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Jury awards Apple $119.6M, Samsung $158K in damages after finding both guilty of patent... - Page 3

post #81 of 287

Peanuts. Too Bad.

All of that money spent on lawsuits when we could have had new products instead.

 
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post #82 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlApple View Post

It is a win for Samsung. What they stole is worth more than the penalty they paid. If you can steal something that has a worth of 2.2 billion and only have to pay back 120 million that is a big win. I assume any company would take that offer.

Yes. According to Apples legal team Samsung stole 2B. To only get 5% of that is definitely a loss of sorts.

It reminds me a bit of the defamation cases where the jury awards a dollar. You won, you were defamed, but your reputation is worth $1.
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post #83 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlApple View Post

It is a win for Samsung. What they stole is worth more than the penalty they paid. If you can steal something that has a worth of 2.2 billion and only have to pay back 120 million that is a big win. I assume any company would take that offer.

But they will take a huge hit in public perception. They will be known as copycats.

Brand name is incredibly important in consumer electronics.

Apples brand name is worth over $120B

I'm pretty sure this hit on Samsungs name will be more than $2B
post #84 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

I know apple needs to release a large phone to compete with samsung, because without one they don't stand a chance. But I'm failing to remember which samsung phone outsells the iPhone. If you could help me remember that'd really help solidify our point of how much better samsung is

I'll just wait here...

That's a contradictory statement. If Apple is handedly beating Samsung why does it need to do anything more to compete with it?
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post #85 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Or the lawyers could be let go, seeing as they haven't achieved much.

Samsung are now proven- twice- of Willfull infringement.

Literally saying, "I know I stole and it was wrong, but I did it anyway and I'd do if again"

Their time is coming. I had a samsung tv and washer/dryer. Washer and dryer still going strong. When I replaced my tv I didn't even consider a samsung. Those educated in the matter and with morals will do the same. Those without the knowledge or moral standards won't. But I'm glad it's getting aired because more morally conscious people are educated with every blow samsung takes.

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post #86 of 287

Lesson number two from this trial...

 

Apple could flood the market with inexpensive plastic phones and utterly destroy Samsung.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #87 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo63 View Post

$119.6M? Seriously? This is a win for Samsung.

 

It's a loss, but a win in aggregate. Lesson: if you're a big corporation crime pays.

Not sure about that. 

First, if it's found to be willful, damages could be tripled: the $120 million judgment could become $360 million. Second, for the second time, a comprehensive jury trial has shown Samsung to have engaged in IP thievery (they're only haggling about the 'price' of that thievery). Third, while Apple was shown to have violated one minor Samsung camera-related patent (for $158,000), Samsung is being fined 750x the amount that Apple is.

I think that the most important outcome is, verdicts like this will make Samsung -- and their ilk -- think twice about casually ripping off IP in the future.
post #88 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktappe View Post

It is also FACT that Samsung was found guilty of more than one infringement whereas Apple had only one. It is FACT that the jury and the judge both deemed Apple's infringement of a much lesser scale than Samsung's. The world is not black & white, no matter how many times and how hard you try to portray it so.

So because Samsung was found guilty as was Apple and that Samsung will only receive roughly 2% of what they asked for and Apple will receive roughly 9% of what they asked for. I'm not seeing your logic. They both were guilty. Apple was guilty. Get that through you head. It's like you're trying to give Apple a pass.
post #89 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by pazuzu View Post

Peanuts. Too Bad.
All of that money spent on lawsuits when we could have had new products instead.

Yes. I'm sure Ive and Mansfield were working 80 hours a week on depositions. Troll.

Must be pathetic for samsung to be found guilty of being a thief and considering it a victory. Sorry Apple has higher standards of victory
post #90 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

But they will take a huge hit in public perception. They will be known as copycats.

Brand name is incredibly important in consumer electronics.

Apples brand name is worth over $120B

I'm pretty sure this hit on Samsungs name will be more than $2B

I doubt Average Man on the Street will know much if anything at all about this.
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post #91 of 287
Most of these software patents were useless and obvious. they shouldn't even be patents. At least these next to nothing software patents received next to nothing value. Good day for innovation. Will be a better day when software patents a put in a proper independent class.
post #92 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlApple View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post


Huh? He said its a win for samsung. So I assume you mean to AGREE with me that he's out of his mind.

It is a win for Samsung. What they stole is worth more than the penalty they paid. If you can steal something that has a worth of 2.2 billion and only have to pay back 120 million that is a big win. I assume any company would take that offer.

its a win when you steal, lie, are found guilty in the court in front of the public, and have to pay hundreds of millions of dollars. Hope these are not the same values you live your life by. If so, I got a shocker for you.  That does not make a winner. 

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post #93 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Tianao View Post

uh huh, just playing along with your pretty stupid point, but don't you think the money is better invested with those "different skilled workers" than wasted on legal resources, akin to dumping the money in a casino? Oh, Apple has billions, they can dump it everywhere. Great long term thinking there.

When Apple won vs HTC- what were they able to negotiate? If I recall it was $5-7/phone, on top of the judgement.

So if they get $3 of every samsung phone that uses those patents- you don't think that's worth it financially? Why are the detractors so short sighted. It ain't just $120 mil

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post #94 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

When Apple won vs HTC- what were they able to negotiate? If I recall it was $5-7/phone, on top of the judgement.

So if they get $3 of every samsung phone that uses those patents- you don't think that's worth it financially? Why are the detractors so short sighted. It ain't just $120 mil

Exactly. Its about setting precedent.

Now winning cases against the S4, S5, Note, Note2, Note3, and every future Samdung phone will be a slam dunk.
post #95 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

When Apple won vs HTC- what were they able to negotiate? If I recall it was $5-7/phone, on top of the judgement.

So if they get $3 of every samsung phone that uses those patents- you don't think that's worth it financially? Why are the detractors so short sighted. It ain't just $120 mil

Those figures were only guesses Andysol. Could have been as little as a couple of dollars or less. All that generally known is that HTC is a net payer in the cross-license agreement. No one is telling any details. Kinda like how much Microsoft is getting for their Android licensing. None of the figures bandied about have come from any of the parties involved.
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post #96 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterbob View Post

Most of these software patents were useless and obvious. they shouldn't even be patents. At least these next to nothing software patents received next to nothing value. Good day for innovation. Will be a better day when software patents a put in a proper independent class.

obviously you have never written any code and have any idea how it relates to hard work.

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post #97 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

That's a contradictory statement. If Apple is handedly beating Samsung why does it need to do anything more to compete with it?

That was my point. I was being sarcastic in mocking the troll- any logical person could see the fallacies of his statement.

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post #98 of 287

All of Apple's ideas are just a natural progression of technology. Of course now it is obvious there is no other logical way to make a phone, so the technology should be freely available for anyone to copy. You just need to make your design better and smarter, and faster, and become the king of the jungle. Clearly the patent office is not going to protect you.


Edited by mstone - 5/2/14 at 6:31pm

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post #99 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post


You're right. That said- you want to support a company with those ethics?

Look- I hate taxes- hate them. But I pay them. I don't pay the "grey area" crap because money isn't everything to me and I want to look myself in the mirror and have integrity. So no, my company wouldn't and doesn't do that crap.

No I don't support Samsung at all. I would never want a company to get over on the US patent system we have in place. The problem is most don't take it seriously. Like I said it would be hard to convince a jury that Apple is a victim because of their size and net worth. Remember less than 5% of civil cases ever go to a jury, this is why. No one ever really wants to leave something in the hands of a jury. 

 

A verdict like this will embolden others to steal. I believe a jury always tries to do their best but sometimes the nature of the case and the evidence is over their heads. Having experts from MIT try to explain valuation to a jury is not an easy situation. 

 

We live in a world where stealing music, movies, video games and computer software is common happening million of times a day. It's seen as a victimless crime. Doesn't make it right just makes it hard to win a case like this given the mindset.

post #100 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirLance99 View Post


So because Samsung was found guilty as was Apple and that Samsung will only receive roughly 2% of what they asked for and Apple will receive roughly 9% of what they asked for. I'm not seeing your logic. They both were guilty. Apple was guilty. Get that through you head. It's like you're trying to give Apple a pass.

 

How is what they asked for in any way relevant to the decision the jury handed down? Apple was awarded 782x more than Samsung and you are trying to say they are equally guilty. I think your math is way more wrong than you're grasping at trying to say mine is. (It is becoming apparent that you know you are wrong and really are running out of legs to stand on in the argument. Is Samsung paying you to come on here and defend them in any way possible?)

post #101 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirLance99 View Post

So because Samsung was found guilty as was Apple and that Samsung will only receive roughly 2% of what they asked for and Apple will receive roughly 9% of what they asked for. I'm not seeing your logic. They both were guilty. Apple was guilty. Get that through you head. It's like you're trying to give Apple a pass.

Willfull

Not Willfull

There's a Difference

Get that through your head

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post #102 of 287
How very anticlimactic.
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post #103 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Tianao View Post

Well if you read the verdict closely, you will see that Jury found Apple infringed as well.. Does that make Apple a thieving company as well? confused.

Are you really confused?
Because I don't think you are.

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post #104 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirLance99 View Post

So because Samsung was found guilty as was Apple and that Samsung will only receive roughly 2% of what they asked for and Apple will receive roughly 9% of what they asked for. I'm not seeing your logic. They both were guilty. Apple was guilty. Get that through you head. It's like you're trying to give Apple a pass.

Willfull

Not Willfull

There's a Difference

Get that through your head

Its similar to the difference between manslaughter and first degree premeditated murder.  Or.. I didn't mean to do it, the gun just went off by accident vs I planned it for a long time and tried to not get caught.

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post #105 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post
 

its a win when you steal, lie, are found guilty in the court in front of the public, and have to pay hundreds of millions of dollars. Hope these are not the same values you live your life by. If so, I got a shocker for you.  That does not make a winner. 

It's not my ethics. However if a company doesn't have ethics then their strategy won. This won't be a PR issue for Samsung most of the general population could care less. An enthusiast forum is not an accurate representation of the general public. 

post #106 of 287
The google Andy Rubin is lousy computer programmer and ex apple employee. The google should not to buy Samsung phone maker vendor.
post #107 of 287
We're detecting a huge increase in troll activity in sectors 3 and 4. Does anyone have a visual on the suspects?

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post #108 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlApple View Post

It is a win for Samsung. What they stole is worth more than the penalty they paid. If you can steal something that has a worth of 2.2 billion and only have to pay back 120 million that is a big win. I assume any company would take that offer.

That $2.2B was from Apple. That does not mean they were worth that actual amount. When you go to court you ask for more than what you think you can get. There is no way they were with $2.2B. They are worth something but not that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

You're right. That said- you want to support a company with those ethics?

Look- I hate taxes- hate them. But I pay them. I don't pay the "grey area" crap because money isn't everything to me and I want to look myself in the mirror and have integrity. So no, my company wouldn't and doesn't do that crap.

You really think that a corporation like Apple doesn't do anything unethical?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

Samsung are now proven- twice- of Willfull infringement.

Literally saying, "I know I stole and it was wrong, but I did it anyway and I'd do if again"

Their time is coming. I had a samsung tv and washer/dryer. Washer and dryer still going strong. When I replaced my tv I didn't even consider a samsung. Those educated in the matter and with morals will do the same. Those without the knowledge or moral standards won't. But I'm glad it's getting aired because more morally conscious people are educated with every blow samsung takes.

Apple does many things that are not moral as well. Maybe you should educate yourself as well. Apple is not free from doing bad, immoral, and unethical things. Maybe not as much as other companies but they are still a world wide corporation.
post #109 of 287
Let's FILE A CLASS ACTION SUIT Against NASD, NASD Regulation, Nasdaq Stock Market and Against ALL Those Concerned with " Manipulating Market ", " Fraud Transactions " and " Runaway EXPLOITATION " Relating to AAPL out of Market !



Regardless that YOU HAVE READ Michael Lewis' " FLASH BOYS : A Wall Street REVOLT ", What is Described in The Book Has LONG Been " PUBLIC TABOO " Among Those WHO Are Engaged in MARKET BUSINESS.



It's HIGH TIME for All The Sincere and Healthy Stock Owners of AAPL All Over The World to Do THAT, Demanding Thorough COMPENSATION FOR THE LOSS during THESE 24 Months Since 2012 including ALL THE PROFITS that Could Have Been Gained without Nasty Mal-Practices by VILLAIN, Demanding THOROUGH Investigations on Present ENTITY OF TRANSACTIONS, FULL DETAILS on Activities and Transaction Histories of High Frequency Traders Such As " Getco " and " Night Capital " Together With What-is-Called " Front Running EXPLOITATION " by Them, and ALSO Demanding Full Investigation on " Algorithm Tradings " which is Said to be A Main Factor that Caused " *Flash Clash " Happened in Wall Street in 2010 and Are Causing All The Stock Price Manipulation As A Whole in Current Situation.


IN THE SIX YEARS SINCE the Collapse of Lehman Bros. ( Sep. 2008 ) that STUNNED The World and STOLE The Half of WORLD's Value, We Expected " World Would Be BETTER FOR THIS - Learning Lessons out of Collapse Caused by Villain's MALICIOUS FINANCIAL PRACTICES.
But, Then Again, The Situation NOW Looks MORE AND MORE AGGRAVATING, DETERIORATING, Simply WORSENED !!!!!!


Government's and Concerned Institutions( Such As SEC & CFTC )' Role As A Watch Dog NEVER FANCTION NOW !
Because Many of Ex-Top of SEC Have Been Recruited for VILLAIN's Side ( Such As Getco ) These Years.

We Need An ACTION NOW. Otherwise THIS.







Edited by HAMETA - 5/3/14 at 1:43am
post #110 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

That was my point. I was being sarcastic in mocking the troll- any logical person could see the fallacies of his statement.

Apologies then. I'm tired and my sardar (sarcasm radar) is off. 1wink.gif
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post #111 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by tastowe View Post

The google Andy Rubin is lousy computer programmer and ex apple employee. The google should not to buy Samsung phone maker vendor.

Sorry, but the Korean-to-English translator app you are using needs more refinement. 1wink.gif

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post #112 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

How very anticlimactic.

It's called Karma.

 
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post #113 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirLance99 View Post

That $2.2B was from Apple. That does not mean they were worth that actual amount. When you go to court you ask for more than what you think you can get. There is no way they were with $2.2B. They are worth something but not that.
You really think that a corporation like Apple doesn't do anything unethical?
Apple does many things that are not moral as well. Maybe you should educate yourself as well. Apple is not free from doing bad, immoral, and unethical things. Maybe not as much as other companies but they are still a world wide corporation.

Are you and Brian Tariano on a tandem bike? You guys keep pedaling and keep pedaling.

You literally just told me everything it said was right, but then try to distract me by saying "look over here- apple is bad too" thinking I'll forget about samsung?

Apples and oranges man. Samsung is the worst of the worst of the worst. You need to educate yourself. I get it- you don't like apple. Fine. Don't. Go buy an HTC, LG, Nokia, Nexus- anything. Defending samsung makes you, also, look like a scumbag.

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post #114 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirLance99 View Post


Just how am I'm peddling? When in FACT just as Samsung was found guilty Apple was found guilty. So what you're saying is that it doesn't matter that Apple was found guilty?

Look, I think this whole thing is BS and both should fight on the field with products and not in the courts. Apple is not all that Holy as you seem to think they are. They do many bad things just like every single corporation in the world. That's just how it is unfortunately.

 

People (and trolls/haters) like you tend to ignore penalties and try to convert this to a black and white affair as if all companies who do something wrong are all equal. They aren't. If you commit a crime you could get a weekend in jail or 50 years in prison. Depends on the severity of that crime.

 

Samsung has to pay 757 times as much as Apple does. Clearly Apples patents are far more valuable and/or Samsung was the bigger thief.

 

 

Reading Foss over the last few weeks it's clear he's switched sides. While I gave him the benefit of the doubt for having critical opinions of Apple, it's now clear that something's up.

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post #115 of 287

That is about 15 cents a share boost for AAPL if the verdict were paid in full.  This should not effect the stock price. 

post #116 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by HAMETA View Post

Let's FILE A CLASS ACTION SUIT Against NASD, NASD Regulation, Nasdaq Stock Market and Against ALL Those Concerned with " Manipulating Market ", " Fraud Transactions " and " Runaway EXPOITATION " Relating to AAPL out of Market !



Regardless that YOU HAVE READ Michael Lewis's " FLASH BOYS : A Wall Street REVOLT ", Whai is Described in The Book Has LONG Been " PUBLIC TABOO " Among Those WHO Are Engaged in MARKET BUSINESS.



It's HIGH TIME for All The Sincere and Healthy Stock Owners of AAPL All Over The World to Do THAT, Demanding Thorough COMPENSATION FOR THE LOSS during THESE 24 Months Since 2012 including ALL THE PROFITS that Could Have Been Gained without Nasty Mal-Practices by VILLAIN, Demanding THOROUGH Investigations on Present ENTITY OF TRANSACTIONS, FULL DETAILS on Activities and Transaction Histories of High Fequency Traders Such As " Getco " and " Night Capital " Together With What-is-Called " Front Running EXPLOITATION " by Them, and ALSO Demanding Full Investigation on " Algorithm Tradings " which is Said to be A Main Factor that Caused " *Flash Clash " Happened in Wall Street in 2010 " .


IN THE SIX YEARS SINCE the Collapse of Lehman Bros. ( Sep. 2008 ) that STUNNED The World and STOLE The Half of WORLD's Value, We Expected " World Would Be BETEER FOR THIS - Learning Lessons out of Collapse Caused by Villain's MALICIOUS FINANCIAL PRACTICES.
But, Then Again, The Situation NOW Looks MORE AND MORE AGGRAVATING, DETERIORATING, Simply WORSENED !!!!!!


Government's and Concerned Institutions( Such As SEC & CFTC )' Role As A Watch Dog NEVER FANCTION NOW !
Because Many of Ex-Top of SEC Have Been Recruited for VILLAIN's Side ( Such As Getco ) These Years.

We Need An ACTION NOW. Otherwise THIS.







Ahh my EYES!!! 

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post #117 of 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

Are you and Brian Tariano on a tandem bike? You guys keep pedaling and keep pedaling.

You literally just told me everything it said was right, but then try to distract me by saying "look over here- apple is bad too" thinking I'll forget about samsung?

Apples and oranges man. Samsung is the worst of the worst of the worst. You need to educate yourself. I get it- you don't like apple. Fine. Don't. Go buy an HTC, LG, Nokia, Nexus- anything. Defending samsung makes you, also, look like a scumbag.

Um...I like Apple just fine thank you. Have bought many of their products and will continue to do so in the future. I also have never said Samsung is free and clear of being guilty. Samsung does things I don't agree with on many occasions as does Apple. It just seems that you think Apple is guilt free and does absolutely no wrong. Ever.
post #118 of 287
Judge Koh seems to be giving Samsung huge cuts, the same thing happened in the last trial. Although Apple won, she kinda sliced the amount to insignificance.
It seems Samsung is actually coming out on top in these trials, their penalty is marginal in comparison to the profits they raked in.
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post #119 of 287

In terms of raw numbers, I think it's safe to say Apple is disappointed and Samsung is happy, though both will spin it to high heaven. For better or for worse, it probably doesn't materially change the conversation either as their products have continued to diverge over the last couple years.

 

As current Samsung products use the workarounds approved by the ITC, I'm curious where this continues to go. Apple can and should continue to collect damages for past products that infringed before the workarounds were implemented, but it's chump change for both companies. Apple hasn't gained any patent traction outside the US, and there's not going to be any injunction in the US against products as the workarounds are approved, and some patents are apparently on their way to being Posnered, aka overturned.

 

So the lawyers will continue to litigate for years to come and collect tens of millions of dollars in fees, but IMO this is a story where the volume goes down from here. Both companies now compete where they should - in the marketplace with differentiated products.

post #120 of 287
I suspect that the judge will
nullify the jury verdict and issue a directed verdict from the bench.
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