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ComiXology ceases iOS in-app purchases following Amazon acquisition - Page 2

post #41 of 128
I'm glad you can speak for "most people". You might want to take note that the overwhelming majority of people I've seen commenting on forums from several sites aren't happy Amazons decision and most aren't blaming apple.

I could care less if apple gets 30%. In fact. I would care if they DIDNT get some cut of the cost.

Do nothing? Sure. If you consider the bandwidth and technical sustainment requirements nothing. Or the fact they created one of the best mobile and tech ecosystems there is. Sure that is nothing. Of the fact that in order to remain profitable themselves, they have to make sure their consumer and partners are happy and profitable.

Is it worth 30%. That's debatable. But they do deserve something.

If you hate apple so much for their horrible predatory practices of charging customers and partners while providing no thriving ecosystem, no high quality devices on which to use third party apps, and no 'storefront' for 100's of 1000's of businesses...then yes, they've done absolutely nothing. Not a fanboy. I can just appreciate what apple, and amazon do. In this case I just think apple is deserving of a piece of the action based on their accomplishments.

Now my 2 cents. In my opinion they will take a hit on sales. Is it a Herculean task to go to the website and purchase. No. But I won't be using the app anymore. I'll use the marvel app (until amazon screws that up too) and the DC one. I don't care about making sure amazon doesn't lose any money from that thieving apple. I want convenience (although most of my purchases are impulse) when I buy. If amazon doesn't want to provide me that then they should build up their own successful ecosystem that provides me with what I need so they don't have to pay apple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkVader View Post


Actually, most people do care a bit, they're not happy with Apple for taking 30%.

And they shouldn't be, it's highway robbery.  Apple does literally nothing, and takes 30%.  I know many of you are complete Apple fanbois, but try to get some objective concept of what's going on here.  First Apple releases a closed platform that we have to hack to be able to run so we can run software on our own devices without Apple's approval.  Then Apple comes out with this app store where they demand a 30% profit for doing nothing but hosting the app - and unless you have jailbroken, there's no other way to get the app.  That's bad enough, but then Apple insists on taking a 30% cut of anything bought inside the app - even though there is no need for that to go through Apple at all. 

It's extortion.  "We've got all these customers locked up, they're ours, we own them.  You can't sell to them unless you pay us."

I'm not a big fan of Amazon, but at least they're refusing to pay Apple's extortion.  Every developer should.
post #42 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

I've yet to find a single comics app that really works well on the iPad. The text is always a bit too small. It's one area where I feel a larger iPad would come into its own. Another couple of inches or so would make all the difference.

Do you use the guided view? It is small for me if I don't zoom in but the guided view makes it a lot better.
post #43 of 128
"Another couple of inches or so would make all of the difference". That's what my girlfriend said too ;-)
post #44 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by charliealebrije View Post

Amazon has enough money so good luck
I delete my app......

 

Deleted the app the first day it was was announced Amazon bought the company.

post #45 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by djkikrome View Post

I love how everyone wants to make money off apple devices but no one wants apple to see a dime either. And without apple, they would be making nothing. Apple made it possible, I see it only fair they get a percentage for making it all possible on their device.

 

Amazon and Google are competing or trying to compete with Apple on several fronts it's time for Apple to cut them out of the Appstore and let them make it on their own instead grafting themselves into Apple. Apple isn't making software on their crappy ecosystems, there's no profit in it for anyone.

post #46 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkVader View Post
 


And whose fault is it that you can't buy via the Kindle app?

 

I'll give you a hint, it's not Amazon, but it does start with an A.

 

Apple didn't tell Amazon to remove IAP from the Kindle app.

Amazon didn't want to pay Apple to host content on Apple's servers.

It's always the app developer's choice. But Amazon is pleased that you blame Apple for Amazon's choice.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #47 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by SalmanPak View Post
 

LOL! People's reactions aren't as hilarious as they were when Google bought Nest, but it's pretty close.

 

Nest is on it's way to being canceled, Google has no ability in hardware other than a facade of success.

post #48 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkVader View Post
 


Actually, most people do care a bit, they're not happy with Apple for taking 30%.

 

And they shouldn't be, it's highway robbery.  Apple does literally nothing, and takes 30%.  I know many of you are complete Apple fanbois, but try to get some objective concept of what's going on here.  

 

Apple has stated that the App Store is running at break even.

This is more of the "Apples are overpriced and greedy" meme that has been floating around since the days of John Sculley.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #49 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by JavaCowboy View Post

I bought a lot of comics on Comixology so I thought I would try buying a comic under the new system. It's definitely not as convenient as the old system, but with the help of 1Password, it wasn't that painful. All I had to do was browse for comics within the app and add the one I wanted to my wishlist. Then, I logged into comixology.com from 1Password, accessed my wishlist and then autofilled my credit card details.

Yes, it's definitely a step back, but I don't think that Comixology users will abandon the platform en masse, especially if they're invested a lot in comics already.

If Amazon wants to provide their own payments infrastructure and sidestep Apple's, somewhat inconveniencing users, then that's their right. If it's the wrong decision, I'm sure they'll have the metrics from lost customers to make it obvious.

And, for the record, I do not agree with the ruling against Apple in the eBooks case, just in case you thought I was pro-Amazon.

 

Then Amazon would be happy if Apple kicked them out of the Appstore for being the parasite that they are. They want the benefits of the iOS ecosystem (access to users) but they don't want to pay for it. Apple should just pull the plug on Amazon and Google the other parasitic squatter company.

post #50 of 128
Originally Posted by Danox View Post

Nest is on it's way to being canceled, Google has no ability in hardware other than a facade of success.

 

I wouldn’t be too sure.

 

Personally, I want Google to shut down (or be forced to shut down) their entire software division and focus on self-driving cars. They’ve done pretty well with that. I’d trust the company if they had no way of caring about my personal information. And I’m only against their move into home automation because I want Apple to do the same thing.

 

“But… surely your interests and searches on the Internet are far more innocuous data than what they’d receive by knowing EVERYWHERE you go and HOW you live your life at home?”

 

Indeed. But that data can’t be whored out to advertisers like what they do now. First, there’s no venue to which ads can be pushed. Second, I doubt it would be legal.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #51 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post


And here I was thinking Apple makes a huge profit on the sale of their ios devices. Do you also think Ford needs to gets cut of a sale when a real estate agent uses one of their cars?

 

Amazon wants access to iOS ecosystem for free, if Amazon wants to compete with Apple should make sure they stand on their own two feet in every way financially. Apple has been far too nice to Amazon and Google within the Appstore.

post #52 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post


Wow, congratulations on your well thought out comment.

Amazon has followed Apples rules for publishing an app, they have to reason to give Apple any money. If Apple thinks they need to then maybe they should change the rules for their store, and then watch the number of apps decrease.

As for your well thought out comment, the agent doesn't have their ad on all fords, just like Amazon doesn't have their app on all IOS devices

 

Ass still owned by Mr. toilet paper.

post #53 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post


What a stupid comment.

The Walmart analogy I've used in the past is far more appropriate. Let's say I have a vending machine and I want to install it in a high traffic location to increase sales. I choose Walmart because they are always extremely busy. Do you think Walmart should let me place my machine in their store without getting a cut? I'm taking up a certain amount of square footage in their store, collecting money from customers who came to see Walmart (not my vending machine) and making a profit using the "assets" of a well established store.

IMO, Apple is too lenient. Apple has to host the App for Amazon, pay for all the server costs and bandwidth (including repeat downloads every time there's a patch or update), give Amazon access to their 800 million account holders (which is bigger than Amazons own customer base) and let users of the App buy stuff where Apple gets no money.

 

 

Bingo!

post #54 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkVader View Post
 


Actually, most people do care a bit, they're not happy with Apple for taking 30%.

 

And they shouldn't be, it's highway robbery.  Apple does literally nothing, and takes 30%.  I know many of you are complete Apple fanbois, but try to get some objective concept of what's going on here.  First Apple releases a closed platform that we have to hack to be able to run so we can run software on our own devices without Apple's approval.  Then Apple comes out with this app store where they demand a 30% profit for doing nothing but hosting the app - and unless you have jailbroken, there's no other way to get the app.  That's bad enough, but then Apple insists on taking a 30% cut of anything bought inside the app - even though there is no need for that to go through Apple at all. 

 

It's extortion.  "We've got all these customers locked up, they're ours, we own them.  You can't sell to them unless you pay us."

 

I'm not a big fan of Amazon, but at least they're refusing to pay Apple's extortion.  Every developer should.

 

It's Apple's App Store, DUMB

post #55 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkVader View Post
 


And whose fault is it that you can't buy via the Kindle app?

 

I'll give you a hint, it's not Amazon, but it does start with an A.

 

It's Apple's App Store, DUMB AGAIN.

post #56 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Except that the actual contents of the vending machine are not in the store. You're paying for the product at Walmart but they're not the ones that deliver the product. It's more like Mastercard telling Walmart "your customers are using us to pay for products from you, so for that convenience we charge 30%". No store is going to agree with those terms.

 

Amazon is squatting in the Appstore, very simple.

post #57 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danox View Post

Amazon and Google are competing or trying to compete with Apple on several fronts it's time for Apple to cut them out of the Appstore and let them make it on their own instead grafting themselves into Apple. Apple isn't making software on their crappy ecosystems, there's no profit in it for anyone.

Agreed
post #58 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danox View Post

Amazon is squatting in the Appstore, very simple.

No it's not that simple. All that Apple is housing is the app, not the content. Amazon is housing the content, and making delivery. I'm not saying Apple shouldn't get anything, but 30% is way too much.
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post #59 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danox View Post

Then Amazon would be happy if Apple kicked them out of the Appstore for being the parasite that they are. They want the benefits of the iOS ecosystem (access to users) but they don't want to pay for it. Apple should just pull the plug on Amazon and Google the other parasitic squatter company.

Not wanting to pay 30% doesn't mean that they wouldn't be willing to pay something. I'll always take a small percentage of something than 30% of nothing.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #60 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Apple has stated that the App Store is running at break even.

I don't believe that's true anymore.
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"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
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post #61 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

I don't believe that's true anymore.

 

Who needs facts, when you can just believe whatever helps you win?

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #62 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkVader View Post


Actually, most people do care a bit, they're not happy with Apple for taking 30%.

And they shouldn't be, it's highway robbery.  Apple does literally nothing, and takes 30%.  I know many of you are complete Apple fanbois, but try to get some objective concept of what's going on here.  First Apple releases a closed platform that we have to hack to be able to run so we can run software on our own devices without Apple's approval.  Then Apple comes out with this app store where they demand a 30% profit for doing nothing but hosting the app - and unless you have jailbroken, there's no other way to get the app.  That's bad enough, but then Apple insists on taking a 30% cut of anything bought inside the app - even though there is no need for that to go through Apple at all. 

It's extortion.  "We've got all these customers locked up, they're ours, we own them.  You can't sell to them unless you pay us."

I'm not a big fan of Amazon, but at least they're refusing to pay Apple's extortion.  Every developer should.
You do know that the Google Play store also charges a 30% commission? Is that extortion too?
post #63 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Apple didn't tell Amazon to remove IAP from the Kindle app.
Amazon didn't want to pay Apple to host content on Apple's servers.
It's always the app developer's choice. But Amazon is pleased that you blame Apple for Amazon's choice.

Apple doesn't host Amazon's content except for the app. Any content will be on Amazon's servers and delivered by them.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
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post #64 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Who needs facts, when you can just believe whatever helps you win?
According to Apple's last quarterly filing their software and services revenue increased 11% YOY. Did the expenses associated with that really go up 11% or more in the same time period? I would imagine with the introduction of the Mac AppStore this isn't break-even anymore.

http://images.apple.com/pr/pdf/q2fy14datasum.pdf
post #65 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

No it's not that simple. All that Apple is housing is the app, not the content. Amazon is housing the content, and making delivery. I'm not saying Apple shouldn't get anything, but 30% is way too much.
Google Play is 30% too. I don't know how that figure was arrived at, but I'm assuming there's a reason it's 30 and not 15 or 10. If it's because Aplle is being greedy, then I guess Google is too.
post #66 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Who needs facts, when you can just believe whatever helps you win?

$1 billion in revenue doesn't sound like 'break even'.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2014/01/07/apples-app-store-could-have-generated-1-billion-in-revenue-in-the-december-quarter/
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post #67 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Google Play is 30% too. I don't know how that figure was arrived at, but I'm assuming there's a reason it's 30 and not 15 or 10. If it's because Aplle is being greedy, then I guess Google is too.

One can't do IAPs from Amazon on Android neither. I'm all for a 30% if Apple or Google handle the storage, delivery, and transaction, but if all they're doing is handing the transaction and Amazon handles the storage, and delivery then 30% is indeed greedy and impossible for Amazon to make any money.
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"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
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post #68 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


$1 billion in revenue doesn't sound like 'break even'.

 

 

Since you don't have the cost figures for running the app store you can't possibly know.

 

In 2011, Horace Dediu (the only analyst worth listening to) estimated that the online store costs $1.3billion per year to run

 

I don't think it's going to get much cheaper, so yes, $1billion sounds a lot like 'break even'.

 

http://www.asymco.com/2011/06/13/itunes-now-costs-1-3-billionyr-to-run/

post #69 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayz View Post

Since you don't have the cost figures for running the app store you can't possibly know.

In 2011, Horace Dediu (the only analyst worth listening to) estimated that the online store costs $1.3billion per year to run

I don't think it's going to get much cheaper, so yes, $1billion sounds a lot like 'break even'.

http://www.asymco.com/2011/06/13/itunes-now-costs-1-3-billionyr-to-run/

Except that $1 billion was made in a quarter not in a year. So 4 quarters in a year would mean $4 billion in revenue versus $1.3 billion in costs for a profit of $2.7 billion. Really easy math.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
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post #70 of 128
You Amazon lovers should go check out the percentages Amazon was taking before Apple came along. Then tell me who's being greedy.
post #71 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Well, you don’t get it.

Yes I do, you just have a single minded view point of everything
post #72 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

What a stupid comment.

The Walmart analogy I've used in the past is far more appropriate. Let's say I have a vending machine and I want to install it in a high traffic location to increase sales. I choose Walmart because they are always extremely busy. Do you think Walmart should let me place my machine in their store without getting a cut? I'm taking up a certain amount of square footage in their store, collecting money from customers who came to see Walmart (not my vending machine) and making a profit using the "assets" of a well established store.

IMO, Apple is too lenient. Apple has to host the App for Amazon, pay for all the server costs and bandwidth (including repeat downloads every time there's a patch or update), give Amazon access to their 800 million account holders (which is bigger than Amazons own customer base) and let users of the App buy stuff where Apple gets no money.

Ok, by calling someone else's comment stupid to start with shows how much you are willing to input into a real discussion.

Apple allows free apps into their store, they allow developers to submit apps which redirect to a website for external purchasing for free. The difficulty with comparing to WalMart is WalMart won't allow this. And since Apple allows this what is the issue? Amazon is working within the rules Apple set for them, if Apple doesn't want companies to do this they would stop it.
post #73 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danox View Post

Amazon wants access to iOS ecosystem for free, if Amazon wants to compete with Apple should make sure they stand on their own two feet in every way financially. Apple has been far too nice to Amazon and Google within the Appstore.

You seem to be slow to grasp this but Apple sets some rules for apps in their app store, and guess what? They allow what amazon are doing, so what is your issue?
post #74 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

One can't do IAPs from Amazon on Android neither. I'm all for a 30% if Apple or Google handle the storage, delivery, and transaction, but if all they're doing is handing the transaction and Amazon handles the storage, and delivery then 30% is indeed greedy and impossible for Amazon to make any money.

It's no different from any other IAP though. When you buy some virtual coins in a game, Apple only has to process the payment, the game is just running some different code that's already in the game. If they said 0% for virtual coins but 30% for an extra map in a map program that they host, that's not really fair on developers. 30% is close to the rate for taxation - it's more likely just a flat rate worked out by weighing up costs against volume of users.

I think it makes sense to make exceptions for apps that are conduits to content like books and movies above a certain volume but the providers won't want to pay anything. In those cases, they can offer a reseller rate like they do when they sell Macs to 3rd party retail stores. That would be closer to 10-15% fee but that's still a large amount for 3rd party content.

The rule can be that if the app developer provides hosting and the content selection is above 1000 options from 3rd party publishers, the fee drops to this 10-15%. Maybe some publishers will go for that but Amazon especially tries to keep as much for itself as possible. Amazon's own fees aren't all that different:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=3149301

They vary them by category but if you sell jewellery, they want a 40% 'referral fee'. They aren't doing anything except processing the payment; you store the product, ship the product etc. However, for you to profit, Amazon needed to build up their whole infrastructure so it's like a tax on using that infrastructure and they'll be aware that some items have higher margins than others so they vary it by category.

Margins vary by content too - self-published IAPs are 100% margin so 30% makes sense. Reseller IAPs for 3rd party content will come with 30% margins for the reseller at best so it makes more sense to split the profit but like I say, Amazon would probably still push people to the web to protect 10-15% margins as that's a lot of money.

There's no harm in trying it out though. No other IAPs would qualify for the lower rate so they can have the exception for 3rd party movie and book stores and they aren't making money here anyway as they'll be pushing people to buy through the browser.

Until we know what the build and running costs are for Apple's 4 data centers, it's not clear if 30% is too high and I expect they didn't aim to run at break even forever. It's better to run at profit so they can reinvest the profit in more data centers or upgrades as the userbase grows.
post #75 of 128
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post
Yes I do, you just have a single minded view point of everything


No, you just don’t comprehend the situation. At all.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #76 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danox View Post

 

Then Amazon would be happy if Apple kicked them out of the Appstore for being the parasite that they are. They want the benefits of the iOS ecosystem (access to users) but they don't want to pay for it. Apple should just pull the plug on Amazon and Google the other parasitic squatter company.

 



Why should Apple kick out Amazon when they're following the rules that Apple set? Amazon is complying with those rules, just in a different way. If Amazon has their own payment/user management system, then it makes sense for them not to pay Apple. I don't like how Amazon got a free pass from the DOJ in the Apple eBooks trial, but I don't see how it would be fair for Apple to change the rules on them in the middle of the game since they are complying with those rules.
post #77 of 128

I see this as a simple matter of competition and the struggle for market share. Since I don't buy content from Amazon I couldn't care less how it pans out. Its just interesting. But even if many of the iTunes faithful end up not buying from Amazon it could still make sense to Amazon because they have smaller margins than in their direct store. So I suspect that that may be one of the motivating arguments for the change .. together with the fact that Apple will lose revenue.

 

I can't really sympathize with the whiners who are pissed about this. Apple is simply greedy with their 30% cut. Its hard to see that any added value of in-app purchasing can come close to justifying the 30%, as others have commented. And I am not one who wants to pump my hard-earned cash to Apple without a solid value-for-money element, which just doesn't exist in this particular context for the users.

 

YMMV.

post #78 of 128
The App Store reviews don't tell a great story since the update. A lot of annoyed people.
post #79 of 128
It will be very interesting to see if the drop in Comixology sales is more than the 30% they're trying to save.

This is very similar to the manufacturer of a consumer product that used to be available at major retailers deciding to go with direct sales only. They always forget to factor in that the convenience of being in the major retailer was a larger factor in their success than the product itself.
post #80 of 128

Apple needs to start selling comics through iBooks. Would solve all of this crap.

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