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Before Apple's iPhone was too small, it was too "monstrously" big - Page 4

post #121 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post
 

 

That would be my thought but you did make a very impressionable comment to another poster when he said that we'll know the 5C didn't sell well if it drops from the line-up entirely.

 

Your reply was basically to ask if the 5 didn't sell well.

 

Not the same thing entirely, nor am I making light of your position. Just saying that there is a lot to consider.

 

I'd like to see a larger screen flagship with the 5S and 5C dropping down a tier. Personally, I think that's the line-up that Apple has had in my mind for a while now (not that particular line-up, but rather, the numbers a line-up like that could produce).

 

I have to question whether or not keeping the 5 would have killed some 5S sales. This time around though, Apple will have size to differentiate 1st and 2nd tier... or, at least I think so.

 

The 5C is compatible with China's TD-LTE network, the 5 wasn't, maybe the C stands for China.

 

Worldwide sales of the 5C beat Android flagship sales hands down, just look at who made money.

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post #122 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post
 

 

Except that chart isn't the source for that statement. The chart is specifically sales on the top 4 US carriers, which as you know are highly subsidized and don't necessarily reflect the sales outside the U.S. They are also heavily promoted by Samsung, which has BOGO deals with many of those specific carriers.

 

Your first paragraph says it all.

 

For the rest of your diatribe to be correct it would mean that iP 5S sales must also be wrong.

 

It would mean that the majority of iPhones are not sold in the United States.

 

It would mean that iP 5C sales in the rest of the world are more equal to iP 5S sales. That the iP 5S wasn't selling as well in the rest of the world as is first believed. That Tim Cook was wrong when he said that Apple is selling more iP 5S phones than Apple's initial belief.

 

Logic tells me that if half the production of iPhones is sold in the US (or even 45% for that matter) and the iP 5C is slowly dropping off the map in the US (Canaccord charts); then can it be doing so much better in the rest of the world as to compensate for those lack of sales in the US, to actually propel it above the SG S4 that replaces it in November in the #2 spot in the US; that sales of the 5C are so rapid in the rest of the world that they must easily be selling close to the iP 5S in places like China and Europe, even though we have seen European sales charts showing that the 5C is not selling so well in many countries other than Great Britain. Where are these mystery iP 5C sales being made?

 

Yes, we all know how much you like Ben Bajarin. Isn't he the guy that gave you your inspiration for "Flawgic". In the end, though, he's just another analyst. Apple will no more let him look at the sales number than they will Gene Munster. In the end you are asking all of us to believe one analyst over another. Why? Because it fits your scenario?

 

Come on, Daniel. YOu have to do better than that.

 

Logic alone tells me you are way off base.

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post #123 of 146
Read what John Dvorak suggests concerning Apple.
Then do the exact opposite.
You will be happier, more productive and richer.
post #124 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty321 View Post
 

Am I the only person on the planet who DOESN'T WANT A FREAKING LARGER IPHONE?!?! I don't have INSPECTOR GADGET THUMBS. I want to use my phone ONE HANDED, and my thumb already can't reach the far corners of the iPhone 5S. The iPhone 5S is already slightly larger than the perfect size for me, AND it easily fits in my pocket. I don't want to the iPhone to become one of those stupidly & enormously large phablets -- you can't use them one-handed, they don't fit in your pocket, they are absolutely HORRENDOUS. Keep the iPhone freaking small!

 

No, you're not. Has anyone tried to point a gun at a suspect while trying to operate their phone with the other hand? It helps to be able to operate it one-handed and not have to point the gun away to use it (this includes not just calling, but using the camera and other functions as well). Apple researched what was the best form factor for a mobile device, and even marketed the fact that with the bigger iPhone 5 (remember the thumb movement animation?), you could still use it one handed and still fit it in a pocket (even if barely on both counts). It would be a shame if the newer one was unusable one-handed. I'm sure they'll think of something, though (they always have).

 

As to those clamoring for two-handed use, or who suffer hulk hands or Samsung Phablet-envy, there's the ever more useful iPad, its mini form factor being highly portable, yet big enough to rub in your Phablet toting friends' faces (apart from, like the iPhone as well, being absolutely superior in every single possible way to anything Android). The only thing missing is actual phone functionality, which perhaps Apple should add once and for all (and to the bigger iPad as well). It already has cellular service that can use the same service as one's cell phone, so it's not even much of a stretch. Considering the iPhone is so much more than a phone, it wouldn't necessarily be bad or difficult to add phone functionality to the tablets as well. :)

 

As the phone functionality becomes secondary to the device's other functions (camera, internet, software) and other communications options (messaging, chats, data sharing, software, e-mail, web), perhaps we should stop calling them phones and rethink the name and purpose. I guess size becomes a moot point at that point, but some still clamor for the practicality of a one-handed use device either way (although an Airplay enabled gun with a screen might be an alternative ;) hehe).

 

Just pondering...

post #125 of 146
Originally Posted by Numenorean View Post

Has anyone tried to point a gun at a suspect while trying to operate their phone with the other hand?

 

This sentence worried me for a bit, but then I thought, “Hey, that works out. Cop has the guy cornered, takes a picture, facial recognition runs it through a database, he sees it’s not actually the serial child rapist he’s looking for, and he apologizes to the kindergarten teacher while the kids come out from under the desks.”

 

You’re right; it’s important to have one-handed operation in every single situation.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #126 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

This sentence worried me for a bit, but then I thought, “Hey, that works out. Cop has the guy cornered, takes a picture, facial recognition runs it through a database, he sees it’s not actually the serial child rapist he’s looking for, and he apologizes to the kindergarten teacher while the kids come out from under the desks.”

 

This happened to you as a child, didn't it.  ​8-)
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post #127 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


You wrote, "The [Galaxy] S5 currently has the best display in a mobile phone." and then used one questionably objective result from one person that doesn't even test the iPhone 5S despite the 2011 iPhone being listed as the best overall display that Dr. Soneria has tested up until that point.


PS: People, stop writing S5 and 5S without also writing Galaxy and iPhone before it, respectively.

 

Yes, I wrote that because it was written by the man who tests a lot of displays but who has apparently neglected to test the iPhone 5S.  Perhaps he assumed that the same display was used in both the 5 and the 5S.

post #128 of 146

My iPhone 5s ran out of charge the other night, so I dusted off the old iPod touch (2g) that I still keep docked on my clock radio. Having used the 5s since last September, going back to the 3.5" screen made me realize one thing -- for one-handed operation, Jobs and the original iPhone team got it right. For normal operations and gestures, the screen size felt right.

 

As I've indicated before, the iPhone 5s already pushes the limits of easy pocketability and one-handed operation. I've already dropped my phone a few times while pulling it out of my pant pocket -- something that never happened when I carried the iPod touch. An even larger phone certainly would not help matters.

 

Personally, I want Apple to continue making their flagship phone available in the smaller form factor. Right now, Apple is the only manufacturer that still makes a top-of-the-line phone in the 4" size. While the larger screen size is nice to look at, the times I've tried using the larger Android phones, they feel awkward and clumsy. Samsung even acknowledges the issue with one-handed operation by including that bizarre "one handed mode" that truncates the screen edges.

 

For people arguing that more people prefer the larger screen sizes, I would counter that the market does not have a true apples-to-apples comparison available to support that argument. Apple does not make a large-screened flagship model, and Android brands do not make small-screened flagship models. What's the basis for drawing conclusions based on screen size alone?

 

We know that on the Android side, the best selling individual models are the jumbo sized flagship models. But, is that BECAUSE of the larger screen, or because the flagship models with the higher performance and better features are ONLY available with the larger screen? If a smaller screen was such a liability, then why does the iPhone continue to grow sales and dominate among the most desirable customers? Do iPhone buyers purchase the phone despite the small screen size, or do they view the smaller form factor as an attribute?

 

Even when Apple goes to the rumored 4.7" iPhone 6, this won't do anything to answer the screen size question if they deprecate the 4" screen size to the 5c/s series, since the phones will potentially include numerous other refinements like Liquidmetal shells, sapphire glass, and the normal litany of performance boosts. If Apple simultaneously includes these improvements with a smaller non-gimped 4" flagship model, then we will finally have a true test case to see how many people opt for the larger screen size when offered a real choice.

post #129 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post
 

It would mean that the majority of iPhones are not sold in the United States.

 

 

Since about 2010, 60%+ of iPhones are sold outside the US.

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post #130 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Go go gadget double jointedness!




I’ll say again, though. I’m sort of warming to 4.7”.

Aaaaaaagh! Day of the Thumb-Triffids!

I'm, too, warming to 4.67”.
“I wasted time, and now doth time waste me.”
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post #131 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

That wouldn't even hold correct according to the Canaccord chart he provided.

The 5C went to 3rd place in October and November and was outsold by the S4.

What none of you are appreciating is that there are no sales figures for these months, just chart positions. And seeing that 5c sales were likely to be biggest in its first month, like every iPhone before it, it is reasonable to assume that it outsold every Android flagship phone for the winter quarter.
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post #132 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

The number of times I've tried to lock my iPad with my finger is embarrassing. 1embarassed.gif

When I leave my house, I'm always sticking my finger in the keyhole before realising I need a key to lock it.

My unnecessary sarcasm aside, I think you meant unlock.
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post #133 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Numenorean View Post

No, you're not. Has anyone tried to point a gun at a suspect while trying to operate their phone with the other hand? It helps to be able to operate it one-handed and not have to point the gun away to use it (this includes not just calling, but using the camera and other functions as well). Apple researched what was the best form factor for a mobile device, and even marketed the fact that with the bigger iPhone 5 (remember the thumb movement animation?), you could still use it one handed and still fit it in a pocket (even if barely on both counts). It would be a shame if the newer one was unusable one-handed. I'm sure they'll think of something, though (they always have).

As to those clamoring for two-handed use, or who suffer hulk hands or Samsung Phablet-envy, there's the ever more useful iPad, its mini form factor being highly portable, yet big enough to rub in your Phablet toting friends' faces (apart from, like the iPhone as well, being absolutely superior in every single possible way to anything Android). The only thing missing is actual phone functionality, which perhaps Apple should add once and for all (and to the bigger iPad as well). It already has cellular service that can use the same service as one's cell phone, so it's not even much of a stretch. Considering the iPhone is so much more than a phone, it wouldn't necessarily be bad or difficult to add phone functionality to the tablets as well. 1smile.gif

As the phone functionality becomes secondary to the device's other functions (camera, internet, software) and other communications options (messaging, chats, data sharing, software, e-mail, web), perhaps we should stop calling them phones and rethink the name and purpose. I guess size becomes a moot point at that point, but some still clamor for the practicality of a one-handed use device either way (although an Airplay enabled gun with a screen might be an alternative 1wink.gif hehe).

Just pondering...

Nice post.

Name change, eh? Presumably Samsung's next model will be called the iClone.
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post #134 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil


This sentence worried me for a bit, but then I thought, “Hey, that works out. Cop has the guy cornered, takes a picture, facial recognition runs it through a database, he sees it’s not actually the serial child rapist he’s looking for, and he apologizes to the kindergarten teacher while the kids come out from under the desks.”

This happened to you as a child, didn't it. ​

Did it? Or are you projecting?
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post #135 of 146
Interesting read...
post #136 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post


Nice post.

Name change, eh? Presumably Samsung's next model will be called the iClone.

Thanks. :)

 

iClone or perhaps iWish as in iWish this was an iPhone. ;) hehe.

post #137 of 146
Of course, Apple pioneered , and still sells the biggest smartphone - it's called the iPad. For those who may have forgotten, when the iPad was first launched it was lampooned in the Press, and by other tech companies as "just a big iPhone". Then, competitors phone's started to get bigger, almost the size of the iPad Mini. So big phones are nothing new for Apple, they were first to market. That said, personally I'll stick with the smaller form factor of the iphone5.
post #138 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by leighr View Post

Of course, Apple pioneered , and still sells the biggest smartphone - it's called the iPad. For those who may have forgotten, when the iPad was first launched it was lampooned in the Press, and by other tech companies as "just a big iPhone". Then, competitors phone's started to get bigger, almost the size of the iPad Mini. So big phones are nothing new for Apple, they were first to market. That said, personally I'll stick with the smaller form factor of the iphone5.

I don't ever remember anyone ever calling the iPad a "big iPhone", however I do remember it being called a "big iPod". HTC released the HD2 whose screen size was 4.3" phone in 2009, several months before the iPad was introduced.
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post #139 of 146
Samsung actually made the Galaxy Mini because of complaints their flagship phone was too big:

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-05-28/the-samsung-galaxy-s4-mini-is-coming-and-quickly

"in certain corners of the world—and demographic segments—there was resistance. “Our research showed that some customers, particularly some female customers, found the size of the phone to be too large,” says Samsung Mobile marketing chief D.J. Lee."

Is it better to have 3 beds, one for each bear or just the one that suits goldilocks?

Customers asked for bigger screens so Samsung delivered, customers then asked for smaller screens so Samsung delivered. The difference with Apple is they didn't ask what size to make the original phone. Due to the size of the market now, there are going to be people pulling in both directions due to the variation in hand sizes. However, Samsung's dual model setup doesn't look good because they don't treat both devices equally.
post #140 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Customers asked for bigger screens so Samsung delivered

I agreed with everything except this. I don't think that customers asked for a bigger screen. Samsung wasn't very popular before the SGS 3, and a great many of the people that bought it came from another manufacturer. People wanted a phone that had more style than the offerings of Moto, and HTC.
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post #141 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Customers asked for bigger screens so Samsung delivered

I agreed with everything except this. I don't think that customers asked for a bigger screen. Samsung wasn't very popular before the SGS 3, and a great many of the people that bought it came from another manufacturer. People wanted a phone that had more style than the offerings of Moto, and HTC.

Comment at the bottom

http://techcrunch.com/2012/05/16/its-time-for-a-larger-iphone/

"I had the chance to go to a seminar here in Seoul at the Samsung headquarters where the lady presenting the strategy behind the Galaxy Note told us:
Ok we asked customers, what's wrong with the ipad? they said "it's too big!"
And the iPhone? "it's too small"! customers said.
SO... because we are so smart we made something in between...and the Galaxy note was born."

The Galaxy S2 ripped off the iPhone 4 design. The Note came before the S3 and they designed the S3 around the Note.
post #142 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


I agreed with everything except this. I don't think that customers asked for a bigger screen. Samsung wasn't very popular before the SGS 3, and a great many of the people that bought it came from another manufacturer. People wanted a phone that had more style than the offerings of Moto, and HTC.

 

Samsung, not popular?

 

They were the number one handset vendor in the US long before the S3 launched, before the Galaxy S even launched and number two handset vendor worldwide before they took the crown from Nokia in 2012.

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post #143 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Samsung, not popular?

They were the number one handset vendor in the US long before the S3 launched, before the Galaxy S even launched and number two handset vendor worldwide before they took the crown from Nokia in 2012.

Not as a flagship Android device manufacturer. The SGS 2 was not a singular model in the US, each carrier had their own distinct model. Before the SGS 3 the most commonly owned high end Android device was made by Motorola, or HTC.
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post #144 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Comment at the bottom

http://techcrunch.com/2012/05/16/its-time-for-a-larger-iphone/

"I had the chance to go to a seminar here in Seoul at the Samsung headquarters where the lady presenting the strategy behind the Galaxy Note told us:
Ok we asked customers, what's wrong with the ipad? they said "it's too big!"
And the iPhone? "it's too small"! customers said.
SO... because we are so smart we made something in between...and the Galaxy note was born."

The Galaxy S2 ripped off the iPhone 4 design. The Note came before the S3 and they designed the S3 around the Note.


This is from the first article you linked.
Quote:
When the Galaxy S3 came out in May of 2012, it wasn’t clear that the phone’s considerably larger display would be a hit

And this is also from Samsung's research.
Quote:
Our research showed that some customers, particularly some female customers, found the size of the phone to be too large

Their research findings are contradictory.
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"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #145 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Comment at the bottom

http://techcrunch.com/2012/05/16/its-time-for-a-larger-iphone/

"I had the chance to go to a seminar here in Seoul at the Samsung headquarters where the lady presenting the strategy behind the Galaxy Note told us:
Ok we asked customers, what's wrong with the ipad? they said "it's too big!"
And the iPhone? "it's too small"! customers said.
SO... because we are so smart we made something in between...and the Galaxy note was born."

The Galaxy S2 ripped off the iPhone 4 design. The Note came before the S3 and they designed the S3 around the Note.

This is from the first article you linked.
Quote:
When the Galaxy S3 came out in May of 2012, it wasn’t clear that the phone’s considerably larger display would be a hit

And this is also from Samsung's research.
Quote:
Our research showed that some customers, particularly some female customers, found the size of the phone to be too large

Their research findings are contradictory.

The second research was after the S3, the first was before it. Customers don't know what they don't want until they see it. They didn't make the S3 Mini until a while after the S3 shipped.

Around the time of the S2, likely before it, they asked customers what they wanted and they said smaller than an iPad bigger than an iPhone so they made the Note so as not to risk their flagship smartphone business. They must have had a positive reception for the Note and then designed the S3 around the Note. When the S3 shipped in May 2012, they again asked customers what they thought and women said nope it's too big. They managed to design and ship the S3 Mini by November 2012, which is highlighted in the earlier article as being something very few companies could do in such a short timeframe.
post #146 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

I don't ever remember anyone ever calling the iPad a "big iPhone", however I do remember it being called a "big iPod". HTC released the HD2 whose screen size was 4.3" phone in 2009, several months before the iPad was introduced.

Here's just a couple of examples of the "it's just a big iPhone, nothing revolutionary" talk that was going on at the time of iPad1 launch:

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/apple-ipad-yawn-2010-1
http://wehatemacs.com/en/index.php?id=3&sub=1

I guess they must feel pretty stupid now though - much like the people who said that iPhone 5s won't sell, iPhone 5c won't sell, etc. etc. Of course, Steve Ballmer is now their king!
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