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Samsung reports second quarterly drop in profits, blames premium phone sales - Page 2

post #41 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by freediverx View Post

@brandon powell Does Samsung pay you a flat fee or per post?

It's per IQ point.

It's not a high paying job.

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post #42 of 69
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Originally Posted by Brandon Powell View Post
 

It funny when ever I see a title that has something bad to do with Samsung/Google/Android its 9/10 written by DED.

 

Almost as funny as the steady drivel of pro-Samsung Astroturfing we get from you.

post #43 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by freediverx View Post
 

 

Almost as funny as the steady drivel of pro-Samsung Astroturfing we get from you.

I am sorry im not the one dimensional type of person whose anti-anyone not apple. I love tech not just one singular company. 
post #44 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrashMyTstDummy View Post

I was pissed after buying the 3rd gen iPad only to have it replaced 6 months later with the 4th gen, at the time that seemed like a money grab. If I had known about the 4th gen I would have waited for it.

Having said that, I still have my 3rd gen and it is still running great.
How do you figure it was a money grab? I had a 3rd gen too and it ran great so I didn't feel cheated. Still got decent money for it when I sold it to upgrade to the Air.
post #45 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I think it would be unlikely for Samsung to be cooking the books in any illegal sense, but they definitely are arranging end-of-quarter sales to help make the quarter look better on paper. The problem is that it all comes to a head so any "sales" that become "refunds" will eventually be counted. Apple surely does the same thing but their small number of products and short inventory coupled with their high demands means it's minimal.

A large tech company cooking books ?
That could never happen . . .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympus_scandal
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post #46 of 69
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post #47 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by hittrj01 View Post
 

As amusing as the Samsung bubble bursting is to watch, calling this a quarterly loss is quite a bit of a stretch. They did still manage to make $8.2 BILLION (with a B).

 

Quarterly drop YoY =/= Quarterly loss

 

Yes, but it makes for a better sound bite.  Unfortunately while they probably think their wordcraft makes them brilliant, it just makes most of what they write far less credible.  I don't imagine DED will stay consistent and start reporting Apple as having taken a $5.2 billion dollar loss in 2013?

 

If you remove the pro-Apple and anti-Samsung bias from it though, Samsungs quarterly 3% drop and Apples yearly 11% drop last year does show that the 100%+ growth days of the high end of the smart phone market are over.


Edited by Frood - 4/29/14 at 6:02am
post #48 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Just imagine the backlash Apple would have if they dropped 3.3% and announced it was from weakening iPhone sales.

 

Why imagine it when you can see it?  Apple reported a loss of $5.2 billion in profits between 2013 and 2012.  Over 11%.

 

The backlash was that their stock price went up =)

 

 

(In case you didn't read earlier posts, I don't really consider an operating profit of $49 billion to be a loss, but it is quite a bit less than $54 billion and I'm staying consistent with AI math)

post #49 of 69
Quote:
The drop was blamed on slowing high-end smartphone and *flat screen* sales.

Perhaps Samsung will fix this by copying Apple and release some rounded screen phones :-)
post #50 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frood View Post
 

 

Yes, but it makes for a better sound bite.  Unfortunately while they probably think their wordcraft makes them brilliant, it just makes most of what they write far less credible.  I don't imagine DED will stay consistent and start reporting Apple as having taken a $5.2 billion dollar loss in 2013?

 

If you remove the pro-Apple and anti-Samsung bias from it though, Samsungs quarterly 3% drop and Apples yearly 11% drop last year does show that the 100%+ growth days of the high end of the smart phone market are over.

I agree that the profit growth rate of the "high end" is slowing, but the picture of these financials is that Samsung has lost its profit growth, perhaps has even peaked in its profits, while Apple's is if anything poised for a rebound. 

post #51 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by amoradala View Post

A large tech company cooking books ?
That could never happen . . .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympus_scandal

Oh, I didn't say it's impossible, only that's it's unlikely,especially for a company that is making a lot of profit. But could all that profit be part of a second accounting ledger that's fake while they are really in the red every quarter? No, it can't. That would be possible given the numbers they are working with.

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post #52 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Powell View Post
I am sorry im not the one dimensional type of person whose anti-anyone not apple. I love tech not just one singular company.

 

I love tech too, which is why I appreciate the cutting edge 64 bit greatness of my current smartphone.

 

Unfortunately such an advanced smartphone is only available from one company.

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post #53 of 69
Samsung is being more and more eaten by the Chinese smartphone brands. Expect a more difficult time for them as the market will split more in september with Apple having the premium with iPhones 6 and Samsung need to compete with cheaper asian brands.
post #54 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrashMyTstDummy View Post

I was pissed after buying the 3rd gen iPad only to have it replaced 6 months later with the 4th gen, at the time that seemed like a money grab. If I had known about the 4th gen I would have waited for it.

Having said that, I still have my 3rd gen and it is still running great.

Difference is the iPods were different gens and not a cosmetic change.
post #55 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post
 

 

I love tech too, which is why I appreciate the cutting edge 64 bit greatness of my current smartphone.

 

Unfortunately such an advanced smartphone is only available from one company.

What I don't get is the people who only want a single company to exist, there is nothing wrong with having options. When it comes to mobile, for me its Android. After they announced 64 bit processor, it was funny to see everyone scramble to catch up(and still trying). Apple rarely, if ever, has to play catch up.

On the subject of the 64 bit though; no doubt it add some speed and performance, isn't it only beneficial for graphically intense applications? correct me if im wrong

post #56 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmay View Post
 

I agree that the profit growth rate of the "high end" is slowing, but the picture of these financials is that Samsung has lost its profit growth, perhaps has even peaked in its profits, while Apple's is if anything poised for a rebound. 

 

I think 'sales growth' is slowing.  Profit growth for both Samsung and Apple, long run, is already flat to negative.  Apple sold a record number of devices in 2013, but made considerably less profit doing it.  I think Apple is doing extremely well do maintain flat or even slightly profits for 2014- I don't believe they'll get back to 2012 profitability in 2014.  Samsung I believe is in trouble without a really good way to paddle out.  Number of sales will decline, and their margins will decline.  China is attacking them from the bottom, and Apple is applying pressure with larger phones.  Tizen might be a novelty, but it is going to have a WP7esque battle getting started.

 

Apple on the other hand will face lowering sales in the long run, because like PC's in the 80's people will get to a point they just don't need to upgrade every year.  I think the exception is going to be 2015 (mostly because Q4 of 2014 falls into Apple's fiscal 2015).  I think the larger screen iPhones are going to be an absolute cash cow for Apple.  Apple can raise the price substantially and iPhone users will gladly pay.  For those that won't so 'gladly' pay- they'll pay anyway.   Most are already too heavily invested in the ecosystem to switch, and wouldn't want to even without that.

 

I think Apple phones themselves are great, but from the financial side the only thing that could thwart the above are how subsidies play out.  I think Apple will still have enough 'user clout' to squeeze another round of subsidies out of carriers- and could even get some to up their subsidies.  The threat is if there is even one holdout (T-mobile?), that holdout will be able to offer plans much less expensive than those that have to offer subsidies. If that delta gets big enough, people buying less expensive phones will migrate to the less expensive carriers and the whole subsidy system relies on the people buying cheap phones to pay the expensive plan fees to cover the subsidies.  I don't think this will be the year that happens, but when it does Apple is going to take a substantial financial hit.

post #57 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Powell View Post

What I don't get is the people who only want a single company to exist, there is nothing wrong with having options. When it comes to mobile, for me its Android. After they announced 64 bit processor, it was funny to see everyone scramble to catch up(and still trying). Apple rarely, if ever, has to play catch up.
On the subject of the 64 bit though; no doubt it add some speed and performance, isn't it only beneficial for graphically intense applications? correct me if im wrong

Who wants only one company? Is that Google's talking points?

I wouldn't mind seeing Nokia or HTC survive with Apple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frood View Post

I think 'sales growth' is slowing.  Profit growth for both Samsung and Apple, long run, is already flat to negative.  Apple sold a record number of devices in 2013, but made considerably less profit doing it.  I think Apple is doing extremely well do maintain flat or even slightly profits for 2014- I don't believe they'll get back to 2012 profitability in 2014.  Samsung I believe is in trouble without a really good way to paddle out.  Number of sales will decline, and their margins will decline.  China is attacking them from the bottom, and Apple is applying pressure with larger phones.  Tizen might be a novelty, but it is going to have a WP7esque battle getting started.

Apple on the other hand will face lowering sales in the long run, because like PC's in the 80's people will get to a point they just don't need to upgrade every year.  I think the exception is going to be 2015 (mostly because Q4 of 2014 falls into Apple's fiscal 2015).  I think the larger screen iPhones are going to be an absolute cash cow for Apple.  Apple can raise the price substantially and iPhone users will gladly pay.  For those that won't so 'gladly' pay- they'll pay anyway.   Most are already too heavily invested in the ecosystem to switch, and wouldn't want to even without that.

I think Apple phones themselves are great, but from the financial side the only thing that could thwart the above are how subsidies play out.  I think Apple will still have enough 'user clout' to squeeze another round of subsidies out of carriers- and could even get some to up their subsidies.  The threat is if there is even one holdout (T-mobile?), that holdout will be able to offer plans much less expensive than those that have to offer subsidies. If that delta gets big enough, people buying less expensive phones will migrate to the less expensive carriers and the whole subsidy system relies on the people buying cheap phones to pay the expensive plan fees to cover the subsidies.  I don't think this will be the year that happens, but when it does Apple is going to take a substantial financial hit.

Nope. People are in the mindset to upgrade every two years when their contract runs out. That's not going to change.

As for subsidies, I don't think tmobile is doing them anymore. However they offer a payment plan if the lump cost is too high. Likewise for the other carriers if they choose that route.

But why would that affect only Apple?
post #58 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Who wants only one company?
I wouldn't mind seeing Nokia or HTC survive with Apple.

I guess you don't pay attention to the comments on here. Plenty would be content if Apple was the only company. Nokia is gone already, and even licensing deals with Apple have proven fruitless for HTC.
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post #59 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

I guess you don't pay attention to the comments on here. Plenty would be content if Apple was the only company. Nokia is gone already, and even licensing deals with Apple have proven fruitless for HTC.

I think what it is that no one wants a cheating, slimy company like Sammy to survive. Or a stolen OS for that matter. 1smile.gif
post #60 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

I think what it is that no one wants a cheating, slimy company like Sammy to survive. Or a stolen OS for that matter. 1smile.gif

Be for real, if it wasn't Samsung they'd be picking on another company, stolen OS of not. Anything nonApple gets instantly ridiculed
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post #61 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

As for subsidies, I don't think tmobile is doing them anymore. However they offer a payment plan if the lump cost is too high. Likewise for the other carriers if they choose that route.

But why would that affect only Apple?

 

It wouldn't affect only Apple.  It would affect all high end pricey phones which receive heavy subsidies.  Samsung's high end phones would be equally clobbered.  When faced with being an iPhone or S5 for $700 vs a phone a tier less capable for $300, many consumers would go for the less than half price option.  Currently people buy the expensive one because it costs almost the same as the "cheaper" one and regardless of which one they but they are going to pay for it in their expensive cell plans.

 

Mid tier phones in the $300-400 range would likely see an uptake.  So while Samsung would lose overall, they at least have some icing.  Apple would either have to convince users that paying twice as much is worth it (for many here that's a no-brainer) or be forced to lower their prices to compete.  Same great phones, just a lot less money in Apple's pocket.

post #62 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frood View Post

It wouldn't affect only Apple.  It would affect all high end pricey phones which receive heavy subsidies.  Samsung's high end phones would be equally clobbered.  When faced with being an iPhone or S5 for $700 vs a phone a tier less capable for $300, many consumers would go for the less than half price option.  Currently people buy the expensive one because it costs almost the same as the "cheaper" one and regardless of which one they but they are going to pay for it in their expensive cell plans.

Mid tier phones in the $300-400 range would likely see an uptake.  So while Samsung would lose overall, they at least have some icing.  Apple would either have to convince users that paying twice as much is worth it (for many here that's a no-brainer) or be forced to lower their prices to compete.  Same great phones, just a lot less money in Apple's pocket.

Like I said, carriers would put folks in a payment plan. Low cost PCs haven't hurt the Mac bottom line.
post #63 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


How do you figure it was a money grab? I had a 3rd gen too and it ran great so I didn't feel cheated. Still got decent money for it when I sold it to upgrade to the Air.

 

I guess I was expecting a 12 month cycle for the iPad, like most other Apple products. I know now Apple was changing the cycle but at the time I couldn't understand why they just wouldn't have waited the extra 6 months before updating the iPad. They don't seem to have a 12 month cycle with the mac mini, I'm sure they could have pushed it.

 

It doesn't really matter any more, it's all in the past.

post #64 of 69
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post
Like I said, carriers would put folks in a payment plan. Low cost PCs haven't hurt the Mac bottom line.

 

We’re already in a payment plan. The subsidy is recouped in the monthly bill. And it’s recouped even if we don’t have one. :grumble:

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post #65 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post
 

 

It's the killing of the dinosaurs all over again...

 

 

The first dinosaur was Nokia? Or BB? or Motorola? :p

post #66 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by helia View Post

The first dinosaur was Nokia? Or BB? or Motorola? 1tongue.gif

Hopefully the iPhone 6 will inject some new innovation into a slowing market. Not so much a case of extinction but smartphones have reached a plateau?
post #67 of 69
@hittrj01

LOL just my thought they are making BILLIONS and this article makes it sound like a bad news 1smile.gif

By the way i move from both Android and iOS to Windows Phone 8.1 (Nokia 1520) and i just love it.
Funny no one seem to think there are other options beside the 2 big ones 1smile.gif
post #68 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by reza666 View Post

@hittrj01

LOL just my thought they are making BILLIONS and this article makes it sound like a bad news 1smile.gif

By the way i move from both Android and iOS to Windows Phone 8.1 (Nokia 1520) and i just love it.
Funny no one seem to think there are other options beside the 2 big ones 1smile.gif

 

They are not bad...

 

...for old people.

 

Big screen, customise the tiles, big phone, SMS and photo tiles and that's most of the grannies covered.

 

I sell a lot that way.

Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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post #69 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post
 

 

They are not bad...

 

...for old people.

 

Big screen, customise the tiles, big phone, SMS and photo tiles and that's most of the grannies covered.

 

I sell a lot that way.


Or people who want to watch movies, read books and relax their eyes. Many friends are moving from their iPhones for the small screen.

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