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Apple now No. 2 online retailer behind Amazon, report says

post #1 of 51
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While Amazon is far and away the world's largest online sales entity, Apple has been growing over the past three years and is now sitting in second place after unseating office supply company Staples.



According to data from e-commerce research firm Internet Retailer, as reported by The Wall Street Journal, Apple quickly gained ground on competitors over 2013 and took the second place spot with $18.3 billion in total online sales.

With the uptick representing a 24 percent boost to sales compared to the year prior, Apple's growth over 2013 outstripped that of market leader Amazon, which managed to grow sales by 20 percent over the same period. Of course, Amazon's growth is relative considering the company raked in $67.8 billion over 2013, more than its ten closest competitors combined.

As noted by the publication, a portion of Apple's spike is thanks to Internet Retailer's inclusion of hardware sales data in its report. Previously, the research firm only tallied digital sales from iTunes' Music and App Stores, quizzically disregarding the Online Apple Store.

Other retailers also performed well last year keeping with a general upward trend in online sales over the past few years. Big-box retail chain Wal-Mart, known for its brick-and-mortar stores, showed the strongest gains in 2013, jumping 30 percent from the year prior to pick up just over $10 billion in sales.

Longtime No. 2 Staples, which was usurped by Apple, fell to third place on largely flat sales of $10.4 billion, a 1 percent increase year-over-year. Rounding out the top five was Sears, which brought in$4.9 billion in 2013.

post #2 of 51
The main difference being that Apple actually makes a profit... a huge, gigantic, monstrous profit.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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GOA

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post #3 of 51
And mostly one brand
post #4 of 51

Apple sells 25% of Amazon's total online sales, with just Apple products?

 

Holy moley.  

 

But what about all the Apple hardware that Amazon sells?  Is that hardware included only in Amazon's sales figures?  Just curious.

post #5 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by 512ke View Post

Apple sells 25% of Amazon's total online sales, with just Apple products?

Holy moley.  

But what about all the Apple hardware that Amazon sells?  Is that hardware included only in Amazon's sales figures?  Just curious.

It's not just hardware; iTunes, and app store purchases are included.
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post #6 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


It's not just hardware; iTunes, and app store purchases are included.

Ah thanks.  Should have read the article more carefully.

 

That makes more sense.  It's still an amazing number.

post #7 of 51
DOJ: Apple is getting close. Time for an investigation.
post #8 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

While Amazon is far and away the world's largest online sales entity, 

Okay let me rephrase that. This report might be slightly bogus. eBay with sales of $14 B is not even shown on the chart and neither is Alibaba which handled 1.1 trillion yuan ($170 billion) in sales, more than competitors eBay and Amazon.com combined.

 

Something is not right with these figures.


Edited by mstone - 5/6/14 at 8:41pm

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post #9 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by 512ke View Post
 

Apple sells 25% of Amazon's total online sales, with just Apple products?

 

Holy moley.  

 

But what about all the Apple hardware that Amazon sells?  Is that hardware included only in Amazon's sales figures?  Just curious.

I think you might be reading it wrong.

 

Apple has their own on-line system and they are looking at what Apple sells on Apple's on-line store vs. everything that is sold through Amazon's on-line store.

 

Apple products are sold through Amazon, but a lot of those products are from inventories of resellers of new and used product.  I've seen Apple sell through Amazon and not rung through Apple's on-line Store, I think that inventory is different.  It would make no sense for Apple to sell their products through the Apple Store and then through Amazon's store, because Amazon would have to mark it up so it would be sold at higher than retail, so I think what it sounds like is that Apple set up Amazon as an on-line reseller where Apple sends Amazon product that is kept in Amazon's warehouses and is shipped from their own warehouses.  These days anything is possible, but I think whatever is being listed through Apple Store is completely separate from what's being sold through Amazon in the chart.

post #10 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by 512ke View Post

Ah thanks.  Should have read the article more carefully.

That makes more sense.  It's still an amazing number.

Agreed, amazing number it is.
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post #11 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by 512ke View Post

Apple sells 25% of Amazon's total online sales, with just Apple products?

Holy moley.  

But what about all the Apple hardware that Amazon sells?  Is that hardware included only in Amazon's sales figures?  Just curious.

It's not just hardware; iTunes, and app store purchases are included.

Yes, but all the software and services amounts to one-seventh or less, I am guessing.

Apple is fundamentally a hardware company revenue-wise.
post #12 of 51
So much for the recent comments by Fred Wilson who stated Apple doesn't have any cloud presence to speak of. 1hmm.gif

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post #13 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

The main difference being that Apple actually makes a profit... a huge, gigantic, monstrous profit.

Yeah, number 2 is meaningless when you're winning.
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post #14 of 51
Staples was the second-largest worldwide?

THAT is the surprise for me!

Maybe Samsung is right and pens really ARE where it's at...
post #15 of 51
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


Yes, but all the software and services amounts to one-seventh or less, I am guessing.

Apple is fundamentally a hardware company revenue-wise.

 

Apple's iTunes + App Store + iCloud revenue was $23.5 billion last year, with 34% y/y growth.

If that were an independent company, it would be # 130 in the Fortune 500 ranking.

All content and services revenue.  No hardware revenue.

Just FYI.

 

http://www.asymco.com/2014/02/10/fortune-130/

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post #16 of 51
So apple equal 2007 Amazon. That's good stuff.
post #17 of 51
Still, with the exception of the AppStore, Amazon sells everything Apple sells, plus EVERYTHING THAT IS FOR SELL BY ANYBODY. Somehow this just doesn't add up.
post #18 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Yeah, number 2 is meaningless when you're winning.

'Winning' is meaningless when there's no end game.
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post #19 of 51
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Originally Posted by Shogun View Post

So apple equal 2007 Amazon. That's good stuff.

...and Steve Ballmer laughed at Apple when they revealed the iPhone and said, "I'd like to see how that turns out."

Well Fester, now you can see... and by the way, where is the Microsoft store on this chart? Those Windows 8.1 sales must be chart busting their way out the bottom of the chart.
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post #20 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Yes, but all the software and services amounts to one-seventh or less, I am guessing.


Apple is fundamentally a hardware company revenue-wise.

Apple's iTunes + App Store + iCloud revenue was $23.5 billion last year, with 34% y/y growth.
If that were an independent company, it would be # 130 in the Fortune 500 ranking.
All content and services revenue.  No hardware revenue.
Just FYI.

http://www.asymco.com/2014/02/10/fortune-130/

Apple had aggregate revenues of ~$175 billion in the last four quarters. iTunes + App Store + etc revenue is <15% of that, as I said.

I honestly don't want to come through as sounding rude, but I am not getting your point.
post #21 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

Staples was the second-largest worldwide?

THAT is the surprise for me!

Maybe Samsung is right and pens really ARE where it's at...

it seems to me that Staples does a lot of clearance on HW.  I get junk mail from them and its always seems to have highly discounted PC's and tablets.  Must more so than Best Buy.

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post #22 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Yes, but all the software and services amounts to one-seventh or less, I am guessing.


Apple is fundamentally a hardware company revenue-wise.

Apple's iTunes + App Store + iCloud revenue was $23.5 billion last year, with 34% y/y growth.
If that were an independent company, it would be # 130 in the Fortune 500 ranking.
All content and services revenue.  No hardware revenue.
Just FYI.

http://www.asymco.com/2014/02/10/fortune-130/

Apple had aggregate revenues of ~$175 billion in the last four quarters. iTunes + App Store + etc revenue is <15% of that, as I said.

I honestly don't want to come through as sounding rude, but I am not getting your point.

gents, I think you are  both in violent agreement? no? 

15% of 175B = ~26B

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post #23 of 51
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Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Yeah, number 2 is meaningless when you're winning.

'Winning' is meaningless when there's no end game.

end game is meaningless if you never get there.

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post #24 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cletus View Post

Still, with the exception of the AppStore, Amazon sells everything Apple sells, plus EVERYTHING THAT IS FOR SELL BY ANYBODY. Somehow this just doesn't add up.

OTOH, Apple has a retail branch.   Why wait 2 days an Amazon Prime when you can pick up a $2000 MBPrd while your S.O. is shopping at the Mall, and be tethered to your iPhone by the time your in the food court.

 

Being 2nd in online sales isn't bad when your 1st in revenue per retail square foot...

 

Apple is diversified in a couple different dimensions....

Retail

Online

Direct Sales (education, corporate)

post #25 of 51
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


Apple had aggregate revenues of ~$175 billion in the last four quarters. iTunes + App Store + etc revenue is <15% of that, as I said.

I honestly don't want to come through as sounding rude, but I am not getting your point.

 

I'm perfectly OK with that.

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post #26 of 51
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Originally Posted by mstone View Post
 

Okay let me rephrase that. This report might be slightly bogus. eBay with sales of $14 B is not even shown on the chart and neither is Alibaba which handled 1.1 trillion yuan ($170 billion) in sales, more than competitors eBay and Amazon.com combined.

 

Something is not right with these figures.


The difference is neither eBay nor Alibaba owns most of the inventory that is sold on their sites. In fact, Alibaba only had net income of $3.56 billion on revenue of $7.95 billion in 2013 - http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/05/06/alibaba-files-to-go-public-in-the-u-s/?_php=true&_type=blogs&partner=rss&emc=rss&_r=0

post #27 of 51

If iTunes Store had $23.5 billion in online commerce last year all by itself, so how could THAT number + Online hardware sales only amount to 18 something billion?

 

Anyway as comparisons to AMZN retail and AAPL retail go, you need to add Apple's retail stores.  Those guys did more than $18 billion all by themselves last year. So that's $41 billion (plus whatever the Apple Online Store pulled in) for Apple retail as a whole which is 60% of AMZN over the same period.

post #28 of 51
@mstone I guess this report only investigates retailers from the United States.
post #29 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post

end game is meaningless if you never get there.

There's nowhere to get to.
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post #30 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
 

Okay let me rephrase that. This report might be slightly bogus. eBay with sales of $14 B is not even shown on the chart and neither is Alibaba which handled 1.1 trillion yuan ($170 billion) in sales, more than competitors eBay and Amazon.com combined.

 

Something is not right with these figures.

Not to disagree, I think they are looking at B2C transaction not B2B which is Alibaba and C2C which is Ebay. Neither of which is really considered a retailer in the pure sense. I know that Alibaba does does since B2C but the lion share of their busy in connecting Manufacturers with retailers or Wholesalers who eventually sell to the end consumer and Ebay only makes money on the transaction between a Business or Consumer to Consumer. They do not sell and market products themselves.

 

Also, not sure where you got the $170B for Alibaba, I just saw the IPO information for them and they claim to have $5.55B in revenue for 2013. Yahoo own 22% of the company so they are going to make it big if this company really pops. Also most of that Rev actually came from the Paypal portion of the company, which the CEO just pulled out of Alibaba into another company which he owns. That is probably the reason they do not show in the list.


Edited by Maestro64 - 5/8/14 at 2:10pm
post #31 of 51
My wife says I am personally responsible for a lot of that Amazon graph. Be right back, FedEx are at the door ....
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post #32 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

My wife says I am personally responsible for a lot of that Amazon graph. Be right back, FedEx are at the door ....

we did our part too, we are doing some remodeling, and I could get most of the things we need off Amazon cheaper than Home Depot and Lowes, especially with Amazon Prime and I did not have to waste gas driving to the local Home Depot.


Edited by Maestro64 - 5/8/14 at 2:09pm
post #33 of 51

I think you will find that Alibaba is MUCH  bigger than Amazon and eBay combined

post #34 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmregan View Post

I think you will find that Alibaba is MUCH  bigger than Amazon and eBay combined

Cool. Can you show us your proof that Alibaba does more revenue than Amazon and eBay combined?


edit: It looks like Alibaba pales in comparison to either Amazon or eBay: http://techcrunch.com/2014/05/06/alibaba-files-for-massive-ipo-with-9-month-revenue-of-6-51b/
Edited by SolipsismX - 5/7/14 at 10:13am

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post #35 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post

end game is meaningless if you never get there.

There's nowhere to get to.

If you believe that then this would mean that there is no end. Thus end game is meaningless.  

 

this is why the poster used the word "winning" and not "won" .  Winng would represent a summary of all events which lead up to the present and a prediction on future trend. Won would represent represent the final outcome. You are right, anything can happen tomorrow, but is not what the word "winning" means. In terms of profits per quarter, which do have closure on a per quarter basis, it is clear who is "Winning" and who is simply presenting a picture of potential profit in the future by trying to destroy all competition solely on predatory pricing practices. The same company who has been misleading investors for 20 years.  Is there an end game? I think its clear investors are starting to question that also by dumping their stock.  

 

So "Winning" definitely is meaningful regardless if there is an end game or not.  Especially if you can predict who is going to be "Winning" in the future based on who has been "Winning" thus far and not hopes for an "End game" which as you correct state may not ever exist.  That is why investors play the market. They don't generally buy stock to try to take over the company. They buy stock because "Winning" is meaningful even if they see no "End game" or "End".  They decide when they want to get out and "Winning" is financially meaningful and has closure when they decide it has closure.


Edited by snova - 5/7/14 at 1:08pm
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post #36 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

The main difference being that Apple actually makes a profit... a huge, gigantic, monstrous profit.

Yeah, number 2 is meaningless when you're winning.

pretty sure this means,   revenue is less meaningful when compared to profit/loss. 

If we look at the US Internal Revenue Service and the Government as a single "company" if you will.  In 2012, the IRS generated $2.5 trillion of revenue. I ask you to look at the US balance sheet and tell me they are "Winning" when you compare it to the debt.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_tax_revenue_by_state

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post #37 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

While Amazon is far and away the world's largest online sales entity, Apple has been growing over the past three years and is now sitting in second place after unseating office supply company Staples.

I thought Alibaba was the world's largest online retailer? 1confused.gif

EDIT: See it was mentioned earlier.
Edited by Gatorguy - 5/7/14 at 4:28pm
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post #38 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post

If you believe that then this would mean that there is no end. Thus end game is meaningless.  

this is why the poster used the word "winning" and not "won" .  Winng would represent a summary of all events which lead up to the present and a prediction on future trend. Won would represent represent the final outcome. You are right, anything can happen tomorrow, but is not what the word "winning" means. In terms of profits per quarter, which do have closure on a per quarter basis, it is clear who is "Winning" and who is simply presenting a picture of potential profit in the future by trying to destroy all competition solely on predatory pricing practices. The same company who has been misleading investors for 20 years.  Is there an end game? I think its clear investors are starting to question that also by dumping their stock.  

So "Winning" definitely is meaningful regardless if there is an end game or not.  Especially if you can predict who is going to be "Winning" in the future based on who has been "Winning" thus far and not hopes for an "End game" which as you correct state may not ever exist.  That is why investors play the market. They don't generally buy stock to try to take over the company. They buy stock because "Winning" is meaningful even if they see no "End game" or "End".  They decide when they want to get out and "Winning" is financially meaningful and has closure when they decide it has closure.

How many companies were 'winning' 10 yrs ago, 20 yrs ago and are no longer around or a shadow of their former selves? What good did winning serve them? How many teams have a lost a game that they were winning with a last second play? Unless you win then winning is meaningless because your fortunes can change.
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post #39 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


How many companies were 'winning' 10 yrs ago, 20 yrs ago and are no longer around or a shadow of their former selves? What good did winning serve them? How many teams have a lost a game that they were winning with a last second play? Unless you win then winning is meaningless because your fortunes can change.

If I am an investor picking the one that is Winning and being right, is completely meaningful.    Meaningful all the way to the bank.   Knowing when to get out before it is obvious that it is "Losing" is just as meaningful.    Where a company is 10, 20, 100, 300, 500 years from now. I could care less. Thus meaningless.

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post #40 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post

If I am an investor picking the one that is Winning and being right, is completely meaningful.    Meaningful all the way to the bank.   Knowing when to get out before it is obvious that it is "Losing" is just as meaningful.    Where a company is 10, 20, 100, 300, 500 years from now. I could care less. Thus meaningless.

The problem with that is that there's no one definition of 'winning' or 'losing', both can happen at the same time. Anyone that purchased Apple stock at 700 sees it as losing, and anyone that bought it at under 600 sees it as winning.
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