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post #41 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

It isn't that we don't get it, it is that we don't see Apple going after niche solutions. People in the design community are at times oblivious to the fact that they are a small segment of Apples entire marketplace. For Apple to deliver touch on a desktop or laptop they would need to find a way to make the feature useful to a large portion of the user population. Right now most users don't need the feature.

We can argue all day about what percentage "most" is but to be worthwhile a feature like touch would need adoption by at least 50% of the users space. That would be adoption after the novelty wore off. I just don't see it happening with the current GUI nor do I see a good way to morph the current GUI into something user would want or even demand.

I'm reading a lot of things in this thread.

Niche use

Most people

50%

Good for children only, etc.

It all sounds very familiar, and goes back to the early 1980's, when they were saying the same things.

Oh, yes, of course, this is different, a mouse and keyboard really are useful. Yeah, yeah. Nothing new here.

Apple is making changes. How long it will take is something else.
post #42 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

Still here. I just know better than to want a vertical touchscreen iMac. 

Has anyone ever truly advocated that? If they wanted to make a touchscreen imac, it would require the ability to set the machine at an incline. Off angle reflectivity would also have to be tolerable. It makes little sense to interpret such a thing as being shoehorned into the current design. It is more difficult to implement when you're not starting from scratch. Note their biggest successes have been in areas where they didn't have to worry about cannibalizing existing business or the transitions of their own users (first macs, iphones, iPad).

post #43 of 52
OK. A couple of points.
1. Mac OS X is already touch enabled, and Apple actually ship touch input devices with most of their computers. The Magic Trackpad.

Oh, but it's not the same? Why not? The significant difference between using the trackpad and touching the screen directly is that you can better see what you're tapping on without your own fat fingers* in the way. And you can have the screen at the optimal position for reading (so your head is upright and your neck straight) while your arms are in a much better position for working. (Also, wiping a piece of crud off the screen doesn't then register as input.)

2. The touch screen interface on Phones and Tablets isn't there because it's inherently better, it's there because it makes better use of restricted space in a portable device. If your device is mostly on your desk, then there isn't really an advantage to a touch screen for most users. And for the people with specific needs and/or programs where it is an advantage, then Wacom make quite a nice display tablet that all the best comics artists use.

* I realise not everyone's fingers are fat. The point is mine are, and it makes it harder for me to select and drag the object I want to manipulate on my iPad or iPhone. With the trackpad, it almost always exactly picks up what the cursor is pointing at, as opposed to the thing next to what my finger is pointing at.
post #44 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

It all sounds very familiar, and goes back to the early 1980's, when they were saying the same things.

Oh, yes, of course, this is different, a mouse and keyboard really are useful. Yeah, yeah. Nothing new here..
I don't think anyone criticised the inclusion of a keyboard on the early Macintosh computers...

The mouse, sure, they criticised that. And they look foolish in hindsight. But the mouse was (for most people) a new way of interacting with the computer, while my point would be that a touch screen and a mouse input are, in the context of the OS, roughly equivalent. Now, touch does have a number of advantages over just a mouse. It really comes down to whether using a trackpad or touching the screen directly is better from an ergonomic point of view. My point, as laid out above, is that the trackpad is more versatile than directly touching the screen.
post #45 of 52

Laptops will no longer exist in the form that we know them a long long time before touch screen laptops ever become popular.  Todays Laptop/Desktop software would need to be completely rewritten (UI wise) to ever make it popular on a touch screen.  A big investment that no one is willing to make until touch Laptops/Desktops with touch screens become popular.  The reflex that many of us have of reaching out to a laptop screen just shows how futile the state of existing software is as it doesn't respond to you.  Touch and gesture interaction with our main software apps will probably happen someday but only imho at the boundary of a new device paradigm that pushes developers to make the investment in the software.

post #46 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Your understanding is incorrect. It's true that there will always be people who can't get newer things. After all, when the mouse and pull down me he's first came out, and everyone was using two and three key commands to do everything, it was said that a mouse and drop down me yes were fine for newbees, but for serious work, it wasn't any good because you had to remove your hand from the keyboard.

Not this guy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingela View Post

 ALL laptops screens will be touch enabled at some point. Those who do not think so will be proven as wrong as when they quote Steve Jobs about tablet size and phone size. Younger generations have come to expect it. I have come to expect it.

Gloat when it actually happens. Until then, you have not been proven correct. I do however think your prediction about younger generations is true, except that they have come to expect touchscreens on iPads (and iPad clones), not laptops.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #47 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

The truth is that I'm so used to my iPad, that sometimes when I'm standing next to someone, and have to show them something, I teach out to the screen before I realize that it's not touch. The option would be great, as long as it's not the only thing available.

I'd be willing to pay an extra $500, or so, for that.

 This is why it is  ergonomically terrible. When you are standing, you can easily lean across and touch the screen without having to raise your arm up, however if you are sitting, you have to reach up and over to get to the higher parts of the screen. Especially if it is raised up a bit. I have a slight shoulder problem and there is no way I could ever work with a touch screen where I'd have to keep moving my hands up and away from the keyboard area.

 

My question is, if you are actually sitting in front of a computer rather than standing, then how often do you reach out to the screen? 

post #48 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

"Windows 8 has not convinced end users to pay the premium for touch screen use."

 

That doesn't necessarily mean users don't want touchscreen computers. It may just mean users don't want computers with Windows 8. Given what a huge difference in user interface Windows 8 imposes, that wouldn't be a crazy conclusion.

Lorin Schultz (formerly V5V)

Audio Engineer

V5V Digital Media, Vancouver, BC Canada

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Lorin Schultz (formerly V5V)

Audio Engineer

V5V Digital Media, Vancouver, BC Canada

Reply
post #49 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post
 
Nobody will reach across the screen all day long.

 

I don't rest my hands on my keyboard all day long. I don' slide a mouse around all day long. I don't twist the jog/shuttle controller all day long. I do some of each. Integrating a few pokes at the screen in there wouldn't be all that daunting.

 

Touch may not be practical as the ONLY source of input to a more traditional computer, but it might be a perfectly nutritious part of this complete breakfast.

Lorin Schultz (formerly V5V)

Audio Engineer

V5V Digital Media, Vancouver, BC Canada

Reply

Lorin Schultz (formerly V5V)

Audio Engineer

V5V Digital Media, Vancouver, BC Canada

Reply
post #50 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anome View Post

I don't think anyone criticised the inclusion of a keyboard on the early Macintosh computers...

The mouse, sure, they criticised that. And they look foolish in hindsight. But the mouse was (for most people) a new way of interacting with the computer, while my point would be that a touch screen and a mouse input are, in the context of the OS, roughly equivalent. Now, touch does have a number of advantages over just a mouse. It really comes down to whether using a trackpad or touching the screen directly is better from an ergonomic point of view. My point, as laid out above, is that the trackpad is more versatile than directly touching the screen.

We usually talk about a keyboard and mouse. As in previous posts I was talking about the inclusion of the mouse. That's what it means. Here, we're talking about the keyboard and mouse vs. touch. I'm trying to say that we can use all three.

The trackpad is good too, though I don't use them. I don't use a mouse either, as I prefer a trackball.
post #51 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by djmikeo View Post

 This is why it is  ergonomically terrible. When you are standing, you can easily lean across and touch the screen without having to raise your arm up, however if you are sitting, you have to reach up and over to get to the higher parts of the screen. Especially if it is raised up a bit. I have a slight shoulder problem and there is no way I could ever work with a touch screen where I'd have to keep moving my hands up and away from the keyboard area.

My question is, if you are actually sitting in front of a computer rather than standing, then how often do you reach out to the screen? 

Sometimes. But as I'm so used to the mouse and keyboard when sitting, I don't do it as often. It happens with my Macbook Pro more often than with my Mac Pro.
post #52 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingela View Post
 

 ALL laptops screens will be touch enabled at some point. Those who do not think so will be proven as wrong as when they quote Steve Jobs about tablet size and phone size. Younger generations have come to expect it. I have come to expect it.

All horses will be faster at some point. 

iPad a Dream.
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iPad a Dream.
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