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Apple's iPad business isn't collapsing, but the rest of the tablet industry sure is

post #1 of 150
Thread Starter 
When Apple announced its most recent quarterly earnings, the worst news out of Cupertino was that sales of iPads weren't greater than in the year-ago quarter, a fact that a few pundits have now jumped on to declare that "Apple's iPad Businesses Is Collapsing." That's wrong, here's why.

BSInsider


Ships that leak from the top



There's no way to spin facts to suggest that Apple didn't sell fewer iPads in the first calendar quarter of 2014 (Apple's fiscal Q2) compared to the year-ago quarter. Apple, the only tablet maker to report its actual tablet sales, volunteered the data showing that it shipped 3.1 million fewer devices in the March quarter.

Apple's chief executive Tim Cook did try to ameliorate the news by pointing out that, accounting for shifting inventory levels compared to the previous year, iPad sales were only down by about 3 percent, or essentially flat.

"iPad sales came in at the high end of our expectations," Cook told analysts, "but we realized they were below analyst estimates, and I would like to proactively address why we think there was a difference. We believe almost all of the difference can be explained by two factors. First, in the March quarter last year, we significantly increased iPad channel inventory, while this year we significantly reduced it.

"Second, we ended the December quarter last year with a substantial backlog with iPad mini that was subsequently shipped in the March quarter, whereas we ended the December quarter this year near supply demand balance."

Apple's corporate controller Luca Maestri backed up Cook's statement with details showing that Apple had sold more iPads to users (17.5 million) in Q2 than it had shipped into its global inventory channel (16.4 million), leaving the channel depleted by 1.1 million units compared to the beginning of the quarter.

That's the opposite of Samsung's "quite smooth" tablet report from 2010, when it claimed to have shipped impressive millions of tablets, achieved by only counting inventory "sell in" in order to obscure the fact that Samsung had actually seen no significant sales to users at all.

IDC, the same research firm that fell hook, line and sinker for Samsung's accounting back then, was similarly confused (perhaps willfully?) by the impact of inventory shifts on global shipments and sales in the most recent quarter.

Forget that Media Tablet nonsense; Windows netbooks are now tablets!



In addition to carrying on its schtick of being perpetually bamboozled by the difference between product sales and "inventory shipments," IDC has also introduced an entirely new accounting trick in its "Worldwide Quarterly Tablet Tracker" figures.

Like last year's accounting innovation of dumping kid's tablets and toys into its total figures in order to minimize record sales of iPads and portray Apple's "share" of the "market" as diminishing, IDC is now categorizing Windows 8.1 "2-in-1" netbooks as part of its tablet figures.



This is a reversal of its original "Media Tablet" shenanigans from the early days of iPads, when IDC, Gartner and others all suddenly decided to silo tablets that don't run Windows in their own product category rather than including them in PC sales--after years of including Windows netbooks and tablets in its PC figures, a tactic that helped to marginalize Mac market share.

Separating iPads from PCs helped prevent anyone from observing the troubling trend that IDC was most certainly aware of early on: iPads were indeed competing directly with conventional PCs, and they were increasingly winning over buyers, a trend that is today simply impossible to ignore. IDC didn't want anyone to know that, and hid the trend for as long as it possibly could. It simply can't hide that fact anymore.

So now IDC has reversed course and is including anything it possibly can in its definition of "tablet." Last year it was toys, and this year the emphasis is being placed on netbook-hybrids like the Asus T100 (below), an x86 notebook running the desktop version of Windows 8.1.

Asus T100


That's the very same kind of product that IDC and others once stridently argued were nothing like the iPad and other "Media Tablets" because Apple's iOS and Windows were so drastically different that they could not possibly be compared within the same market.

In the words of IDC-2011, any mobile products using "full PC operating systems," or in other words, Microsoft Windows, were not Media Tablets. The company expected Apple's iPad to compete only against products like Samsung's Galaxy Tab, predicting, "Media tablet market growth is expected to accelerate significantly in 1Q11 with new products from multiple high-profile device vendors, including Motorola's Xoom, based on Android 3.0 (Honeycomb), and RIM's BlackBerry PlayBook based on BlackBerry Tablet OS."

Instead of that happening, Google's Honeycomb, Motorola's Xoom and BlackBerry PlayBook all flopped along with Samsung's Tab. Just weeks after IDC's press release, Apple's Steve Jobs launched iPad 2, noting that the original iPad had sold over 15 million units, more than all the Windows Tablet PCs that had been sold over the previous decade. And it was clear users were buying iPads in place of PCs.



Unlike the eviscerating assault on PCs delivered by the millions of iPads that Apple sold in its first year, IDC's modern decision to dump Windows netbooks into its tablet figures isn't based on some new surge in netbook interest or an attempt to draw attention to a new popular trend toward "2-in-1" devices.

As noted by Jitesh Ubrani, IDC's Research Analyst cited in the firm's Worldwide Quarterly Tablet Tracker press release, "although its share of the market remains small, Windows devices continue to gain traction thanks to sleeper hits like the Asus T100, whose low cost and 2-in-1 form factor appeal to those looking for something that's 'good enough'."

By "gain traction," Ubrani can't possibly be referring to the Asus shipments he cited, because they decreased over the year-ago quarter from 2.6 million to 2.5 million, at least in the chart (above) that appeared next to those words in the press release. That's not "gaining traction," it's retracting gains.

Pay no attention to those figures behind the currents!



If you find the cognitive dissonance within IDC's own press release to be troubling, let's turn up the uncomfortable dial by looking at what IDC reported a year ago. Prepare yourself, because it's not the same as what IDC is now reporting that it reported a year ago.

IDC's Q1 2013 tablet shipments for Asus announced in May 2013 were 2.7 million (below). The very vendor that IDC is highlighting as having a "sleeper hit" is not only experiencing a decrease in shipments, but is decreasing faster than IDC is currently reporting it did.

That's not only bad news for Asus, but also for Microsoft and Google, because Asus is the manufacturer of both Google's Nexus 7 and the "sleeper hit" of the Windows 8.1 tablet/netbook world. And its total year over year tablet sales are not only flat, but tiny, even when you lump netbooks in to thumb the scales against iPad.

Asus isn't the only tablet vendor for which IDC retroactively recalculated its historical figures; Samsung was also reported to have sold 8.8 million tablets in Q1 2013 last year (below), but only 8.5 million tablets in this year's version of IDC's Q1 2013 numbers (above).



That's an "oops" big enough to give every female in Portland, Oregon a Samsung tablet, and then take them all back a year later. Even on sale, that would amount to $129 million worth of missing Galaxy Tab 10.1 units, or more than Judge Lucy Koh's jury determined Samsung should pay for appropriating Apple Data Detectors.

IDC's total tablet shipments for Q1 2013 were also retroactively lowered this year, from the original 49.2 million figure to 48.6 million this year. It's certainly possible that IDC, after consulting with its clients over the past year, has simply collected enough new information to determine that its year-ago shipment figures attributed to them were simply too high. However, IDC didn't have to adjust the estimated historical shipment numbers for the rest of the entire tablet and netbook industry; that number remained fixed at 15.5 million.

Of course, IDC's tablet numbers for Apple stayed the same because IDC doesn't have the creative license to reestimate them, given that Apple comes out and plainly reports how many were actually shipped (although that didn't stop Gartner). However, IDC's portrayal of Apple's year-ago tablet "market share" retroactively went up this year because of those disappearing Asus and Samsung tablets, making it look like Apple's share dropped faster year over year than even IDC's estimated numbers suggest. There is no statistic that IDC won't torture to draw attention to anything and everything other than the iPad.

Since the appearance of Apple's iPad, IDC has proven its ability change the definition of tablet back and forth, report inflated figures for Apple's competitors in order to create unflattering market share comparisons, then deflate those same numbers a year later to create unflattering growth comparisons. There is no statistic that IDC won't torture to draw attention to anything and everything other than the iPad.

And at no point does IDC (or the other firms that do the same thing, including Gartner and Strategy Analytics) ever draw attention to the number-play it uses to coax out its widely advertised analysis of the state of the tablet market. Nor does the tech media seem interested, curious or critical enough to investigate any of the claims or conclusions that these firms make.

Is Apple close to losing its dominance in tablet sales?



Jim Edwards, impressed by IDC's numerology, boldly stated to his Business Insider audience that "iPad sales today have declined to the level they were three years ago."

Three years ago, Apple sold 4.69 million iPads in Q2, so Edwards' statement is literally wrong. The 16.35 million iPads Apple delivered in its most recent Q2 is over 348 percent higher than three years ago. That's not a decline, any more than Asus selling fewer tablets and netbooks is an example of Windows devices "gaining traction."

But what about Samsung, which in IDC's estimates is now shipping 22.3 percent of the world's tablet inventory, compared to "only" 32.5 percent attributed to Apple? According to IDC's latest version of its figures, Apple's market share is dropping and Samsung's is increasing, causing Edwards to conclude that "Samsung is literally taking Apple's customers."

The key to understanding why this statement is also completely bonkers is to look at the definition of "customer," which involves a concept suspiciously missing from both IDC's figures and their blindly faithful regurgitation by a site that puzzlingly calls itself Business Insider: money.

Apple is not only the sole company to report unit sales of tablets; it's also the only company that reports its tablet revenue. It just reported having delivered 16.35 million iPads and collecting $7.61 billion dollars from iPad sales in fiscal Q2. Apple is not only the sole company to report unit sales of tablets; it's also the only company that reports its tablet revenue

Both figures are lower than the year-ago quarter, but unit sales were down more than revenues because, as Apple notes in its 10Q filing, "iPad ASPs [Average Selling Prices] increased approximately 4% during the second quarter of 2014 compared to the second quarter of 2013 primarily as a result of a shift in mix towards iPad mini with Retina display and iPad Air."

As Apple raised its iPad ASPs by embellishing its product offerings, its sales to end users remained flat as its inventories depleted, creating shipment figures that appeared to be down by 16 percent. In reality, Apple's iPad shipments and revenues essentially remained flat compared to the previous year.

At the same time, Mac sales were up 5 percent and iPhones were up 17 percent, so overall Apple earned over $1 billion more than in the year-ago quarter, despite spending more on employee compensation, strategic acquisitions, increased research and development and other investments.

Rather than collapsing, Apple's iPad business is refusing to collapse, even in the face of broad availability of much cheaper Android devices first launched years ago. Apple isn't in panic mode or it would be scrambling to introduce cheaper tablets, rather than fancier ones with higher price points supported by demand so great that it increased iPad ASPs over the previous year.

It would be hard to imagine a definition for "dominating" a market segment that is more powerful than Apple's top selling, price insensitive iPad standing on the face of a variety of alternatives that sell for a fraction of the cost.

Even IDC has to admit that Samsung's best shot at "selling" tablets amounts to giving them away, remarking that "Samsung continues to work aggressively with carriers to drive tablet shipments through attractively priced smartphone bundles."

Free Galaxy Tab vs Nexus 7


Samsung's signs of collapse



If Samsung were "literally taking Apple's customers," one would expect to see even better performance from that company, but Samsung Mobile (the unit that makes its phones, tablets and PCs) reported revenues that were down by $786 million (810 billion KRW) from its year-ago quarter. Its profits were down, too, by more than $77 million over the year-ago quarter.

However, Samsung's device shipments were up dramatically. According to IDC, Samsung pushed out 15.3 million more smartphones and 2.7 million more tablets in Q1 2014 compared to its latest version of shipment estimates for Samsung one year ago.

Strategy Analytics estimated that Samsung shipped nearly 20 million more smartphones than in the year-ago quarter, illustrating how absurd these marketing companies' various "estimates" are.

As for Samsung tablet estimates, Strategy Analytics wants $6999 for its report, offering for free only its line that "Apple iPad shipments were below expectations and iOS lost market share."

SA $6999


By anyone's estimates, while Apple's revenues from tablets came in solidly flat with a minor increase in ASPs, Samsung's smartphone and tablet ASPs were plummeting along with its revenues, taking down profits along with it. That sounds like the definition of "collapse."

And unlike Apple's increasing Mac and surging iPhone sales, Samsung doesn't have the profitable PC, netbook or premium smartphone sales to offset the fact that it is producing many millions of additional mobile products and bringing in less revenues and lower profits to show for it.

How will Samsung turn this around: by raising prices? By increasing the sophistication of its products? It tried to do that with the Galaxy S4 last year, but in that arena its premium sales remained flat as its customer base flocked toward cheaper devices that make no money.

Imagine clocking the overtime to build 32 percent more tablets and 22 percent more smartphones, but getting paid less. How long would you keep that job?

Now imagine how the rest of the tablet industry is coping with the world's second largest tablet producer dumping millions of its products into market for free. In the ad above, even Google's price-slashed AdWords promotion for Nexus 7 looks expensive when compared against the free Galaxy Tab 3.

Asus/Google Nexus 7, Amazon Kindle & Microsoft Surface tablets are also collapsing



Last May, IDC was praising the "350 percent" tablet growth by third place Asus, which it said "continued to see decent tablet shipment demand from the highly marketed Nexus 7 device," and "157 percent" tablet growth at Amazon, along with some cautious optimism for Microsoft's Surface.

One year later, IDC has not only retroactively toned down its "decent" view of Asus tablet shipments from last year (as noted above), but reported that Asus shipments in the most recent quarter were down even more. Asus just reported a 3 percent drop in net profits for the quarter compared to the year-ago quarter. Despite boasting a low price and ubiquitous (but apparently ineffectual) promotion through AdWords, Google's "highly marketed," Asus-built Nexus 7 not only failed to earn a profit, but failed to grow its shipments at all.

Despite boasting a low price and ubiquitous (but apparently ineffectual) promotion through AdWords, Google's "highly marketed," Asus-built Nexus 7 not only failed to earn a profit, but failed to grow its shipments at all. Or you might say "collapsed."

Amazon's Kindle Fire tablets similarly boasted a price advantage, but that wasn't enough to sustain its 1.8 million shipments from the year-ago quarter, when its Fire sales were a tenth the size of Apple's. Rather than remaining flat like Apple's iPad, IDC says Amazon's sales have dropped to 1.0 million. Or you might say, "collapsed."

Microsoft's Surface was estimated by IDC to have shipped 0.9 million devices in the year-ago quarter, but we now know from Microsoft's financial statements that the company has only continued to lose millions of dollars while sales haven't improved. With Microsoft now focused on delivering its best version of Office apps for iPad first, you might say the company's optimism for Surface ever selling at all has "collapsed."

The rest of the world's tablet producers, according to IDC, are made up of companies with fewer than 1 million shipments each. They have collectively increased their shipments by 11.5 percent, or perhaps have been joined by additional newcomers each producing smaller tablet runs than Amazon or Microsoft. Last year, IDC claimed that this group of "Other" had seen its shipments increase by a whopping 216.3 percent over Q1 2012, so this batch of tablet vendors, literally everyone else in the tablet business, has also seen its growth, well, "collapse."

other tablets


Apple continues to see tablets taking over PCs



Given that everyone else's tablet shipments are far smaller than Apple's, losing lots of money and seeing their historical growth rates plummet (even as IDC downgrades its estimates of what it previously reported as tablet growth), it now makes sense why Apple's executives are expressing confidence about the future of tablets and the iPad's role within the overall tablet market. "We continue to believe that the tablet market will surpass the PC market in size within the next few years," Cook told analysts last week, adding, "and we believe that Apple will be a major beneficiary of this trend." - Tim Cook

"We continue to believe that the tablet market will surpass the PC market in size within the next few years," Cook told analysts last week, adding, "and we believe that Apple will be a major beneficiary of this trend."

At the same time, while iPads are having a clearly erosive effect on the overall growth of conventional PCs, Apple also reported new growth in Macs.

Were Apple desperately afraid of the impact that lower margin, lower priced iPads might have on its Mac line, you might expect the company to widely differentiate iPads from MacBooks in price.

Instead, Apple just dropped its popular MacBook Air line by $100, leaving a price overlap between high-end iPads and low-end MacBook Airs. That suggests even more confidence at Apple that both of its product lines compete more with existing PCs than with each other.

The opposite of "collapse" might be "solidify into a powerful foundation"



The examples of iPad adoption cited by Apple's corporate controller Maestri also indicate that iPads are finding new customers in new use cases. Maestri said, "thousands of iPads are used at FedEx everyday. In an industry where efficiency is critical FedEx pilots and maintenance crews around the world use iPad to transform operational processes and save the company millions of dollars."

Maestri also drew attention to the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs, which he said was "on its way to deploying iPads to 11,000 providers to transform the way doctors and patients interact. As part of this initiative, a suite of applications is being developed to allow quick access to real-time secure medical information."

Neither of those tasks would be served by existing Macs. Maestri also cited an example of iPads eating up office PCs, stating that "Eli Lilly has deployed over 20,000 iPads and 50 internal apps as part of a laptop replacement program that dramatically increased the productivity and capabilities of its employees."

Eli Lilly iPad app


Those three examples amount to only a fraction of a million iPads, but they represent an invasion by Apple into corporate and government markets that other tablet makers will have little hope to counter once iPads are established and those organizations standardize on custom iOS development.

Tablets are not smartphones



iPads are not like smartphones; they aren't tied to two year contracts, and in many corporate settings will be able to remain in functional use for much longer, with a replacement cycle closer to conventional PCs. They aren't "personal" in the sense of being tied to a single user's phone number, so companies and schools can buy fleets of iPads and assign and reassign them to employees or students as needed.

Further, iPads are fulfilling entirely new roles (from electronics flight bags to sales kiosks to merchandizing), not just replacing less capable, existing devices as iPhone did. iPads are therefore not going to see the same type of growth rates that iPhone did.

However, the simple fact that Apple sold over $7.5 billion worth of tablets in one of its historically slowest quarters within a "tablet market" where every other vendor has been completely unable to even approach Apple's tablet volumes at any price--even those like Amazon, Samsung, Google and Microsoft who are willing to lose millions of dollars just to buy fractional increases in market share--should embarrass the pants off of clickbait pundits and market researchers who continue to peddle a ridiculous story that Apple is in some sort of tablet trouble.
post #2 of 150
"Grocery Stores FEAR Him" LOL. That's Business Insider for ya.
Edited by Suddenly Newton - 5/4/14 at 3:31pm

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #3 of 150
And boom goes the dynamite. I think we should rename TNT to DED. Seriously, though, not only does Daniel provide cogent analysis, he backs it all up with data, coated in a delicious marinade of snark. Once again, a great article deconstructing the anti-Apple bias of the financial "press" and industry "analysts". Keep up the good work, Daniel.
post #4 of 150

Of course if they keep adding stuff into the category, the iPad sales gets diluted. But I agree that hybrid laptops could count has tablets.

post #5 of 150
Another excellent article. Keep up the brilliant work!

Samsung, Amazon, Asus, etc. must know how poorly their tablet businesses are doing despite the PR fluffing from these "research" firms. Yet they can't exit the business because they, like Tim Cook, also know that it will be larger than the PC business by the end of the decade. There must be plenty of wailing and gnashing of teeth as those companies try to figure out how to compete with the iPad.

There is no doubt that Apple hit a high point in unit sales on the 3rd year of iPad sales (April 2012-March 2013). They sold about 2 million fewer iPads in the 4th year. But I suspect this 5th year will see unit sales tick upwards again as education & enterprise begin to scale iPad deployment after lengthy testing phases.
post #6 of 150
So the tablet industry is collapsing based on figures that have pretty much been discredited? I don't believe anything IDC or anyone else like them reports. There is no way to verify the accuracy of their reporting and often times they will go back and restate prior reporting. Who would trust that dats?
post #7 of 150

When a product is shipped, does its manufacturer get paid by whoever they're shipping it to? If a company ships 50 million tablets, do they get the revenue when it's shipped, or only when the front-end shop sells the tablet?

post #8 of 150
What is IDC's motive for making Apple look bad?
post #9 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by DipDog3 View Post

What is IDC's motive for making Apple look bad?

 

Same as Strategy Analytics'

 

The curious case of IDC, Gartner & Strategy Analytics' PC, phone & tablet data on Apple

 

post #10 of 150

I've been looking for a good Android tablet, but they only one that seems any good is the Amazon Kindle Fire.

 

I'm on my second Asus MeMO that I have to return because it keeps freezing up.

 

Lenovos have problems after awhile, as well.

 

I was looking at the Dell one that runs Windows and comes with Office, but reviews bad as the full Office is not designed for 8" tablets. Not many apps out there that will run good on an 8" tablet running full Windows.

 

It would be nice to have a non-Apple product for once. Looks like the Kindle Fire is the way to go.

 

Didn't look at how good Samsung tablets are, because I won't buy Samsung.

post #11 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkLite View Post

When a product is shipped, does its manufacturer get paid by whoever they're shipping it to? If a company ships 50 million tablets, do they get the revenue when it's shipped, or only when the front-end shop sells the tablet?

Samsung receivable turnover = 8.12
Apple receivable turnover = 13.49

Explanation:
By maintaining accounts receivable, firms are indirectly extending interest-free loans to their clients. A high ratio implies either that a company operates on a cash basis or that its extension of credit and collection of accounts receivable is efficient.

A low ratio implies the company should re-assess its credit policies in order to ensure the timely collection of imparted credit that is not earning interest for the firm.

So I guess they get paid some but they wait till sold on the rest.
post #12 of 150

I agree with the OP.

 

Those research firms are all full of crap. They're merely guessing, pulling figures out of their buttholes, they're fudging the numbers to fit an agenda and their figures have been proven to be completely wrong multiple times in the past. Anybody can take various numbers and spin them, in an attempt to frame the story to their own liking. 

 

And as we see now, they also have no problems with completely rewriting their own rules, and re-defining exactly what a tablet is or is not. Those windows 8 monstrosities and stupid convertibles are not tablets. What a joke.

 

The iPad is doing incredibly well, and just wait until the new ones come out. Only a mentally disturbed individual or a very poor troll would even seriously suggest that any iPad business is "collapsing". The iPad has completely changed the game.

 

Reality trumps lies and made up numbers. Reality trumps paid Samsung lies, paid propaganda and fake astroturf campaigns.

 

My two eyes function perfectly well, and 99% of the time, I only see iPads being used wherever that I might go. This includes in various businesses, on airplane flights, on the subway, in a cafe, you name it. I don't see any Android tablets being used, but then again, I don't live in a mud hut, so your mileage might vary.

 

The only place that I remember seeing any windows devices was when I was watching a TV show called the Dome a while ago, and those were obviously paid product placements, because it made the whole show seem fake. A mysterious dome shaped force field floating over the town seemed far more realistic than the ridiculous suggestion that everybody in town was using various windows devices. Needless to say, I don't watch that show anymore.

 

Apple is going to sell a ton of iPads when the new models come out soon and I'll be one of those sales, because it's time for me to upgrade, and I definitely plan on getting a new iPad in some months from now, whenever they get released.

 

Anybody who believes in the numbers coming from any of those research firms is a moron. 


Edited by Apple ][ - 5/4/14 at 1:49pm
post #13 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by pfisher View Post
 

I've been looking for a good Android tablet, but they only one that seems any good is the Amazon Kindle Fire.

 

I'm on my second Asus MeMO that I have to return because it keeps freezing up.

 

Lenovos have problems after awhile, as well.

 

I was looking at the Dell one that runs Windows and comes with Office, but reviews bad as the full Office is not designed for 8" tablets. Not many apps out there that will run good on an 8" tablet running full Windows.

 

It would be nice to have a non-Apple product for once. Looks like the Kindle Fire is the way to go.

 

Didn't look at how good Samsung tablets are, because I won't buy Samsung.

What is the matter with you??

post #14 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by pfisher View Post
 

I've been looking for a good Android tablet, but they only one that seems any good is the Amazon Kindle Fire.

 

I'm on my second Asus MeMO that I have to return because it keeps freezing up.

 

Lenovos have problems after awhile, as well.

 

I was looking at the Dell one that runs Windows and comes with Office, but reviews bad as the full Office is not designed for 8" tablets. Not many apps out there that will run good on an 8" tablet running full Windows.

 

It would be nice to have a non-Apple product for once. Looks like the Kindle Fire is the way to go.

 

Didn't look at how good Samsung tablets are, because I won't buy Samsung.

nice troll bait.

"Building for the future?! They should be running around reacting to the present!" -John Moltz
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"Building for the future?! They should be running around reacting to the present!" -John Moltz
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post #15 of 150
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

In addition to carrying on its schtick of being perpetually bamboozled by the difference between product sales and "inventory shipments," IDC has also introduced an entirely new accounting trick in its "Worldwide Quarterly Tablet Tracker" figures.

Like last year's accounting innovation of dumping kid's tablets and toys into its total figures in order to minimize record sales of iPads and portray Apple's "share" of the "market" as diminishing, IDC is now categorizing Windows 8.1 "2-in-1" netbooks as part of its tablet figures.

 

Lying?  Check.

Cheating?  Check.

Stealing?  Making good progress, no doubt.

 

IDC is lying and cheating with the intent of stealing from their sucker clients.

How much longer can they get away with underhanded and dishonest tactics?

When is the class action suit going to hit?

Sent from my iPhone Simulator

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Sent from my iPhone Simulator

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post #16 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pfisher View Post
 

I've been looking for a good Android tablet, but they only one that seems any good is the Amazon Kindle Fire.

 

I'm on my second Asus MeMO that I have to return because it keeps freezing up.

 

Lenovos have problems after awhile, as well.

 

I was looking at the Dell one that runs Windows and comes with Office, but reviews bad as the full Office is not designed for 8" tablets. Not many apps out there that will run good on an 8" tablet running full Windows.

 

It would be nice to have a non-Apple product for once. Looks like the Kindle Fire is the way to go.

 

Didn't look at how good Samsung tablets are, because I won't buy Samsung.

What is the matter with you??

"Its would be nice to have non-Apple product for once" summarizes what is the matter with the poster. 

In other words,  "Anything but Apple" is the sole motivation. 

"Building for the future?! They should be running around reacting to the present!" -John Moltz
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"Building for the future?! They should be running around reacting to the present!" -John Moltz
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post #17 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by pfisher View Post

I've been looking for a good Android tablet, but they only one that seems any good is the Amazon Kindle Fire.

I'm on my second Asus MeMO that I have to return because it keeps freezing up.

Lenovos have problems after awhile, as well.

I was looking at the Dell one that runs Windows and comes with Office, but reviews bad as the full Office is not designed for 8" tablets. Not many apps out there that will run good on an 8" tablet running full Windows.

It would be nice to have a non-Apple product for once. Looks like the Kindle Fire is the way to go.

Didn't look at how good Samsung tablets are, because I won't buy Samsung.

I have been happy with my 2013 Nexus 7. Fast performance, nice high-res display and I have separate user account between family members.
post #18 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkLite View Post
 

When a product is shipped, does its manufacturer get paid by whoever they're shipping it to? If a company ships 50 million tablets, do they get the revenue when it's shipped, or only when the front-end shop sells the tablet?

It varies on a case by case basis but almost never is it either of those scenarios. Sometimes it is net 30 or 60 which might include provisions for returning stock with a penalty, although we've heard that Apple does not accept returns of unsold inventory. Other times it involves a variable price per unit ordered over a year like in the Sprint deal with iPhones. Another case is if they don't meet their unit volume agreement, the unit price increases like in the LA School District deal.

 

For a reseller, the return policies vary as well so depending how much inventory a reseller has when the payment date approaches, they can either return the unsold quantity with a restocking penalty or discount the selling price to move it, or even use it as an incentive offer on another product like what Best Buy has done. Usually selling it at cost or below cost is the best option like in the case of the HP fire sale on TouchPad. I has been suggested that Samsung reports sales as shipped units but accepts returns, where Apple supposedly counts activations in some cases such as launch weekend but counts sales as shipped units later because they don't accept returns anyway so they all make into end user's hands one way or another. In Apple's case everything that is shipped is sold for very close to full retail, where with Samsung stuff, it often gets BOGOed to move it.

 

As realcool stated it is on the books as accounts receivables or in other words a short term interest free loan.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #19 of 150

Can't fake the earnings reports or the internet usage reports for long.

post #20 of 150
if those other devices are continuing to gain traction while their sales remain flat then iPad is REALLY continuing to gain traction at 16 million quarter after quarter.

I'm really looking forward to my next iPad, but my current one still serves rather well, so it's replacement (someday) oughta be killer! Stoked, dudes!
post #21 of 150
Daniel always works on the assumption that Apple knows what it's doing. Ya think?
post #22 of 150
If running Office (or most Android apps for that matter) is a primary decider for you, why are you even looking at the Amazon Fire? Hardware wise that tablet may be the bomb, but there isn't much software and the version of Android Amazon uses is unrecognizable from the original and much more restricted.
post #23 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by pfisher View Post

I've been looking for a good Android tablet, but they only one that seems any good is the Amazon Kindle Fire.

Just give up and get an Apple iPad. Seriously.
post #24 of 150
Each of Dilger's paragraphs is an arrow in the heart of Mr. PC.

The iPad is Apple's not so secret weapon aimed at the heart of enterprise. No doubt the usual Apple-baiters (GG, Business Insider etc.) will point to Microsoft's everlasting 90% marketshare, blithely ignorant of the sea-change taking place. I liked also the observation of the tech press, who have a vested interest in there being lots of similar technology companies constantly producing lots of seemingly-novel, gimmicky products—the antithesis of Apple.

The PC market and analysts DED cites can be seen as a corpulent serpent, writhing in its death throes as the consequences of its gluttonous agony become apparent all too late.

I enjoyed your last paragraph with its sentence-length worthy of Jane Austen.
Edited by Benjamin Frost - 5/5/14 at 7:29pm
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post #25 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by pfisher View Post
 

I've been looking for a good Android tablet, but they only one that seems any good is the Amazon Kindle Fire.

 

I'm on my second Asus MeMO that I have to return because it keeps freezing up.

 

Lenovos have problems after awhile, as well.

 

I was looking at the Dell one that runs Windows and comes with Office, but reviews bad as the full Office is not designed for 8" tablets. Not many apps out there that will run good on an 8" tablet running full Windows.

 

It would be nice to have a non-Apple product for once. Looks like the Kindle Fire is the way to go.

 

Didn't look at how good Samsung tablets are, because I won't buy Samsung.

Good dog for avoiding Samsung!

Bad dog for considering Android!

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post #26 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Negafox View Post


I have been happy with my 2013 Nexus 7. Fast performance, nice high-res display and I have separate user account between family members.

I take it you share your phone between family too.

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post #27 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS11 View Post
 

That's the ASUS Transformer Book Trio (Android tablet and Windows PC inside the keyboard dock).

 

This is the ASUS T100:

 

6a57170e-2afc-4164-9455-41775099422a.jpg 

What do you want for posting pretty pictures? A medal?

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post #28 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danox View Post
 

Can't fake the earnings reports or the internet usage reports for long.

I wouldn't be so sure about the earnings report in Samsung or Google's case, as we now know that they are habitual thieves and liars. Happily, there are some independent internet usage reports which tell the truth.

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post #29 of 150
Not that i want to disagree with the Cook, but the two major reasons are not the ones he quotes. They are greed and incompetence, with a layer of spin doctoring datanalystry.

Now, why does he even have to adress Gartner and IDC? Can't he just dismiss them as the incompetent crooks they are?

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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post #30 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightknight View Post

Not that i want to disagree with the Cook, but the two major reasons are not the ones he quotes. They are greed and incompetence, with a layer of spin doctoring datanalystry.

Now, why does he even have to adress Gartner and IDC? Can't he just dismiss them as the incompetent crooks they are?

Dismissal is a dangerous thing to do. It's an option, but in this case I think it's better to dismantle the enemy.

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post #31 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by pfisher View Post
 

I've been looking for a good Android tablet, but they only one that seems any good is the Amazon Kindle Fire.

 

I'm on my second Asus MeMO that I have to return because it keeps freezing up.

 

Lenovos have problems after awhile, as well.

 

I was looking at the Dell one that runs Windows and comes with Office, but reviews bad as the full Office is not designed for 8" tablets. Not many apps out there that will run good on an 8" tablet running full Windows.

 

It would be nice to have a non-Apple product for once. Looks like the Kindle Fire is the way to go.

 

Didn't look at how good Samsung tablets are, because I won't buy Samsung.


Your struggle with finding a non-Apple alternative is exactly why I don't bother with one.  At what point do you stop to think of how much the value of your own time is wasted in dealing with such inferior products?  You could be just "using" a well-designed and well though-out product, yet you seem to keep going back and not only wasting your money, but your time in finding something that will only fail you again.

To say "It would be nice to have a non-Apple product for once" doesn't resonate with me.  Nice for what?  My Apple products work.  I don't have to deal with figuring them out, or failing way before their time.  I can use them, then walk away to do other stuff (like have a life) instead of going here-and-there to return/buy/repair stuff.  Am I missing something?

Kudos to you for skipping Samsung.  I personally think their end-products are complete garbage, and their business ethics are embarrassing to say the least.  I too will not buy anything directly from them.  It sucks that Apple has to be in bed with Samsung to get components from them, but at least Apple has them on a very short leash.

post #32 of 150
$7000 for the "information" in that IDC report! Just imagine how much they could charge if it wasn't blatant misinformation.

As for IDC's (and others') motives, I can think of several theories, ranked loosely in the order I find likely.

- Some people (including some journalists?) may buy the report because it supports what THEY want to believe/say, creating a market for selling bad info. IDC is just providing the product that is in demand (while pretending it's something else). I wouldn't think this would be a large number of buyers, but who knows.

- There may be a money trail from Apple's competitors to IDC. (May sound unlikely, but similar things have happened before.)

- IDC has people whose brains are just as flawed as anyone else's--and they have deep-rooted prejudgements against Apple and Apple success. You see this all the time in "journalism" and politics, so maybe you see it here too. They are claiming to be scientific and factual, but in reality are letting emotion guide their narrative and are somehow justifying to themselves the factual changes (a.k.a. lies) necessary to do so.

- They are working to cover for past mistakes, and are propping them up rather than admitting them. Maybe this decision is good for their reputation, since people don't seem to pay attention? Or maybe they are shooting themselves in the foot. But it's easy to dance around and contradict yourself and just claim that "market forces" and "technologies" are changing fast and you're nimbly adjusting your numbers accordingly.

- Stock manipulation (legal or not; shady either way).
post #33 of 150
The last paragraph sums it up.

The upgrade cycle on iPads is so much longer than that of an iPhone. Where iPhones will be replaced every 1.5 years, iPads, especially with the power they pack today, can be used for 3-5 years. I have an iPad Air128gb that I'll probably have for the next couple years. I had an iPad 2 that I loved, but upgraded for the Retina screen. I think many folks are in the same boat. They are content with using their iPads for a few years.

With more and more iPhone users and the installed base Apple will continue to grow iPad sales at 10% plus for the next couple years. Touch ID and a larger iPad will help.

I thought Amazon sold more than a thousand Fires a day. That's a pathetic number, for practically giving their hardware away. How much longer can this last? That is, companies selling tablets at a loss or minimal gain (everyone but a Apple). We've already seen Amazon report bad numbers. At what point will prices go up?
post #34 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

I take it you share your phone between family too.

They are welcome to borrow my phone at home, but otherwise seperate devices. Otherwise, it would be a tad difficult to call my family when traveling internationally for work purposes, or attending conventions.
post #35 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Negafox View Post

They are welcome to borrow my phone at home, but otherwise seperate devices. Otherwise, it would be a tad difficult to call my family when traveling internationally for work purposes, or attending conventions.

Why not use the iPad for FaceTiming your family when you're away working? Oh, I forgot—your iPad is at home being shared.
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post #36 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

Why not use the iPad for FaceTiming your family when you're away working? Oh, I forgot—your iPad is at home being shared.

I use FaceTime (or an equivelent) occasionally when on WiFi.
post #37 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Negafox View Post

I have been happy with my 2013 Nexus 7. Fast performance, nice high-res display and I have separate user account between family members.

 

Nowadays, no Internet search engine company can be taken seriously unless they are also making a tablet.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pfisher View Post
 

I've been looking for a good Android tablet, but they only one that seems any good is the Amazon Kindle Fire.

 

Nowadays, no book retailer can be taken seriously unless they are also making a tablet.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pfisher View Post
 

I'm on my second Asus MeMO that I have to return because it keeps freezing up.

 

Lenovos have problems after awhile, as well.

 

I was looking at the Dell one that runs Windows and comes with Office, but reviews bad as the full Office is not designed for 8" tablets. Not many apps out there that will run good on an 8" tablet running full Windows.

 

Nowadays, no PC clone maker can be taken seriously unless they are also making a tablet.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pfisher View Post
 

Didn't look at how good Samsung tablets are, because I won't buy Samsung.

 

Nowadays, no kitchen appliance and TV manufacturer can be taken seriously unless they are also making a tablet.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #38 of 150
I think there may be a little market saturation and even more market satisfaction going on in wealthier markets, and the iPad's probably too expensive for developing markets. People are always going to buy a phone before they buy a tablet, and if they can't afford an iPhone they're hardly going to buy an iPad.

I myself (living in a wealthier market) have an iPad 2. Eventually it's probably going to break and force me to buy a new one, but for now I just don't see any reason to shell out for an upgrade when my tablet does everything I want it to do just fine. Apple made it too well!
post #39 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Nowadays, no Internet search engine company can be taken seriously unless they are also making a tablet.


Nowadays, no book retailer can be taken seriously unless they are also making a tablet.


Nowadays, no PC clone maker can be taken seriously unless they are also making a tablet.


Nowadays, no kitchen appliance and TV manufacturer can be taken seriously unless they are also making a tablet.

So. Good.
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post #40 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS11 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

 
What do you want for posting pretty pictures? A medal?
I want Daniel to correct his mistake.



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"He who laughs, lasts!" - Mary Pettibone Poole -
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"He who laughs, lasts!" - Mary Pettibone Poole -
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