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Touch panel makers face falling revenue thanks to faltering touchscreen PC sales

post #1 of 52
Thread Starter 
Despite rising overall sales, manufacturers of touchscreen components are set to feel the squeeze in their bottom line as more players enter the market and shipments shift toward lower-margin parts for tablets and smartphones.




"Increased competition among the growing number of touch-panel makers is causing overall ASP and revenue declines, even as shipment volumes continue their upward trajectory," NPD DisplaySearch research director Calvin Hsieh said. The revelation came as part of NPD's most recent quarterly analysis of the touch panel industry.

According to the report, industry revenues are expected to decline by 1 percent in 2014 despite a 15 percent increase in shipments. That juxtaposition, Hsieh believes, will spark a wave of consolidation in the industry.

"Some touch module makers will not survive the coming shakeout, but others are already preparing for new opportunities, including increasing production of new indium tin oxide (ITO) replacement materials," he said.
Just 15% of laptops are expected to ship with touchscreens in 2014, NPD says
Much of the problem is though to center around a surplus of materials originally destined for touchscreen PC production. Demand for those products -- which former Apple CEO Steve Jobs famously called "ergonomically terrible" -- has been weaker than expected.

"We've done tons of user testing on this, and it turns out it doesn't work," Jobs said of touchscreen-equipped laptops at an event in 2010. "Touch surfaces don't want to be vertical."

Software giant Microsoft has been a major proponent of such devices in recent years, with its flagship Windows 8 operating system controversially designed to cater to that market. The strategy has largely failed, however, as consumers instead opt for more traditional components and Windows 8 adoption remains low.

"Unless applications for 10-inch-and-larger screens can grow faster to create a new and growing market, it is inevitable that touch module makers will continue to compete fiercely, which will lower ASPs and revenues in the smartphone and tablet PC markets," Hsieh added. "Windows 8 has not convinced end users to pay the premium for touch screen use."
post #2 of 52

Gee, no one wants to touch their laptops. How strange…

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #3 of 52
When I am on the PC, I want to sit back and use a mouse. Not lean forward and finger print the hell out of my screen.
post #4 of 52

Hm...touchscreen PC sales are down. Why am I not surprised? 

 

Where are those who think Apple should have made a touchscreen iMac???

Mac Mini (Mid 2011) 2.5 GHz Core i5

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Mac Mini (Mid 2011) 2.5 GHz Core i5

120 GB SSD/500 GB HD/8 GB RAM

AMD Radeon HD 6630M 256 MB

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post #5 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seankill View Post

When I am on the PC, I want to sit back and use a mouse. Not lean forward and finger print the hell out of my screen.

 

This is what everyone ends up doing. I'd like someone here to honestly say they use a touchscreen on a daily basis and end up using the touch controls all day long. Nobody will reach across the screen all day long. Thats just plain silly and there's no real benefit to using your finger, vs pointing and clicking on something. 

Mac Mini (Mid 2011) 2.5 GHz Core i5

120 GB SSD/500 GB HD/8 GB RAM

AMD Radeon HD 6630M 256 MB

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Mac Mini (Mid 2011) 2.5 GHz Core i5

120 GB SSD/500 GB HD/8 GB RAM

AMD Radeon HD 6630M 256 MB

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post #6 of 52
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

Where are those who think Apple should have made a touchscreen iMac???

 

Still here. I just know better than to want a vertical touchscreen iMac. 

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #7 of 52
It's the 'Gorilla Arm Syndrome'.
post #8 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

Hm...touchscreen PC sales are down. Why am I not surprised? 

Where are those who think Apple should have made a touchscreen iMac???

I still think Apple should make a touch screen iMac. With the two patents they have for sliding stands for an iMac, or equivalent, it would work just fine. I'd love a monitor that could slide from vertical to just slightly slanted. That would be the best of two worlds. And if it were able to enable high quality pressure sensitivity as well, it would be perfect for Photoshop, and other drawing applications, such as Illustrator, and my CAD software.

The truth is that I'm so used to my iPad, that sometimes when I'm standing next to someone, and have to show them something, I teach out to the screen before I realize that it's not touch. The option would be great, as long as it's not the only thing available.

I'd be willing to pay an extra $500, or so, for that.
post #9 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

This is what everyone ends up doing. I'd like someone here to honestly say they use a touchscreen on a daily basis and end up using the touch controls all day long. Nobody will reach across the screen all day long. Thats just plain silly and there's no real benefit to using your finger, vs pointing and clicking on something. 

Yes, for a vertical screen. But that really narrow thinking. It doesn't have to remain vertical. There are many times when touch is vastly better than a mouse and keyboard. But then, you really need to use some serious software that enables this for a while to appreciate it, so I understand why some don't get it.
post #10 of 52

Surprise surprise! (Gomer Pyle voice)

post #11 of 52

 ALL laptops screens will be touch enabled at some point. Those who do not think so will be proven as wrong as when they quote Steve Jobs about tablet size and phone size. Younger generations have come to expect it. I have come to expect it.

post #12 of 52
I saw a Microsoft Surface Pro in the wild the other day. It was being used as a cramped laptop,
Propped up by its flashy kickstand.

Exactly what I thought.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #13 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingela View Post

 ALL laptops screens will be touch enabled at some point. Those who do not think so will be proven as wrong as when they quote Steve Jobs about tablet size and phone size. Younger generations have come to expect it. I have come to expect it.

This would explain why the Surface is outselling... Nothing.

Unless the OS is built for touch, touch won't occur on a laptop.
post #14 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingela View Post
 

 ALL laptops screens will be touch enabled at some point. Those who do not think so will be proven as wrong as when they quote Steve Jobs about tablet size and phone size. Younger generations have come to expect it. I have come to expect it.

 

lol. No.

post #15 of 52

Just because these companies sold some of these touch screens PC they think there is a markets. just there are few people who bough them for reason that, they were a geek, it appeal to their geek factor, they were talked into it because they did not have a mind of their own, or they bought it without knowing what they bought. So the entire industries jumps on it since the think their is a market for the product. Only to find out when the rest of the population actually saw, played with, or heard the complaints and decided to for go the purchase. Thus the reason you have surplus of touch screen no one wants.

 

The problem there are so many component companies who are interested in making a sale and never questions the wisdom of the product they are making and whether they should make the investments. Ask Hitachi what happen to there $100M's of investment they made into 1.8" HDD for portable MP3 markets thinking that it was going to boom only to have Apple switch most everything to Flash.

post #16 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post


Yes, for a vertical screen. But that really narrow thinking. It doesn't have to remain vertical. There are many times when touch is vastly better than a mouse and keyboard. But then, you really need to use some serious software that enables this for a while to appreciate it, so I understand why some don't get it.

 

I can not think of too many situations where I would agree with you. Now, everyone has there preferences but when I get in front of my computer, I like the mouse. It is easier and more accurate than a finger (IMO) given that a pointer is much smaller than my finger. 

 

I do a lot of 3D drawings and can't imagine reaching to the screen every second. I can see some use for simple games. Maybe a tiny bit of use of touching the save button rather than clicking it with the mouse but if I were that worried about time, I would just learn the keyboard short cut to save. 

 

While everyone will have their opinion and preference, my understanding is that currently, the touch screen a gimick and will stay that way for quite some time. 

 

Children like the touchscreen because it allows a more interactive game. I just don't see use for it in a productive setting. Having to lean up to a screen to control the computer, particularly with multiple monitors, it would be like having to workout while using the computer but maybe America needs that.

post #17 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

This is what everyone ends up doing. I'd like someone here to honestly say they use a touchscreen on a daily basis and end up using the touch controls all day long.
I do this to an extent at work where the production lines make use of lots of touch screens. It is not a comfortable experience at all especially in older versions of Windows. It is so bad in fact that people will hang or Velcro keyboards next to the touch screens and like wise hang a mouse somewhere. This for simple text or data entry.

Given that some still claim that they like touch screens. Personally I seem them as an anti improvement to the user experience with the current desktop operating systems an touch screens. They are so bad in fact that I see it as a very difficult thing for Apple to deliver. I can see Apple holding out for a workable 3D gesture based system. From my perspective anything that requires direct user contact with the screen is a niche solution.
Quote:
Nobody will reach across the screen all day long. Thats just plain silly and there's no real benefit to using your finger, vs pointing and clicking on something. 

Actually there are lots of disadvantages. Of course there are always the niche uses that can benefit but I don't see Apple going after this market and they certainly wouldn't do so with the current Mac UI. They problem here is if a feature only works well for a few users those that can't leverage a feature willed up unhappy with their purchase seeing the feature as broken. Frankly if you look at the Microsoft world this is the problem many see with Windows and touch - it is seen as broken or useless by most users.
post #18 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post


The truth is that I'm so used to my iPad, that sometimes when I'm standing next to someone, and have to show them something, I teach out to the screen before I realize that it's not touch. The option would be great, as long as it's not the only thing available.

I'd be willing to pay an extra $500, or so, for that.
I've had the same instinct with my MacBook, but yet I don't think I would use it as a primary input device. I've played with the touch screen laptops a little, and for the most part it is awkward. Every once in a while the benefits make it worth taking your hands off the keyboard however, for most things (I do) the benefit isn't worth the "hit". Not to say it wouldn't work well in some applications.
post #19 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post
 

Hm...touchscreen PC sales are down. Why am I not surprised? 

 

Where are those who think Apple should have made a touchscreen iMac???


Also known as the "toaster+frig" combo here ;)

post #20 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Still here. I just know better than to want a vertical touchscreen iMac. 

The problem here is what good would such a Mac be to the majority of users? It is a given that niche users can leverage a screen laid out horizontally, in fact for some industries it could very well be a huge improvement. However if you look at the overall Mac landscape most users would find that the feature is worthless.

Now if Apple wanted to make a modern draftsman type table / computer for a niche market I'd say go for it. Just don't expect it to replace normal Mac usage nor see a huge number of users jumping on board. Honestly though I don't think the technology is there yet as you would need a retina quality screen 36" wide and ideally even bigger. It is an interesting concept but might also be seen as a regression as many engineers, designers and such saw the move away from the draftsman table as a huge step forward. Creatives might like the machine though.
post #21 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seankill View Post

When I am on the PC, I want to sit back and use a mouse. Not lean forward and finger print the hell out of my screen.


Very good point!  With bigger screen, your eyes want to be further from the screen to be comfortable. 

post #22 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seankill View Post

I can not think of too many situations where I would agree with you. Now, everyone has there preferences but when I get in front of my computer, I like the mouse. It is easier and more accurate than a finger (IMO) given that a pointer is much smaller than my finger. 

I do a lot of 3D drawings and can't imagine reaching to the screen every second. I can see some use for simple games. Maybe a tiny bit of use of touching the save button rather than clicking it with the mouse but if I were that worried about time, I would just learn the keyboard short cut to save. 

While everyone will have their opinion and preference, my understanding is that currently, the touch screen a gimick and will stay that way for quite some time. 

Children like the touchscreen because it allows a more interactive game. I just don't see use for it in a productive setting. Having to lean up to a screen to control the computer, particularly with multiple monitors, it would be like having to workout while using the computer but maybe America needs that.

Your understanding is incorrect. It's true that there will always be people who can't get newer things. After all, when the mouse and pull down me he's first came out, and everyone was using two and three key commands to do everything, it was said that a mouse and drop down me yes were fine for newbees, but for serious work, it wasn't any good because you had to remove your hand from the keyboard.

So we're seeing the same thing here now. You seem to be a perfect example of someone who can't change their habits. Good for children, you say, and there's is truth in that. But by you relegating it to children, you are unsuccessfully attempting to denigrate it. Obviously, you haven't use touch very much.
post #23 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

I do this to an extent at work where the production lines make use of lots of touch screens. It is not a comfortable experience at all especially in older versions of Windows. It is so bad in fact that people will hang or Velcro keyboards next to the touch screens and like wise hang a mouse somewhere. This for simple text or data entry.

Given that some still claim that they like touch screens. Personally I seem them as an anti improvement to the user experience with the current desktop operating systems an touch screens. They are so bad in fact that I see it as a very difficult thing for Apple to deliver. I can see Apple holding out for a workable 3D gesture based system. From my perspective anything that requires direct user contact with the screen is a niche solution.
Actually there are lots of disadvantages. Of course there are always the niche uses that can benefit but I don't see Apple going after this market and they certainly wouldn't do so with the current Mac UI. They problem here is if a feature only works well for a few users those that can't leverage a feature willed up unhappy with their purchase seeing the feature as broken. Frankly if you look at the Microsoft world this is the problem many see with Windows and touch - it is seen as broken or useless by most users.

One of the problems here is I thinking that everything will remain the same except for the addition of touch. I don't believe that will be true. I would like the option, not the requirement. I now do a lot of work on my iPad that I ordinarily would do on my Mac Pro. That includes video and photo editing, CAD, etc. a bigger screen would make that all better.

I don't see it as being out of the realm of possibility that apps on the Mac could have two UIs. You could make a choice, touch or keyboard. So if you slid the screen down to the almost horizontal position, you would choose the touch UI, and visa versa. I can see advantages in both.

Being dogmatic either way isn't helpful. There's room for both.
post #24 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingela View Post
 

 ALL laptops screens will be touch enabled at some point. Those who do not think so will be proven as wrong as when they quote Steve Jobs about tablet size and phone size. Younger generations have come to expect it. I have come to expect it.

 

"Younger" generations have come to expect crap and there are many out there more than willing to provide.  However, in time ALL crap will come to pass.

post #25 of 52
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post
The problem here is what good would such a Mac be to the majority of users?

 

Not much right now. Not with OS X, at least. It’ll be the majority share device, however, when the software lends itself to touch.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #26 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I still think Apple should make a touch screen iMac. With the two patents they have for sliding stands for an iMac, or equivalent, it would work just fine. I'd love a monitor that could slide from vertical to just slightly slanted. That would be the best of two worlds. And if it were able to enable high quality pressure sensitivity as well, it would be perfect for Photoshop, and other drawing applications, such as Illustrator, and my CAD software.
Actually CAD would make for a very interesting long term discussion here because for at least a couple of hundred years engineering design was very touch driven. The industry had a significant amount of hardware designed around the production of engineering drawings. Everything from fancy desks, drafting machines to pencil sharpeners custom built for the industry.

Within a couple of decades that stuff has disappeared, for the most part, from the market after the arrival of usable CAD systems. Honestly I don't see a huge demand from people to go backwards here. To really be useful a new generation of CAD or design software would be needed. Software that allows development of entire objects or structures via gestures. I honestly have not seen software in the CAD world that even comes close to really benefiting from touch.
Quote:
The truth is that I'm so used to my iPad, that sometimes when I'm standing next to someone, and have to show them something, I teach out to the screen before I realize that it's not touch. The option would be great, as long as it's not the only thing available.
I would imagine that every iPad users has done something similar, I know I have. However a reflex behavior isn't validation of extend usability. This is where I see Apple having a problem with the current GUI approach to a computer interface, it is easy to find a specific instance of usability it is far harder to find the general solution that everybody would use on the desktop.
Quote:
I'd be willing to pay an extra $500, or so, for that.

I could see Apple developing APIs further to allow third parties to better integrate touch screens but I don't see Apple launching such screens themselves. At least not with the current software and hardware solutions they ship.
post #27 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post


Your understanding is incorrect. It's true that there will always be people who can't get newer things. After all, when the mouse and pull down me he's first came out, and everyone was using two and three key commands to do everything, it was said that a mouse and drop down me yes were fine for newbees, but for serious work, it wasn't any good because you had to remove your hand from the keyboard.

So we're seeing the same thing here now. You seem to be a perfect example of someone who can't change their habits. Good for children, you say, and there's is truth in that. But by you relegating it to children, you are unsuccessfully attempting to denigrate it. Obviously, you haven't use touch very much.

 

 

 

I use touchscreens all the time, on my iPhone, on my tablet, and I spend about an hour at bestbuy 2-3 times a month messing around with the floor PCs, etc.. I enjoy technology and am quite open to new ideas and user interfaces, assuming there are advantages to the system. I for one, am not a fan of Windows 8, or using touch on a computer. My experience with touch screen on a PC, granted not the most experience here, is that the touch is just a "hey dude, look what my screen does" feature, AKA a gimmick. The beautiful of being a human is that we all have our preferences and opinions which means we can never be wrong with our opinions. My opinion is that it is a worthless feature and I know for a fact that trying to draw 3D models on a touchscreen is near impossible, if not very time consuming. I have many friends with touchscreen computers and when they get down to working, its a mouse and keyboard. 

 

Touchscreens on a PC without radical rethinking is totally worthless, IMO.

post #28 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Yes, for a vertical screen. But that really narrow thinking. It doesn't have to remain vertical. There are many times when touch is vastly better than a mouse and keyboard. But then, you really need to use some serious software that enables this for a while to appreciate it, so I understand why some don't get it.

It isn't that we don't get it, it is that we don't see Apple going after niche solutions. People in the design community are at times oblivious to the fact that they are a small segment of Apples entire marketplace. For Apple to deliver touch on a desktop or laptop they would need to find a way to make the feature useful to a large portion of the user population. Right now most users don't need the feature.

We can argue all day about what percentage "most" is but to be worthwhile a feature like touch would need adoption by at least 50% of the users space. That would be adoption after the novelty wore off. I just don't see it happening with the current GUI nor do I see a good way to morph the current GUI into something user would want or even demand.
post #29 of 52

What if the touch screen is an iPad with a keyboard?  

 

Laptops don't have enough tension in the screen.  When you touch a laptop's screen, it pushes backwards.  That's not an elegant solution.

post #30 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingela View Post

 ALL laptops screens will be touch enabled at some point. Those who do not think so will be proven as wrong as when they quote Steve Jobs about tablet size and phone size.
Anybody with any sense would realize that Apple was in marketing mode when commenting on tablets and iPhones. On the flip side there are real issues with touch screens working in conjunction with current desktop operating systems.
Quote:
Younger generations have come to expect it. I have come to expect it.

A baloney salesman at work! I've heard zip from young, old or even middle aged about expecting touch screens in a laptop. This especially the case in a laptop with a decent keyboard and track pad. There would have to be a compelling reason for people to expect that feature. The compelling reason does not exist with current GUIs.
post #31 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

Hm...touchscreen PC sales are down. Why am I not surprised? 

Where are those who think Apple should have made a touchscreen iMac???

Not a touchscreen iMac, but a 27inch iPad would be fine.
post #32 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

One of the problems here is I thinking that everything will remain the same except for the addition of touch. I don't believe that will be true. I would like the option, not the requirement. I now do a lot of work on my iPad that I ordinarily would do on my Mac Pro. That includes video and photo editing, CAD, etc. a bigger screen would make that all better.
That is the whole point if the discussion, iPad is an entirely different device than a desktop system. Apple would be far better off simply producing a much bigger iPad for these markets.
Quote:
I don't see it as being out of the realm of possibility that apps on the Mac could have two UIs. You could make a choice, touch or keyboard. So if you slid the screen down to the almost horizontal position, you would choose the touch UI, and visa versa. I can see advantages in both.
It is certainly possible to extend the Mac operating system to support touch, no body here appears to be arguing that it can't be done. The problem is the limited benefit for most users, especially laptop and desktop users that leverage conventional screen placements.
Quote:
Being dogmatic either way isn't helpful. There's room for both.

Apple currently sells both. If you want touch gab an iPad, if you are working with more conventional apps grab a Mac.

I fully understand where it might be useful to have touch support in a Mac for some users. But some is an extremely small number of users when looking at the current Mac market. That may change when and if Apple extends the GUI to better support touch but that won't happen anytime soon. Further I don't see a rush from system users to adopt the new hardware simply for touch support.

Imagine this for a minute, Apple comes out with a new display for the Mac Pro supporting touch. There is much joy to be had with celebrations all around. People from diverse backgrounds jump on the band wagon to have the latest fancy from Apple. We get glowing reviews from people fascinated with the idea that they can touch the screen. More screens are sold to people responding to all of that BS about being able to touch the screen. Now imagine the state of the community six months to a year later when most of those people realize that touch for them was nothing more than a gimmick and that the use of touch was less helpful than imagined. If your imagination sucks at the moment then look at the Windows world instead, touch in a desktop or laptop is not a net positive improvement with current software and hardware technologies.

I can't get away from the idea that such a feature is a very niche add on for most desktop or laptop users. This especially in the context of current operating system technologies. Now given that a niche here might be sizable, let's say larger than the XServe market, it might be possible for Apple to market a product to support that niche. Such a monitor must support a broad array of orientations which is why I mentioned a drafting table in another post, because let's face it the vertical monitor approach sucks for touch. This would give Apple something to market towards these niche users that would not be a massive ergonomic fail. The hard part here would be finding a screen of high enough resolution that it doesn't look like a bunch of colored golf balls up close.
post #33 of 52

Apple: "We've studied it carefully, concluded that it's a bad idea, and we're not going to do it."

 

Somebody, somewhere: "I still want it!"

post #34 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

The problem here is what good would such a Mac be to the majority of users? It is a given that niche users can leverage a screen laid out horizontally, in fact for some industries it could very well be a huge improvement. However if you look at the overall Mac landscape most users would find that the feature is worthless.

Now if Apple wanted to make a modern draftsman type table / computer for a niche market I'd say go for it. Just don't expect it to replace normal Mac usage nor see a huge number of users jumping on board. Honestly though I don't think the technology is there yet as you would need a retina quality screen 36" wide and ideally even bigger. It is an interesting concept but might also be seen as a regression as many engineers, designers and such saw the move away from the draftsman table as a huge step forward. Creatives might like the machine though.

I heard similar complaints when the mouse was introduced, who would use such a unwieldy unprecise device while you can use the infinite precision and speed of arrow keys.
Clearly no one will use a mouse.
Even the keyboard was complaint at when introduced, where is the fun of programming when you can't solder all connections and hard wire the input?

Tablets will restore the previous setting of all people working in an office. All desks had a slight tilt and people could stand or sit behind it, and read and write on paper (or a tablet) in a normal direct way instead of looking at an unnatural projection in the distance and working in a detached way devoid of ergonomics.

PC's and notebooks are dinosaurs, the tablet is the natural successor because it's the most minimalistic computer we can currently make.
post #35 of 52

Touch screen on a windows8 computer has got to be an improvement.  It certainly can't make it any worse.

post #36 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

Hm...touchscreen PC sales are down. Why am I not surprised? 

Where are those who think Apple should have made a touchscreen iMac???

I still think Apple should make a touch screen iMac. With the two patents they have for sliding stands for an iMac, or equivalent, it would work just fine. I'd love a monitor that could slide from vertical to just slightly slanted. That would be the best of two worlds. And if it were able to enable high quality pressure sensitivity as well, it would be perfect for Photoshop, and other drawing applications, such as Illustrator, and my CAD software.

The truth is that I'm so used to my iPad, that sometimes when I'm standing next to someone, and have to show them something, I teach out to the screen before I realize that it's not touch. The option would be great, as long as it's not the only thing available.

I'd be willing to pay an extra $500, or so, for that.

I second this! A touch screen 27 (or larger) iMac and/or Display -- with Wacom quality stylus input in addition to finger touch.

Almost any CAD or Drawing app would be great. For example drawing Bezier shapes (Motion, Photoshop, Silhouette, etc.) with a stylus on an adjustable, semi-horizontal touch drafting table.

Nirvana!
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"He who laughs, lasts!" - Mary Pettibone Poole -
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post #37 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


Anybody with any sense would realize that Apple was in marketing mode when commenting on tablets and iPhones. On the flip side there are real issues with touch screens working in conjunction with current desktop operating systems.
A baloney salesman at work! I've heard zip from young, old or even middle aged about expecting touch screens in a laptop. This especially the case in a laptop with a decent keyboard and track pad. There would have to be a compelling reason for people to expect that feature. The compelling reason does not exist with current GUIs.

 

So tablet and phone size talking points were just Apple salesman talking points and this isn't? lol

Compelling reason? Ease of use.

Anyway, we'll see, on the day that Steve said what he said about tablet size I posted right here that he would eat crow on that one. And you will eat crow on this also.

post #38 of 52
Originally Posted by Ingela View Post

on the day that Steve said what he said about tablet size I posted right here that he would eat crow on that one.

 

No, but you’re still eating crow for not comprehending what he said four years later.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #39 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Actually CAD would make for a very interesting long term discussion here because for at least a couple of hundred years engineering design was very touch driven. The industry had a significant amount of hardware designed around the production of engineering drawings. Everything from fancy desks, drafting machines to pencil sharpeners custom built for the industry.

Within a couple of decades that stuff has disappeared, for the most part, from the market after the arrival of usable CAD systems. Honestly I don't see a huge demand from people to go backwards here. To really be useful a new generation of CAD or design software would be needed. Software that allows development of entire objects or structures via gestures. I honestly have not seen software in the CAD world that even comes close to really benefiting from touch.
I would imagine that every iPad users has done something similar, I know I have. However a reflex behavior isn't validation of extend usability. This is where I see Apple having a problem with the current GUI approach to a computer interface, it is easy to find a specific instance of usability it is far harder to find the general solution that everybody would use on the desktop.
I could see Apple developing APIs further to allow third parties to better integrate touch screens but I don't see Apple launching such screens themselves. At least not with the current software and hardware solutions they ship.

AutoCad 360 on my iPad is a fairly featured app. It does a lot of what I need to do. At first, it felt very odd, and I wasn't sure if it would work out. But after working with it for a bit over a week, I got used to the conventions, and now, I find it to be great. Would I substitute it for Archicad, which I use with my Mac Pro, or any of the other CAd software I use there? No. It's not ready for that. But they have improved it substantially since the first release, particularly after the iPad Air came out. With a much larger screen, it would be even easier to use.

I don't see any reason why this couldn't be done. And if people are thinking I'm saying that this should shove aside mouse and keyboard, I've already stated that I'm not. But there are a lot of functions that are so much easier with touch, such as rotation, that going back to a mouse, or keyboard for that function, is several steps backwards. This is an evolution, like everything else. I believe it will happen, and that we will see both touch and keyboard and mouse in use together at some point.

As far as Apple coming out with their own touch screens, well, who knows what Apple will do. I would bet they've got them in their labs and are experimenting with them.
post #40 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seankill View Post



I use touchscreens all the time, on my iPhone, on my tablet, and I spend about an hour at bestbuy 2-3 times a month messing around with the floor PCs, etc.. I enjoy technology and am quite open to new ideas and user interfaces, assuming there are advantages to the system. I for one, am not a fan of Windows 8, or using touch on a computer. My experience with touch screen on a PC, granted not the most experience here, is that the touch is just a "hey dude, look what my screen does" feature, AKA a gimmick. The beautiful of being a human is that we all have our preferences and opinions which means we can never be wrong with our opinions. My opinion is that it is a worthless feature and I know for a fact that trying to draw 3D models on a touchscreen is near impossible, if not very time consuming. I have many friends with touchscreen computers and when they get down to working, its a mouse and keyboard. 

Touchscreens on a PC without radical rethinking is totally worthless, IMO.

You are wrong about drawing those models, because I do it with AutoCad 360 on my iPad.

I'm not saying that everything should be the same, except for the addition of touch. I've already said that things need to change. But, change they will. Apple is obviously moving towards this with OS X moving closer to the way iOS works in many areas. How much further will it move? We don't know, but we can make an educated guess that it will continue to do so, while iOS gets more OS X features.

At some point then, Apple may introduce a model which allows touch as well as keyboard and mouse. You may think it's worthless, but that's very narrow minded. At least think about the possibilities.
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