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Apple's iPhone 5c ate up Android while Google's Moto X flopped: why everyone was wrong

post #1 of 228
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Last fall, Google's Motorola group unveiled its Moto X and Apple released its middle-tier iPhone 5c. Across the board, pundits and reporters portrayed the 5c as a grave mistake that got everything wrong while lavishing Google's Moto X with praise. Why were they so incredibly wrong?

iPhone 5c


While we don't have exact sales numbers for either model, it is now clear that iPhone 5c was a remarkable success, not just as 2013's second most popular smartphone of the holiday season (after Apple's top of the line iPhone 5s), but also in its intended strategic roles as both a mid-market smartphone and a compelling Android alternative.69 percent of iPhone 5c buyers were new to iPhone, while 60 percent had switched from an Android phone

Speaking to analysts during Apple's Q2 earnings conference call, chief executive Tim Cook stated that 69 percent of iPhone 5c buyers were new to iPhone, while 60 percent had switched from an Android phone. For the cheaper iPhone 4S, the ratios were even higher (although the sales volumes were much smaller): 85 percent were new to iPhone, while 62 percent switched from Android.

"And so we're incredibly pleased with this," Cook stated.

Of course Cook was pleased! Apple managed to pull off something that had previously seemed completely impossible: it continued to sell premium, luxury class $650 iPhones at prices three times higher than the volume sales of the overall smartphone market, without making significant concessions on either margins and profitability or, more importantly, without giving up valuable market share.

In fact, in the most valuable markets, Apple achieved meaningful (and in some cases incredible) increases in market share. Apple's iPhone achieved 55 percent market share among smartphones in Japan, Cook noted.

The company's corporate controller Luca Maestri drew attention to growth in the very developing markets where analysts had insisted that Apple's iPhone mix was incorrectly priced and configured, stating, "In Greater China, Brazil, Indonesia, Poland and Turkey, iPhone sales grew by strong double-digits year-over-year, and in India and Vietnam sales more than doubled."

Virtually everyone who had offered an opinion about Apple's iPhone mix got everything wrong. Apple not only launched the world's best selling phone with enough innovative features to impress the company's own customers to buy an upgrade, but also managed to convert its "last year" best seller into a lower priced middle tier phone with the ability to win over Android users better than all of the leading Android flagships. Apple was so incredibly successful that it even surprised Apple.

On the other hand, there was no talk from anyone about how many "middle tier" phones Samsung sold, nor even any curiosity about the specific product mix that was driving that "80 percent" ratio of Android phones.

Foolish advice for the successful: be more like the failures



Apple's iPhone sales held ground even as budget phone makers (that is to say, everyone else in the industry) had to slash their prices and scale back in quality to make what Samsung describes as "carrier friendly good enough" products, while watching their high-end sales stagnate and their margins collapse.

Samsung carrier friendly good enough


Apple was the star athlete of 2013, but rather than getting a parade, it got lots of advice to more closely mimic the lessor players that were failing around it. The most outlandish ideas gained so much traction that everything being said toward the end of 2013 pretty much boiled down to repeating the idea that Apple, long the world's most successful mobile company, was in dire trouble in various respects and doing virtually everything wrong.

Recall that critics of the 5c have even recently discussed among themselves whether Apple should quietly discontinue the model, drastically discount it, or simply spend billions on advertising intended to "clear inventory" for the next batch of iPhones due six months from now in October.

That's a lot of unplugged advice being dumped upon the smartest guy in the room, particularly when the reality is that iPhone 5c is selling well and stealing away Android buyers for the majority of its sales.

No concern or condescending advice for Google



In stark contrast, no drastic measures were recommended for fixing Moto X. In fact, even as Google slashed the price there were no concerns being voiced about its ability to sell, to attract new buyers, or even to make nominal amounts of money. There was only some talk about the next Moto X, which whimsically might be called the Moto X+1.

Even the Wall Street Journal couldn't bring itself to describe Google's price slashing of the Moto X (from $550 to $399) as a desperate measure to move inventory. Instead, Rolfe Winkler wrote that the "move continues the assault on its rivals' high margins." And just to get that point across, it put that phrase in the story three times: a headline subhead, a photo caption, and in the first paragraph.


Google cuts its nose to spite rivals' faces


No, I'm not making this up as elaborate satire. This is the kind of apologetic absurdity that now passes for content acceptable to publish in something like the Wall Street Journal.

Despite all the media pampering for Google, the reality in this case was that Motorola lost over $700 million for Google in just the last six months of Moto X sales.

Moto X--and everything else that Motorola attempted during the holiday season--all failed on a scale far worse than Apple at its most beleaguered in the darkest days of 1996, several years after the dead-ended Newton Message Pad, Performas, QuickDraw GX, PowerTalk, Copland and various other boondoggle products Apple had been fruitlessly wasting its remaining resources on began piling up like rotting carcasses in the sun.

Google's $12.5 billion attempt to enter the hardware business resulted in catastrophic disaster worse than the Old Apple under Michael Spindler: institutional failure on a legendary scale. It's not just that nobody noticed. The media can't not be aware. The emperor is just wearing the finest clothes, so it's hard to actually articulate that he is actually, well, for lack of a better word, not actually wearing anything, like what you might call garments.

Nobody in the industry could have possibly expected Google's Motorola group to outsell Apple's iPhone. But why were reporters and pundits so fooled by their own echo chamber of opinion and Android bias that they failed to correctly identify the fates of two products that, to any intelligent, neutral observer, were quite obviously fated to result in additional, continued success for Apple's blockbuster iPhone franchise and additional losses at Google's limping Motorola's unit?

Why do we have to pretend that Google's two year old acquisition-experiment in taking over a commercial failure, the manufacturer that produced the Xoom tablet, is really on the same level as the industrial design and platform development of a far larger company with decades of experience in building hardware and managing a software platform?

By 2012, Google had already firmly established that it was completely incompetent at building and marketing hardware, while Apple had completely decimated the entire portfolio of smartphone vendors that had been the established leaders when iPhone first appeared. As a bonus, Apple had also managed to develop and deliver iPad as a tablet system that strangled the netbook and checked the growth of the entire world's PC producers. Apple wasn't exactly floundering on its back.

Google's 2000s-era web ads begin to collapse



It wasn't a fluke that the Moto X flopped. Google has only ever flopped in its hardware experiments. But make no mistake: Google desperately needs a hardware business, and it knows it needs a hardware business. That's why it has spent incredible billions trying to buy its way into the hardware game, first with Motorola and then with Nest the moment it found a buyer to offload Motorola.

Why the need for a presence in hardware? First, Google's partners have been terrible at implementing Google's reference designs across the board. Additionally, Google just announced results for the March quarter that outlined that the profitability of its core ad business is collapsing, with 26 percent more clicks resulting in 9 percent less revenue. Google just announced results for the March quarter that outlined that the profitability of its core ad business is collapsing, with 26 percent more clicks resulting in 9 percent less revenue.

Compare that against Apple's opposite situation, where its core competency in hardware is progressively getting more profitable as its hardware sales have grown rapidly and into new markets, branching off into new product categories.

Google also detailed that the vast majority of its ad business is stuck on top of the plateauing dinosaur of the desktop PC, and that it hasn't rapidly adapted to the new era of mobile devices (the way that, say Facebook, has). That shouldn't even be slightly surprising to anyone paying even cursory attention to the mobile market.

On mobile devices, Google's ad-centric business is not just failing to generate 2000s-era ad paid ad placement search profits; it's actually failing to replicate the usage patterns that might lead to that ever happening in the future.

Steve Jobs pointed out four years ago that Apple had discovered that mobile users were different from desktop PC users in that they don't start with Google's search in the web browser when looking for entertainment, information or products to buy. They use mobile apps.



"On a mobile device," Jobs noted, "Search is not 'where it's at.' People aren't searching on a mobile device like they do on the desktop. What's happening is that they're spending all their time in apps. When people want to find a place to go out to dinner, they're not searching. They're going into Yelp. They're using apps to get to data on the Internet, rather than a generalized search. And this is where the opportunity to deliver advertising is."

When he said that, it wasn't too surprising because we all knew that. The revenues Google is seeing from mobile are far lower than yesterday's web PC ads, and Google hasn't been able to get a toe into the mobile hardware market where Apple is earning its billions, despite many attempts.

You wouldn't know from mainstream media reports, but Google's latest innovation for reaching mobile ad audiences (launched around the same time as Moto X) is a copy of what Jobs presented three years previously back in 2010.

What you would find from reading media reports is that the iAd that Jobs launched was a "failure" because Apple "slashed its prices" in a desperate bid to find advertisers.

CNET iAD


It's unfortunate that the media kept saying that, because it wasn't true. Most bizarrely, Apple wasn't cutting its rates; it was cutting the minimum spend required to sign up for iAd, from $1 million to $400,000 to $100,000 as the company built out its advertising staff over its first two years.

Apple has big name advertisers paying millions of dollars to participate in iAd, as anyone to listens to iTunes Radio for free knows. In contrast, if you browse third rate content on the web, you'd see lots of Google's ads desperately trying to sell Nexus 7 (a campaign that didn't work so well, which says something about the efficacy of indiscriminately placed display ads).

Google even mocks significant web properties by up putting trash ads on their sites, like this "Find a Wife from Asia" ad in a news story of the San Jose Mercury News. That's even in Google's backyard, and yet nobody in the media seems capable of observing the trajectory of Google's mobile ad efforts, even as they fall all over themselves to castigate Apple's iAd.

Google ad for human trafficking


It's as hard to imagine Apple approving an iAd spot for human trafficking as it is to imagine a reporter skewering Google for "slashing" its ad prices in order to find lowbrow clients who can't afford its million dollar plans. The media didn't even really like to talk about Google's flagrantly illegal ads for illicit drugs, a matter that cost the company a $500 million fine. Compared to that, their own petty hypocrisy is hardly even a story.

Google's Motorola hardware aspirations die in a fire of multimillion dollar losses



A series of attempts to be just like Apple (Google TV, Honeycomb tablets, Nexus phones and tablets, ChromeBooks, buying Motorola Mobility and attempting to develop a hardware business) have ended up as massive, wildly unprofitable failures for Google.
"Moto X is the first in a series of hardware products that Google hopes will supercharge the mother company's software and services" - Steven Levy, Wired
In fact, today's Google looks an awful lot like Apple of the early 1990s: rolling out expensive gadget hardware without a clear purpose; working on lots of conceptual software pies in the sky without any apparent business model, and taking everyone else's advice and running with it until dropping from exhaustion.

Motorola has been such a boondoggle that Google resorted to creative "non-GAAP" accounting in order to hide the fact that its subsidiary lost another $198 million over the last quarter alone. Motorola is now Google's "discontinued operations," the new euphemism for what was supposed to be Google's next big thing.

Just eight months ago, Steven Levy described Google's $12.5 billion purchase of Motorola as "the company's biggest deal ever, far exceeding previous big buys like YouTube for $1.7 billion and DoubleClick for $3.1 billion."

Wired ad for Moto X


In a high production ad brochure posing as a Wired news article entitled "The Inside Story of the Moto X," Levy continued, "What was Google thinking? Finally, we have the answer. The Moto X, announced today, marks the arrival, finally, of the Google Phone. The Moto X is the first in a series of hardware products that Google hopes will supercharge the mother company's software and services."

Instead, just months later Google's entire Moto hardware subsidiary has done nothing but incinerate $704 million across the last two quarters. The whole operation, including a second, even cheaper Moto G phone that also failed miserably, is now not only being sold off for scrap but isn't even being acknowledged by name in Google's financial summary.

And not hardly a peep about any of it from anyone in the media.

iPhone 5c Failure-Creation Science



Instead, over the same period that Google's hardware experiments at Motorola were hemorrhaging hundreds of millions of dollars, the public has been subjected to a constant din of "research" intending to describe exactly how and why Apple's iPhone 5c failed, if not commercially, then at least in some sort of philosophical or metaphorical way.

When Apple's chief executive Tim Cook explained in the company's January earnings call that, for the top of the line iPhone 5s, Apple had seen "growth in that portion of our line despite adding a new phone - an entirely new phone underneath it," analysts were so confused by their own belief system that they decided that this unexpected demand must somehow be upside-down doublespeak.

Asked about how well iPhones, and particularly the 5c, were doing at attracting former Android users rather than just upgrading Apple's own customers, Cook answered, "we particularly saw that [new user growth] on the 5c, which is what we wanted to see."

iPhone 5c not only attracted away lots of Android users; it also managed to outsell every Android flagship, including the vaunted Moto X, but also even Samsung's Galaxy S 4 flagship, the world's top selling Android phone. In fact, in one quarter the 5c managed to outsell a year's worth of sales of a wide variety of Android flagships.

March 22, 2014


Cook's answer prompted an even more pointed question that sought to tease out some evidence supporting the idea that the 5c was indeed the tragic mistake and moribund failure that it had been reported to be over the previous three months.

Asked about the infamous "product mix" that pundits and analysts had been peering at like tea leaves or 2013 channel inventory reports, Cook answered, "the mix was something very different than we thought. It was the first time we'd ever run that particular play before and demand percentage turned out to be different than we thought."

Without anything else to support their faith, believers jumped on Cook's words as the best possible proof that the iPhone 5c was indeed the tragic failure and embarrassment that they'd been saying it was all along, because, as it turned out, Apple made far more money than it had even anticipated being able to make in the winter quarter on iPhones, and it wasn't the 5c that had generated the most profits for Apple.

See? The iPhone 5c was a failure for not being Apple's most successful product at launch. It would also have been a failure if it was, because then the more expensive iPhone 5s would have sold less, resulting in lower revenues. It would also have been a failure if both models had been equally successful, because even there Apple would have been leaving lots of money on the table by not effectively delivering innovation capable of enticing its customers to buy the very best phone it makes.

Even when Apple does the most phenomenal job imaginable and all the planets align into massive profitability, increased market share and fatter cash flows, Apple will forever be a miserable failure because the media desperately wants it to be. Members of the media are still convinced that iPhone 5c is a failure but they are still not sure about Google ever having made even the slightest of missteps because those are not the facts they are looking to report.

Also, telling the truth about what is really happening as a reporter just isn't very polite.

Three more months of searching for "iPhone 5c Global Cooling"



Another three months later, Cook has given even more information about how well iPhone 5c has performed as a middle tier phone in Apple's lineup. Cook almost doesn't seem to be aware of the tech meme that iPhone 5c is a terrible failure that he and everyone else at Apple should be ashamed to have ever released to the public.

Instead, Cook described Apple's mix as moving toward iPhone 5c as early adopters (particularly loyal iPhone buyers) have already bought the 5s phone they wanted. Apple is advertising to the masses, those that might otherwise opt for an Android phone simply because its cheap, promoted in ads or pushed by retail incentives.

Writing just prior to the Apple's most recent earnings call, MG Siegler described Apple's iPhone 5c billboard advertising as "a last-gasp effort to save what will likely be viewed as a clunker of a product," then again wrote later that he believed it was an effort "to try to clear out inventory before the next iPhone emerges."

It sounds like we can expect Apple's next phone to also be "viewed as a clunker of a product," and to fly off shelves just in time to "clear out inventory" for iPhone 7.
post #2 of 228
Amazing article, and right on point. The anti 5c media hysterics has been both hilarious, and pathetic. Not long ago I reqd an article callling it the "biggest failure since the cube". Uh, what?

What's also pathetic is how MG Siegler has become a complete Google shill since joining Google ventures, while he used to be one of the biggest apple advocates online. I expected better from him.
post #3 of 228
I was not wrong. 1smile.gif
I knew that the 5c sold well although the 5s sold a lot more.
post #4 of 228
The main iOS failures:

- Missing true USB ports. Just connect a USB pendrive to share files.
- Missing a decent file system (like the Mac has). Just connect a USB pendrive to see and share files.
- Jailed. Just connect a USB pendrive to share files.
- Sanboxed files and applications. Open any file with any application.
- Expensive. Price should be slashed in half.

Those are deal breakers for hundreds of millions of people. Will Apple learn or will it go the path of the Mac and iOS will eventually become a niche market?
post #5 of 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppeX View Post

The main iOS failures:

- Missing true USB ports. Just connect a USB pendrive to share files.
- Missing a decent file system (like the Mac has). Just connect a USB pendrive to see and share files.
- Jailed. Just connect a USB pendrive to share files.
- Sanboxed files and applications. Open any file with any application.
- Expensive. Price should be slashed in half.

Those are deal breakers for hundreds of millions of people. Will Apple learn or will it go the path of the Mac and iOS will eventually become a niche market?

You are confusing iOS with hardware. Apples isn't heading towards becoming a niche market, in fact it's doing fine in the real smart phone market. That's the one with the money.
I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
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I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
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post #6 of 228
In general I agree with the sentiment here. ( Which is unusual as I don't always agree with DED. )

However there was of course a recent reduction in the 5C price in the very countries which did well last quarter. That indicates that the demand is elastic. They also said the 4S was selling well. The 4 isn't but that might be its age.

So next year a 5C priced at or below the 4S price will sell like gangbusters.
I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
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I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
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post #7 of 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppeX View Post

The main iOS failures:

- Missing true USB ports. Just connect a USB pendrive to share files.
- Missing a decent file system (like the Mac has). Just connect a USB pendrive to see and share files.
- Jailed. Just connect a USB pendrive to share files.
- Sanboxed files and applications. Open any file with any application.
- Expensive. Price should be slashed in half.

Those are deal breakers for hundreds of millions of people. Will Apple learn or will it go the path of the Mac and iOS will eventually become a niche market?

I seldom read a post so wrong. In truth, this maters to, perhaps, a few million people not hundreds of millions. Having file system access is the like you are advocating is the PRIMARY failure of Android and the main reason I don't recommend it to the average person. What you are advocating is a return to the 90's mindset of computing and I am personally happy to leave those concepts in the 90's.
post #8 of 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

In general I agree with the sentiment here. ( Which is unusual as I don't always agree with DED. )

However there was of course a recent reduction in the 5C price in the very countries which did well last quarter. That indicates that the demand is elastic. They also said the 4S was selling well. The 4 isn't but that might be its age.

So next year a 5C priced at or below the 4S price will sell like gangbusters.

I generally do too.

Claiming"failure" is relative anyway. Motorola sold about 6.5 million devices last quarter. For them it's probably a decent showing, an improvement in both numbers and public perception of Motorola as a brand. For Apple 6.5 million would be considered a massive failure of epic proportions, while on the other hand Motorola or any other manufacturer achieving the likely Apple 5c sales numbers would be considered a huge success.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Last fall, Google's Motorola group unveiled its Moto X and Apple released its middle-tier iPhone 5c. Across the board, pundits and reporters portrayed the 5c as a grave mistake that got everything wrong while lavishing Google's Moto X with praise. Why were they so incredibly wrong?
Consider Tesla. Their sales numbers are hardly Lexus-worthy but they still manage to get press reviews that "lavish them with praise" for their accomplishments. I don't think those reviews are "incredibly wrong" either.

In any event the 5c is obviously filling a need in Apple's lineup so it's certainly no failure.
Edited by Gatorguy - 4/26/14 at 5:39am
melior diabolus quem scies
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melior diabolus quem scies
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post #9 of 228

Dilger, why are you obsessed with perpetuating this narrative that analysts and the media have it in for Apple? Every 'editorial' is crammed with 'evidence' that the media downplays Apple's successes and accentuates its failures, and that the opposite is true for Android manufacturers.

 

Frankly you seem to have something approaching an obsession with Google and Android OEMs. 

post #10 of 228
Moto G has been very successful for Moto I think it raised its market share from 1 percent in England to about 6%. Off course iPhone took share from android in most of the xoutries where iPhone gained android has 80% share. The bigger question who took the biggest share out of new smartphone owners?
post #11 of 228
Non of those are failures. Those are personal preferences. And unless you have solid statistics stating otherwise, your 100's of millions quote is WAY off. 10's of 1,000's maybe? Anyway. Those people have other options.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppeX View Post

The main iOS failures:

- Missing true USB ports. Just connect a USB pendrive to share files.
- Missing a decent file system (like the Mac has). Just connect a USB pendrive to see and share files.
- Jailed. Just connect a USB pendrive to share files.
- Sanboxed files and applications. Open any file with any application.
- Expensive. Price should be slashed in half.

Those are deal breakers for hundreds of millions of people. Will Apple learn or will it go the path of the Mac and iOS will eventually become a niche market?
post #12 of 228
I would normally agree with you but he does make a point. I've seen dozens of comments/articles referring to the 5c failure. It's almost a meme at this point. Additionally he cites examples and references articles in a well laid out argument while you provide none. He may exaggerate on a regular basis but that doesn't change the fact this is a well presented and well documented article.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphonious View Post

Dilger, why are you obsessed with perpetuating this narrative that analysts and the media have it in for Apple? Every 'editorial' is crammed with 'evidence' that the media downplays Apple's successes and accentuates its failures, and that the opposite is true for Android manufacturers.

Frankly you seem to have something approaching an obsession with Google and Android OEMs. 
post #13 of 228
And why are you comparing the moto x to the iPhone and a company Google separated Motorola from themsleves and at the end stated they couldn't give the effort needed to make moto a success so they sold it off. Moto x was built in the U.S and only available in the u.s for about 6 months.analysis should of been surprised that it sold any phones in this saturated U.S market.
post #14 of 228
Another great article, exposing the stupid for the idiots that they are.
Edited by hill60 - 4/26/14 at 6:54am
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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post #15 of 228

Were the various analysts and pundits really wrong? Or did they succeed in exactly what they set out to do and manipulate the stock trading public so they could profit handsomely? 

 

Or maybe its a case where they feel they must continue to punish Apple for being the only company that refuses to tow the line and do what the "experts" think is best for Apple. 

 

How many times does Apple need to defy their predictions before they step up and admit that they got it wrong or adjust their methods of forecasting. Or has bashing Apple become so institutionalized in such circles that they fear being ousted by their peers should they Think Different

post #16 of 228
Quote:
Moto X--and everything else that Motorola attempted during the holiday season--all failed on a scale far worse than Apple at its most beleaguered in the darkest days of 1996, several years after the dead-ended Newton Message Pad, Performas, QtuickDraw GX, PowerTalk, Copland and various other boondoggle products Apple had been fruitlessly wasting its remaining resources on began piling up like rotting carcasses in the sun.
[...]
 Instead, just months later Google's entire Moto hardware subsidiary has done nothing but incinerate $704 million across the last two quarters. The whole operation, including a second, even cheaper Moto G phone that also failed miserably, is now not only being sold off for scrap but isn't even being acknowledged by name in Google's financial summary.

It's pretty well-known but perhaps not completely unexpected that the Moto X did not sell much. Motorola was attempting to re-enter a fairly saturated market after having essentially exited it, and as HTC can tell you, when you have low mindshare it's hard to compete against an entrenched player with the marketing muscle of Samsung, even if you make technically superior products. To make matters worse for Motorola, the most visible differentiating feature of the Moto X was hamstrung by being restricted to AT&T for months. So it's pretty fair to call Motorola's first attempt a flop.

 

But I was waiting to see how this article would gloss over the Moto G, because there's no way the Moto G could support its argument when it took Motorola from zero to six percent market share in the UK in three months (e.g. see http://www.kantarworldpanel.com/global/News/Motorola-back-in-the-game-with-Moto-G-success). And "gloss over" would be an understatement.

post #17 of 228
"Google desperately needs a hardware business"

Maybe this is true now, given the choices that Google has made over the last 10 years, but it did not have to be this way. Google makes its money off of search, advertising, web services. If Google had played the role that Steve Jobs had envisioned, Apple would never have moved to compete with Google in these areas.

I wonder how much money Google has lost since Apple introduced its own maps app and how much more google will lose as apple shifts to yahoo and Microsoft. Google should have stuck to its knitting rather than trying to take on apple in hardware. Android may go down as the biggest strategic blunder in tech in the first two decades of this century -- not only is it a money loser for Google as it's own business, it also damaged Google's core business.
post #18 of 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphonious View Post

Dilger, why are you obsessed with perpetuating this narrative that analysts and the media have it in for Apple? Every 'editorial' is crammed with 'evidence' that the media downplays Apple's successes and accentuates its failures, and that the opposite is true for Android manufacturers.

Frankly you seem to have something approaching an obsession with Google and Android OEMs. 

You are so off base. His 'obsession' is with supposed reporters having difficulty reporting facts instead of biased, unfounded opinions.
post #19 of 228
Regarding the iOS Filesystem:

I love iPhone and iPad, but one big obstacle to iPad replacing laptops does seem (to me) to be the lack of an accessible Filesystem. Coming from a PC/Mac perspective, I like the ability to co-mingle different types of files that are related THEMATICALLY -- for a project or school class -- and iPad doesn't seem to provide that ability.

How do people handle that need? Via off-device solutions like Dropbox?
post #20 of 228
The lack of truthful reporting shouldn't be a surprise - just look at politics! But even politicians don't directly pay journalists to write good stories about them (although I guess there is some doubt about who pays the right wing talk radio bigheads to spout equally fallacious scare stories about Obama). That sort of thing is frequently left to the likes of Samsung and Google... and remember all those free Zunes at MS shows? Richard Branson's famous offer of a bottle of Champagne to journalists every time they mentioned the Virgin name in any report about anything?
post #21 of 228

Since Apple is moving towards 64 Bit, anything that's 32 Bit isn't going to do as well.  So that's part of it.

Since Apple is moving towards Fingerprint ID technology, anything that's not isn't going to do as well.  So that's part of it.

Let's face it, the 5C colors weren't exactly what I would call "exciting".

 

Moving forward, if Apple refreshes the 4 inch models this year, much like they did last year, then the 5C gets slimmed down in the number of storage choices and maybe color choices, the 5S becomes the 5SC (Polycarb model) and then a new 4 inch flagship emerges with these potential new features:

 

1.  892.11ac

2.  New processor

3.  Improved camera

4. 2GB

5. Better screen that's more battery friendly?

6.  24 Bit DAC?

7.  More features that might work with wearables they intend to release

8.  Slimmer case (A la iPad)

 

The biggest problem Apple faces is the size of the phone is pretty consistent and the battery life is a concern because I don't think they can use a bigger battery in the 4inch size case, but if they improve the guts, how much of an impact will it have on the battery since battery technology hasn't really changed all that much and will probably be a while until it does. I think that's a concern with regards to how much they can really do without making the product a lot thicker (which I think is out of the question).

post #22 of 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppeX View Post

The main iOS failures:

- Missing true USB ports. Just connect a USB pendrive to share files.
- Missing a decent file system (like the Mac has). Just connect a USB pendrive to see and share files.
- Jailed. Just connect a USB pendrive to share files.
- Sanboxed files and applications. Open any file with any application.
- Expensive. Price should be slashed in half.

Those are deal breakers for hundreds of millions of people. Will Apple learn or will it go the path of the Mac and iOS will eventually become a niche market?

 

What part off this do you not get? We have just seen, right before our eyes, that market share in the mobile universe is not something you want to crow about. You can hammer away at that meme if you like but Apple is living proof that market share is not the holy grail. The ONLY thing the Android universe has is market share. It doesn’t have the quality, it doesn’t have the software, it doesn’t have the ecosystem, it doesn’t have the developers, it doesn’t have the revenue, it doesn’t have the profits, hell it doesn’t even have the usage for that matter.

 

As for your typical nerd requirements, no, hundreds of millions of people are NOT looking for these things. They are looking for something easy to use, reasonably priced, something they can send email with, watch movies, send texts, and an ecosystem that won’t infect their device every time they install something.

post #23 of 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

In general I agree with the sentiment here. ( Which is unusual as I don't always agree with DED. )

However there was of course a recent reduction in the 5C price in the very countries which did well last quarter. That indicates that the demand is elastic. They also said the 4S was selling well. The 4 isn't but that might be its age.

So next year a 5C priced at or below the 4S price will sell like gangbusters.

 

No. Apple introduced a 8GB iPhone 5C at a lower price than the 16 or 32 GB models. They didn't lower the price of the latter two.

post #24 of 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppeX View Post

The main iOS failures:

- Missing true USB ports. Just connect a USB pendrive to share files.
- Missing a decent file system (like the Mac has). Just connect a USB pendrive to see and share files.
- Jailed. Just connect a USB pendrive to share files.
- Sanboxed files and applications. Open any file with any application.
- Expensive. Price should be slashed in half.

Those are deal breakers for hundreds of millions of people. Will Apple learn or will it go the path of the Mac and iOS will eventually become a niche market?

And how much of the Android products are 64 Bit?

 

Can't you share files through wireless(whether it's WiFi, Bluetooth, or cellular), I mean, isn't that the whole point of having wireless data transmission in the first place?  Yeah, I know a lot of PC users seem to be stuck to hanging on to old ways of doing things.  the only reason I connect my phone to a cable is for charging it.  I haven't connected it to a computer in a LONG time.

 

Open any file with any application?  Hmmm.  The last time I checked, I don't normally open up Excel files in Word or pdf reader, or open up a Word file in Excel, etc.   In order for me to understand the importance, give me an example of where you currently open files in apps other than the app you created the file in?  Give me at least 5 examples so that I can see it's actually really necessary.  I don't know of any Anrdoid user that has mentioned this being something they actually do.

 

You aren't going to see Apple play the price game.  IT doesn't create lots of financial stability because it forces the company to go into the 1% 6% Net Profit margin category and that's why all of the PC mfg. are hurting.

 

Apple is NOT interested in going after the price range that isn't profitable just to get market share.  They aren't interested in destroying their margins, just to go after market share.  Market share only LOOKS impressive from a percentage standpoint, but from a financial stand point, how many Android companies, other than Samsung, are financially healthy as a result of their low cost model?  Samsung's only healthy because they make the guts inside due to them being component mfg. so the costs to Samsung for memory, NAND, screen, and processor is less than if they weren't a component mfg.

 

Of all of the Android using friends that I know on a personal level (which are less because most of them have switched on their own without me having to peer pressure them), the only two reasons are screen size for those that bought a screen larger than 4inch OR they just bought some piece of crap obsolete Gingerbread phone on sale for $100 unlocked because they just want more of a feature phone that's a smartphone.


I think a lot of Android users that are using 4.5inch or larger phones would easily switch back to Apple once Apple announces the larger screen models. I already know of a couple that plan on doing this, so I think the Android market is going to erode quite a bit once Apple gets into the larger screen models. Oops. There goes Android market share.

 

Did you hear that?  I think I just heard the sucking sound of Anrdoid's market share starting to happen.  Why do you think Samsung has to give away their S5's?  Because a lot of people know the iPhone 6 is right around the corner.


Edited by drblank - 4/26/14 at 7:13am
post #25 of 228
I don't know how Tim Cook can say 85% of purchasers go the iPhone 4S are new to iOS . When I purchased one for my wife from an Apple store no one asked me any questions like this and when I took out a monthly contract for an iPhone 5 no questions were asked either.
post #26 of 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onhka View Post
 

 

No. Apple introduced a 8GB iPhone 5C at a lower price than the 16 or 32 GB models. They didn't lower the price of the latter two.

Apple introduced a 8GB 5C?  In what country?  On Apple's US site, they only have 16GB and 32GB listed.   I thought that was a 4S they did that with.

post #27 of 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppeX View Post

The main iOS failures:

- Missing true USB ports. Just connect a USB pendrive to share files.
- Missing a decent file system (like the Mac has). Just connect a USB pendrive to see and share files.
- Jailed. Just connect a USB pendrive to share files.
- Sanboxed files and applications. Open any file with any application.
- Expensive. Price should be slashed in half.

Those are deal breakers for hundreds of millions of people. Will Apple learn or will it go the path of the Mac and iOS will eventually become a niche market?

Hello,

 

whatever you said welcome malware like anything. Please!

post #28 of 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dachar View Post

I don't know how Tim Cook can say 85% of purchasers go the iPhone 4S are new to iOS . When I purchased one for my wife from an Apple store no one asked me any questions like this and when I took out a monthly contract for an iPhone 5 no questions were asked either.

Market surveys. . .1wink.gif
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post #29 of 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dachar View Post

I don't know how Tim Cook can say 85% of purchasers go the iPhone 4S are new to iOS . When I purchased one for my wife from an Apple store no one asked me any questions like this and when I took out a monthly contract for an iPhone 5 no questions were asked either.

They don't have to ask you, they can just look it up by your account.  If you already have an Apple ID, then they know you are a repeat customer.  If you create a new ID, then they know you are a new to the platform customer.

post #30 of 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Apple introduced a 8GB 5C?  In what country?  On Apple's US site, they only have 16GB and 32GB listed.   I thought that was a 4S they did that with.

It just happened a few days ago and only for selected countries: Netherlands, Italy, Belgium, Sweden, Poland, and the Czech Republic to name a few.

EDIT: Island Hermit has a longer list of countries in the next post.
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post #31 of 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post
 

Apple introduced a 8GB 5C?  In what country?  On Apple's US site, they only have 16GB and 32GB listed.   I thought that was a 4S they did that with.

 

U.K., France, Germany, Netherlands, Italy, Belgium, Sweden, Poland, Czech Republic, Ireland, Portugal, Austria, Spain, Norway, Finland, Denmark, Switzerland, Hungary, and Luxembourg

 

... at Apple online stores in those countries and some carriers in U.K., France and Germany.

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post #32 of 228
Reporting drama where it often does not exist is an old ploy for the media whether it be TV, radio, print or the web. By portraying Apple as the Goliath and Android as David a fantasy is set in place and the press will do its best to make this story unfold with opinion articles not based on more than guts feelings or ad money from Google and Samsung for their publications. Dramatic headlines move papers and generate click throughs. Reporting using facts is dull and won't keep a reader for long.

I always get a kick from some guys that always know what Apple should do with their products as if Apple needed their advise. Add USB port, no add 2 USB ports, double the size of the batteries so I can have a 7 day charge, put a projector on the iPhone so I can sell my TV and save some space.... These are the same people that would then say the phone is too heavy, thick and expensive. Apple is run and operated by brilliant people with the skill to produce products that are sophisticated yet appeal to the mass market. I cannot think of another company that can does this so well and with such consistency.
post #33 of 228
Thank you Daniel--the one voice of reason and sense in a league of morons.
post #34 of 228
The Moto X was a pretty interesting phone and I think it deserved the attention it got. That it didn't manage to translate into sales (like the HTC One) while Samsung's inferior Galaxy series dominate the Android market is quite perplexing. One can only assume it's mainly down to advertising spend buying mindshare.

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post #35 of 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

The Moto X was a pretty interesting phone and I think it deserved the attention it got. That it didn't manage to translate into sales (like the HTC One) while Samsung's inferior Galaxy series dominate the Android market is quite perplexing. One can only assume it's mainly down to advertising spend buying mindshare.
.

Just goes to show that positive reviews does not translate into increased sales.
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"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #36 of 228

The question being... is the lower end of the phone market, where Apple is seeing phenomenal growth,  the largest growth area in these countries?  ... and will putting the 5S in the 5C slot this year drive even more growth compared to the 5C?

 

I've always maintained that Apple can do better in the lower end. I think that iOS is driving the majority of these lower end sales and Apple could do even better than what we see currently if people are given a phone that they really want. I think the 5S is that phone.

 

Until now, though, Apple couldn't put a 2nd tier phone into the mix that would compete too heavily with the top end phone. This fall I see a killer larger phone (I'm talking 4.7 to 5) that will dominate the top end, even with the 5S driving more sales as the second tier phone.

 

I have said this since the 5C came out. Next year (2014) will be the killer year if Apple puts out a bigger phone and keeps the 5S in the second tier.

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post #37 of 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerryb View Post

Reporting drama where it often does not exist is an old ploy for the media whether it be TV, radio, print or the web. By portraying Apple as the Goliath and Android as David a fantasy is set in place and the press will do its best to make this story unfold with opinion articles not based on more than guts feelings or ad money from Google and Samsung for their publications. Dramatic headlines move papers and generate click throughs. Reporting using facts is dull and won't keep a reader for long.
Absolutely. I think it has less to do with bashing Apple than as journalist they feel the need to 'bring something new to the table'. To report that Apple is doing well as expected is very dull.

I am not sure the 'anti Apple propaganda', if you can call it that is bad for Apple. Apple has always thrived on the underdog, 'think different', status, and this kind of perpetuates that. Amazingly. Apple is hardly the underdog. But I do think it pisses commentators and journalists off that Apple marches to its own beat, like they are totally irrelevant. 1smile.gif
Quote:
I always get a kick from some guys that always know what Apple should do with their products as if Apple needed their advise. Add USB port, no add 2 USB ports, double the size of the batteries so I can have a 7 day charge, put a projector on the iPhone so I can sell my TV and save some space.... These are the same people that would then say the phone is too heavy, thick and expensive. Apple is run and operated by brilliant people with the skill to produce products that are sophisticated yet appeal to the mass market. I cannot think of another company that can does this so well and with such consistency.
Yes, this has been going on forever. Specially that Apple should get into the corporate market and produce lower priced feature limited coumputers. That song has more or less died since the advent of the iPad, but a few years ago the call was like a broken record.
post #38 of 228

If the goal of the 5c was to create a different manufacturing paradigm than all of the other devices in the Mac, iPhone, and iPad lines, then I suspect that the jury is still out. 

 

Unlike the competition though, Apple has plenty of time to fine tune the 5c hardware design and the marketing campaign. Moto X did not have that luxury because Google wasn't really behind a long campaign to make it successful; its goals were well served by the Android OEM's especially Samsung.

 

My own spin on this (kudos to Leica for the T btw) is that Apple has established a premium build that exemplifies the brand; anything less than that is going to require quite a bit of education to sell to the masses. Ultimately, I believe that Apple will be successful with the 5c paradigm, albeit not on the scale of the machined models.

 

Interestingly, there is a film on Netflix about wine, "RedObssession", that explores how the French have successfully marketed their top premium wines to the newly rich Chinese, but have been unable yet to expand that beyond a very few "names", a similar problem to Apples that will require marketing effort. The essence is that as the Chinese become more educated in wine, they will begin to experience a wider range of wines, and become a large, stable market.

post #39 of 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterbob View Post

Moto G has been very successful for Moto I think it raised its market share from 1 percent in England to about 6%. Off course iPhone took share from android in most of the xoutries where iPhone gained android has 80% share. The bigger question who took the biggest share out of new smartphone owners?

Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post

It's pretty well-known but perhaps not completely unexpected that the Moto X did not sell much. Motorola was attempting to re-enter a fairly saturated market after having essentially exited it, and as HTC can tell you, when you have low mindshare it's hard to compete against an entrenched player with the marketing muscle of Samsung, even if you make technically superior products. To make matters worse for Motorola, the most visible differentiating feature of the Moto X was hamstrung by being restricted to AT&T for months. So it's pretty fair to call Motorola's first attempt a flop.

But I was waiting to see how this article would gloss over the Moto G, because there's no way the Moto G could support its argument when it took Motorola from zero to six percent market share in the UK in three months (e.g. see http://www.kantarworldpanel.com/global/News/Motorola-back-in-the-game-with-Moto-G-success). And "gloss over" would be an understatement.
So you think that Motorola's success in the UK impeaches the OP's thesis? In the USA, we have a saying: "That's the exception that proves the rule." Your fixation on the Motorola's success in the UK reminds me of a product introduction in the 1980s. That was the Coca Cola formula change to "New Coke." New Coke was a success in Detroit, Michigan. However, it was a failure everywhere else, its success in Detroit notwithstanding.

Motorola's success in the UK must be replicated in other markets for it to be significant. Taken on its face, Motorola's success in the UK may be important when compared to other Android phones from not Samsung. Seen in that light, Motorola's 6% market share may be significant. However, Apple has about 30% market share in the UK cell phone market. Apple's market share in the UK is 5 times Motorola's market share.
post #40 of 228
Originally Posted by AppeX View Post
The main iOS failures:

- Missing true USB ports. Just connect a USB pendrive to share files.
- Missing a decent file system (like the Mac has). Just connect a USB pendrive to see and share files.
- Jailed. Just connect a USB pendrive to share files.
- Sanboxed files and applications. Open any file with any application.
- Expensive. Price should be slashed in half.

Those are deal breakers for hundreds of millions of people. Will Apple learn or will it go the path of the Mac and iOS will eventually become a niche market?

 

You did mean this as a joke, right?

 

 

YOU DID MEAN THIS AS A JOKE, RIGHT?! You have to put sarcasm tags of some sort on this kind of thing.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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