. AAPL $406.

April 2014 dividends increased to $3.29 and buybacks $90 billion. AAPL $524.

 

Two months before both dividend and buyback increases, Einhorn and Icahn were demanding better returns for investors.

How many fanbois here chided them for it? They should be thanking them.

 

February 7, 2013 Einhorn filed a suit against Apple to release capital to shareholders.

February 9, 2014 Icahn pushed for Apple to buy back $50 billion of stock this year.

What I read is that they have a low number for institutional holdings.  To me, if I were an institutional buyer that was interested in a dividend stock with some growth, I wouldn't pay the current price.   I just personally think that a lot of the institutional buyers that had Apple in a high growth fund have been selling off and the institutional buyers for a dividend stock aren't biting until the P/E is much lower.   That's what I'm reading between the lines.  What I'm wondering is who was the biggest seller of shares to Apple when they bought their big block of shares last week?  I haven't read about who the seller was.  For some reason, I think they might have cut a deal with 1 or more large holders of the stock, but nothing has been released as to they were.  I think it would be interesting to find that out.

post #103 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell View Post

Two months before both dividend and buyback increases, Einhorn and Icahn were demanding better returns for investors.
How many fanbois here chided them for it? They should be thanking them.

Post hoc, ergo propter hoc.

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post #104 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

 

 I think you are trying to put me down because I recognized that Apple is too expensive to buy right now and you are taking it out on me because you just bought some. 
 

 

But for some reason, you seem to think that $570 is the new low.  Not yet it is.  Time will tell what the new 12 month low is, but it's certainly not $570. 

 

One month latter and I have been proven right.

 

You said not to buy at $570.  I said to load up.  Today we are at $637.

 

Thats a 12% return in 30 days.

 

I'm glad I didn't listen to you and loaded up on 300 shares. 

post #105 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

 

One month latter and I have been proven right.

 

You said not to buy at $570.  I said to load up.  Today we are at $637.

 

Thats a 12% return in 30 days.

 

I'm glad I didn't listen to you and loaded up on 300 shares.

 

WOW.  You are soooooo smart.  Did you sell and recoup that money or are still in it so it goes even higher?

post #106 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post
 

 

WOW.  You are soooooo smart.  Did you sell and recoup that money or are still in it so it goes even higher?


thanks for the compliment. No way on earth am I selling until $700

 

This thing is going waaaaaay higher.  Its 644 right now.  13% up since you told me it was over-valued at $570.

 

We will see $750 this year.  Don't be bitter about it.  If you buy now you still can make a nice 15-20% by year end.

post #107 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 


thanks for the compliment. No way on earth am I selling until $700

 

This thing is going waaaaaay higher.  Its 644 right now.  13% up since you told me it was over-valued at $570.

 

We will see $750 this year.  Don't be bitter about it.  If you buy now you still can make a nice 15-20% by year end.

So, are you going to put your money where your mouth is and guarantee a 15 to 20% increase from it's current state by the end of the year to anyone that buys the stock right now?  And how can you guarantee this growth rate.

 

So  if buy stock right now, and it proves that it doesn't hit 15 to 20% you will pay me that interest amount so I don't lose any money?  Are you willing to put the amount in an escrow account so I have a 100% guarantee?

 

Be careful what you predict, you may be proven otherwise.  Just saying.............

 

When I make a prediction its just a prediction, but I don't tell people that it's a 100% guarantee. But I will state my confidence level behind any prediction.

 

So, what's your confidence level?  If you are 100% confident then put some money in escrow and give people that buy the stock a 100% guarantee.  Are you prepared to do that?  

post #108 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Be careful what you predict, you may be proven otherwise.  Just saying.............

When I make a prediction its just a prediction, but I don't tell people that it's a 100% guarantee. But I will state my confidence level behind any prediction.

1) telling someone to be careful of their predictions and then saying you make predictions that are just predictions doesn't make much sense.

2) Really? I feel as though you make "predictions" that are absolutes, with no qualifying elements, all the time. What did you predict about the Beats rumour 2 weeks ago? I feel like your stated something absolute but I honestly can't recall. (Anyone want to look that up?)

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post #109 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


1) telling someone to be careful of their predictions and then saying you make predictions that are just predictions doesn't make much sense.

2) Really? I feel as though you make "predictions" that are absolutes, with no qualifying elements, all the time. What did you predict about the Beats rumour 2 weeks ago? I feel like your stated something absolute but I honestly can't recall. (Anyone want to look that up?)

When i make a prediction on a stock price, I will tell them what I think the price is going to be for a specific period of time, if i can and I will also give a confidence level, but I will NEVER act like it's 100% guarantee like the other person basically said.

 

When we were discussing the price of Apple stock over the next 12 months, it was at the time when we were discussing it. and at that time, I felt that it wasn't going to hit $750 because of reasons that I stated and I stated a LOT of reasons.  At that time I wasn't confident and that I thought it would be wise to wait until AFTER the stock split happened which is next month and after WWDC to see if they were going to make announcements that would give me a higher confidence level.  Now, WWDC hasn't happened yet.  What I was concerned about are these stock buybacks which are artificially increase the stock price, but increasing the debt Apple owes because it looks like they are leveraging the money in Ireland to pay for the interest.  I at this time, just like I was a month ago, am NOT very keen on this and I really don't want Apple wasting more of that money to buyback stock and increase their debt. Because of two things, it makes that money in Ireland worth less.  First, they have to pay taxes on any money they bring in, so the value of what they have is actually worth far less than what's there.  Secondly, they have to pay interest when they issue bonds and borrow agains that money which makes the company less valuable so to me, the market cap is misleading.  I also am worried about their ability to meet demand and until I see them actually being able to produce higher amounts of product, they might be stifled by not being able to meet higher production levels.  So, I'm very concerned about that.  it's one thing to announce new products and it's another thing being able to meet demand AND increase yearly production levels by 15 to 20%.  It took Apple about 7 months to meet demand for the MacPros.  That's a long time.   Are they going to end up in that same position when they release the iPhone 6?  I don't know.

 

I think you also confuse "PREDICTIONS" with "OPINIONS".  two entirely different things, so don't confuse the two.


I can have an opinion, you may not like it, but I can still have that.  As far as just making statements with nothing to back it up?   I didn't say it was or wasn't going to happen, I was stating my opinion if it WERE to happen and saying that I'm HEARING other people saying things, but I also stated that it remains to be seen until their is a formal announcement from Corporate.  Now, there were other articles that stated that Upper management was pissed off when the Dre video hit, and OBVIOUSLY the deal was delayed and obviously it wasn't bought for $3.2 Billion like the articles were ORIGINALLY suggesting. So, Apple didn't buy out Beats for $3.2 BIlliion did they?  NO THEY DIDN'T.

 

But I was just saying that I didn't WANT them to buy out Beats and that I think it's a HUGE mistake bringing Dre on board. So far, he's done no public appearances while CueBall and Iodine are doing damage control only discussing Jobs ( Like Jobs approved the deal when he didn't) and how great upper management is.  It's called DAMAGE control.


So, again, you seem to twist things around to suit your own level of BS.  I never said the Beats buyout wasn't going to happen, I was only HOPING and gave my reasons.  So, re-read what I said.

post #110 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

When i make a prediction on a stock price, I will tell them what I think the price is going to be for a specific period of time, if i can and I will also give a confidence level, but I will NEVER act like it's 100% guarantee like the other person basically said.

When we were discussing the price of Apple stock over the next 12 months, it was at the time when we were discussing it. and at that time, I felt that it wasn't going to hit $750 because of reasons that I stated and I stated a LOT of reasons.  At that time I wasn't confident and that I thought it would be wise to wait until AFTER the stock split happened which is next month and after WWDC to see if they were going to make announcements that would give me a higher confidence level.  Now, WWDC hasn't happened yet.  What I was concerned about are these stock buybacks which are artificially increase the stock price, but increasing the debt Apple owes because it looks like they are leveraging the money in Ireland to pay for the interest.  I at this time, just like I was a month ago, am NOT very keen on this and I really don't want Apple wasting more of that money to buyback stock and increase their debt. Because of two things, it makes that money in Ireland worth less.  First, they have to pay taxes on any money they bring in, so the value of what they have is actually worth far less than what's there.  Secondly, they have to pay interest when they issue bonds and borrow agains that money which makes the company less valuable so to me, the market cap is misleading.  I also am worried about their ability to meet demand and until I see them actually being able to produce higher amounts of product, they might be stifled by not being able to meet higher production levels.  So, I'm very concerned about that.  it's one thing to announce new products and it's another thing being able to meet demand AND increase yearly production levels by 15 to 20%.  It took Apple about 7 months to meet demand for the MacPros.  That's a long time.   Are they going to end up in that same position when they release the iPhone 6?  I don't know.

I only skimmed that paragraph but what I saw sounded like reasonably stated comments. I think it sounds a little too "sky is falling" but it's doesn't come across as conjecture, opinion or anecdotes stated as a universal, immovable truth that can't be questioned. I even like that you asked a question about how Apple will deal with the 8th gen iPhone.

My personal feeling is there will be supply constraints just I seem to recall for every single year the iPhone has been on the market. The Mac Pro (and the 27" iMac with the friction-stir welding before it) are unfortunate releases for Apple that I think make them look bad but those also aren't high volume, revenue or profit products when compared to the iPhone (or iPad) so I don't think it matter to many people outside of niche crowd. I do wonder why the Mac Pro took zoo long. What was holding it up? And did they know but wanted to get it out before Xmas even though it wouldn't be selling much? I'd think it would have been better to hold off until, say February and then release it with plenty of units to sell, but that's just a guess based on the limited info I have.
Quote:
I think you also confuse "PREDICTIONS" with "OPINIONS".  two entirely different things, so don't confuse the two.

A prediction is an opinion of a future event… or have you mastered time travel?
Quote:
I can have an opinion, you may not like it, but I can still have that.

So long as you state it as such I support you in that effort.
Quote:
As far as just making statements with nothing to back it up?   I didn't say it was or wasn't going to happen, I was stating my opinion if it WERE to happen and saying that I'm HEARING other people saying things, but I also stated that it remains to be seen until their is a formal announcement from Corporate.  Now, there were other articles that stated that Upper management was pissed off when the Dre video hit, and OBVIOUSLY the deal was delayed and obviously it wasn't bought for $3.2 Billion like the articles were ORIGINALLY suggesting. So, Apple didn't buy out Beats for $3.2 BIlliion did they?  NO THEY DIDN'T.

But I was just saying that I didn't WANT them to buy out Beats and that I think it's a HUGE mistake bringing Dre on board. So far, he's done no public appearances while CueBall and Iodine are doing damage control only discussing Jobs ( Like Jobs approved the deal when he didn't) and how great upper management is.  It's called DAMAGE control.

So, again, you seem to twist things around to suit your own level of BS.  I never said the Beats buyout wasn't going to happen, I was only HOPING and gave my reasons.  So, re-read what I said.

What did I twist? I clearly stated it was the perception I recall from your previous comments which is my memory of my opinion of those proceedings. I thought I used sufficient emphasis to state that well. If I was going to present something as a fact I would likely have backed it up with evidence.

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post #111 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


I only skimmed that paragraph but what I saw sounded like reasonably stated comments. I think it sounds a little too "sky is falling" but it's doesn't come across as conjecture, opinion or anecdotes stated as a universal, immovable truth that can't be questioned. I even like that you asked a question about how Apple will deal with the 8th gen iPhone.

My personal feeling is there will be supply constraints just I seem to recall for every single year the iPhone has been on the market. The Mac Pro (and the 27" iMac with the friction-stir welding before it) are unfortunate releases for Apple that I think make them look bad but those also aren't high volume, revenue or profit products when compared to the iPhone (or iPad) so I don't think it matter to many people outside of niche crowd. I do wonder why the Mac Pro took zoo long. What was holding it up? And did they know but wanted to get it out before Xmas even though it wouldn't be selling much? I'd think it would have been better to hold off until, say February and then release it with plenty of units to sell, but that's just a guess based on the limited info I have.
A prediction is an opinion of a future event… or have you mastered time travel?
So long as you state it as such I support you in that effort.
What did I twist? I clearly stated it was the perception I recall from your previous comments which is my memory of my opinion of those proceedings. I thought I used sufficient emphasis to state that well. If I was going to present something as a fact I would likely have backed it up with evidence.

 

Whatever.  What did I saw about the Beats buyout that was a prediction?  I was mentioning my OPINION, and by the way, you never used the term PERCEPTION.  Show me the word PERCEPTION. Maybe you should change your PERCEPTION.  Maybe that's the problem.

 

I make predictions on a stock price, but most of my predictions weren't published, they were only for myself, a couple of friends or my stock broker just to see how accurate I was.  For those that know, I've got a great track record in that WHEN i have a high level of confidence in the future of the company.  Sometimes, I was not as confident and when I'm not as confident, then I'm not as accurate, so I'm trying to tap into that "gut feeling' or whatever you call it to only make predictions when I have a high confidence level.  Right now, I don't have as much confidence in things with Apple.  I try to ignore the hype around things when I can as I know not to get caught up in the frenzy of things. 

 

I've also used other methods which I won't divulge because they are unorthodox methods of predicting things and I've been VERY accurate in many cases and they were things I know little to nothing about.  But I haven't used those methods. It was more of my own private testing or things just happened that I can't explain.  Have you ever had a vivid dream and it comes true almost exactly as depicted in the dream and the events was out of your control?  I've had those types of dreams and it's a little freaky when it happens. Some metaphysical events can't be explained, so I'm not going to try.   I've had dreams where i dreamt that someone was doing something behind my back and I later did some investigation and what I dreamt was exactly what they were doing as I was able to confirm it with tangible evidence.  Kind of scary isn't it?

 

 

I haven't been closely following Apple as much as I did a few years ago. as I saw the writing on the wall as far as their ability to have high growth rates and I'm getting back to studying them a little closer, but I'm still not convinced they are going to have a consistent long term 15 to 20% year to year growth rate in the company's performance.  That may change, but so far, I'm not seeing it.  I think they to do that to support these stock valuations OR Apple has to buy more stock and I'm just not a fan of that.  They can't do that forever and I don't want them to rely on that in order to increase the share value.  I personally think part of why they did the last purchase is because maybe Oppenheimer was retiring and selling stock for all I know.  :-)

post #112 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

...and by the way, you never used the term PERCEPTION.  Show me the word PERCEPTION.

...I clearly stated it was the perception...

There you go.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #113 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


...I clearly stated it was the perception...

There you go.

Well, maybe you need to change your PERCEPTION to coincide with reality.  It might help.......

 

If you are unclear about something I said, ask. I can clarify.  I'm happy to do that.  I know there are some that see only every other word or interpret what they want to interpret and I have to deal with the after math of someone else's misinterpretation because they didn't bother to read and comprehend what i clearly stated.

 

I've asked others various questions and they don't give me an answer or a straight answer.  I find that annoying.  Wouldn't you like it if you asked a question and got a straight answer?

 

I wondering what the odds are on Dr. Dre showing up at WWDC and then if he's going to open his mouth and talk or if he's just there for show.


That is going to be interesting, but what's going to be more interesting is the audience's response and how the media is going to handle it.

post #114 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

So, are you going to put your money where your mouth is and guarantee a 15 to 20% increase from it's current state by the end of the year to anyone that buys the stock right now?  And how can you guarantee this growth rate.

So  if buy stock right now, and it proves that it doesn't hit 15 to 20% you will pay me that interest amount so I don't lose any money?  Are you willing to put the amount in an escrow account so I have a 100% guarantee?

Be careful what you predict, you may be proven otherwise.  Just saying.............

When I make a prediction its just a prediction, but I don't tell people that it's a 100% guarantee. But I will state my confidence level behind any prediction.

So, what's your confidence level?  If you are 100% confident then put some money in escrow and give people that buy the stock a 100% guarantee.  Are you prepared to do that?  

Dude just admit you got it wrong.

You said $570 was too high of a price to pay. One month latter and we hit $644. You were dead wrong. I was right. Just admit it and move on.

What you do with your money is not my concern. If anyone says he can guarantee you a 15% return its a scam.

We see $700 before year end. 90% confidence,
We see $750 before year end. 75% confidence.
post #115 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

When i make a prediction on a stock price, I will tell them what I think the price is going to be for a specific period of time, if i can and I will also give a confidence level, but I will NEVER act like it's 100% guarantee like the other person....

When we were discussing the price of Apple stock over the next 12 months, it was at the time when we were discussing it. and at that time, I felt that it wasn't going to hit $750 because of reasons that I stated and I stated a LOT of reasons.  

First off i never said that this was going to be $750 with 100% certainty.

Second you said the stock was way too expensive at $570 a month ago.
post #116 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

What I was concerned about are these stock buybacks which are artificially increase the stock price, but increasing the debt Apple owes because it looks like they are leveraging the money in Ireland to pay for the interest.  I at this time, just like I was a month ago, am NOT very keen on this and I really don't want Apple wasting more of that money to buyback stock and increase their debt. Because of two things, it makes that money in Ireland worth less.  First, they have to pay taxes on any money they bring in, so the value of what they have is actually worth far less than what's there.  Secondly, they have to pay interest when they issue bonds and borrow agains that money which makes the company less valuable so to me, the market cap is misleading.  

Your knowledge about the Apple buyback is severely lacking. Please educate yourself about what exactly Apple is doing. It would help if you would actually listen to the quarterly earnings conference call and listen to why Cook and Openheimer decided to buyback stock.

First off of all there is no reason for any public company to hoard excess cash. The reason is the cash that Apple holds is only returning 1%. Stockholders would rather have that cash returned to them in the form of dividends and buybacks. The reasoning is the stockholders believe they can achive a greater return than 1%. There is no reason for Apple to hold more cash than what is needed for operations, acquisitions, and extra cash in case of an emergency or the unexpected. Apple already has a cash balance of over $130B and is generating about $45B of free cash flow a year. Even with the buybacks there cash balance will never dip below $100B.

So far the average buyback price was under $500 per share. The stock today is worth $633. Apple has bought back about $45B in shares. That means from the buyback alone Apple has saved shareholders over $10B. Buybacks do not artificially inflate the stock price. Buybacks give each share a larger piece of the company. By the time the buyback is done Apple would have purchased 15-20% of the outstanding shares. That means that each share an investor holds has a bigger stake in the companies profits. Would you rather share $45B in profits between 960 million shares or 800 million shares? With the buyback there will only be about 800 million shares oustanding instead of 960 million before the buyback started.

You also have the tax implications all wrong. The reason Apple is floating a bond is to avoid taxes not pay more taxes. By borrowing money they do not have to repatriate the cash to the US and pay 40% taxes. This in no way devalues the cash held overseas. By borrowing money the overseas cash is not touched. But the real kicker is Apple is not losing any money borrowing money. The reason is they no longer need to pay the 2.5% dividend on the shares they purchased. Plus they get to deduct the interest expense. The bond interest rate is very close to 2.5%. In other words they are basicially borrowing the money for free.

Apple will easily be able to pay off these 5, 10, and 20 year bonds. Apple generates about $15B in US profits which it already pays taxes on. That cash will be used to pay off the bonds in the next 15 years.

It also comes down to common sense. Do you really thing the most valuable company in the world would spend $90B on a buyback for no reason? Do you really think you know more about Apple and finance than their CFO and corporate controller? No doubt Apple has spent thousands of man hours and hundreds of thousands of dollars to figure out if a large buyback was a good idea. And you think you know more than them? Really?
Edited by sog35 - 5/30/14 at 8:17pm
post #117 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

First off i never said that this was going to be $750 with 100% certainty.

Second you said the stock was way too expensive at $570 a month ago.

1) You did write, "We will see $750 this year." which was not qualified in any way.

2) Based on his comments he probably did mean it's overpriced and going to drop but the use of expensive is one I put very closely to value which is specific to the purchaser so I'd have to say that he's probably in the clear if he did use that term.

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post #118 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

First off i never said that this was going to be $750 with 100% certainty.

Second you said the stock was way too expensive at $570 a month ago.

It's the way you promoted it, you make it sound like it's an absolute. I'm just cautious when it comes to investing based on media hype. I just would rather invest in Apple when the P/E is at a lower point at this time in their situation since they aren't in high growth mode. I don't have the same confidence level that they will continue at a 15 to 20% yearly growth rate in terms of gross revenue, net profit and good margins. I'm looking at the trend lines for each of their revenue steams. Want bothers me the most is if Cook is hyping the iPad as the area of growth and the last quarter to quarter growth was down,it makes me nervous. I hope they do have lots of growth but I have to have better confidence in their actual performance. I see the iPod losing steam and would like to see some product refreshes that I haven't seen yet, I would like to see shifts how they roll out iPhones so they don't have these drastic ups and downs with their sales cycles, If you look at eah of their product lines they have this seesaw effect and I would like to see more evenly spaced out product releases to minimize those ups and downs throughout the year and sse a nice upward trend line. I also don't have much confidence in the Beats buyout, none of the three players have a proven track record for building a successful subscription service. I just don't see the Beats app being that great. I tried it, I've tried Spotify and I don't like either of them. I also am looking at it from a perspective of it probably going to take a while for it to get it's act together to be something spectacular, but I don't see the current team doing it. Yes, from my perspective I thought it was say too high. I looked at the 12 month P/E ratio and going into the summer months and knowing that many times when a stock spits it can go down because of profit taking because they an easily just sell off a portion of their holdings. This stock has gone up rather fast and I think a lot of it is based some amounts of hype. I don't like getting caught in these frenzies. What happens if you wake up and because of the stock split or their new earnings report for this quarter comes out and it drops back down? It takes the wind out and then it takes a while to recover. I also told you I wanted to WAIT to make a judgement until AFTER WWDC. WWDC is next week.

You are going off of hindsight, and hindsight is 20/20. And when you get high on yourself, that's when you have to caution. You acted overly confident and you acted like it's going to hit your number by the end of the year without anything to back up your statement. You ran no analysis of your own or are you just believing what an analyst says as long as it makes you feel your stock is going to go up. I know that feeling well. What's the concesus with Wall Sreet? At the time we discussed it, it wasn't that great and I wasn't that confident from my own analysis at the time which I look at. If I don't feel confident, and then I look at what Wall Streett says and it's close to what I think BEFORE looking at their evaluations! then I'm cautious. It's one thing to announce great products, but it has to create an increase in demand and most importantly the company has to SHIP it and still grow from the prior year. Can they do it? I don't know, they didn't do a very good job last year. Then you compound it with various high level management people leaving due to retiring at the same time? I don't know.. I'm waiting for next week to see what happens. Again, YOU OWN STOCK, so you are already going to do whatever you can to damage the reputation of someone that goes against YOU? I'm not doing that. You asked me my opinion and I gave it and I gave what I feel it's going to take for me to think differently and until I see it, I don't just change my position just because the stock goes up or because one analyst releases their opinion. I don't like buying stocks right before a stock split and I'm not a short term player like you. So maybe that's the difference. Either way, no one has a perfect track record at predicting future stock values. Not me,not Wall Street and not you. Right now, you are doing well, but it doesn't you are always going to do well. I don't watch Apple stock on a minute by minute basis because I don't own any and I'm not planning on buying any in the near future, even if it took a huge hit which it can.
post #119 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post
 

You just don't like someone being honest that doesn't buy into everything about Apple to promote your ability to make money on their stock.

 

Buying large blocks of stock back is what raises the stock price, but it only lasts so long.  they only bought the stock less than a quarter ago when they bought the stock the day they made the stock split announcement.   The stock split hasn't even taken effect yet.  Let's see what happens. I didn't say it was going to down or up afterwards, but I know that there is a likelihood of it going down due to some sell offs because it made a large run up, partially due to Apple's stock buyback and Icahn's investment.  And?  There's some media attention which causes some frenzy.  And?  So what?  

post #120 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

You just don't like someone being honest that doesn't buy into everything about Apple to promote your ability to make money on their stock.

LOL that you believe you're being honest. You can't even be honest when you made sweeping racial comments about rap music isn't music because it's just a bunch talent thugs committing crimes.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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